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Is It Just Me?

mercury

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Okay, I mentioned this in another thread, but I have to try and get some clarity here: I asked yi about contacting someone. I got 1.5>14. Sounded pretty positive to me, and I was surprised, since I've gotten so many ambivalent or negative responses to this kind of question in the past.

So I asked for further elaboration on this answer, and got 28.2.6>33. Huh?

I may be wrong about what I'm getting from these, but they seem totally contradictory. Is yi just mirroring my own ambivalence about the situation? Was the first reading more of an indirect answer, about the rest of my life rather than this person? Or is yi telling me that I have access to great influence/power/energy in the situation, but I have to beware what use I put it to?
 

dobro p

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It looks to me like the Yi was answering your question directly in the first instance, but in the second it was addressing not your first question but your repeated (and unnecessary) questioning. The second one seems to saying something like: "Your question was answered before, and this repeated questioning goes way beyond what you need. Pull out." In other words, return to what the Yi gave you the first time.

I don't know if I'd describe 1.5 as positive so much as spectacular. I'd go for it.
 

willowfox

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"I asked yi about contacting someone. I got 1.5>14."

Well, this is a very positive answer saying yes go ahead and make contact.

"So I asked for further elaboration on this answer, and got 28.2.6>33."

Hex 28.2 an older guy takes a young wife, very good, new life in this relationship.

Hex 28.6 this is talking about taking a risk that you consider is well wothwhile, don't worry about danger because that is with us 24/7.

Hex 33 retreating, but retreating from what or whom? You don't need to retreat from her, she is not your enemy. Perhaps the problem is you and any negative thoughts etc that you have about this situation, you have to rid yourself of them. Retreating from a negative thought pattern into a positive sitaution where anything is possible, including a very good relationship.
 

mercury

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Thanks for the feedback. I'm still confused, but delving more...I asked the same question today, the following day: I got Hex. 51, with no changes...if I try to interpret this in a negative way, it doesn't make sense -- but if in a positive way, it sort of does: more about changing life or looking at things from a new perspective, and contacting this person would be a very definite change for me.

But it's a big deal. I don't know if I can summon the confidence that 28.6 counsels.
 

mercury

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I'm so obsessed I'm answering myself! Now I asked yi, "what might be the outcome if I do NOT make contact?" I received 23.2.3>18. But here my intuition fails me. I can interpret it a couple of ways given my situation.
 

willowfox

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""what might be the outcome if I do NOT make contact?" I received 23.2.3>18."

Hex 23.2 says if you do not make contact then you lose out.

Hex 23.3 as you have strong feelings for her, you must stop your negative thinking before it defeats you, so no contact and your a loser.

Hex 18 decay, so if you don't make contact then the whole affair simply decays and wastes away. End of story and an opportunity missed.


Hex 28.6 is talking about taking a risk, so if you don't try then you will never know what might/could have been. What's your problem, you have nothing to lose by trying, have you?
 

willowfox

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"I asked the same question today, the following day: I got Hex. 51"

You contact her, and surprise, surprise, she responds. You are shocked, fearful of what your next move should be. But after some thought you ask her out or something, and then comes the happiness and laughter bit.
So there you go, all very positive, so why are you still asking the same question? You should have been on the phone or around to see her many days ago, so stop pondering and try. If you don't try then you won't succeed, will you?
 

mercury

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Hey willowfox, thanks for looking at this. My hesitation is due to the really sensitive nature of the situation...without going onto it again, there's been a lot of life-changing drama centered around this relationship and she's basically started a new life since I last saw her two and a half years ago. Though our bond was very strong and deep, my contacting her could very well be seen as a very unwelcome intrusion from a troubled past as well as compromising my own current relationship.

I don't want to be completely selfish and intrude in her present life, but I'd love to be able to talk to her again and possibly find some sort of closure, peace, or even renewing a friendship. So, I;m confused. Hesitant.
 

willowfox

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Okay, why not start out by saying hello, nice day ain't it, how are you. You ever thought that maybe she would like to say hello to you?
 

mercury

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I have thought it; I can imagine that she would. But there's the matter of that pesky new husband of hers. I think she wants to be a straight arrow now.
 

beithe

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Hi mercury
I agree with dobro and willowfox as far as 1.5>14 stand. Make the call or the contact or whatever.

My thoughts about 28.6 the sixth line and your comment about the pesky new husband is something else again. This seems to say that you should be aware of the level of involvement that you can actually have with her. If your feelings or motives exceed friendship or closure then there may be problems. 23.3 talks about stripping away the old (feelings) and self renewal and the renewal of relationships. 23.2 seems to say that you need to know where you stand? or your place? It also cautions against turning this into something that you will have haunting you forever. Hexagram 18 if you snooze you lose.You may be able to have a good relationship now if you don't try you will never know.

It just seems that you started with a green light but you keep asking as if you are not sure of what you actually want from this. Maybe it's time for a long walk and good long think?
Just my 1.5 cents worth :D
 

mercury

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Hi beithe, thank so much for your 1.5! I know, I started with a green but I'm waiting at the intersection, not sure whether it's right or left. I think your point about my expectations and old feelings is right on the money, and my fear of disappointment or frustration is what's keeping me from moving ahead and making contact.

I asked yi again about taking action in this situation; I got 15.1.4.5>49. Modesty, humility -- remembering what's really going on, where I really am and what the situation really is. So I'm trying to temper my expectations and gauge whether the actions are worth it given the fact that things will have changed between us.

It may be too much for me to take, that our earlier rapport and intensity is gone. I'm trying to figure out good questions to ask yi to explore that notion, what I expect, what she might be feeling, what is possible between us now, etc.
 

willowfox

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"I asked yi again about taking action in this situation; I got 15.1.4.5>49."

Hex 15.1 says that you are making something very easy and simple into a complicated affair, the message is to quickly get on with it and say hello.

Hex 15.4 take action.

Hex 15.5 says to take action but to objective and polite.

Hex 49 calls for a major change in your thinking, from negative to positive, stop messing around and go say hello. All very good.
 

Trojina

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mercury said:
It may be too much for me to take, that our earlier rapport and intensity is gone. I'm trying to figure out good questions to ask yi to explore that notion, what I expect, what she might be feeling, what is possible between us now, etc.

Can i just check with you that you have not seen this woman for two and a half years and she is now married to someone else ? If so my (boring ) advice is don't bother to ask about how she feels or what is possible between you, you would be going round in circles, feeding on false hopes and spiralling ever further away from reality. I think for myself sometimes the Yi, if you ask often enough over the same thing just generates pretty random answers, well maybe it has to when a person doesn't listen to the first 100 answers. Do it or don't do it but I can't see any use in thinking up further questions.

If I'm wrong about your situation I apologise, getting confused as there seem to be so many people here asking the same question.
 

mercury

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No, you're mostly right, Trojan. Haven't actually seen her in that long, but have had very brief contact, and only recently learned the new facts of her life. What can I say -- it's complicated. We had a very long, intense relationship that marked both our lives deeply.

I agree with you about false hopes and spiralling away from reality -- that's exactly what I DON'T want. I usually steer completely clear of asking about other people's motivations or feelings; I've seen others do it but I never really got how it could work. I've been confused by the contradictory answers I've been getting on my last couple of questions, so I thought maybe I'd try -- more out of curiosity to see if it made any sense than anything else. But I don't put too much stock in it.

I asked a question, got a really positive answer, asked for further clarification, got something that felt much more ambiguous, hence, confusion. But it's led me to re-examine my own motivations more honestly, and I can see that's where the confusion is really coming from.

I thought about what I might say in a letter, gamed it out in my head. I asked how things might go if I sent it. I got 28.3.6>6. I think yi can really smack you if it sees your motivations aren't really what you're telling yourself they are.
 

willowfox

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"I thought about what I might say in a letter. I asked how things might go if I sent it. I got 28.3.6>6."

Hex 28.3 sending a letter may well cause trouble for yourself.

Hex 28.6 sending a letter is a very big risk and you may well lose something if you do it, so think, is it worth the risk?

Hex 6 conflict, there is a problem with the letter idea so better for you to not to send it.
 

mercury

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ok willowfox -- this is what's confusing me. Does this not contradict the original positive answer about making contact? (or is yi actually saying "no no no, not a letter or e-mail -- try a phonecall or smoke signals instead"?)

I've been interpreting it as a slap on the hand from yi -- that in fact my motivations go beyond simply wanting to make "contact", my feelings are still too strong and that I'm still too conflicted to act with conviction.

Then why the 1.5>14 in the first place? Am I risking something true and powerful by playing it safe, or was that a fluke? (and thanks, btw.)
 

willowfox

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"this is what's confusing me. Does this not contradict the original positive answer about making contact? (or is yi actually saying "no no no, not a letter or e-mail -- try a phonecall or smoke signals instead"?)"

The only thing I can think of is that you either write something wrong in the letter or the letter is intercepted by the husband who then misunderstands your intentions which then causes problems for her. Face to face or telephone.
I would imagine that phoning would be the best course of action, not smoke signals as I presume that you live in a built up area and that may involve setting fire to someone's car, a real attention getter but not really recommended.
 

mercury

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I was thinking the same thing about the smoke signals :)

So you think the original answer's still the one, huh? All this other stuff is just details?
Thanks for being patient and helping me here, willowfox...I know I'm worrying this into the ground. I just don't want to screw up, and I don't want to act out of delusion or wishful thinking.
 

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Mercury,

Just a thought... the answer to the question of whether to contact her was very positive. But that doesn't mean that she will respond to you in the way that you want. It might mean that you will finally get the slap on your face that you need to snap out of this. It might be that your wife will find out and she will finally divorce you and make you face reality. The result of all this might be very positive but it doesn't mean you will get what you want.

And, what is it that you want, by the way? You mention in one of your posts that your ex gf probably wants to 'be a straight arrow' now.. does that mean that you want to make an unfaithful wife out of her? You say you are willing to sacrifice your happiness for your wife's well being but the truth is you wanna have it both ways. You can't have it both ways.
 

beithe

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slap and tickle

ok willowfox -- this is what's confusing me. Does this not contradict the original positive answer about making contact? (or is yi actually saying "no no no, not a letter or e-mail -- try a phonecall or smoke signals instead"?)

I don't think the Yi is contradicting itself. I do think that a phonecall as opposed to a letter or email is like tossing the coins. You don't know who will answer or what the reception will be and it seems that you need the up close and personal of a voice. If her husband answers...what would your reaction be and how would you handle that scenario? I have a feeling it would be far different than if she answered the phone. Maybe you need to "hear" him as a "real" person. Not just knowing him as the amorphous "pesky new husband". In this case the phone call is chance.

I have always been told "never put on paper what you do not want the whole world to see" or maybe "have proof of".

that in fact my motivations go beyond simply wanting to make "contact", my feelings are still too strong and that I'm still too conflicted to act with conviction.

Initially 1.5>14 is saying "nothing wrong with calling up an old friend and saying hey how's life treating you?"

You keep hitting the nail on the head...your motives are not to just call and say "hey" maybe you are hoping for an epiphany where she says that her marriage is wrong and if you pick her up at the corner in ten minutes you can go away together and live happily ever after.
So maybe now the Yi is saying "if that is what you are thinking you are in for a fall" 28.3.6>6 and all the others that seem contradictory. You have to take your principles and ramp them up far beyond the place they usually are. Be open and ready to accept whatever place the coins fall. This is about you having to close a door. I don't believe that you should feel as though you have "lost" if you don't call because this will have a way of bringing your inner life to order. Doing this "call or whatever" you choose to do may cause trouble in her life. it all has to do with motive(28.6)

This is what I would do if it were me.
Meditate (really, really meditate) on what you want from this contact. What are your hopes, dreams, expectations? Then write the letter. Write with no intention of doing anything with the letter when it is finished except burning it. Write from the "top" of your mind, think of it as "Dear Mrytle" and free association of whatever Mrytle means to you. Write it all. Passions, regrets, blame, positive and negative...all of it. Then ask the Yi to help you see this honestly (however you would frame this question) what you really want. Then read it. I think you will discover things you didn't know or 'want' to know that you were thinking. And I think you may end up burning it. Be willing to make the sacrifice some of these hexagrams allude to.

This "Mrytle" has no idea what your going through right now.

I think that this is why the Yi said "go and make the call" because then you are dealing with another human voice,concrete and unavoidable,you are tossing the coins and waiting to see which lines they come up with. And maybe you already "know" and this is why you can't bring yourself to do it.

I wish you luck mercury. Being on the horns of a dilemma is never enjoyable. I hope my rambling helps you clear your mind. You must be exhausted :brickwall: from doing this.

beithe :)
 

beithe

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does that mean that you want to make an unfaithful wife out of her? You say you are willing to sacrifice your happiness for your wife's well being but the truth is you wanna have it both ways. You can't have it both ways.

lightangel is right. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I didn't know you were also married...I haven't read all the relationship threads as yet.

Maybe you should be asking the Yi "what is lacking where I am " or "Why have I become obssessed with making contact in another place" The answers to those questions may give you the answers you need to the other questions.

It will also allow you to "fix" (?) whatever is lacking. Sometimes when we feel less interest in a relationship our partner is not the only one who is "lacking" we are usually "lacking" in a big way ourselves.

There are two sides to a coin remember... yin and yang.:D

beithe
 

Trojina

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I'm prompted to relate this just in case in might be useful, maybe its not applicable I don't know anyway.....

A friend of mine suffers periodically from pretty debilitiating depression - he at least knows the signs of its arrival now but he never used to. The most major sign one time was always that he would start suddenly obsessing over contacting his ex girlfriend who had married since he ditched her. I wasn't wise about the root of all this and he would come to me endlessly asking me if i thought he should call her or not. I just said what others above have said - if he called her at least he'd know the truth or not of his fantasy that she was the best thing ever and he'd been wrong to let her go and maybe even he could get her back. I think he did once and she was just polite and he actually felt no further forward. When he was better from his depression he said he hardly ever thought about her at all. IOW his hankering after her was purely a symptom of his depression.

I think depression can come masked in many guises, though I'm no expert, but its just possible all this you are going through has really nothing to do with her ?

On the face of it it doesn't seem a feasible relationship - shes married, you are married, you have no reason to think shes unhappy and wants you back - and your're scared to contact her to find out if this is true or not, if she is happy or not. Thats the bottom line. I can't see the use of you questioning the Yi any further not cos I think its wrong or anything but because I don't think the Yi is useful in reality avoidance. Seems to me you have got to the stage where to move forward you either need to call her or decide not to, as others have said. Well of course you can go on asking Yi as much as you want but .....

I'm starting to think maybe shes irrelevant in all this, its your own state of mind that needs attention. I think I see the 28,3 and 6 as about your mind currently being overwhelmed, about you needing to escape this, get out of this way of thinking.

Hope you don't feel patronised, you seem a nice guy, not ready to take offence so I dare say it :eek:
 

beithe

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On the face of it it doesn't seem a feasible relationship - shes married, you are married, you have no reason to think shes unhappy and wants you back -

and yup...what trojan said.:)
 

mercury

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beithe, lightangel, yeah, I know. This is why it's been so hard. I do wanna have it both ways, I know. And I also know that it's not possible. I've bored people to tears already with this saga, so I won't go into details -- but I know how and why I've screwed things up.

Beleive it or not, I've been trying hard to work on my relationship in light of all this, and things have indeed been opening up. I backslid a little and asked yi the question -- why did I ask? I was feeling like I might finally be getting some distance. Or that something was shifting in me. I was curious, more than anything else.

So when the reading came up that positively, my hopes rose: maybe we could finally have some sort of talk about all this, after not ever having had one since things ended? Maybe some peace, a new friendship? Could we at least talk once in awhile?

But in my heart of hearts I know "at least" wouldn't be enough. I suspect that's why the subsequent readings were so cautionary. And I don't wnat to intrude on her new happiness, as much as I seflishly wish I were still part of it. (Curiously, I asked yi what her view might be on this situation and got 36, which intrigued me...I asked how could I best help her and got 18, which confuses me.)

I've also thought, as lightangel said, that perhaps the answer for me is to charge ahead and be FORCED to accept reality one way or the other, even at risk of losing everything I haven't lost already. I've wondered often if it will take that for me to learn whatever it is I need to learn here.

But is yi telling me that that's what would be best for my soul? This is my confusion.

Thanks for your thoughts, they're much appreciated.
 

mercury

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hey trojan, hadn't seen your reply, thank you. I keep telling myself that it's not about her, it's about where I am in life, what I feel I'm lacking in my marriage -- the whole nine. But it was a relationship which lasted a LONG time, and was actually never feasible on the face of it, and those roots go very, very deep.

I think you're mostly right. It's hard to let go.
 

beithe

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But is yi telling me that that's what would be best for my soul? This is my confusion.

mercury.. sometimes the only way to grow is to let the old self go. I think if you really wanted to do this you would have done so, you know, call your long ago friend. I think your inner self knows it isn't a good idea and keeps up the dialogue of should I or....

maybe this is the time for 52 Gen Keeping Still

:)
 

mercury

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Beithe, the constant in the answers I get from yi on my life is just that, the need to let go of the old before everything else flourishes. I know this clinging is the thing holding me back. That's the infuriating thing, I KNOW that's what's going on. And I know it's the perceived lack I feel in my marriage that allows it to keep coming back and enticing me with impossible fantasies and hints of possibilities...

It's kind of like turning an oil tanker around...I feel things changing direction, but it's taking a long time and it's not easy or fun. And part of me still struggles with the hard choices that were made to get things to where they are now. It's the price of living a compromised life. I don't recommend it.
 
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Trojina

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Maybe you've already talked of this here but when thinking of returning to someone its useful to recall exactly why you split up in the first place. Mostly it was for a pretty good reason. With time and distance between people I think one can overlook what was wrong in the first place.
 

mercury

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Hey trojan, unfortunately this was a more dramatic/traumatic situation: longterm passionate affair discovered, marriages damaged, hers ended after we'd both decided to go back and try to repair the damage. She remarried a co-worker two years later; we've never had a talk at length about any of this since it all came to a head.

Sometimes I worry for her and sometimes I just miss her like a lost part of myself. I dont' know how she regards me now.
 

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