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IC nearsightedness

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sooo

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Does anyone else think that focusing almost exclusively on the Yijing for perspective creates tunnel thinking?

Having just read through the related 22 link (again), and especially the "nearsightedness" aspect, has ironically reenforced my perception that relying (obsessing?) on the Yijing for defining physiological reality is limiting and nearsighted. There appears too little integration, in some cases to the degree of outright prejudice toward other cultural sources of understanding this phenomenon, commonly referred to as reality, including areas of quantum theories (typically frowned upon unless one's earned scholarly degrees in such specialties), as well as other religions, or beliefs derived solely from personal experiences, philosophies, and diverse areas of psychology, such as Jungian concepts. How does being a Yijing scholar qualify one to be so dismissive of a Collective Consciousness or Unconsciousness, for example? Who among us even knows what dark matter or dark energy is, and who can say with any certainty, this is not the essence of the Dao? There is so much we don't yet know, who can make such claims?

I realize this is a site dedicated to Yijing, however such scorn toward other sources of practical wisdom and philosophic views have caused me to lose respect of those, so entirely focused on the Yijing and related ancient Chinese works.

I recently referred to a passage in the book of Revelations, presented only as a correlation to something written in the Yi, intended as metaphor, only to be told, with no small degree of cynicism, "a book best forgotten." How nearsighted and arrogant is that, I thought. And sure, anyone can find human atrocities in the name of some of those beliefs, but no lesser atrocities than those committed by ancient and modern Chinese cultures, who have revered the Yijing as the classic and model of right thinking. My response to him was, "That's what I'd expect a Christian to say about the Yijng."

Yesterday I deleted all Yijing related materials from my computer (including my own), in order to wipe my mental slate clean of my own limited narrow thinking, resulting from too much reliance upon it, or upon any single source which defines my reality. I wish to embrace a wider field in place of this (yet another) narrow path, which I've again found myself conforming to. I'll not eliminate it from my thinking, nor from participating on this forum, but I'll be giving equal time to other personally valuable sources and related interests, as well. I'll try to be discreet on this forum with comments that go outside the subject of the IC, so as not to offend.

PS: The other day, I presented the question to the Yi, why life? A: 22, no lines. I could find explanations from a great variety of sources: spiritual, scientific and philosophical, however none more clear than LiSe and Bamboo's posts on the 22 thread, which Dora linked to, faeries and all.
 
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pocossin

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I think you are overreacting to the thoughtless comment of one person. I enjoy hearing your unique perspective and hope it will not be unduly restrained.
 

rodaki

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Does anyone else think that focusing almost exclusively on the Yijing for perspective creates tunnel thinking?

. . . my perception that relying (obsessing?) on the Yijing for defining physiological reality is limiting and nearsighted.


thanks for bringing this issue up to acknowledge ..
the older members know that my experience with the IChing is rather limited in comparison to others' here but I have felt at times and dwelled on the limitations I have come across in trying to see the world thru Yi eyes . .

In a way, I find it more than reasonable that this should happen with an oracle since I think that the creation an anchoring focus point is a large part of oracles' function. Most people find their way to oracles in times of great personal upheaval when we need something to offer us a condensed image of what we are dealing with -iow, a device that will narrow down the causes of anxiety to a simple yet elegant explanation or, even, advice or solution . . For some this experience has become a bigger part of our lives and from what I know, some of us use it as a way to meditate, or to pray or to give our desire to explore ideas and study a great and wealthy field of research. All the above involves some degree of focused energy, attention or interest which will inevitably include nearsightedness . . I sort of find it similar to joining a gym club specializing to a particular kind of exercise. As rich and all encompassing that may be, it still is a specialized club, a niche.

I hope none of this sounds derogatory cause I seriously don't mean it as such. I have a lot of respect for all these people who have devotedly delved and then shared their knowledge and the fruits of their labor . . it's just that sometimes, this very same devotion and devotedness they have employed makes it easier for me to find my way thru their works rather than thru their personal ideas of what my approach should be. It's the same with art for me, works of art I find a lot more open and welcoming to my own, personal readings than their creators . .

Having said that, I have often felt deeply frustrated in my efforts to 'read' everything as from a Yi perspective . . In fact, I don't believe that Yi was made with that in mind, just like any great narrative was not created in order to reproduce the world as it actually, objectively, really is. I find it a great way of calming my head, of entering my own sacred space of personal myth, even of creating art and of getting rid of unwanted, excess anxiety but taken too far I've found it led me straight into reproducing the problems for which I turned to it in the first place. Yi, like many other things in my life, has been an amazing 'portal', a passage, but never the destination and as such, I'm really grateful and happy that it has been one of many and not my sole means of dreaming, flying, comprehending the world I live in :) . .


so, thanks again for opening the stage for this set of ideas to get out and get their air for a while . . Shaking them up a bit, turning them upside down, dusting off their layers of safe reassurance can be most reviving for my good heart/mind health and joy! .. although, I wouldn't expect people who have devoted their life into creating a solid approach to do so in the same degree, neither would I necessarily think they should do so .. everyone's dao is unique and different and so long I can walk as I feel right on my own path I'm happy to see others are enjoying theirs too . .


:freak:

:mischief: :) :hug:
 
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Tohpol

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Does anyone else think that focusing almost exclusively on the Yijing for perspective creates tunnel thinking?

Yes. And I'd apply that to all purported spiritual tools and teachings. The richness and diversity is the key.
 
S

sooo

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I think you are overreacting to the thoughtless comment of one person. I enjoy hearing your unique perspective and hope it will not be unduly restrained.

You're welcome to your thoughts, but please don't project them onto to me. I expressed my thoughts as a whole. The one example I referred to is as much at liberty to express his thoughts and beliefs as anyone else, and I believe they are anything but thoughtless. I believe it has been well thought out for a long time, if not his whole life. That's fine, he's entitled to that, as I am to mine. I don't think either is overreacting.
 
S

sooo

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To be a free thinker is a very hard task.

That's an interesting comment, or rather it presents an interesting question. What starts out as a liberating concept or organization or explanation of life's dynamics, ultimately becomes a restrictive cage, wherein one becomes bound and limited to its precepts. I have found this to be true in all cases in my life, in every belief, be they spiritual, social or political, that I've fully engaged and invested in, including the cages of my own free thinking and making. To loosely use musical terms, what starts out as a nice groove, eventually becomes a narrow, deep rut. What once freed me, eventually bounds me. And in every case, I've reached a point where I need to break out, and look at it all again with fresh eyes and listen with fresh ears, discarding nothing but the empty shell of my own frozen habits. To be a free thinker even means freeing oneself from perceiving oneself as a free thinker, because that's yet another limiting classification.

I'm more interested in the connections than in separations, in similarities than differences, But, I must be careful that that too doesn't become just another precept to confine myself within.

So, yes, I agree with your comment.To be a free thinker is a very hard task.
 

beyond_the_veil

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Yes. And I'd apply that to all purported spiritual tools and teachings. The richness and diversity is the key.

I can give a hardy amen to that. I can also personally attest to the "tunnel vision" syndrome that can afflict a person caught in one way of thinking as applied to myself and a recent incident with friend of mine of over 30 years. Sad.
 

chingching

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To be a free thinker even means freeing oneself from perceiving oneself as a free thinker, because that's yet another limiting classification.

not only is the classification limiting but if one thought freely, in the sense of completely open, a mind that filters nothing, one would be even more limited than having thought within some kind of system.

It is definitely a task and you need regular perception check ups. I guess alot of the time that is what one person's different point of view does for us, makes us check up on our own system of thought.
 

chingching

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then again that only my pov and is it possible to be outside your own pov... even using yi...
 

bamboo

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not only is the classification limiting but if one thought freely, in the sense of completely open, a mind that filters nothing, one would be even more limited than having thought within some kind of system.

this is so true:bows:

we each only have a (relatively) narrow viewpoint?, point of view?, point of focus? on the Reality we find ourselves in...as openminded and free as we would like to be, a particular psyche is only like having a certain seat in the stadium, when you use the psyche, you can only see so far.

sometimes it is beneficial to zero in on one particular focus purely. it often cooperates with you and becomes true for all intensive purposes

richness and diversity is fine and interesting I suppose, but it can be just as much a smokescreen, if not more of one...one could spend a lifetime and more exploring and appreciating richness and diversity and become like an encyclopedia, drwing no lines in the sand......., but without personal focus , intention and belief, well I think you miss most of the fun;)

in the bigger picture, it is all not-true and true at the same time. i like to wear my "perceptiions" like a loose garment. dont rely only on the psyche

for me, personally, the yi has always been a guide for the here-and-now, dispensing immediate advice ,it is not perceived (by me) as a philosophy of life..i have never taken it that way
 

RindaR

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I think Yi can be a box, and looked at another way can also point the way out of the box to other thoughts/points of view... Often it helps move me toward something outside it's box that is helpful.
 

RindaR

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Just happened to get a resulting hex of 30 to a query, and noticed this line in wikiwing:

Associates Hexagram 30 with Fuxi and his invention of nets and snares. Fuxi is also credited with discovering the trigrams: another kind of net, one made of interwoven concepts to catch and hold to the nature of reality.

Mebbe the more one knows of physics, metaphysics, and other aspects of reality the richer and wider will be one's understanding of Yi...?

Without the limits of wood and string, one can't make a guitar and unlimited music...
 

myway

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Rinda I just recently joined tho I have been familiar with reading others posting particularly if they remotely resembled my IC castings, trying to glean some insight to assist me in interrupting or deciphering is a better word, my specific inquiry.. Needless to say that inspite of my tireless research in the "forums" ( may not be the correct word used here) I was even more baffled than when I would just focus on one or two original text and leave at that.. So yes what u refer to in your comments concerning freedom to gain clarity thus erasing all extraneous or non essential info, rings true for me! I also would like to add that u should stick around longer n share ur insights with newbies like myself cus to a certain degree we r "tabla rasa" n can use guidance at least in the beginning of our quest... Peace & Love MyWay
 
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sooo

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The point is not to drift aimlessly in some undefinable smokescreen, but to recognize the commonality in all cultural stories, ideologies, methodologies and myths.

The Yijing is but a branch on the tree of life, not the entirety of the tree, as it is oft treated by some. It is a work, not the work. It is a system, not the system. It is a way, not the way.

"According to Joseph Campbell, there is only one story in the world, retold in many guises....[he] strips away the masks and shows the Hero to be a cultural code: the universal algorithm for transcending mundane consciousness and plugging into the main starry dynamo of the Mind."
Millennium Whole Earth Catalog - Howard L. Rheingold
 

chingching

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I've only been consulting the yijing for under a year (i have read about it before but never used it). I resisted using it when some friends of mine encouraged me, came to it later from curiosity and of course a need for support of some sort. Now, my friends used it a couple of times and they no longer consult yi at all. I on the other hand can't stop. Their understanding is completely superficial but they had no desire or need to look any further. I tend to not be able to walk away from something until I understand it. And therein lies the need and desire to constantly use muse and abuse the oracle. (I dont mean to abuse it though but sometimes I probably do).

I find trying to see the world from other's point of view antidotal seeing the world only through one framework, such as yijing. That being said looking at the world through the meanings of the hexagrams has been antidotal to my, now old, way of looking at the world. And because of its complexity it offers more than a 'think positive thoughts' mantra in order to change one's perspective.

But its like starring at the sun or playing a lot of tetris. Dont do that for long or at least take breaks.
 

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