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If I make a full and whole-hearted commitment..? 24.1>2

Lavalamp

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I believe Tom indicated the editing was due to "personal comments."
 
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Trojina

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Actually it wasn't a personal comment at all so it was wrongly edited by a moderator


I will type it out again for you when I can be bothered but there was nothing personal in it

Obviously there is no point at all continuing a conversation where somebody else decides what I say...
 

pocossin

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If you all wish to continue the Wilhelm debate, please start a thread in Moderation.
 

Trojina

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Tom you can't edit someones post just because it does not address the topic of the thread. That is really out of order. There was nothing offensive in LLs post that you needed to edit it to that degree. Neither should you have edited mine...because of use of the word 'you'. If you edit someones post it needs a good reason. I don't feel the use of the word 'you' was a good reason to delete most of my post. I already read LLs post and even if I don't agree with him he wrote nothing offensive so what do you think you are doing going around editing peoples posts. :confused:


Perhaps you need to consult with other moderators. If you found anything offensive in my post I don't think it was the use of the word 'you'

Plus you should have asked me to change the post myself before wading in there without my consent.


I do not see why you cannot contact the person before you intrude into their post and it is an intrusive act.
 

pocossin

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Tom you can't edit someones post just because it does not address the topic of the thread.

If you will start a thread in Moderation, I will respond when I get back from work, but not here.
 

Trojina

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Its okay I don't need you to respond. I'll seek clarity on it from Hilary at some point in the future when she has time to answer. There must be rules about what you edit out ... and it surely can't be that you can edit something out that isn't quite on topic !!...or something where the words used aren't quite to your liking or that you don't understand.

I feel you should only edit others posts without their consent or knowlege in extreme circumstances....and today you have pretty much edited out anything you feel like

Instead of editing LLs post you could have moved it to moderation or sent him a pm rather than wade in and take his words off him.

As you don't run the forum I don't need you to answer the question.....
 
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Lavalamp

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Well thanks for defending my honor, Trojan. ;)

I did send Hilary a note when I started reading asking here asking for input on basically anything, as I realize it's not my sandbox I'll just take Tom's stepping in as being that, the words ain't so precious, - we can always make more... :rofl:

LL
 

yiyione

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dear all,
I did not expect that a debate and another storm happening here.
But I really deeply appreciate your inputs and generosity which really makes me contemplate and examine myself how I can walk through my psychological storm.

to respond to Trojan's view on 24.1. based on Balkin's book, I currently tend to take that hex 24 as "a sincere return to righteous behavior always bring improvement"and 24.6 "one has missed one's chance to return, and disaster occurs"(Balkin).
So, 24.1 may be a good timing that two people return to each other in this case.

but 50.4. when I saw it, I felt very unsettled immediately. it is not a line that would make me or everyone feel good! Immediately I saw that yi answers directly to my question sharply and suggest he may not be sincere. but I do not really know how to take the warning, particularly with two positive readings.

thanks for LL's and other's comment on 50.4 that I learn so much from your very different perspectives!
I went to see several different translation.
karcher's commentary of 50.4

"Is this being trustworthy? Disaster. Whatever you are contemplating don't do it. You will betray a trust and soil your higher principles. The way is closed.
Direction: Renovate a corrupt situation. If you let yourself be led, you can realise hidden potential. The situation is already changing."

If according to this, one way to read 50.4 , yi is talking to me. you are asking "is this being trustworthy?" well, you should stop asking this question because "you will betray a trust and soil your higher principles." What is higher principles? To put in hex 50, a ritual event, devotion to higher principle, universe, not just about a small self's ego and mind, not just your self defence system which serves your little mind, big ego, a cooking for sacred food, a cooking is a transformation......
The approach to take is to "Renovate a corrupt situation"(hex18). In my context, I need to see the corrupt situation as past is past, and think about what is now, what exactly is happening now, receiving NOW (hex2), and what kind of attitude to take will make win-win, and even benefit more than two people, I mean not the third or fourth person again!, but to the universe or society or something.
If I let myself be led by the flow(hex2), the current turning point(hex24), I can realise hidden potential.
It said, "The situation is already changing" that is very interesting. Because I have been wondering is the situation really changing and different from the past situation.

This is currently what I can understand, but of course, my psychological setback and some weakness are still there. so it maybe also what 50.4 referred that there is an important task, but I don't feel quite up to. this is misfortune. I need to make a full devotion to direct my energy following the higher principle as making a ritual, cooking sacred food.

Is it wishful thinking?

thanks for your sharing and helps.
 
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Yiyione, thank you for sharing your thoughts and getting back. You are really taking from our information and your experience and creating something that you see on your own. It's great to see this moment and I wish you luck for now and for in the future.
 

ginnie

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but I still have a question how can I take 50.4 that is negative with 24.1 and 42.5 that are both postive? is 50.4 a warning about the external enviornment or really just about my personal issues?

I know I'm coming in on this thread awfully late but I thought I'd add that we are all just human beings, with flaws and faults. Should the two of you get together as life partners, then these built-in weak spots will make their appearance. These weak spots will be the kinds of things you can work on together, to make your relationship work better. Unfortunately, there is no perfect relationship that requires no work. Long distance relationships can seem ideal, but living in the same city or in the same place usually dispels that illusion!Unfortunately, the ideal man and the ideal woman do not exist. That's how I read that line. As someone who has been married for 34 years, I can tell you that the ideal man and the ideal woman do not exist, but all you really need to continue together is a commitment to work on the difficulties as they arise.
:)
 
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Trojina

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dear all,
I did not expect that a debate and another storm happening here.
But I really deeply appreciate your inputs and generosity which really makes me contemplate and examine myself how I can walk through my psychological storm.

to respond to Trojan's view on 24.1. based on Balkin's book, I currently tend to take that hex 24 as "a sincere return to righteous behavior always bring improvement"and 24.6 "one has missed one's chance to return, and disaster occurs"(Balkin).
So, 24.1 may be a good timing that two people return to each other in this case.

but 50.4. when I saw it, I felt very unsettled immediately. it is not a line that would make me or everyone feel good! Immediately I saw that yi answers directly to my question sharply and suggest he may not be sincere. but I do not really know how to take the warning, particularly with two positive readings.

thanks for LL's and other's comment on 50.4 that I learn so much from your very different perspectives!
I went to see several different translation.
karcher's commentary of 50.4

"Is this being trustworthy? Disaster. Whatever you are contemplating don't do it. You will betray a trust and soil your higher principles. The way is closed.
Direction: Renovate a corrupt situation. If you let yourself be led, you can realise hidden potential. The situation is already changing."

If according to this, one way to read 50.4 , yi is talking to me. you are asking "is this being trustworthy?" well, you should stop asking this question because "you will betray a trust and soil your higher principles." What is higher principles? To put in hex 50, a ritual event, devotion to higher principle, universe, not just about a small self's ego and mind, not just your self defence system which serves your little mind, big ego, a cooking for sacred food, a cooking is a transformation......
The approach to take is to "Renovate a corrupt situation"(hex18). In my context, I need to see the corrupt situation as past is past, and think about what is now, what exactly is happening now, receiving NOW (hex2), and what kind of attitude to take will make win-win, and even benefit more than two people, I mean not the third or fourth person again!, but to the universe or society or something.
If I let myself be led by the flow(hex2), the current turning point(hex24), I can realise hidden potential.
It said, "The situation is already changing" that is very interesting. Because I have been wondering is the situation really changing and different from the past situation.

This is currently what I can understand, but of course, my psychological setback and some weakness are still there. so it maybe also what 50.4 referred that there is an important task, but I don't feel quite up to. this is misfortune. I need to make a full devotion to direct my energy following the higher principle as making a ritual, cooking sacred food.

Is it wishful thinking?

thanks for your sharing and helps.

Actually how to apply 24.1 would depend on your perspective. In my experience.... I'd say 24.1 really is quite a short return...one hardly goes off ones path

So do you think you went off your path when you split up with him or do you think you go off your path when you consider getting back with him. That is crucial and only you know that.

50.4 most certainly is not a auspicious line for 'shall I commit here'. Others here have just spoken generally about commitment in relationships...but you are asking the I Ching...not about their views of relationships. 42.5 isn't 'whoopee' its all okay' its just saying your heart is good you will make the right choice whatever you decide. i think 24.1 is the one you need to think about. If he isn't right for you you will soon know it


ETA right now peoples posts are being edited by Pocossin at random so my words may not be here later.
 
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Lavalamp

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Trojan, the question asked was not _should_ I trust this man. She asked what the result would be, what she could expect, if she went much farther down than the road than mere trust: if she had a family, children with him, what could she expect?

And Ginnie only pointed out the nature of long term relationships is both parties have work to do, on "what is spoiled" 18, problems, the way they are used to living on their own, habits, As well as on 50.4 the fact we are interdependent, no one can do it alone, and we might get PO'ed at each other and dump our feeling sometimes, make the other feel bad, we might feel a lot of stress and this could make the relationship non-nourishing sometimes.

Some relationships are obviously easier than others, and the Yi can tell you this and the Stars and all the Yentas in the neighborhood maybe. But when you love someone, if you go into it with commitment and your eyes wide open, I don't think other people really have the right to judge anyone for it. For having the courage to commit to someone, warts and all, because they love them.

I'm just saying.

LL
 

Trojina

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For goodness sake I am talking about the reading not your view of relationships and wasn't talking to you anyway !
 

Trojina

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Trojan, the question asked was not _should_ I trust this man. She asked what the result would be, what she could expect, if she went much farther down than the road than mere trust: if she had a family, children with him, what could she expect?

And Ginnie only pointed out the nature of long term relationships is both parties have work to do, on "what is spoiled" 18, problems, the way they are used to living on their own, habits, As well as on 50.4 the fact we are interdependent, no one can do it alone, and we might get PO'ed at each other and dump our feeling sometimes, make the other feel bad, we might feel a lot of stress and this could make the relationship non-nourishing sometimes.

Some relationships are obviously easier than others, and the Yi can tell you this and the Stars and all the Yentas in the neighborhood maybe. But when you love someone, if you go into it with commitment and your eyes wide open, I don't think other people really have the right to judge anyone for it. For having the courage to commit to someone, warts and all, because they love them.

I'm just saying.

LL

Guess what, most adults already know that...they don't need to be told that here !! we are talking about the reading
 
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Lavalamp

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Looks like the post of yours I was responding to is gone anyway. Hmmm. Nevertheless, you weren't framing the 50.4 in the context of the actual question asked.

.
 

Trojina

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Looks like the post of yours I was responding to is gone anyway. Hmmm. Nevertheless, you weren't framing the 50.4 in the context of the actual question asked.

.

you certainly weren't...

and its not aproblem if you disagree with my or anyones view...it is a problem if you insist yours is the only view and start generalising about relationships in general which you did previously. I'll link to the moderation thread here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=14394
 
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Lavalamp

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I'm not insisting on my view, I _was_ I guess defending Ginnie's musings on marriage, which you had expressed a strong, somewhat acerbic opinion about (the posting is now gone, whether by you or Tom IDK.)
 

ginnie

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So, 24.1 may be a good timing that two people return to each other in this case.

It's important to understand that one is always returning to oneself, or to one's best self, not to any other. In other words, there was a deviation in your path and you're thinking of correcting it. As Trojan said above, if it's a mistake, you'll know it soon enough.

but 50.4. when I saw it, I felt very unsettled immediately.

You will let each other down, but Yi does not say how serious that will be. Are we speaking of someone not showing up for a scheduled appointment or is it a full-blown tragedy? One doesn't know and sometimes our hunger to know the future before it happens is the real problem -- or that is what is causing the problems.

We want to know that our path is smooth before we walk it. But there's something too abstract about taking that approach, because there is no perfectly smooth path.

Many people have commented that there is no 'they lived happily ever after' line in the I Ching. The prognostications are an admixture of positives and negatives. I must say, though, our path is smoothed and soothed by keeping a positive attitude and keeping up our courage. I think that is always what we are returning to, with 24.1, a positive, courageous attitude.
 

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