inferior/ superior who do we take as who?

[em ching]

Hi,

Just a quick question I've always wondered about - when a hex description refers to the inferior and superior man, how do we know who the I Ching means?

I think I read somewhere that the enquirer is to assume that she is the superior because she's consulting the i-ching but I don't think that can be right?

Does it just depend on who you're dealing with?

Thanks

 

[hilary]

It might be asking you a question or offering you a choice: which could you be?

 

[fkegan]

A Yi oracle describes a timing situation. The commentary describes various ways of reacting to that timing or situation. The Superior Man is the one reacting ideally to the situation. The inferior man is acting poorly in that situation. It is a statement of what to do and what not to do in general.

In any specific cast the two describe the best and worst alternatives. It is up to you to heed the advice or understand who is taking which part or to realize what might seem tempting but rather stretch to do better.

Frank

 

[dobro p]

In addition to the extreme polarity that Frank's described (it's apt sometimes), you might also think of the difference between the two as one of psychological motivation. What moves the 'superior man'? It could be anything better than sense pleasure, automatic reflex, or selfish calculation - a desire for knowledge is a step above these things, for example, as is a desire for self-knowledge, as is a desire to help somebody out of their suffering, as is a desire to act with restraint rather than impulse. Conversely, what moves the 'inferior man'? Automatic reflexes, conditioned responses, mainly - that which is automatic and unconscious keeps us at our lowest level.

 

[em ching]

Ok, well with regards to someone I like I got 43- Breakthrough which I've been told suggests a problem between us...

The Wilhem translation begins : " applied to human conditions, it refers to the time when inferior people gradually begin to disappear. Their influence is on the wain; as a result of resolute action, a change in conditions occurs, a break-through."

Now does this suggest that because I am a bit inhibited/ shy with him, I am not influencing him to consider me (if he does like me that is) because there isn't ease/ openness of communication and thus we are not equals in a sense?
ie I am the inferior in question?
I mean I feel we have things in common but I'm probably not in a position to be confident about him romantically?

Maybe I keep wanting what isn't attainable which is an inferior action (ie based on instinctive/ selfish desire not the reality of my position?) and 43 suggests this is a time to forget about him and concentrate on self-improvement before I succumb to weakness again?

 

[hilary]

Well, this is an unusual case. Wilhelm talks about superior and inferior men, but the Yi actually doesn't. Wilhelm's looking at the structure of the lines - five yang below, one yin at the top being 'pushed out' - casting yin as 'inferior' and yang as 'superior', and going from there. So basically, this isn't part of your reading, it's part of someone's ideas about it. If it helps, go with it; if it doesn't, you can let it go.

 

[em ching]

Ok so perhaps I am the inferior being pushed away by him?

Or an inferior element within my character has been recognised and pushed out as a result of the encounter.

 

[fkegan]

Ok so perhaps I am the inferior being pushed away by him?

Or an inferior element within my character has been recognised and pushed out as a result of the encounter.

Hi em ching,
There you start to get hung up in the difference between a shared reading of a specific oracle to be interpreted and the overall consideration of what is junzi or superior man and what is designated inferior.

In hex 43, the commentary is just referring to Yang and Yin with the superior being the male Yang and the inferior being the female Yin. This is more a philosophical thing than real designations. Confucian commentary rather than intrinsic content.

Frank

 

[em ching]

right - I think..

so how does the hexagram bode.. well or not? (I guess this belongs in the shared readings forum now...)

I see it as suggesting a shedding away of something.. but what I'm not sure.. something within or without? Perhaps I'm confusing things unneccessarily..

What does the hexagram generally advise with regards to situations?

 

[hilary]

This is the answer to the question, 'Does he think of me that way or not?', isn't it?

In at least three different ways -
- asking about what someone else thinks of you
- asking for a yes/no response
- asking an either/or question
- this question makes it enormously different to tell how you're being answered. I think it's possible that instead of answering your question, Yi's giving you some direct advice. LiSe's site sums it up well.

 

[em ching]

Ok thanks

I guess it's just not giving me the satisfaction of a yes/ no answer because that can't exist, and even if I got something I'd consider a 'no' such as 'splitting apart' or a hexagram like that - i'd probably still hope a bit, until more time goes by and I realise he doesn't that way...

Yes so it's speaking to me about myself and what I should consider, maybe don't worry so much be true to yourself and if there is harm then weather it.. continue on your way with strength perhaps? - rather than giving me insight into his intentions...

Makes sense in that case... I just wish I could stop thinking about it!

 

[turtlfur]

Did anyone mention that "superior man" is a translation for "Junzi"??
Looking at the Junzi thread might be enlightening as well...


Inferior man can be a translation for "xiao ren" or small person, a character that is often juxtaposed with the Junzi.....