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Is the Yi ignoring me? 13.2>1

serinasioux

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Hello all!

I'm a terrible singer. It's so bad that when I am by myself singing along to the music playing in my car I turn it up loud enough to drown out my own voice because I embarrass myself. I hate feeling ashamed of this and I think it is totally unfair that I was born with such an intense love of music and zero ability...but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I have other talents to appreciate. I've been wanting to take some lessons to try and improve at least enough to not be ashamed...I'm not expecting to be a rock star after all. I have speculated that I might be tone deaf as I can only hear out of one ear and the other is so damaged inside that a hearing aid wont even fix it.

I asked "Can I become a better singer if I take lessons?"
13.2>1

I just don't get it. The creative hex 1 should be a good thing right? What does the clan in 13.2 have to do with it? (Ugh, kind of a frivolous use of the Yi, I know.) If it's not directly answering my question what is it trying to tell me?

I asked another question, "Is it possible for me to become a decent singer with practice?"
14.6>34

This one looks good, again I emphasize that I am not expecting to be great, just tolerable. At the end of the day practice could still be fun and it doesn't truly matter all that much if I ever become good at it, I am still very curious about the 13.2 reading though, it seems unrelated somehow. What am I missing?
 

mryou1

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I see two things wrong with your questions here:

1. They're yes/no questions, which the I Ching has a harder time answering.

2. The second one's basically exactly the same as the first one, just reworded.

That said, I'll try to read your first one. I'm reading straight from the hexagram here: On a foundation of good fortune, you act with resolute change that persists (yang), and this leads to a persistance of yang, but with no indication of the future.

I think it's saying that you have some talent within you, and you can work hard with it, and that's good, but the future depends on sticking with the lessons, and there's no indication of how that could turn out.

And the trigrams:

clarity acting through a heavenly path to
heaven persisting

basically a repeat of what I read through the hexagram.

Now the structures:

Fellowship with Men leads to The Creative

Yes, seeking help will bring change. But the change depends on your resoluteness.

edit: and I don't think the I Ching ever ignores someone, but I could be wrong :)

/myinterpretation
 

dragona

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"Is it possible for me to become a decent singer with practice?"
14.6>34
I would say Yi says yes and also that you need to find your inspiration, your own voice. break free, perhaps from your own attitude towards your humble singing abilities?
13.2...hmmm the best I can come up with is that you may not stick with the lessons?

hope it helps some, d.
 

serinasioux

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I see two things wrong with your questions here:

1. They're yes/no questions, which the I Ching has a harder time answering.

2. The second one's basically exactly the same as the first one, just reworded.
yeah you're right, I should know better by now. thank you for your interpretation, you are very thorough! I guess I just need to find someone to teach me now :)
 

serinasioux

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"Is it possible for me to become a decent singer with practice?"
14.6>34
I would say Yi says yes and also that you need to find your inspiration, your own voice. break free, perhaps from your own attitude towards your humble singing abilities?

Reading this instantly made me think of how my own embarrassment could make it difficult for me to let loose enough to be willing to let someone else listen to me at my absolute worst. If I don't how can they teach me to sing better? I would definitely have to "break free" and get over myself.
 
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simulacrum

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Dear,
am sure your music can get better. In India ,people sing in the villages, in different situations, maybe a mother singing out of her love for her child to soothe her to sleep, or sometimes even a father in a somewhat rougher voice! , or sometimes out of the sheer joy while working in the fields.
behind the song there is always a feeling or emotion and if that feeling or emotion is realised then the song is alive. as you are immersedin the feeling you forget yourself it does not matter whether your singing is nice to others ... always the song is more important than the singer.
be the song!....forget your self and what others may think.
Warm Regards
 

dragona

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Reading this instantly made me think of how my own embarrassment could make it difficult for me to let loose enough to be willing to let someone else listen to me at my absolute worst. If I don't how can they teach me to sing better? I would definitely have to "break free" and get over myself.
It is such an common problem, arises out of the respect for the craft..but a good teacher will be happy to teach a respectful student. Go for it :)
 

musico

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I’m sorry I didn’t see this before – I just stumbled across it and felt I wanted to answer. I hope you see it, Serinasioux. I’ve been a singer all my life and have taught singing to all kinds of people, from music college students to those who just want to enjoy their voices, or who have been told that they are ‘tone deaf’ etc. I can honestly say that I make no distinction between them, and there is no ‘better’ or ‘worse’. I enjoy all of it.

All of us sing, every time we speak. Our words go up and down on a pitch. Singing is simply a more refined form of that, with the introduction of a bit of technique to clarify the sound. There is no such thing as a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ voice – there is just your own, true voice. And that is what a good singing teacher is aiming to uncover.

Sadly, most of us learn from an early age that our voices are unacceptable – too loud, too squeaky, too this-that-and-the-other, so we subconsciously adopt ways of damping our sound down. Teaching is about removing the obstacles that prevent each individual’s voice from singing. Sometimes people have a fixed idea of what a voice ‘should’ sound like and in reality are only imitating their favourite singer – all that has to be stripped away, even when the imitation is quite passable.

After 30+ years of teaching, I still find it incredibly moving when a student reaches their true voice. Initially it may only be for a second or two, but it’s unmistakeable – it gives me goosebumps, and often a student will cry that very first time. It’s a powerful connection with your own soul.

Go for it, Serinasioux! Everyone should sing! Find a good teacher who understands Bel Canto, and just relax. Enjoy.
 

yxeli

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I asked "Can I become a better singer if I take lessons?"
13.2>1

I just don't get it. The creative hex 1 should be a good thing right? What does the clan in 13.2 have to do with it? (Ugh, kind of a frivolous use of the Yi, I know.) If it's not directly answering my question what is it trying to tell me?

I asked another question, "Is it possible for me to become a decent singer with practice?"
14.6>34

This one looks good, again I emphasize that I am not expecting to be great, just tolerable. At the end of the day practice could still be fun and it doesn't truly matter all that much if I ever become good at it, I am still very curious about the 13.2 reading though, it seems unrelated somehow. What am I missing?

Yo FELLOW MUSIC LOVER! :D !

these responses from yi are so positive. You can definitly sing. cos everyone can. absolutely everyone. Music is one of the oldest 'memes' us humans have. Just check out some of the lines about music in the yi! the oldest book in existence! Kids start singing before they can talk! they clap their hands and dance like noones watching! usually in perfect time!

another name for 13 is likemindedness. This i think points to the fact that 'we all can sing' . Your a member of the clan, the human race, after all! ;)

Line 2 is berating you for thinking your different then the rest of us. Your just seeing how **** a singer you are, your 'factionalising' your thinking. You, yourself, are creating a barrier by saying 'i'm ****. theres no way i can sing. im not like everyone else'

Six in the second place means:
Fellowship with men in the clan.
Humiliation.

There is danger here of formation of a separate faction on the basis of personal and egotistic interests. Such factions, which are exclusive and, instead of welcoming all men, must condemn one group in order to unite the others, originate from low motives and therefore lead in the course of time to humiliation.


Music is A UNIVERSAL RIGHT. I'm a musician, so im slightly biased here, but i doubt theres one human being on earth, unless their actually deaf, that can honestly say that music is something they can live without. Its as old as the race.

and one translation of 14.6 is 'reaching for a new canvas, (singing tutor) he does not cease to expand experience' (http://www.biroco.com/yijing/Language_of_the_Lines.pdf)

get out there and sing! its your birth right!! :)

Yx
 

singingtatsujin

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Hi, I currently writting a blog about how to become a better singer and I think you may interested in it.
http://singingtatsujin.com
 

meng

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I find it too hard to be purely objective about this, and I'd like to offer what I've learned from New York's Grand Dame of vocal coaches. But first your readings.

I asked "Can I become a better singer if I take lessons?" 13.2>1

Better? Is Bob Dylan better? No, he's just creative Bob Dylan. Was John Lennon better, or just John Lennon? Is Bruce Springsteen a better singer? Mick Jagger? Technically, none of them are great vocalists, they are simply their creative selves with the guts of a dragon. Odds are, all have taken vocal coaching at one time or another in their career.

I asked another question, "Is it possible for me to become a decent singer with practice?"
14.6>34

Absolutely. Great? I've no idea, but decent, yes. The voice is an instrument, just an extremely personal one. Learning to play it involves developing the components, and it involves the ability to GRAB with your voice what you hear in your head. That takes lots of practice for we mere vocal mortals. It takes work, and a good coach can teach you exercises. When my manager asked what I thought about the result of this grand lady's coaching, I responded with "She opened me up like a can." She was in her 80's and coached some of the greats. Some of her exercises seemed really silly, even embarrassing, until I started nailing parts with full steam. A friend said I lost the intimate softness from building my voice up, so I had to work at getting that back, as well as being able to belt out a song. I think this fits Yi's answer well.

If you're serious about wanting to be able to decently sing, a good vocal coach will help you get there.

side note: My innate voice is weak, and I'm back to not being able to carry a tune in a bucket.

side side note: My coach addressed pitch in a number of ways, but my favorite was when she'd ask, "do you know where your shoes are?" Yes, I'd answer. "Well, where are your shoes?" she'd ask. They're in the closet where I'd put them. "That's how you find the note with your voice, by knowing where it's located in your closet." Strange but that really helped my pitch. And for a powerful attack on a note, she'd have you toss a tennis ball in the air, and GRAB that ball as it dropped, with a FA! la la la. The embarrassing part is when you send the ball flying across the room, along with your pitch. She'd give you a clean pink rubber ball, popular for stick ball, to wedge your jaw open with, to stretch it. She'd have you wrap your tongue backwards around a pencil like a snake. Then with just the tongue wrapped pencil, singing your favorite songs, till the tongue gets so tired it feels numb. When you remove all that and start to sing or speak, you sound like a different person. Your diction is crisp because you've pulled your tongue out of your throat and the tongue is agile, strong and quick. Of course it returns back to being all lazy and slack, or pulled back from being nervous, but with lots of practice it's quite amazing how much stronger a singing, and a speaking voice as well, can become.
 
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stuart

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I think that the line 13 -2 suggests that those of exceptional singing ability have if you like formed a clique.
if you are not up to their level your excluded. Look at x factor this is the line of Simon's exclusive little group.
 

serinasioux

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I wanted to add an update to this thread though it was posted a looong time ago.

I actually ended up playing the Cello of all things. I didn't really choose it either, it sort of just appeared out of nowhere and chose me. It was an instantly passionate love affair that has continued for the last couple years.

I did take a couple voice lessons and learned that I basically don't have the capacity to make loud sounds except in short and sharp bursts. Singing was never going to be my thing but in trying I learned that my intonation is actually pretty damn good! (contrary to my belief that I might be tone deaf)
 

Mira72

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Hello serinasioux,

As a person who never ever sang, who only had a thin voice...etc...and a lot of inhibitions around singing to being transformed into absolutely beautiful soulful angelic heart moving singing, (and now not so much at present), I would say, don't curb yourself....but feel your way into a song. All the advice especially encouraging you is valid.

I am glad the cello found you. Music is the food of the gods. And the voice in particular is an instrument of actualizing truth and authenticity. Just for this alone singing is helpful...and who cares whether it is for the consumption of others or not?

My humble two cents.
 

serinasioux

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Hello all,

Sorry for coming back to this so long after the fact but I had forgotten that I posted this question!

As it turns out, I picked up Cello. I wasn't looking for it, it sort of just found me and I have to say it was love at first bow-stroke! I did attempt a few singing lessons after I had playing the cello for a year or so but I found that I lack power. I smoke, and my lungs don't have much capacity so singing was actually kind of painful. My intonation seems to be pretty good despite being half deaf which is something I wouldn't have guessed at all.

Thank you to everyone that answered my questions though I am coming back to this so long after the fact. I ended up moving to a new city and the time since has been somewhat dramatic in its up's and downs leaving me with not much time to spend on the forums.

Best Regards,

Serinasioux :)
 

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