Is a potential move viable? - 40.1 >54

[em ching]

Hi,

I asked the Yi if a friendship I have, is strong enough, to support my moving to a foreign country and taking up a new and probably challenging job, where she will also be, with other friends she has there.

We get on well mostly, and I do really like her but I'm not sure if I'd have a place out there, or if I'm suited to it..

Anyway, i asked the yi Is our friendship strong enough for me to consider moving out there?

40.1 > 54

Is this saying I need to liberate/ deliver myself from her influence i.e it's my life do as i want to do? (though I'm not sure what that truly is at the mo0 Or is it saying liberate from the friendship as she has stronger partnerships elsewhere? (hex 54) And perhaps it wouldn't be suited to me anyway?

I am not seriously considering it, but it is definitely an exciting looking option as I am currently stuck in a hazy state of direction, and career uncertainty...

Thanks, some interpretations here would be most helpful and I'd be very grateful.

:bows:

 

[Trojina]

Hi,

there?

40.1 > 54

Is this saying I need to liberate/ deliver myself from her influence i.e it's my life do as i want to do? (though I'm not sure what that truly is at the mo0 Or is it saying liberate from the friendship as she has stronger partnerships elsewhere? (hex 54) And perhaps it wouldn't be suited to me anyway?



:bows:

Look thats the bit of the answer you have to figure out yourself 'is it this or is it that' cos how would anyone else know if you don't. I mean I don't get why you think we will know which it refers to as we don't live in your mind or in your life.

Having said that I don't think your answer says anything about liberating yourself from her..it just says 'look there is no problem'. Thats your answer...there is no problem.

Of course if you keep on thinking about it and asking more and more it will all certainly get more complicated,,but at the moment it isn't complicated at all. Can you bear that ? Can you bear the fact theres no complications here and you can just do as you please ?

And why do people obsess about the relating hex when theres one line moving. when theres one line moving thats very clear answer theres no need to delve into the relating hexagram that much.

Hex 40 says something like 'if theres things to be done do them if not resume normal life'. I think you can do what you want here, if you want to do it do it, if you don't don't. If the trouble is in knowing what you want only you can figure that out

 

[em ching]

Oh right I didn't know that about the one line moving meaning next hex is less relevant - makes sense though I guess... and enhances the meaning of 40.1 which seems to be about simplicity ; 'few words are needed' ' One recuperates in peace and keeps still'.

Ok thanks trojan - I know I over-analyse. I just don't know whether it's something I should seriously consider as it would be a big commitment, but then again - planning ahead should be kept to a minimum eh - hex 57 and all that.

So I'll see how the arrow points as time goes on... i just don't want to do something that my nature wouldn't be suited to, just because it suits someone else very well.. but i know it would be a learning experience, which is always good, and different surroundings...

Thanks.
:bows:

 

[Trojina]

Someone recently was talking about our assumptions behind questions that might limit how we interpret answers. You asked if your friendship was strong enough for you to take this work abroad...the assumption being possibly that the whole experience for you rests on this friendship....whereas perhaps in the grand scheme of things the friendship is incidental or just a factor that makes it possible for you explore this facet of your destiny/life. I suppose it is wise to consider how much of a support network you'll have when you get there though, I can see that, but also you might generally ask about the whole project. I felt the answer 40.1 referred to the whole project, almost saying the friendship is not an issue or problem you need to worry about as a factor in making the decision.

 

[diamanda]

You asked how strong your friendship is. Well, not very - you are not her
most important friend (54) - but still there's no blame anywhere (40:1).
It's all good and fine - surely we can't be everyone's best friend, and we
logistically can't have tons of 'best' friends. It's nothing personal against
you, she just happens to have someone else as best friend.

Your question also contained the part of 'can your friendship support your
move to another country and job', which sounds a bit too drastic - surely
you must know already if your friendship is a deep heart-felt connection,
and it should be clear if there's a lot of love between you? You also said
"just because it suits someone else very well" - does that mean that she
is trying to convince you to do that because it suits her? In any case, i
know Trojan has a point with the one changing line, but i can't help but
notice here that 40 says "get rid of tension, relief, return to normality,
leave it", line 1 advises to rest, and 54 tells you that "undertakings bring
misfortune, nothing that would further".

Nothing in your answer advises you to take any action here.

 

[em ching]

Thanks Diamanda and Trojan!

the assumption being possibly that the whole experience for you rests on this friendship....whereas perhaps in the grand scheme of things the friendship is incidental or just a factor that makes it possible for you explore this facet of your destiny/life.

Yep agree there - I was placing too much importance on that aspect and not the reality of the work and move - the friendship would just be a happy side factor in the grand scheme of things.


surely we can't be everyone's best friend, and we
logistically can't have tons of 'best' friends. It's nothing personal against
you, she just happens to have someone else as best friend.

Too right. we're all so different that to find someone you can relate to totally and be at complete ease with is a rare thing - and i know I have that with a couple of girlfriends whom I cherish - and I feel so lucky to have them! Although I like her and we get along - there is some sense of distance or misunderstanding (minor but there) and yeah I haven't known her for that long so hex 54 makes sense

Well I meant that she loves the job out there - but as we are quite different - I think in an aspect that makes her good at the job, and me probably not so much. I feel I can see that now - thanks to the yi and more importantly you two! I don't think it would be the right thing for me to consider really, when I really think about it. I think it's cause i feel I have no other career options or sense of belonging at the mo, or financial stability so the idea posed some kind of escape from that - pressing the pause button kind of..

I asked the yi a while ago Am I capable of doing this job?
20.2, 5 > 4

Perfect answer. Line 2 : If you can see only a small part of something, then stay nimble and open. Creativity can do a lot with few possibilities, if one refrains from a predetermined course, always ready to answer to the moment. - \lise

saying don't restrict yourself with preconceived negative self-evaluations! as it is egotiscical and 'narrow way of contemplating things' in public life.

However line 5 says: Look at your life as if you assess a stranger. See your own good and bad sides. For both one needs honesty, both are difficult.

The idea of self evaluation and the effects you have produced on others in the past is important to consider here, and i think that because of my shyness etc my character would not be suited to the work involved. Basically saying look at yourself objectively, know your own nature and don't repeat mistakes. And I have often put myself in scary situations not suited to my personality, and though these have taught me valuable lessons, they should be leading me to make more informed decisions

Then hex 4 probably saying how i am still young, a student of the world and need to bear that in mind.

Thanks everyone!
:bows:

 

[rosada]

Did you literally ask the question the way you have posted it here? "Is our friendship strong enough for me to CONSIDER moving out there?" Because if that is what you were asking, the I Ching could be giving quite a different interpretation than if it were responding to, "Is our friendship strong enough for me to move out there?"

40.1 emphasizes the desire to have things be clear and the appropriateness of discussing all doubts and possibilities at this point. Wilhelm puts it, "Six at the beginning: WITHOUT BLAME. On the border between firm and yielding there should be no blame."
Thus at this border between going or not going there should be NO BLAME in considering all the possibilities.

So I see the I Ching is saying, "Yes, your friendship is strong enough to CONSIDER such a move" - with the implied idea that whether you decide after careful consideration to stay or go, the friendship will survive your considering the possibilities.

Consider the image of 54.:
Thus the superio

 

[em ching]

Yes, i asked is the friendship strong enough for me to consider moving. That may sound strange to you? But, it's just that if i were to move there and undertake the challenge, as it has many attractions, I would be a part of her current group out there, though i know I'd make other friends too and wouldn't by any means be stuck to her like glue, she would be my main support and social group when living there - and it would be in a completely foreign country - different language and culture etc.. and I woudn't want the friendship to disintergrate there, or to feel uncomfortable, if there isn't a strong enough connection..

But i know that's not the best way to look at it as it removes my own agency and I 100% see that now. And I don't think it'd be the best idea for me all things considered..

 

[rosada]

Cool.
I stopped short above as I had a phone call. I wanted to point out the Image of 54 has worthwhile insight: "The superior man understands the transitory in the light of the eternity of the end." That sounds like good advice for whenever one is considering possibilities.
But anyway, as you say, you've thought it through and come to a clear decision - and as the I Ching assured you, your friendship was strong enough to survive the Consideration process - bravo!

 

[em ching]

"The superior man understands the transitory in the light of the eternity of the end."

Nice imagery! Is that saying that everything changes/ day to day life is by nature fluid, so considering something doesn't necessarily lead to it being the right thing, as perhaps other 'more right' things will come along in the mean time.. as you go along? so everything is transitory, and how you think and feel now about a prospect, will inevitably change anyway? So you just have to go along and see what comes up/ changes?

How do you interpret that sentence Rosada?

 

[ginnie]

Can I jump in?

Hexagram 54 is one of those governing voluntary relationships -- those that we choose ourselves. In ancient times it meant a young woman taken into a house, but not as the chief wife. Whether or not this is a bad thing is entirely up to the people involved.

I find that the sentence quoted by Rosada means this: When making decisions, don't be distracted by passing notions and distractions. Think of what would be best in the long term. Also think what you are doing it for. Because if you begin badly, you'll have to live with the consequences of that for a very long time.

 

[rosada]

Understanding "the transitory in the light of the eternity of the end" says to me it is good at this point for a person to consider what their goal is here. Is this relationship furthering your original purpose or is it a side trip or even a derailment?

To make up an example, suppose a person feels they have a calling to devote their life to medicine and yet they find they unexpectedly have become interested in finance, then getting 54 would prompt them to consider the interest in finance may just be a whim and they should drop the study. Or they may see 54 as a hint that they wont be able to achieve their ultimate goal in medicine unless they also understand finances, and therefor they should study it further. The point is, the choice here should be considered in terms of how does it support the larger purpose .

In relationships, although 54 is called The Marrying Maiden, it particularly refers to relationships that are not bound by all the expectations and legal enforcements of a marriage. This hexagram is about the second, not the first wife, the relationship you enter just cause you love her. But what if the love grows cold?
There is the strong suggestion that one may grow tired of the commitment and as Barbra warns, find could be difficult to get out of. The advice seems to be one should be slow to commit, but not afraid to.

If 54. were a song I'd nominate, "Fooled Around and Fell in Love," because it suggests getting involved in something that was not a part of one's original intention - but it just might turn out to be something even better.

 

[Trojina]

But she didn't get 54, 54 was a relating hex and with one line moving its not of such great significance it should be read above the advice of 40.1. 40.1 is the answer not 54. If you have to consider 54 isn't looking at the fan yao, 54.1, the most helpful as the kind of reverse image of 40.1. 54.1 says one is not the first in time or preference but 40.1 is the reverse of this...so why people are focusing in so much on 54 really eludes me.

 

[Trojina]

well i suppose if you all think 54 is more important than the answer of 40.1 then thats your choice...seems potty to me

 

[Trojina]

popping a chill pill


thats better

 

[rosada]

Good morning trojan! Just think of it as people having waaay too much caffeine and nothing on t.v.

 

[Trojina]

Morning Rosada ? Its not morning its afternoon. (here)..good afternoon Rosada

and may the force be with you

when you want it to be

 

[em ching]

Lol. Good afternoon too! I should really be looking for jobs at the mo, perhaps the yi is my marrying maiden If only it wasn't so easy to delve into the yi! It does absorb one somewhat... Perhaps someone could commission me to do a study!?

I think I need to go deeper into the techniques of reading the Yi - because I haven't grasped how to read moving lines, changing the reading depending on how many lines are moving etc... Fan yao - does that mean the line which changes in the first hexagram, means the changing line in the second should be ignored when cosidering the entire second hexagram? I need to read up...

There is the strong suggestion that one may grow tired of the commitment and as Barbra warns, find could be difficult to get out of. The advice seems to be one should be slow to commit, but not afraid to... your friendship was strong enough to survive the Consideration process - bravo!

Nice point Rosada it was! And I do think we'd get on fine, it's just that I now think I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be the right move for me personally.

When making decisions, don't be distracted by passing notions and distractions. Think of what would be best in the long term. Also think what you are doing it for. Because if you begin badly, you'll have to live with the consequences of that for a very long time.

Exactly Barbra - and i feel at peace with the realisation that I should bear in mind the idea of carving my own way, never mind what other people are doing, eventhough I can't see the way I'm carving too clearly at the mo.. I know what I'm interested in and perhaps should go where my abilities take me - rather than possibly going against them..

The point is, the choice here should be considered in terms of how does it support the larger purpose .

Yep I can see now, that it wouldn't do that for me. whatever my purpose is.

So would you say Trojan that the second hexagram is perhaps just a by-product, that allows a stressing of the first line in the first hexagram? But then again, everything happens for a reason and it does resonate with me as a reminder of our friendship, as fairly new - good but perhaps not to be relied upon too much, and independence is key -especially with career type decisions...

So there you go back to the good old drawing board.

:bows:

 

[Trojina]

I think I need to go deeper into the techniques of reading the Yi - because I haven't grasped how to read moving lines, changing the reading depending on how many lines are moving etc... Fan yao - does that mean the line which changes in the first hexagram, means the changing line in the second should be ignored when cosidering the entire second hexagram? I need to read up...


So would you say Trojan that the second hexagram is perhaps just a by-product, that allows a stressing of the first line in the first hexagram? But then again, everything happens for a reason and it does resonate with me as a reminder of our friendship, as fairly new - good but perhaps not to be relied upon too much, and independence is key -especially with career type decisions...

So there you go back to the good old drawing board.

:bows:

Its just when only one line moves some people i think, including myself give that one line a great deal of importance and less importance to the relating hex. The more lines move the more attention i pay to the relating hexagram

in the end its up to you how you choose to read it..everyone uses different ways..if i had too much caffeine i find that irritating and have to take chill pill

The 'fan yao' is the same line in the relating hexagram so if you get 40.1 in primary you'd look at 54.1 in relating hexagram to kind of get a reflection like a mirror image...thats how i understand it anyway. I think that can be helpful.

 

[em ching]

great thanks!
I think i understand though the idea of getting a reflection is a bit confusing - I mean, it wouldn't be a relfection if what is said the one line in the first hexagram seems to be completley opposite to what is said in that same line in the second.. but then maybe it is drawing your attention to another possible layer in the situation... that may reveal itself in time?
Hmmm..

 

[Trojina]

great thanks!
I think i understand though the idea of getting a reflection is a bit confusing - I mean, it wouldn't be a relfection if what is said the one line in the first hexagram seems to be completley opposite to what is said in that same line in the second.. but then maybe it is drawing your attention to another possible layer in the situation... that may reveal itself in time?
Hmmm..

Perhaps reflection is the wrong word. I mean the inverse, the opposite, the flip side...perhaps they are the wrong words too. If I'm stuck sometimes I look at the fan yao and then consider the flip of that to get a h andle on the line i got. I used 'reflection' cos in a reflection aren't things the same only the other way around .

I don't think its drawing your attention to another possible layer its just I think you can use it as a clue to throw the line you got into relief. Say take 2.2 'nothing is done but everything is accomplished', something like that ie that doesn't require initiative or action. The fan yao is 7.2 where the 'leader is in the midst of the army' where there is someone taking firm control and taking initiative, making decisions...those 2 could be said to reflect one another.

thats my understanding of it anyway, others may know better

 

[ginnie]

My 2 cents

The intricacies of interpretation are very difficult and time-consuming to explain in writing.

The moving lines in the primary hexagram are usually the strongest and best indicators about what to do, what not to do, to wait, and so forth.

A good practice is to go back and write what happened later in your I Ching notebook. Or, you will remember what happened later, and that will be the way you develop your feel for interpretation . . .

 

[em ching]

ok so it means that if you don't quite get the line in the first hex, by looking at it's fan yao, you get an idea of what it is not.

so for example, I know this is off subject, but it kind of relates to the title. There is someone with whom I have a friendship, though I also have feelings for, and though we are close and talk etc, I don't think he realises.. perhaps it is only fit as a platonic thing.. but maybe it's fluid?

i asked the yi recently about his reaction to a message (64.4 > 4) and whether he would reply (41.1, 5 > 59 - for which I read in a previous thread, a better tack would be to ask whether he wants to draw closer or further... which I thought would be useful! So I aksed (as advised in the thread)

what is the qualification of his position within the relation?
15.1, 2, 6 > 26

Here I suppose saying he is restricting or trying to minimise the power of my advancement? And modesty... perhaps he feels he doesn't deserve so much attention from me - could it be confusing him?

what is the qualification of my position within the relation?
9.1 > 57

so, as opposed to reading 57.1 which talks about indicisiveness, I should just continue on my path of being his friend (keeping things small) or could it be drawing attention to a need to be more decisive.. perhaps tell him? but then i suppose if that were the case i would have got 57.1...

I think I give a lot in this friendship (I want to) but perhaps he is a bit baffled as to why i am so interested (reflected by 62.1,2,3 > 54 when I asked about the nature of the relation, which lead me to ask : should I tell him how I feel?
46.2 > 15

seems to be saying yes? although gently? can't see the way open to me at the moment though... we are in contact, but he can mainly be characterised by hex 56 - and following someone else... probably..

I asked why does he dominate my thoughts?
63.4 > 49

I read somewhere that 63 has to do with uniting contrasts, and 49 about living with contrasts.. i suppose he's quite different from me which i find interesting..

what I can expect in the future from the relationship?
25.4, 5 > 21

Is hex 25 saying I still don't know the entire truth of the relationship? Perhaps he is hiding something good, or bad... that I need to bite through.. eventually..

Could he ever fulfill the role for me, that I seem to want from him?
3.5 > 24

Is this saying keep working on eradicating that idea and feeling, though it is a difficult process because we are in contact? Or perhaps that there is someone else involved in the situation who is stopping it ever happening.. (3.5) so i need to return to being satisfied with things as they are..

Well i know i've gone off on a tangent here But if anyone can pick anything out here that'd be great (for my sanity and perhaps to quieten the voice of hope).. I guess i want to see where it's going more clearly.. because i feel the connection strongly.. for some reason and am wondering if I should just bite the bullet and take some sort of action - but maybe there isn't lee-way here for me to do so...

Thanks
:bows:

 

[ginnie]

The moving lines

If you don't understand the moving line in your primary hexagram, then that is the real problem here. Asking more and more questions is not going to help you.

Since you ask often about relationships and everyday matters, like your job, I think Sarah Dening's translation, The Everyday I Ching, would be a good translation for you. She uses everyday language, and you will find no references at all to bulls with boards on their horns, or teams of horses straying when the moon is almost full.

Also, you might like Thomas Cleary's translation, which is also written in modern language, but it one goes into each moving line very deeply, which I think might help you.

You might consider becoming a member of this website, because then you could go to WikiWing in the member's area and look up your moving line.

Asking so many questions -- I think you are using an approach that is like a shotgun, hoping by this approach to hit something or anything out there. Rather try to nail down some of these moving lines in your primary hexagrams, and you will start to feel like you're getting somewhere in your study of the I Ching.

 

[em ching]

Ok i guess there is definitely something to be said for keeping things simple, but it feels too late for that here.
Thanks for your suggestion though! I will try and calm my mind and dissect out the lines...

I guess the readings I'm most interested in understanding, are the one's about his, and my position in the relationship..

Anyway I'm sure the activity in my head will calm soon, and things will settle and hopefully become clearer... rather than throwing up more questions... the more you know the less you know... Or maybe everything is simple.. just be, and see I suppose.. I just wish I could resign myself once and for all that there is no potential here in that mode.. but I guess there is rarely a once and for all, in the day by day ever changing running of things..

 

[ginnie]

Slowing down time . . .

We all ignore the answer we've been given and rush to ask another question sometimes. This is a tendency that can become a really bad habit. If you do not understand a moving line, you need to go deeper into that moving line. This is not the same as "making things simple." It is the process of being willing to understand something.

What is the most important thing you need to know today? Boil it down to one question. Get the answer. And then try to understand the answer. Prevent yourself from asking any more questions on different subjects.

Your mind is really jumpy! You need to have a meditation session before you sit down with the I Ching, because your lack of focus is producing a chaotic confusion of questions, but not much clarity . . . Almost certainly you would benefit from having a meditation session before sitting down with the I Ching. That would slow time down for you and give you more patience . . .

 

[em ching]

yes you're right - I do need more self - discipline when my head gets wound up over a topic to minimise the questions I ask and be more willing to accept and absorb the answer I get I suppose.. after all, though the hexagrams are complex.. the concept of Tao certainly isn't.. hmm..