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Internal alchemy and the trigrams

sergio

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Very interesting paper on internal alchemy and the symbolism of the trigrams.Also a very interesting note in page 19 regarding the function and purpose of the inner alchemy language-more like a devise to create a state of mind proper to access another kind of understanding,a more subsconcious one as opposed to intelectual understanding.
http://www2.arts.ubc.ca/bcar/no12/articles/crowe/article.pdf
Sergio
 

pantherpanther

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Very nice article, following the interpretations of such contemporary Taoism scholars as Robinet and Kohn. Robinet's paraphrase on page 19 of a Taoist master ( "neidan are only metaphors") is quoted by Crowe to indicate the symbology in the text, Chapters on Awakening to the Real: A Song Dynasty Classic of Inner Alchemy Attributed to Zhang Boduan (ca. 983 -1081), is 'to free the mind.'

There is a distinction made between contemplation and practice, as between respiratory work and concentration of the mind, by Robinet et al. Is this so of Taoist neidan or Chan, for that matter? I don't think so. "Metaphors" were intended to be experienced in the body and mind together, not as implied in Robinet's paraphrase. Chapter 42 of the TTC, read as internal alchemy, indicates the two make three , which is at the same time a "unity." This seems closer to the spirit and meaning of metaphors in the text on neidan.
 
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sergio

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Hi Panther;
Sorry for this really late answer.I am not very sure what you mean when you say "a distinction between contemplation and practise and respiratory work and concentration of the mind";since the cases present a choice of two different activities not suitable for comparison among them,IMO.
Chan and Taoism present similarities in approach and concepts which is what Robinet and Crowe are emphasizing .The language ,in its alegorical and figurative style,aims both at encoding (to protect from the unworthy or hasty)and at suspending our judgement thus becoming"all metaphors".But this metaphors also point to processes that must be enforced in our bodies by our mind.Ultimately the mind commands and the body follows-that is the real message,I think.Without engaging the mind,without knowing "the code"in the words and without a qualified Master to guide the practitioner,then the text becomes,at the risk of been taken literally,meaningless and impractical.
Internal alchemy ,like meditation,is about doing,feeling not rationally explainable or understandable thus" the tao that can be explained is not the tao"
Sergio
 

pantherpanther

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Sergio,
Yes, I think we agree. What I was getting at about neidan was that a text by itself is part of a teaching. It may have metaphors and symbols that have meaning, but the teaching - in practice -requires other aspects , as the guidance and presence of a teacher and/or meditative protocols, gestures, chants and music that complement a text (as in sacred dances or rituals for example that have all these elements together.) As it said, a teaching cannot be expressed words.

I don't feel Robinet, Crowe et al. are thinking about it this way, rather they are writing for academicians. I am looking at it as though all teachings are essentially the same although diverse in form - Chan, Taoist , whatever.
 
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sergio

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Hi Panther;
Yes,essentially all teachings have something in common and that something ,IMO,would be meditation.Although the approach to it will be different from one philosophy to another,i.e.eyes closed or eyes open,sitting on the floor or chair,clearing the mind or using images.
Regarding the paper at hand I have no way to probe Crowe or Robinet are not talking from experience,I do agree that possible they got to know these texts from an academic perspective.Livia Khon and Eva Wong come to mind as some of the scholars actively involved not only in translating but also in practicing what they preach,so to speak.As the saying goes the proof of the pudding is in the trying,would'nt you say?
Sergio
 

pantherpanther

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Hi Panther;
Yes,essentially all teachings have something in common and that something ,IMO,would be meditation.Although the approach to it will be different from one philosophy to another,i.e.eyes closed or eyes open,sitting on the floor or chair,clearing the mind or using images.
Regarding the paper at hand I have no way to probe Crowe or Robinet are not talking from experience,I do agree that possible they got to know these texts from an academic perspective.Livia Khon and Eva Wong come to mind as some of the scholars actively involved not only in translating but also in practicing what they preach,so to speak.As the saying goes the proof of the pudding is in the trying,would'nt you say?
Sergio

Sergio,
I don't know what practises Robinet or Crowe may have. I don't know Eva or Livia personally but I like their work. Over 50 years I've met many teachers who practised meditation. Some had big souls and some were responsible and sincere guides. I valued what they taught. I would guess that not one in a thousand really understood that the mind cannot communicate with the feeling except through the body. At the core of every original teaching it was known that the three parts are designed to work together: A simple law that religions and teachings have largely "forgot". There are fakir, religious and yoga practices that stress one function or part. I have no problem with "using" them and learning from those who teach them. These practises exist in all the traditions, sometimes the three ways are mixed.

Many of the teachings have rich cultural material and sacred rituals. However , the "keys" to understand them are not known and have been forgotten. This is true of the Christian Mass , the Buddhist canon and so on. There are whole teachings in sacred art, as the Chinese Emperor's cloud collar, a Persian rug, a Buddhist statue, J S Bach's B Mass, Temple dances and so on. They all can be aids to meditation and many use them with that intention.But relating mind and body and harmonizing them with the feeling is not generally understood as the surest and safest approach to them and meditation.

Charles Upton writes in the current ssue of Parabola,“At the beginning of the third millennium, the human race is in the process of forgetting what it means to be human. We don’t know who or what we are; we don’t know what we are supposed to be doing here….Human life is no longer felt to be valuable in the face of eternity.” Upton sees us and the whole universe caught in a cycle that is sliding inexorably downwards “from the pole of Essence, or Forma–the Hindu Purusha–towards the pole of Substance, or Materia–the Hindu Prakriti.

And so we all are in the same boat , not yet "human." Yet that is our possibility, to rediscover in the present what we have forgot .

And the way up is the way down, the way forward is the way back. You cannot face it steadily, but this thing is sure, That time is no healer: the patient is no longer here.
("The Dry Salvages")
 
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