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Humility, conflict and courtesy, and tigers and teachers and all

hilary

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Steve M has triggered off a torrent of interesting debate, and the page where it all started has got far too long. Added to which, we're drifting largely off the topic of divination. I had meant to suggest a move over here before, but thought I'd feel silly if the conversation were just about to come to a natural end anyway. It may well be, and I may yet feel silly, but what else is new?
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Here's the link to the original thread - for reference rather than posting!
 

martin

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Hmmm, nice place, I like the view here ...
Anonymous, I've read your post in the other thread. An entirely different viewpoint. Okay, thanks.
I'll wait with my comments. First see what others have to say.

Martin
 

Sparhawk

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Just to make a romantic reference to our departing friends, whom I hope come back with the sunrise...
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You add the music...

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Luis
 
D

dharma

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Luis, your response on the other page was dramatically appropriate in describing your confusion over what happened and the above picture fitting as well. I laughed heartily! (You're a Leo with a real flair for the theatre - Clarity's very own Weird "Al" Yakovic.) Humming the tune to a spagetti-western right now....
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LiSe, I loved the way you worded you sentiments on the other page -beautifully focused and centered- allows for and respects human fallibility without actually pointing faults out. You're a genius.
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Whether or not our friends decide to return lies completely in their hands. Having walked away myself, I know that only *they* can know with any certainty the value of their decision to go - only they can know how it affects their sense of integrity as people to stay at this time.

All in all, I enjoyed what they had to offer immensely and hope that I have the opportunity to share the same mental space with them again in the future.

Peace,
Dharma
 

heylise

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Frandoch,
Thank you for the beautiful link
LiSe
 

hilary

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Oh, this is just all far too nice and peaceful! Michael, the pictures were lovely and the words were good, and the music is abominable. Good with the speakers off, though.
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martin

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Sorry, tried to upload an image, but it doesn't work. Wrong format probably (no jpeg).
 

Sparhawk

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Well... people have a tendency of taking themselves too seriously. I rather take the drunken taoist approach...
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Did I ever mention that I love photography? I shoot away to almost anything that calls my eye. Here is a picture I shot back in 1992 on a visit to my native country of Uruguay. Place is a popular Sunday fleamarket in Montevideo. The picture, if you pay attention to the details, tells a little bit of the way I think, feel and try to act.
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If you need a hint please let me know...

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Luis
 

heylise

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How dou you people upload pictures! Tell me, please!
Luis, no eyesight but looking straight to the bird? Knitting socks without pens? Being decent and at the same time showing all underneath one is not supposed to see? Taking pictures where no pictures can be taken?
Hm, interesting.
LiSe
 

Sparhawk

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My soul is bared to you LiSe...
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Images are worth a thousand words, so they say...

To answer your question about uploading pix, please refer to this link right here in Clarity

Luis
 

joang

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I have been trying to remember a beautiful passage I once had pasted on my desk, but have since lost. It goes something like this:

Speak the truth, but speak it softly,
so that it falls gently on the ears...

I can't remember the rest, but it has something to do with its not being rejected by the listener. I think it came from an Eastern religion or philosophy, possibly Hindu or Sufti. Does anyone here know it? TIA...

Namaste,
Joan G.
 

malka

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LiSe, thank you for your words, and I agree.

Frandoch, what a beautiful website, thank you for the link.

Steve, (if you're reading) I was trying to make a point but after sleeping on it feel I went too far. I didn't "think" before I posted that email. I pointed out characteristics in a way that may have been uncomfortable and disrespectful for you, and I'm sorry. My point was that none of those characteristics, about you, about me, or any of us (and we all have our own) matters. I beleive we all have a responsibility to accept ourseles and each other "as is." If I offended, I kindly ask for your forgiveness.
 

martin

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This is not at all what I had expected!
Everybody sending out peaceful messages - did I bring my water pistols for nothing?
And my other much smarter weapons?
I tried (in vain) to upload a picture of myself waiting behind a chessboard ...

Anyway, love you all. And Malka and Lise, thank you for your insightful posts at the end of the other thread.

Martin

PS Does anybody know if Steve plays chess?
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frandoch

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Hi,

Peace and light for ever ????? I hope not - soooooooo boring. We need both ends of the stick, both sides of the coin. We need tension. That's what the Yi's about - about the tension between the Yang and the Yin. That's the source of energy for creating anything. But it also teaches us how to deal with that tension.

Think of a game, say chess. There are two 'opponents' who enjoy challenging each other's skills. Probing, searching for weaknesses in the other's game. But they're not fighting as people. When the game is over, they will say: 'I really enjoyed that. Fancy another one ????'

When I was raising my children, and my stepchildren, two lots, and when I was teaching, I learned the need to separate the person from the behaviour - to separate who they were from what they did.

If I had to admonish a child, I would never say: 'You are a very naughty girl.' I would always say something like:

'Hey, you're great, you are fantastic, and I love you to bits - but I don't like the way you're behaving, and I won't accept it.'

Even young children understand intuitively what you're on about. You're not belittling the person. You're not making them feel small. They respond to that approach.

So, let's have some matches - some jousts. Let's probe each other's ideas. But let's do it with love and humour. It can be great fun, and we'll learn in the process.

Peace for ever ??????? No thank you.

Just a thought.

Michael F.

PS The Seven Rules will be posted soon. Fancy a joust ??????????
 

davidl

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Luis

I immediately thought of the Malboro man. Da da, da da da daaaaaaa .
As for the photo of that lovely couple. Did she offer to give you a coffee grind reading? I can hear it know. " I see a dark tall stranger, in a dark suit, and wait......... he has something for me . Wait......... its a book....... a cheque book.... Oh!
Also that isnt a sock Lise its a hairpiece. I have heard that in Uruguay their quite popular with those rare Uruguayans that have none. The one she is wearing is the mohair version.
Luis, come on, tell us, was it those sporty green shorts that originally caught your eye or that little denim mini skirt.
 

martin

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Dear Michael,
You keep amazing me. I searched
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for weaknesses in your setup but found none. Very sound play!
I'm tempted to propose a draw, but no, that smells too much like peace forever ...

Young children and animals are not interested in sweet peace forever.
They are naughty, they fight, they have no problem with that.
Why not? I guess because they are in contact with the real peace, the eternal peace, that can never be disturbed.

Just my millions, as Chuko said.
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martin

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OK, some chess humor. If the game itself doesn't interest you, just skip the P-Q4 etcetera.

F. J. Marshall - Amos Burn, Paris 1900

[Britisher Amos Burn was a very conservative player and liked to settle down for a long session of close, defensive chess. He loved to smoke his pipe while he studied the board. As I made my second move, Burn began hunting through his pockets for his pipe and tobacco] 1 P-Q4 P-Q4 2 P-QB4 P-K3 3 N-QB3 N-KB3 4 B-N5 B-K2 [Not much thought needed on these moves, but Burn had his pipe out and was looking for a pipe cleaner] 5 P-K3 O-O 6 N-B3 P-QN3 7 B-Q3 B-N2 8 PXP PXP [He began filling up his pipe. I speeded up my moves] 9 BxN BxB 10 P-KR4 [Made him think on that one -- and he still didn't have the pipe going. The threat is BxP+ KxB N-N5+, known as the Pillsbury attack] 10...P-N3 11 P-R5 R-K1 12 PxP RPxP [Now he was looking for matches] 13 Q-B2 B-N2 14 BxP! PxB [He struck a match, appeared nervous. The match burned his fingers and went out] 15 QxP N-Q2 [Another match was on its way] 16 N-KN5 Q-B3 [He was puffing away and lighting up at last. No time left] 17 R-R8+ Resigns [For if 17...KxR 18 Q-R7 mate. Poor Burn. I think I swindled him out of that one. If he could only have got his pipe going, it might have been a different story. He took it good-naturedly and we shook hands. Then his pipe went out]

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dharma

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The Water Bearer

A water bearer in India had two large pots, each hung on the ends of a pole which he carried across his neck. One of the pots had a crack in it, while the other pot was perfect and always delivered a full portion of water. At the end of the long walk from the stream to the house, the cracked pot arrived only half full.

For a full two years this went on daily, with the bearer delivering only one and a half pots full of water to his house. Of course, the perfect pot was proud of its accomplishments, perfect for which it was made. But, the poor cracked pot was ashamed of its own imperfection, and miserable that it was able to accomplish only half of what it had been made to do.

After 2 years of what it perceived to be a bitter failure, it spoke to the water bearer one day by the stream. "I am ashamed of myself, and I want to apologize to you. I have been able to deliver only half my load because this crack in my side causes water to leak out all the way back to your house. Because of my flaws, you have to do all of this work, and you don't get full value from your efforts."

The bearer said to the pot, "Did you notice that there were flowers only on your side of the path, but not on the other pot's side? That's because I have always known about your flaw, and I planted flower seeds on your side of the path. Every day as we walk back, you've watered them. For two years I have been able to pick these beautiful flowers to decorate the table. Without you being just the way you are, there would not be this beauty to grace the house."

Each of us has our own unique flaws. We're all cracked pots. But it's the cracks and flaws we each have that make our lives together so interesting and rewarding. You've just got to take each person for what they are, and look for the good in them.

So the next time someone calls you a crack-pot remember the tale of The Water Bearer.

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Dharma
 

frandoch

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Hi Martin,

Re the chess game - leave out the moves - almost pornographic.
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Michael F.
 

davidl

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This is a story I read in Joseph Campbells auto boigraphy. You may have heard it before but the tiger analogy reminded me of it.

One day a small tiger cub got lost. It wandered in the forest till it was tired and nearly starving. Just as it was about to expire, it came across a group of goats chewing grass and flowers on a small rocky outcrop. The tiger cub wandered closer to the goats and began to chew on some grass. This revived him, and that day and for many after he continued to live with the goats. Soon he was part of their flock, happily chewing grass and flowers. He even learned to make goat noises. It wasn't long before he really thought and acted totally like a goat.
One day as the flock was peacefully grazing, a large male tiger spied them, he was looking for a nice piece of goat for his tea. He then saw the little tiger,chewing and braying like a goat and decided to take action. First he swooped down upon one of the goats breaking its neck and killing it instantly. he then jumped on the frightened tiger cub grabbing him firmly in his jaws and with the carcass of the goat dragged them to his cave. The little tiger was terrified making sad little goat noises as he cowered in the corner of the cave as the large male proceeded to rip apart the goat.
The large male then ripped a large piece of flesh from the goat and grabbing the little cub quickly rammed the whole piece down his throat. The cub was horrified and gagged on the meat, spewing it up, but something happened, a little bit of the blood had trickled down his throat, just enough to bring up an old memory. As the days went by the cub ate more meat and within a week he had come to his senses enough to realise that he was not a goat he was really a tiger. The old tiger released him knowing that his work was done.

I believe the moral of the story is something like. We all choke on the truth initially, but if even a little gets in our systems its enough to sometimes bring us to our senses.
This story hit the spot for me when I read it, as I had at the time been choking on some of my own truth. Hope you liked it.
 

Sparhawk

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Davidl:

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

As for the photo of that lovely couple. Did she offer to give you a coffee grind reading? I can hear it know. " I see a dark tall stranger, in a dark suit, and wait......... he has something for me . Wait......... its a book....... a cheque book.... Oh!
Also that isnt a sock Lise its a hairpiece. I have heard that in Uruguay their quite popular with those rare Uruguayans that have none. The one she is wearing is the mohair version.
Luis, come on, tell us, was it those sporty green shorts that originally caught your eye or that little denim mini skirt.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope,the lady wasn't a reader. Besides, she almost quicked my ass for taking the picture. So, I guess she wasn't after big money. As for the green shorts and denim mini skirt...hmmm, geeze Davidl! What an imagination!! Now I can't get the thought out of my mind!!
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No, sex didn't crossed my mind at the time of taking the picture (must have been in the 5% asexual temporal window of my day)

Actually, LiSe was pretty much right on the mark. And at the first try, I must add. Sometimes, one takes pictures whose composition subconsciously calls you and you have no clue why. Then years later you look at them and say: Wow, what a mirror!!

To Dharma: I really enjoyed the cracked pot metaphor. Thanks!

Cheers,

Luis
 

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