In love with a married woman...

[Dutchyogi]

I fell in love with a married woman while staying on a mediterranean island in May and June. How does she feel about me?

Hexagram 31 Influence/Wooing unchanged

So far, so good and in accordance with what I thought.


Where is the best place to stay during the period August through October to make sure we’ll be together as soon as possible?

Hexagram 33 Retreat unchanged

Ok, get out of there, because it’s not the right time. Sure, I get it. She is married. Don't push it.


Went back home. She initiated app contact. From home, I went to another island and she stopped app contact.

Why did she stop app contact?

Hexagram 56 the Wanderer changing into

Hexagram 33 Retreat

Ok, the reason is that I chose not to go back to her island, but to another island. That’s why she is chosing to retreat. Fair enough. What good am I to her on another island? What to do now during the period August-October? Do nothing or tell her how I feel and that there’s nowhere I would rather be than with her?

What will be her reaction if I tell her honestly how I feel?

Hexagram 53 Gradual Progress changing into

Hexagram 39 Obstruction

Ok, now I am confused! I know she likes me. I know it isn’t the right time. I know she stopped the app, because I went someplace else.

Some things I read about Hexagram 53 are:

Success comes when you pull your nature forward without pushing yourself into the world.

Ji’an shows the gradual development of how a woman follows a man to become his wife.

This hexagram can show a relationship with a need to allow for patience so that one or the other has time to catch up to the other’s feelings.

What you are attempting must be cultivated slowly and patiently.

This is a time to put all your energy and attention directly on the step you are currently on. Too frequently we focus on the final destination without focusing on all the fascinating destinations along the way

Line 6 is positive:

The wild goose gradually draws near the clouds heights = its feathers can be used for the sacred dance. Good fortune. Changes to (39) Obstruction. The situation allows you to reach your aims and you can even become a source of inspiration for others.

What do you think? Is a declaration of love too much, too soon or go for it?

 

[marybluesky]

Hello;

31uc: she's attracted to you, too.
33uc: either going to a "retreat" site, or retreating from the idea.
56.5>33, she thinks it was a joyful experience, but temporary; so she retreated.
53.6> 39 is a good line. It shows going beyond difficulties. I guess whether she accepts your love, or simply shows her disinterest, which relieves you.

 

[Dutchyogi]

Hello;

31uc: she's attracted to you, too.
33uc: either going to a "retreat" site, or retreating from the idea.
56.5>33, she thinks it was a joyful experience, but temporary; so she retreated.
53.6> 39 is a good line. It shows going beyond difficulties. I guess whether she accepts your love, or simply shows her disinterest, which relieves you.

Thank you very much for your reply. So you think I should go for it, but be prepared for any outcome?

 

[Dutchyogi]

Is there anybody with a different view?

 

[marybluesky]

Thank you very much for your reply. So you think I should go for it, but be prepared for any outcome?

I can't say for sure, as the result of your second question is retreat. Maybe it's better to wait now. Again, I'm not sure.

 

[Viru10]

I've seen 53.6 point to something coming to a close, indicating a situation is over. It doesn't have to mean that all the time- it's one of those weird lines where all the good fortune indicated doesn't seem to manifest in accordance to our expectations, it's something else, like a bigger picture kind of 'good fortune'. I think like Mary says even if it doesn't work out like you want it brings some kind of closure.

You could try reaching out and seeing how the line plays out. Ethically this is a gray area however so can't advise. You can assume if she's doing this in her current relationship she could do it in your relationship too. (if you were to hypothetically have one).

 

[rosada]

31uc. She was aware of the possible attraction but doesn't care to do anything more about it..
33. Back off, there is no place for this.
56.6 - 33. She thought of you as someone she met while on vacation, a no strings attached traveler, and she doesn't intend for the friendship to to go further.
53.6 -39. What if you tell her how you feel? No further progress possible here - she's married.

 

[Dutchyogi]

I've seen 53.6 point to something coming to a close, indicating a situation is over. It doesn't have to mean that all the time- it's one of those weird lines where all the good fortune indicated doesn't seem to manifest in accordance to our expectations, it's something else, like a bigger picture kind of 'good fortune'. I think like Mary says even if it doesn't work out like you want it brings some kind of closure.

You could try reaching out and seeing how the line plays out. Ethically this is a gray area however so can't advise. You can assume if she's doing this in her current relationship she could do it in your relationship too. (if you were to hypothetically have one).

Thank you very much for your reply. I find the different possible ways of interpreting the hexagram and lines is the biggest problem with I Ching. If I look on the internet for Hexagram 53, I find

This is a time to put all your energy and attention directly on the step you are currently on. Too frequently we focus on the final destination without focusing on all the fascinating destinations along the way.

But I also find

This is definitely a time to attend to courtship. Don’t allow shyness or ineptitude to halt an amorous engagement.

According to the first interpretation I should wait and according to the second interpretation I should go for it. The same applies in my opinion for 53.6>39. It all depends on how you look on it, I guess.

 

[Dutchyogi]

31uc. She was aware of the possible attraction but doesn't care to do anything more about it..
33. Back off, there is no place for this.
56.6 - 33. She thought of you as someone she met while on vacation, a no strings attached traveler, and she doesn't intend for the friendship to to go further.
53.6 -39. What if you tell her how you feel? No further progress possible here - she's married.

Thank you very much for your reply. I should have given some more context about the situation.
33uc was given for a question with a specific time period. This was August-October. I could relate to the message of this hexagram and that's one of the reasons I chose to leave. So, in my view 33uc does not mean to back off forever.
56.6-33 She was not on vacation. She lives on that island. I am a digital nomad. I could have stayed on the island and I can choose to go back anytime I want. She knows this. That's why I think 56.6-33 shows she stopped apping the moment I set foot on another island, because she feels disappointed I didn't come back. Maybe it's a sign for her that I'm not serious about her.
53.6 -39 I would find it strange that I Ching would show a primary hexgram with the name Gradual Progress, when there is no further progress possible.

I am aware that my opinion is subjective in this matter. That's why I posted the question here. Thanks again for your help. Maybe the extra context is helpful for you?

 

[rosada]

33uc. Unchanging hexagrams suggest the situation does not change thus when you got Retreat without a change line the interpretation is that you should back off, period. However, you did set a time frame for your question so perhaps it only applies to backing off for that time - but note this doesn't say anything will be different after three months.
56.6 You can't always be literal with interpretations. The Traveler suggests someone who is just passing through. Whether or not either of you were literally on vacation does not change the inference that she now sees you as someone who was just passing through and wanted to have a fling before Retreating. Or it may be it was she who wanted a fling, but she retreated when she recognized how disasterous that would turn out to be. The traveler is beheaded at line 6!
53.6 You say you find it strange that a hexagram called Gradual Progress could indicate no further progress is possible. The thing is, in interpreting the I Ching the line has precedence. Thus while "Gradual Progress" sounds like something that will progress, the line is in the 6th position indicating that the energies have run their course and thus no further Gradual Progress is possible. You may find it interesting to peruse the sixth line of other hexagrams. Note how hex 1. The Creative encourages persevering yet the sixth line warns that going too far leads to remorse or how hex 7. The Army is about war and battles but the sixth line is about how the energy for fighting has dissipated and it's now time to prepare for peace.

 

[Dutchyogi]

33uc. Unchanging hexagrams suggest the situation does not change thus when you got Retreat without a change line the interpretation is that you should back off, period. However, you did set a time frame for your question so perhaps it only applies to backing off for that time - but note this doesn't say anything will be different after three months.
56.6 You can't always be literal with interpretations. The Traveler suggests someone who is just passing through. Whether or not either of you were literally on vacation does not change the inference that she now sees you as someone who was just passing through and wanted to have a fling before Retreating. Or it may be it was she who wanted a fling, but she retreated when she recognized how disasterous that would turn out to be. The traveler is beheaded at line 6!
53.6 You say you find it strange that a hexagram called Gradual Progress could indicate no further progress is possible. The thing is, in interpreting the I Ching the line has precedence. Thus while "Gradual Progress" sounds like something that will progress, the line is in the 6th position indicating that the energies have run their course and thus no further Gradual Progress is possible. You may find it interesting to peruse the sixth line of other hexagrams. Note how hex 1. The Creative encourages persevering yet the sixth line warns that going too far leads to remorse or how hex 7. The Army is about war and battles but the sixth line is about how the energy for fighting has dissipated and it's now time to prepare for peace.

Thanks again for your reply. It could be that your right. It could also be that you are wrong. It’s often a matter of interpretation, isn’t it? Especially when there are lines involved. Your interpreation of 53.6 is that because the line is in the 6th position, it is indicating that the energies have run their course and thus no further progress is possible. On the site of James de Korne all interpretations of 53.6 are positive. Words like good fortune and auspicious are used in each interpretation on this site.

I have read that the first hexagram shows the present situation and through the lines, a second hexagram is formed which shows the future situation. Well, in this case it makes sense to me. I can see how a declaration of love, at this time, would lead from Hexagram 53 Gradual Progress to Temporary Obstacles which will take time and effort to overcome.

PS Just now I receive an app from her after 3 weeks. LOL! I am so happy I could restrain myself during this period. Let’s continue with Gradual Progress for now and see where it leads!

 

[Trojina]

But what about her husband ? Is she lying to him, doesn't care about lying to him, is splitting up with him ? You may be her play thing. Will look at readings later but don't forget someone may stand to get hurt here it's not all about being happy

 

[Trojina]

I fell in love with a married woman while staying on a mediterranean island in May and June. How does she feel about me?

Hexagram 31 Influence/Wooing unchanged

So far, so good and in accordance with what I thought.

31uc 'Influence' people impacting on one another, the push and pull of liason but it doesn't guarantee anything and unchanging not a lot may be going on.

See the 31uc thread for others experiences

Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 31

Thought I'd post 31 and 32 before the Roar of Xmas drowns everything out. I haven't even ever thought of 31 and 32 as a pair before, I don't know why. I seem to find thinking in terms of the pair helps when I get an unchanging answer....but right now I can't even see how they link. Lise...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

I posted that because chunks of commentaries are pretty narrow things and it looks like you have been feasting on them in the James de Korne collected material. How real people actually experience answers is another matter than what some author says about it.

Also read the actual words of the I Ching before reading commentaries it gives you a better place to see from.

Where is the best place to stay during the period August through October to make sure we’ll be together as soon as possible?

Hexagram 33 Retreat unchanged

Ok, get out of there, because it’s not the right time. Sure, I get it. She is married. Don't push it.

This is where it gets tricky. You want to manipulate the situation in your favour understandably but the whole situation is way bigger, with other priorities than what's in your favour so Yi could well be saying here to withdraw from this whole mindset that you can engineer how this goes. You came to that conclusion yourself.

Went back home. She initiated app contact. From home, I went to another island and she stopped app contact.

Why did she stop app contact?

Hexagram 56 the Wanderer changing into

Hexagram 33 Retreat

This may be quite a literal answer...you need to write the lines in otherwise we have to. It should be written as 56.5>33. If this is a literal answer she found opportunities where she was perhaps and so had no need for you.

Answers can also be way bigger than the question and this might be reassurance to you that while you are anxious you lost her, you as the stranger in 56.5 have 'bagged' her. However that interpretation is a bit of a jump but if it were my reading I would see it as a possibility. That is if I am unhappy about a connection and want to know why/what happened often Yi will just tell me it's all okay not what went wrong.

But if you find yourself asking why she stopped contact frequently you know you are wasting your time. If this was 'love' she'd be more consistent in her communication. If you are guessing it means there is no bond of trust between you, no real communication.

What will be her reaction if I tell her honestly how I feel?

Hexagram 53 Gradual Progress changing into

Hexagram 39 Obstruction

You write it as 53.6>39 and here I will use the actual words of the I Ching, the ones you need to focus on to get a feel for what they mean to you. Hilary's translation from wikiwing


'Wild geese gradually advance to the high plateau.
Their feathers can be used to perform the sacred dances.'

So 53 is the slow ceremonial progress towards marriage/fulfilment of whatever goal you ask about. Here in the 6th line the beautiful end has come. If you read through the lines you can see the stages of courtship. So this final line is to do with transcendence of the whole issue, moving on higher and away. I suppose it could mean the pair of you transcend difficulties and move on to an entirely different life together. It could also mean you both leave the experience behind but it's left you both with something than enriched you or that you can use further in your life or something you look back on as a whole finished experience like leaving school is.


To come back to earth for a moment all that sounds impossibly lofty to me for a woman that's playing her husband, bouncing around islands and contacting you randomly when she feels like it. It doesn't sound great but I will make the effort to stick loosely to the readings as maybe she is not as she sounds at all.


BTW

Success comes when you pull your nature forward without pushing yourself into the world.

Ji’an shows the gradual development of how a woman follows a man to become his wife.

This hexagram can show a relationship with a need to allow for patience so that one or the other has time to catch up to the other’s feelings.

What you are attempting must be cultivated slowly and patiently.

This is a time to put all your energy and attention directly on the step you are currently on. Too frequently we focus on the final destination without focusing on all the fascinating destinations along the way

None of the above is the I Ching it is commentary, people's ideas about the I Ching and while it is interesting to read you cannot rely on these words, it can be misleading, better to go to a good translation, that is a translation of what Yi actually says, than collect a bunch of stuff off de Korne.

In your shoes FWIW I think you should tell her how you feel. 53.6, you're taking a final step if you tell her so it will either end of go to another level. If you tell her how you feel the relationship will go to an entirely different level which might mean several different things. When I say 'different level' I mean really different, this is a line of death, the feathers are left behind, the geese go high, they transcend. For me this line usually shows an end that I can look back as a finished experience, someone I used to be, a place I used to go, a phase of my life that left and never came back because I grew up or left home or left a partner or gained qualifications which made me fit for a different job. It could also possibly be as I said moving on into a whole new kind of relationship with her but at least if you tell her how you feel you will know for sure she cannot misread your signs and you won't end up as an older man thinking 'what if'. There's no 'what if' with 53.6, you know the 'if' because you did it, you completed the phase. It's a good line because in completing the phase you really can move on up to the next level. If she dumps you when you tell her you can move to the next level. if she says she loves you back and wants to leave her husband you also move to the next level.


But what you don't want is to be strung along or take an ongoing part in the deception of another person and that's a big issue here. So take the leap be honest with her, move forward. If she does the whole infrequent contact thing while staying with her husband then move on.

 

[Dutchyogi]

But what about her husband ? Is she lying to him, doesn't care about lying to him, is splitting up with him ? You may be her play thing. Will look at readings later but don't forget someone may stand to get hurt here it's not all about being happy

Well, it seems to me she is not too happy in the marriage, because otherwise you would not behave like this towards another man. I know someone may stand to get hurt and believe me....the last thing I wanted is to fall in love with a married woman. However, there are some things in life which you can't control and falling in love is one of them, in my opinion.

 

[Dutchyogi]

31uc 'Influence' people impacting on one another, the push and pull of liason but it doesn't guarantee anything and unchanging not a lot may be going on.

See the 31uc thread for others experiences

Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 31

Thought I'd post 31 and 32 before the Roar of Xmas drowns everything out. I haven't even ever thought of 31 and 32 as a pair before, I don't know why. I seem to find thinking in terms of the pair helps when I get an unchanging answer....but right now I can't even see how they link. Lise...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

I posted that because chunks of commentaries are pretty narrow things and it looks like you have been feasting on them in the James de Korne collected material. How real people actually experience answers is another matter than what some author says about it.

Also read the actual words of the I Ching before reading commentaries it gives you a better place to see from.


This is where it gets tricky. You want to manipulate the situation in your favour understandably but the whole situation is way bigger, with other priorities than what's in your favour so Yi could well be saying here to withdraw from this whole mindset that you can engineer how this goes. You came to that conclusion yourself.


This may be quite a literal answer...you need to write the lines in otherwise we have to. It should be written as 56.5>33. If this is a literal answer she found opportunities where she was perhaps and so had no need for you.

Answers can also be way bigger than the question and this might be reassurance to you that while you are anxious you lost her, you as the stranger in 56.5 have 'bagged' her. However that interpretation is a bit of a jump but if it were my reading I would see it as a possibility. That is if I am unhappy about a connection and want to know why/what happened often Yi will just tell me it's all okay not what went wrong.

But if you find yourself asking why she stopped contact frequently you know you are wasting your time. If this was 'love' she'd be more consistent in her communication. If you are guessing it means there is no bond of trust between you, no real communication.



You write it as 53.6>39 and here I will use the actual words of the I Ching, the ones you need to focus on to get a feel for what they mean to you. Hilary's translation from wikiwing


'Wild geese gradually advance to the high plateau.
Their feathers can be used to perform the sacred dances.'

So 53 is the slow ceremonial progress towards marriage/fulfilment of whatever goal you ask about. Here in the 6th line the beautiful end has come. If you read through the lines you can see the stages of courtship. So this final line is to do with transcendence of the whole issue, moving on higher and away. I suppose it could mean the pair of you transcend difficulties and move on to an entirely different life together. It could also mean you both leave the experience behind but it's left you both with something than enriched you or that you can use further in your life or something you look back on as a whole finished experience like leaving school is.


To come back to earth for a moment all that sounds impossibly lofty to me for a woman that's playing her husband, bouncing around islands and contacting you randomly when she feels like it. It doesn't sound great but I will make the effort to stick loosely to the readings as maybe she is not as she sounds at all.


BTW



None of the above is the I Ching it is commentary, people's ideas about the I Ching and while it is interesting to read you cannot rely on these words, it can be misleading, better to go to a good translation, that is a translation of what Yi actually says, than collect a bunch of stuff off de Korne.

In your shoes FWIW I think you should tell her how you feel. 53.6, you're taking a final step if you tell her so it will either end of go to another level. If you tell her how you feel the relationship will go to an entirely different level which might mean several different things. When I say 'different level' I mean really different, this is a line of death, the feathers are left behind, the geese go high, they transcend. For me this line usually shows an end that I can look back as a finished experience, someone I used to be, a place I used to go, a phase of my life that left and never came back because I grew up or left home or left a partner or gained qualifications which made me fit for a different job. It could also possibly be as I said moving on into a whole new kind of relationship with her but at least if you tell her how you feel you will know for sure she cannot misread your signs and you won't end up as an older man thinking 'what if'. There's no 'what if' with 53.6, you know the 'if' because you did it, you completed the phase. It's a good line because in completing the phase you really can move on up to the next level. If she dumps you when you tell her you can move to the next level. if she says she loves you back and wants to leave her husband you also move to the next level.


But what you don't want is to be strung along or take an ongoing part in the deception of another person and that's a big issue here. So take the leap be honest with her, move forward. If she does the whole infrequent contact thing while staying with her husband then move on.

Thank you very much for your reply. I agree with you that it is better to look at a translation of the I Ching instead of a interpretation. Maybe you can provide me with a link to a good translation of I Ching?

I don't quite see how I tried to manipulate 33 uc in my favor. I hated that reading, because it meant I had to do something that went totally against my nature. The question was clearly for those 3 months. Obviously, I will ask again after that time period.

Well, I wouldn't say she stopped contact frequently. she stopped it once. I can understand this, because I chose to not go back to her island. BTW, I am the one bouncing around islands, not her .

I can understand your advice about 53.6. I will see how the situation unfolds the following weeks and try to read more about I Ching.

Thanks for your time and advice. I do have one last question: isn't your advise also based upon an interpretation of the I Ching, just like the other authors on the Internet?

 

[Trojina]

Thanks for your time and advice. I do have one last question: isn't your advise also based upon an interpretation of the I Ching, just like the other authors on the Internet?

Well yes, I've effectively just written another little mini commentary in my post. I've been using Yi for about 44 years and so it's all in my head and when I started I placed much emphasis on commentary in books (no internet then) but sometimes these commentaries led me astray/made me unhappy and they weren't even what the answer was saying. However good the commentary it won't be so supple as the words of Yi that will fit your specific situation.

I learned from this site it is better to go to Yi and sit with that answer a while because like poetry it will suggest things to you no commentary can. Then read the commentaries after that. I don't reference any books when replying here except to quote Yi from Hilary's book because it's in my head percolated from many years of throwing coins.

Maybe you can provide me with a link to a good translation of I Ching?

Hilary's book, the owner of this website is called 'I Ching 'Walking your path, Creating your future'. I also recommend Bradford Hatcher, 'Rogue River Commentaries' not sure how you get the book, he has now died but you can download his book free at http://hermetica.info

LiSe Heyboer's site
https://www.yijing.nl/

All these translations are available with the Resonance Journal which is a great way to store readings and also record dreams and synchronicities.


Also if you join Wikiwing here it's just £1 a month minimum and you get Hilary's translation, commentary and hundreds of other entries form members here so it's it's a great resource and one you can add to.



Hilary's book linked here

Recommended books

Here’s... One to get you started: I Ching: walking your path, creating your future A pair of opposites for a broader view: Total I Ching and The Laws of Change and two exceptional free translations I Ching Hilary Barrett at Amazon: This is my own book, designed to work we

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

 

[becalm]

Well, it seems to me she is not too happy in the marriage, because otherwise you would not behave like this towards another man. I know someone may stand to get hurt and believe me....the last thing I wanted is to fall in love with a married woman. However, there are some things in life which you can't control and falling in love is one of them, in my opinion.

I was being pursued by a married man about 10 years ago. There's a thread on it somewhere on here and I just told him to go back and sort out why he's unhappy with his wife, we were in contact for many months maybe longer BUT I never, ever crossed any lines and continued to keep telling him to sort things out with is wife. They're still together - he contacted me a couple of months ago and I told him to go away.

 

[becalm]

You're so lucky Trojina has taken the time to respond to your post.
I didn't know she'd had a relationship with the Yi for 44 years but now her understanding in her responses make so much more sense to me. Obviously not only her knowledge of the Yi intellectually, but well, if you were in a relationship with a person (say) for 44 years you'd certainly know them through and through.

 

[rosada]

What would you say if you caught a thief in your house and he claimed innocence because "The last thing I want is to be a thief but there are some things in life you can't control and for me falling in love with your stuff was one of them.."? Would you say, "Oh well in that case you aren't to be held responsible. You obviously had no choice but to steal..."?

Of course not and indeed, the whole ritual of marriage was created to prevent these sort of adulterous acts. The marriage ceremony is in part an acknowledgement that there is always this possibility another may catch our eye, so we have this ceremony to pledge our most sacred possession, our word, that we will not betray our oath to be faithful. That is to say, it is commonly understood that a marriage partner might find themselves attracted to another - such feelings may indeed be beyond our control - but we have the choice as to how to respond and so we vow before God, our community and all we hold dear to not act on these adulterous feelings. Often the ceremony concludes with the words, "What God has brought together, let no man put asunder," meaning the couple also asks that all who believe in God to likewise pledge not to do anything to destroy their promise.

What might this mean in this age when adultery is no longer considered to be a cardinal sin? Is it no longer important to keep one's word, especially when the promises were made when one was very young and maybe even unaware they had other options? I don't know, it's probably a very individual question, but it cannot be denied that encouraging another to betray their vows is a very heavy responsibility.

 

[Dutchyogi]

What would you say if you caught a thief in your house and he claimed innocence because "The last thing I want is to be a thief but there are some things in life you can't control and for me falling in love with your stuff was one of them.."? Would you say, "Oh well in that case you aren't to be held responsible. You obviously had no choice but to steal..."?

Of course not and likewise, the whole ritual of marriage was created to prevent these sort of adulterous acts. The marriage ceremony is in part an acknowledgement that there is always this possibility another may catch our eye, so we have this ceremony to pledge our most sacred possession, our word, that we will not betray our oath to be faithful. That is to say, it is commonly understood that a marriage partner might find themselves attracted to another - such feelings may indeed be beyond our control - but we have the choice as to how to respond and so we vow before God, our community and all we hold dear to not act on these adulterous feelings. Often the ceremony concludes with the words, "What God has brought together, let no man put asunder," meaning the couple also asks that all who believe in God to likewise pledge not to do anything to destroy their promise.

What might this mean in this age when adultery is no longer considered to be a cardinal sin? Is it no longer important to keep one's word, especially when the promises were made when one was very young and maybe even unaware they had other options? I don't know, it's probably a very individual question, but it cannot be denied that encouraging another to betray their vows is a very heavy responsibility.

I am sorry, but I think you're comparison doesn't make any sense. I do respect your previous posts about your interpretation about the I Ching readings. However, I didn't start this thread to be lectured about marriage or God. I started this thread to get more insight into I Ching readings. Now that I know your personal views upon marriage and God, it does become obvious to me how they have influenced your interpretation of my I Ching readings.

 

[Dutchyogi]

Well yes, I've effectively just written another little mini commentary in my post. I've been using Yi for about 44 years and so it's all in my head and when I started I placed much emphasis on commentary in books (no internet then) but sometimes these commentaries led me astray/made me unhappy and they weren't even what the answer was saying. However good the commentary it won't be so supple as the words of Yi that will fit your specific situation.

I learned from this site it is better to go to Yi and sit with that answer a while because like poetry it will suggest things to you no commentary can. Then read the commentaries after that. I don't reference any books when replying here except to quote Yi from Hilary's book because it's in my head percolated from many years of throwing coins.



Hilary's book, the owner of this website is called 'I Ching 'Walking your path, Creating your future'. I also recommend Bradford Hatcher, 'Rogue River Commentaries' not sure how you get the book, he has now died but you can download his book free at http://hermetica.info

LiSe Heyboer's site
https://www.yijing.nl/

All these translations are available with the Resonance Journal which is a great way to store readings and also record dreams and synchronicities.


Also if you join Wikiwing here it's just £1 a month minimum and you get Hilary's translation, commentary and hundreds of other entries form members here so it's it's a great resource and one you can add to.



Hilary's book linked here

Recommended books

Here’s... One to get you started: I Ching: walking your path, creating your future A pair of opposites for a broader view: Total I Ching and The Laws of Change and two exceptional free translations I Ching Hilary Barrett at Amazon: This is my own book, designed to work we

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Thank you for the additional information.

 

[Trojina]

Obviously not only her knowledge of the Yi intellectually, but well, if you were in a relationship with a person (say) for 44 years you'd certainly know them through and through.

Ah thanks becalm. However there's still so much I don't know. I've no scholarly knowledge on the history of Yi, meaning of the chinese characters, myths connected to Yi all that scholarly research stuff. Thankfully I can rely on Hilary, Brad. LiSe, Harmen and others to supply me with newer understandings and insights.

What would you say if you caught a thief in your house and he claimed innocence because "The last thing I want is to be a thief but there are some things in life you can't control and for me falling in love with your stuff was one of them.."? Would you say, "Oh well in that case you aren't to be held responsible. You obviously had no choice but to steal..."?

That's quite funny and yes it's exactly what some people say. I'm not saying it's the case for Dutchyogi, I don't know, I mean sometimes maybe a marriage really is over and it's time to leave and then someone comes along and another good relationship begins....


......but this whole idea that one has absolutely no choice when one is 'in love' must surely come from the religion of romantic relationships peddled in all media.


An extreme example here was where a woman was having an affair with a married man whose wife had just had twins. The man was still with his wife, his wife needed him obviously but this woman expected us to be sympathetic to her pursuit of him because she was 'in love'. When I asked about the love for his babies it didn't matter to her at all, she didn't even see them as relevant. I thought this isn't love, this isn't care, it's just taking what you want as if your wants are the supreme priority. The guy was clearly a liar and a player and stringing her along with romantic twaddle but the fact she didn't care at all about the new born babies astounded me. She still thought she had priority for his attention.

I watched the footage of Chris Watts, who murdered his wife and little girls it is thought at least partly at the encouragement of his new mistress Nichol Kessinger. Kessinger didn't want him to have a past, to have children, she wanted to be the first mother of his child. Of course they say they were 'in love'. Huh so that's what love did ! The footage of him arriving home and his questioning by the police is a must see.



Dutchyogi I don't know anything about your lady or the situation so I am not comparing you to that but as I said before it's better for you to make it a clear cut thing than go on deceiving the husband.



I am going to write a blog post I think where I make a case for respecting the reader's values in interpretation. Too often here querents will say

"Hey I don't want your opinion just do the reading, get on with it ! Yes , get cracking on my reading that's what I came here for so deliver that not your opinions."

But all interpretations come through the person themselves, the whole person including their moral values. There's no reason a reader should betray their values because they are meant to supply 'neutral' interpretation. In fact I'd say a reader with no moral compass of their own is at a disadvantage in advising others because one has to be careful not to encourage people to do harmful things. That's part of the responsibility of being a reader.

I didn't start this thread to be lectured about marriage or God.

Surely you couldn't have expected people not to possibly consider marriage and God in their reply. I mean there is a moral element to what you're asking and marriage is a vow and why did she marry if she breaks her vows so easily. Who knows maybe it's over between them, maybe he's horrible to her, maybe he cheats on her, I don't know but you can't really expect people not to see the moral issue.

Clear it up for us, tell us what she said about her husband, what's his situation ? His situation does matter. It's not very real to be telling you what to do with her when our answers might cause you to hurt him. That's why you need to be open with her so she either leaves him or leaves you (53.6) and then there's no deception to be involved in.

 

[Dutchyogi]

Ah thanks becalm. However there's still so much I don't know. I've no scholarly knowledge on the history of Yi, meaning of the chinese characters, myths connected to Yi all that scholarly research stuff. Thankfully I can rely on Hilary, Brad. LiSe, Harmen and others to supply me with newer understandings and insights.



That's quite funny and yes it's exactly what some people say. I'm not saying it's the case for Dutchyogi, I don't know, I mean sometimes maybe a marriage really is over and it's time to leave and then someone comes along and another good relationship begins....


......but this whole idea that one has absolutely no choice when one is 'in love' must surely come from the religion of romantic relationships peddled in all media.


An extreme example here was where a woman was having an affair with a married man whose wife had just had twins. The man was still with his wife, his wife needed him obviously but this woman expected us to be sympathetic to her pursuit of him because she was 'in love'. When I asked about the love for his babies it didn't matter to her at all, she didn't even see them as relevant. I thought this isn't love, this isn't care, it's just taking what you want as if your wants are the supreme priority. The guy was clearly a liar and a player and stringing her along with romantic twaddle but the fact she didn't care at all about the new born babies astounded me. She still thought she had priority for his attention.

I watched the footage of Chris Watts, who murdered his wife and little girls it is thought at least partly at the encouragement of his new mistress Nichol Kessinger. Kessinger didn't want him to have a past, to have children, she wanted to be the first mother of his child. Of course they say they were 'in love'. Huh so that's what love did ! The footage of him arriving home and his questioning by the police is a must see.



Dutchyogi I don't know anything about your lady or the situation so I am not comparing you to that but as I said before it's better for you to make it a clear cut thing than go on deceiving the husband.



I am going to write a blog post I think where I make a case for respecting the reader's values in interpretation. Too often here querents will say

"Hey I don't want your opinion just do the reading, get on with it ! Yes , get cracking on my reading that's what I came here for so deliver that not your opinions."

But all interpretations come through the person themselves, the whole person including their moral values. There's no reason a reader should betray their values because they are meant to supply 'neutral' interpretation. In fact I'd say a reader with no moral compass of their own is at a disadvantage in advising others because one has to be careful not to encourage people to do harmful things. That's part of the responsibility of being a reader.

I respectfully disagree. Rosada makes it painfully clear how personal views have a big influence on the interpretations of a reading. If I want moral advice on marriage or God, I would go to a church, not to a forum for I Ching readings. On a forum like this, I would want to find objective help on I Ching readings. If this is not possible, then I see no added value in an I Ching forum.

I wish all the users here the best and thanks for your input. I will unsubscribe, because it has become clear to me that this is not what I am looking for.

 

[Trojina]

I respectfully disagree. Rosada makes it painfully clear how personal views have a big influence on the interpretations of a reading. If I want moral advice on marriage or God, I would go to a church, not to a forum for I Ching readings. On a forum like this, I would want to find objective help on I Ching readings. If this is not possible, then I see no added value in an I Ching forum.

I wish all the users here the best and thanks for your input. I will unsubscribe, because it has become clear to me that this is not what I am looking for.

Really as if there were such a thing as 'objective' I Ching readings. People do readings, readings are never ever 'objective'. Sure go shopping somewhere else but you really won't find better resources than you will here.

Also it's pretty daft to leave because of one member's reply. Silly to forgo all there is here because one member has her own views she's a right to have.

 

[rosada]

Good luck keeping that vow, Dutchyogi!

 

[psychonaut613]

The yi ching says next time fall in love with a single woman who is ready to travel

I'm joking, but really.. it says the wanderer retreated, probably back to her partner

 

[IrfanK]

Maybe you can provide me with a link to a good translation of I Ching?

I always find requests for opinions about good translations irresistible.

All the ones Trojina mentions are great, but it depends a bit on your personality which one you like best. For the actual translation of the text of the I Ching, I think you can't go past Wilhelm. It's very strong and powerful language. With some weaknesses, including unnecessarily gender specific language (like, it wasn't that way in the original). But still absolutely wonderful. I'd recommend it to a man, but if a woman was asking, I'd point her in the direction of Hilary.

The commentaries are very classical, all about trigrams and line positions, quite abstract. Nothing like Hilary, giving examples of real life experiences with actual reading for people with the kinds of issues that you can relate to.

But we just said we're looking for a good translation of the I Ching. We aren't talking about commentaries. Wilhelm is it, I reckon. And if you have a good second hand book shop nearby, they'll have a copy of him for a few dollars, even if it's the only translation they have.

 

[rosada]

Why would you recommend Wilhelm for a man and Hilary for a woman?

 

[IrfanK]

Why would you recommend Wilhelm for a man and Hilary for a woman?

Mostly because of the gender specific language in Wilhelm. Everyone could benefit from reading both books, but for actual use, I think Wilhelm would be off-putting. It does depend a lot on the personality of the individual.

 

[rosada]

Hmm... speaking for myself I don't find Wilhelm's gender specific language off-putting but that might make for an interesting survey question. And do you think it works both ways? Are you put off by Hilary's use of feminine pronouns? Anyway, being able to identify with the oracle is certainly an essential part of divination.

Speaking of identifying - I think it would be cool if someone would invent an audio program that would record your voice reading the hexagrams so when you consulted the oracle you'd hear your higher self speaking to you in your own voice! Would you be more inclined to understand the advice? Would you be more inclined to follow it? Or to reject it? Maybe we don't trust our own voice, maybe that's why we go to others for input!

Bottom line I think is that fortunately we don't have to go with just one translation. I find my own understanding of the I Ching increases when I read multiple authors.