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I-Ching for fortune-telling: a progress report

bostonian

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A little while ago, we had a discussion on this forum initiated by me about the value of the I Ching for fortune telling (as opposed to counseling and advice on how to act). People suggested that I keep notes on what I think a reading is telling me and compare those with the actual results. I have done that, and while the experiment is still far from complete, I’d like to give a brief interim report.

First of all, the majority of my fortune telling questions didn’t have a natural deadline; so the jury is still out on those.

But here are two examples which did have natural deadlines, both of them regarding sickness and recovery.

A young person – a niece of a friend -- was hospitalized with swine flu. The medical staff told the parents to prepare themselves for the worst. Relatives came from across the country. The hospital had induced a coma and inserted a breathing tube. I asked the I Ching how this will all turn out, and I got 53. Gradual Progress. The next day, she was taken out of the coma, and they said she was over the worst, but the recuperation could easily take many months.

In a second example, a cat had such a serious medical condition that the vet suggested putting him down. The owner opted to try to save it. The main symptoms were bad sores in the mouth, which prevented the cat from eating or drinking. I threw the I Ching on this, and got 21:2 Biting Through, which I interpreted to mean that his mouth problems will eventually clear up. After two weeks of therapy (mostly providing hydration and nutrition intravenously), the cat recovered. And when it got home it ate with such gusto that its nose literally disappeared into the food (which is what line 2 states).

By the way, I got some eerily relevant responses to some other consultations that I’d like to report even though they don’t fit in exactly with the subject of this post.

Regarding the cat who recovered. The cat was used to going outside, and when he got home from the hospital, his owner was afraid to let him out because of his narrow escape. But the cat was very unhappy having to stay in and constantly tried to sneak out whenever the door was opened. So I threw the coins asking for advice on whether the cat should be allowed to go out. I got 24 Return. The significant passage as far as I’m concerned is:

Going out and coming in without error.
Friends come without blame.
To and fro goes the way.
On the seventh day comes return.
It furthers one to have somewhere to go.

The owner now lets the cat out with no problems – so far at least.

In another case, I wondered if someone I know with a new disability should give up driving because it might be dangerous. I asked the I Ching and I got 22 Grace. But for me, the significant part was the first changing line (at the beginning): "He lends grace to his toes, leaves the carriage, and walks."
 
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Trojina

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Brilliant...loved the part where the cat literally had its nose stuck in the food
 
H

hmesker

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An editor of a Dutch journal for parapsychological research has asked me to write an article about the Yijing for their next issue, which has 'predictions' as theme. I would like to read more of similar examples that B. gives, and I would like to use them for my article, if that is no problem.
 

Sparhawk

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Very interesting story, thanks for sharing.

Harmen, also remember Diana Farrington Hook for some old case studies.
 
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hmesker

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Luis, I can't find prediction examples in the two books that I have of her, The I Ching and Its Associations and The I Ching and You. Or am I missing something?
 

Sparhawk

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Luis, I can't find prediction examples in the two books that I have of her, The I Ching and Its Associations and The I Ching and You. Or am I missing something?

I could be wrong--it's been years since I read those books--but there is one more book to look at and I will as soon as I get back home from work: The I Ching and Mankind, Diana Ffarington Hook, 1975, Routledge and Kegan. 071008059X

If I remember correctly, I think there are a few case studies she wrote about.

Will advise later,
 
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hmesker

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Soooo...you are surfing the internet for personal matters while you are at work....I wonder what your boss will say about that...

Oh, I forgot. You ARE the boss.
doh.gif
 
J

jesed

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Hi Bostonian

I did the same for 7 years (more than 200 cases). In my case, every "predictive" question was phrased with time scope and clear circumstances, in order to easily judgment about right/wrong.

My results was interesting... they show less about Yijing and more about my learning curve ;)

The % of rights against wrongs changed according with the method used to interpretation, and increased with time/practice.

From that, I got the conclusion:
a) najia method is more accurate for merly predictive questions (yes/no questions, will X happen..etc)
b) no basic/mayor contradiction between najia conclusion and text-based conclusion, but diferent level of details (more accurate for prediction with najia; more insightful for counseling with text)
c) andree's method is more accurate for calendar calculation.

The last year of this experiment, the % of "rights" was around 92% , with another 5% in doubt (I mean, you can understand it as right, but not as evident fact), and 3% of wrongs.

One of the "wrongs", Luis may remember it, was the name of the Pope elected after JPII. The answers clearly pointed to Ratzinger, but my interpretation say another one. In that case again, the case shows more about me than the Yi: it was my antagonism against Ratzinger what lead me astray in the interpretation.

Best
 
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Sparhawk

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Luis, I can't find prediction examples in the two books that I have of her, The I Ching and Its Associations and The I Ching and You. Or am I missing something?
Hi Harmen, Nope, nothing in "I Ching and Mankind," but, not sure if this is what you are looking for but go back to your copy of "The I Ching and its Associations". Starting on page 70, there are 25 case studies of readings and outcomes. Short ones and to the point but interesting, nevertheless.
 
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hmesker

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Hi Luis, the cases that she gives are not 'prediction' related, they are more insight and what-to-do questions. I need plain fortune telling examples, with the actual outcome.
 

bostonian

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Hi Jesed

Thanks for the inspiring post. If your questions are in electronic form (so easy to copy and paste), would you be willing to post some of them online along with the prediction and whether it was right?
 

Sparhawk

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Hi Luis, the cases that she gives are not 'prediction' related, they are more insight and what-to-do questions. I need plain fortune telling examples, with the actual outcome.

Ah, got it. Trying to remember where I've seen those. Other than some predictions by Ricardo Andrée in Chile, which were publicized in the press years ago, I mean. Things to do with Pinochet and some earthquakes. He spooked a country with the accuracy of those and started a mix of Yi School/Christian religion. Quite an interesting combination, and quite unique.

But I think there is something in the books I have also, I just can't remember where...
 
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J

jesed

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Hi Jesed

Thanks for the inspiring post. If your questions are in electronic form (so easy to copy and paste), would you be willing to post some of them online along with the prediction and whether it was right?

I used to made a lot of predictive readings here in clarity, but i can't find them (seems they are too old)

I remember one about "if and when" someone would recieve a legal notification; I was right even in the day. This was really interesting, because was an practical test in the discussion between Chris Lofting and me about Yijing's usefulness on predictive use of the Yijing. Chris said that I couldn't give an exact date with the Yijing, but I did.

Another one, that caused some discussion in the forum, was about hex 1 unchanging for prediction about one married man. I predicted conflicts and further divorce -when all the others readers predicted good fortune- 3 or 4 months later, he said they divorced

Another conflictive prediction I recall was about hex 23 unchanging for health of the mother's consultant. My prediction -seize the time you have left to help her pass away in peace- arose a lot of angry comments against me; some even said i was into black magic. That was a really sensible case, beacuse the consultant was clinical depressed and the deep issue was he thought he wasn't a good son to his mother. After some days, he said his mother did passed away, but the time they spend together help him to be in peace, because he did everything he could do to help her in her final days.

Now... some other readings with predictive issues
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?p=85774#post85774
see post number 36 in this thread, and constrat it whit the long term consecuence, after 10 months

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?p=82180#post82180
post number 2 in this thread; confirmed latter as accurate by Viviank

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?p=72052
Update of previous accurate reading

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=4097
Post 31 (page 4)
In fact, federer didn't won in 2007 nor in 2008 but in 2009 (third year)

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?p=69656#post69656
on health

best
 
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Sparhawk

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Cool list and great snooping of the archives... :)
 
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jesed

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Some other old threads

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3196&highlight=wen+wang
On lebanon situation, 2006

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3443&highlight=mathematical
This was really interesting. Willowfox "predicted" the collapse of North Korea Government in the near future (2006) and even that there won't be any other nuclear test. I predicted the Government of NK won't collapse; the crisis will reinforce the Government

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3065&highlight=mathematical
About future evolution of one relationship

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3050&highlight=mathematical
This is the one about 23 and health issues

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=469&highlight=mathematical
On future evolution when taking antidrepresant

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=385&highlight=mathematical
On Saddam's trial

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=578&highlight=mathematical
On request for impeachment against Bush

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=510
On feng shui evaluation.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=527&highlight=mathematical&page=2
on earthquakes
 
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P

peterg

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Hi Bostonian

I did the same for 7 years (more than 200 cases). In my case, every "predictive" question was phrased with time scope and clear circumstances, in order to easily judgment about right/wrong.

My results was interesting... they show less about Yijing and more about my learning curve ;)

The % of rights against wrongs changed according with the method used to interpretation, and increased with time/practice.

From that, I got the conclusion:
a) najia method is more accurate for merly predictive questions (yes/no questions, will X happen..etc)
b) no basic/mayor contradiction between najia conclusion and text-based conclusion, but diferent level of details (more accurate for prediction with najia; more insightful for counseling with text)
c) andree's method is more accurate for calendar calculation.

The last year of this experiment, the % of "rights" was around 92% , with another 5% in doubt (I mean, you can understand it as right, but not as evident fact), and 3% of wrongs.

One of the "wrongs", Luis may remember it, was the name of the Pope elected after JPII. The answers clearly pointed to Ratzinger, but my interpretation say another one. In that case again, the case shows more about me than the Yi: it was my antagonism against Ratzinger what lead me astray in the interpretation.

Best
There is a saying about papal elections : ' he who goes in a pope comes out a cardinal.' Ratzinger, a clear frontrunner, proved an exception to the rule.

Anyone familiar with the prophetic vision of Malachy (12th century) regarding 111 future popes, could have predicted the name he chose, Benedict 16th.This pope, the last in the series, was given in the vision the latin title '' de gloria olivae'', the glory of the olives. Ratzinger is a Benedictine, and the benedictines are also known as the olivetans.I assumed he would choose JP3.

Incidentally, JP11 was given the title ''de labore solis'', 'concerning the labour of the sun' which didnt mean a whole lot, until the election of a polish pope & soon afterw. the birth of solidarity trade union.

I have a hunch there will be a major development in theology during the papacy of Ratz. a theologian.

Most yijingers have had many predictive casts with spot on accuracy, as well as casts which show clear trends over time which latter is typical of models of change, such as climate models.
Couple years ago I cast 25.5 - 21. A month later I had a visit from the police.Someone had made a complaint.I argued my side strongly & they withdrew.I had a hunch the whole thing would blow over of its own accord & there was no need for defensive action & thats the way it turned out.
 
J

jesed

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Hi Peter

Ratzinger is not a benedictine.

The chosen name of Benedict is not because of Saint Benedict, but because of Benedict XV.

Benedict XV was one of the Popes on the antimodernist campaign in the Catholic Church.

Best wishes
 
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peterg

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Hi Peter

Ratzinger is not a benedictine.

The chosen name of Benedict is not because of Saint Benedict, but because of Benedict XV.

Benedict XV was one of the Popes on the antimodernist campaign in the Catholic Church.

Best wishes


Hello Jesed
Thank you for keeping me on my toes.
Yes I was unsure of the benedictine connection & should have looked it up first.

In regard to the modernisation which took off in the 60's, look what it did to the church. The people voted with their feet & walked out.

Regards.
 
J

jesed

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In regard to the modernisation which took off in the 60's, look what it did to the church. The people voted with their feet & walked out.

The "antimodernist campaign" in the Cathoic Church is much more older than the Council Vatican I (not to mention the Council Vatican II, in the 1960's); it started in the XIX century as a vatican reaction against two movements: the creation of Italy (with the losses of vatican territory) and the "modernist" theology (mostly in France).

Best
 

heylise

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Searching in vain for papers for two weeks. Then asking Yi and finding them within 5 minutes - does that qualify as 'prediction'?

The answer was 49.1 changing to 31. I had no yellow oxhide in my house, but a big chair of polished yellow wood which looked a lot like leather. The papers were between the lattice of the back and the pillow.
 

bostonian

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Searching in vain for papers for two weeks. Then asking Yi and finding them within 5 minutes - does that qualify as 'prediction'?

The answer was 49.1 changing to 31. I had no yellow oxhide in my house, but a big chair of polished yellow wood which looked a lot like leather. The papers were between the lattice of the back and the pillow.

haha Wrapped in the hide of a yellow cow. That's great!
 

44bob123

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Hi Jesed,
Another one, that caused some discussion in the forum, was about hex 1 unchanging for prediction about one married man. I predicted conflicts and further divorce -when all the others readers predicted good fortune- 3 or 4 months later, he said they divorced

Another conflictive prediction I recall was about hex 23 unchanging for health of the mother's consultant. My prediction -seize the time you have left to help her pass away in peace- arose a lot of angry comments against me; some even said i was into black magic. That was a really sensible case, beacuse the consultant was clinical depressed and the deep issue was he thought he wasn't a good son to his mother. After some days, he said his mother did passed away, but the time they spend together help him to be in peace, because he did everything he could do to help her in her final days.
.

Maybe you've got the only Yijing that actually works?
I wonder whether your predictions would stand up to scientific scrutiny or would they be regarded as anecdotal evidence?

And what about:
Searching in vain for papers for two weeks. Then asking Yi and finding them within 5 minutes - does that qualify as 'prediction'?
. The Yijing as a lost property office. Wonderful to hear.

Bob:rofl:
 
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Sparhawk

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Maybe you've got the only Yijing that actually works?
I wonder whether your predictions would stand up to scientific scrutiny or would they be regarded as anecdotal evidence?

Well, there's only one Yijing. If it works or not for a particular user, it is up to him/her. One think should be obvious though: if it didn't work for countless people over time, it wouldn't have lasted almost 3000 years.
 
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44bob123

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Sparhawk, you know what I meant.
The only copy of the Yijing book that worked, as opposed to all the others that failed to make accurate predictions in the cases quoted. Perhaps the other books were bought without batteries as they're not included.

Bob:bows:
 

Sparhawk

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Ah, got you. Tks for clarifying. The battery analogy brings an interesting angle though: Who gets the battery, the Yijing or the reader?
 
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jesed

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Bob

You claim to have studied the Yijing for several years. How can't you know -then- a) diferent readers usually arrive to diferent conclusions; b) there are many diferent schools to make a reading.

For the case of hex 1 unchanging: I was the only one in that case using the najia system. That explain why I arrive to a diferent conclusion than others.

You can muck everything you want. That shows more about yourself than anything else ;)

Best
 

elvis

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Bob

You claim to have studied the Yijing for several years. How can't you know -then- a) diferent readers usually arrive to diferent conclusions; b) there are many diferent schools to make a reading.

That was until we were able to identify the I Ching as a language and so able to describe itself by reference to itself. These ties are hard-coded, there is no room for general mis-interpretations, only for particular forms based on subjective consciousness. The FAILURE of past schools, the development of many schools, covers the failure in identifying the language nature of the I Ching and so getting the I Ching to get closer and closer to identifying the class of an instance and so focus attention in a more precise manner.

A problem with primitive, symmetric, thinking is that it confuses instances with classes. Only with a competitive, demanding, context does the demands to make distinctions introduce us to the precision of asymmetric thinking and so emerging consciousness grounded in personal responsibilities etc.

Thus the farther we go back with ancient scripts etc so the more symmetric the thinking and the more confusion of instance/class. - all combined with a lack in precision and so missing the language nature of the I Ching where we can get it to describe itself at the class level. The hard-coding involved in the hexagram creation process means these details are akin to 'law', they are objective and CERTAIN - just as 1 + 1 = 2.

The level of instances is always SUBJECTIVE and so there is no 'school' capability as such.
 

44bob123

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Hi Jesed,

For the case of hex 1 unchanging: I was the only one in that case using the najia system. That explain why I arrive to a diferent conclusion than others.

Are you saying that I will get a "wrong" answer from the Yijing if I don't use the right "system"? I find that somewhat puzzling.

diferent readers usually arrive to diferent conclusions;

The point I was making was why were your predictions correct and the others not. If all of you were aiming for a definitive answer and only you had the correct one, that would suggest that you were simply lucky amongst some random results?

I personally don't consider using the Yijing to make future predictions. It seems too much like the fabled and misunderstood Nostrodamus.

Bob:bows:
 

fkegan

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Hi Folks,

There is a property noted by many investigators that if you get your lighting wrong, every window acts more as a mirror. At that point what you so earnestly examine turns out to say nothing about anything except your own reflection.

That is one reason why meditation is so important in ancient analysis. It is vital to take some time learning about one's own imperfections in perception rather than just projecting out upon some supposed point of interest.

That is one large step lower in the scale of things than the blind men examining various parts of a large elephant and arguing with each other assuming their perceptions were the totality of the beast.

Merry Christmas.

Frank
 

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