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Job resignation Part Two

franka

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Hi Everybody, thank you for all your input :)

This is Part Two; I have a meeting scheduled with my soon-to-be Ex Boss following my resignation which he has brought forward unexpectedly (which follows with the last hexagram combination I recieved 5 - waiting, changing line 6; unexpected guests going to the preponderance of the small.

Anyway I asked the I ching 'How should I prepare for this meeting and/or what should I expect?'

The I ching responded with 48-The Well with changing line 6, to 57-The Wind/Gentle penetration. The translations seem to suggest that knowledge be uncovered and that there was a need for sincerity and to help those who need to learn.

This is particularly galling for me, given the experience I've had in this job where one person particularly has blocked and attacked me (metaphorically) constantly during the time I've been there.

This is the background of the situation -

The job all started to go wrong when I developed a new, very simple process of making an experimental material for the project that I'm working on, which replaced the outmoded method that everybody was using which was unreliable in the extremem, time consuming and which was hideously expensive (and which they had been struggling with for over 3 years). This person who is shown favouritism such as I have never seen before, totally dismissed my method so that ultimately it wasn't taken up. Had this person been able to figure out what my method was, she would have claimed credit for it, and pulled it off as well because of her 'favoured' status within the group. However, I never gave her that opportunity.

Because of a collaboration with another group, the requirement for this material has been significantly increased but of course, now I'm leaving, the responsibility for producing this now falls on this obstructive person's shoulders. She is more than aware that the old method is not capable of producing the quantities of material that will be required of her. So now, it's rather essential that they begin using the method which I originated, but which was not only dismissed out of hand, but which they even wanted to block me from using. - The problem being that they can't use it because they have no idea how it works.... And of course, because it was considered to be not worthy of taking up, I never explained to them exactly how it works.

So now you can see how 48- 6 - 57 appears to fit into all of this - It seems to clearly indicating that I help them out by explaining how to make the material to help them out of this sticky situation.

You can imagine how incredibly bitter this makes me feel - knowing that by helping them, their research will benefit so much, while I've been basically frozen out of my own job!

Is the I Ching really asking me to help them or am I mis-interpreting it?

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Franka
 

willowfox

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"Anyway I asked the I ching 'How should I prepare for this meeting and/or what should I expect?'

The I ching responded with 48-The Well with changing line 6, to 57"

Hex 48.6 Are you the well? The provider of nourishment, the man with the clever idea that can save this company money and speed up their production line as well. They are now after you, they want the secret.

Hex 57 I think that the boss wants your idea for free, he is calling you in to see if you are silly enough to show him how it works, don't. This idea of yours is a bargaining chip, it is worth money to you. So stand your ground and take the secret with you when you leave if they won't compensate you. Help deserves a reward. Patent the idea if you have to, it is certainly worth money.
 

Trojina

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Another possible way to view it is that the job, even though its had problems has been your 'well' for however long you've been there , the source of your resources, your pay there.

Maybe they are actually going to offer you more from this well, uncover their resources to you, make ammends, offer more money ? I don't know if these is a real possibility or not. You've resigned and i presume you would not reconsider ? Hmm maybe just maybe they may want to entice you back with something they have hitherto denied you. Afterall the line say the well which was covered is now uncovered and if you consider the well as referring to them not you as the source of your income well... Anyway if it did happen they would worm their way in gently (57). Just a thought. :)
 
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franka

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Thank you Willowfox and Trojan for your interpretations -

It's always really interesting when people have two opposite interpretations of the same hexagram. I would be really surprised though, if they did 'uncover' a job offer that they had up their sleeves, and frankly, after the experience I've had there, I'd treat any offer with extreme caution!

The question that foxes me is that the I Ching suggests that I should happily pass over the idea (which certainly has patent potential) to them willingly, even though, logically, it makes NO sense. The translation I read said that even as you give, there will be more to come and seemed to be saying, 'this won't be the last idea you ever have' and suggested that the more you give, the more you recieve.

I even wondered whether it was my refusal to give the idea to this person who obviously wished me ill from the minute she first met me, that caused all the trouble in the first place...However, the I Ching, at the time the idea first came to be, persisted in telling me to keep my 'light under cover' and to 'keep still' and to be 'modest' and 'fly lowly'. when all I wanted to do was go out and tell everyone about it and help people out (and perhaps even encourage them to like and trust me!). So I took the I Ching's advice and stayed quiet and modest.

Which is why I don't understand if the I Ching is advising me now to 'uncover' everything. I am not sure how Hexagram 57 means that he wants the idea for free? Can you explain Willowfox?

..I've always found Hexagram 57 to be fairly difficult to interpret

Thanks, Franka
 

willowfox

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"The question that foxes me is that the I Ching suggests that I should happily pass over the idea (which certainly has patent potential) to them willingly, even though, logically, it makes NO sense."

Pass it over to gain Good Fortune, Money, nothing less.


"Which is why I don't understand if the I Ching is advising me now to 'uncover' everything."

The IC is certainly not telling you to uncover the secret and give it to them for free. It is saying that you have a very good secret that would be of great benefit to their company but it says to reveal the secret you will have good fortune. Well my idea here of good fortune is a share of their fortune, a payment. So when you see the boss and he asks for the formula, which he wants for free(the boss has dark motives, so go armed and you will uncover it, the hidden free issue), then politely explain to him that you know that it is worth a large amount of money, so lets make a deal.
Don't forget, nothing for nothing.

"The translation I read said that even as you give, there will be more to come and seemed to be saying, 'this won't be the last idea you ever have' and suggested that the more you give, the more you recieve."

You have a formula which you can patent and sell not run around giving it away for free.

The "more you give, so the more you receive" sounds like some kind of Buddhist I Ching, steer clear of religious I Chings. They are okay if you are a monk and live in a temple.
 
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luz

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Hi Franka,

A thought just came to me about your situation and I wanted to share it. I don't know how it is where you live or in the company you work for but I understand that many companies have 'intellectual property' rules that would give them the ownership of any patent, idea, etc. that you got while working for them. Your situation is of course complicated in any case because you have not even 'published' your idea within the company. So, I think maybe that would not apply to you, it probably should not apply to you. But maybe it's something to keep in mind...

I do think you should not give them the idea as a farewell present, it does not seem fair at all specially because, if they really want to use it, they were just snubbing you by not using it before and that is not nice.:) Good luck.
 

autumn

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If this were not your first job, then this matter would be very clear to you.

In business, we do not "help". We construct value propositions. You are being given an advice. You are the source (48) of the idea (57). Your position is that you are the superior employee who has been forced from her job. You have value that they are losing. This is how you approach the meeting.
 

toganm

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48 well is between exhaustion (47) and revolution (49). The old method was exhausted and using the well; your knowledge, the job, the tools, the company; you have a new way of doing the task. A revolution.

Line 6 is the sage/fool someone who is not worried with worldly matters. Yet all is intended for the benefit of others. The city moves but the well stays. In this case the knowledge stays and it is usefull for all.

Hex. 57 is the gate for the traveler to enter joyous moments. It is being flexible yet influential. It is yielding inorder to advance. A tree grows two ways downward roots which gives stability, nutrition and upwards via the branches to reach heaven not from one direction yet from many angles. "Success through what is small" says judgment hence it could be yielding for advancing.

As wind it means penetrating,making things move but also wind can be indecisiveness, therefore the judgement talks about seeing a great man. Maybe talking to your friend before the meeting could be an idea.

maybe food for thought

Togan
 

franka

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Hi Lightangel and Willowfox,

The intellectual property rules are, to some extent, an issue here - Technically, the establishment I work for DO have ownership, even if they have acted unethically!

The only way around it is when my Boss asks me to write down a detailed protocol (- not leaving anything out) before waving me right out of the door, is to act daft and tell him that the obstructive person was right to go back to using the outmoded method, because - actually my idea doesn't work after all - that I was mistaken and they were right all along, leaving them in their ignorance..... but is this the 'way' of the I Ching?

thanks,

Franka
 

franka

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Thank you Autumn and Togan,

My post to Willowfox and Lightangel must have just been crossing yours :) Thanks for your for your valued thoughts - Autumn, what you say is very clear and simple, does the intellectual property issue muddy the waters at all?

I am a bit nervous about contacting my friend, Steve at this point, as much because of the IP issue as anything else. I know that he wouldn't want to upset my boss by getting involved in the situation, at this stage of the game, as he knew my boss even before he knew me (it was he who recommended me to my boss in the first place).

My successful friend is more aware than anyone, that the world is village and that you can't afford to upset anyone as you may need them one day.

Perhaps 57, the wind represents the idea, in that it should stay in the ether so to speak, unused (for the time being) - you know its there, you can feel its there, but nobody should hold it or grasp it (or use it).

Does this make sense?

Franka
 

luz

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Franka, I think you should consult a lawyer about this if it comes to that.

I wonder what would happen if you had left without notice.. which is "not done" and could harm your prospects of getting other jobs, but just for argument's sake, where would the law stand if you simply had left without ever documenting your process..

In any case, if that comes up in the meeting, just agree to it and consult with a lawyer before you make any decisions, I think...
 

autumn

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I think both Toganm's and Lightangel's advice are the best taken here. By all means, have a discussion with your friend. He doesn't have to become directly involved to be of great help to you. He can offer his perspective and advice.

Trying to feel out your legal position is a good idea, too, but unforutnately, you don't have whiplash and didn't burn yourself with coffee at McDonald's, so if you pick up the phone and call a lawyer you're likely to have someone put you on a speakerphone, listen impatiently to your story, and then tell you how stupid you are. You should still try this angle, but your friend is most likely the better source of concrete advice because he works within your industry.

As for the question of intellectual property, I doubt it, quite frankly. Were you assigned the task of developing a new process? No. Was your innovation formally accepted by management and implemented as a standard process or policy? No. Then your ideas don't yet belong to the company.
 

toganm

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franka said:
I am a bit nervous about contacting my friend, Steve at this point, as much because of the IP issue as anything else. I know that he wouldn't want to upset my boss by getting involved in the situation, at this stage of the game, as he knew my boss even before he knew me (it was he who recommended me to my boss in the first place).

Your friend was an idea, but since the Yi suggests seeing a great man you may find yourself in a situation requiring counsel.
franka said:
Perhaps 57, the wind represents the idea, in that it should stay in the ether so to speak, unused (for the time being) - you know its there, you can feel its there, but nobody should hold it or grasp it (or use it).

Yes and no the hex is wind above wind below yet the name is not only wind, it is also gentle penetrating. A gentle wind is much better than a hurricane. I tend to think it is the attitude rather than the idea

Togan
 
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rosada

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Your original question here was what your ATTITUDE ought to be when you go to the meeting, not necessarily what you should do. Therefore could the I Ching be suggesting you go to the meeting prepared for the possibility that you may be asked to share what you know? That is, the I Ching is not necessarily telling you to give your secrets away, rather just to be prepared that they may ask you to. Being prepared may mean having an answer in mind, such as, "One of the reasons I have decided to leave is because I was not allowed to develope my discovery here. If I am able to perfect it I agree it probably would be of value to you. Would you be interested in hiring me back as a consultant to work on this? I anticipate it will take me x amount of time and I would require x amount of dollars."

btw, I see 9 as The Valued Employee, so I think your friend will assume you are 5.Waiting to be 9. A Valued Employee. Interesting that the first hexagram is Waiting rather than something more assertive. Like, Waiting to be Valued, as in you doing your job right but not being acknowledged. Perhaps this indicates your friend will understand that the folks at this job did not treat you right and that your experience there was that you were in limbo, Waiting for your services to be Valued. Or perhaps this is an indication that if you Wait abit (that is, don't take another position immediately but go to this meeting where you negotiate for a fair offer for your discovery) you will ultimately be rewarded as a Valued Employee.
Also, I agree you should not just generously offer to share your invention. It maybe this meeting is not about this at all and that they just want to know why you have resigned. If so I think you should frankly tell them about your discovery, but not give it to them gratis. As I write this it occurs to me that perhaps YOUR DISCOVERY is the uninvited guest. You were not hired to make this discovery, it came uninvited.
 

franka

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Thank you everybody for your wisdom,

Thank you very much lightangel, toganm, autumn and rosada for your last posts-

The latest is that the 'meeting' my ex-boss had scheduled for last week - well I'm not sure why this meeting was, certainly nothing significant happened and I was wondering why he had expressly asked for it...however, the very last meeting is this coming Monday and the originator of the original outmoded method will also be there. This is interesting because she has never expressed the least hostility to me, at all, but I do know that she is very smart because she has held her own in this department that I am resigning from for a very long time. It is interesting that she is going to be there and so I threw the i ching asking;

'What should I expect for this very last meeting?
The I Ching responded with 36 - Darkening of the light with moving lines' 5 and 6 which seemed a little ominous!

Then I asked 'How should I prepare for this meeting' and I recieved the hexagram 12 -stagnation with no moving lines

This suggested to me that there is nothing I can do to improve matters and to just 'Darken my light'.

Does this make sense?

Thanks for any light any of you fine people can shed on this matter (as I feel quite physically and emotionally exhausted by the whole affair..)

franka
 

rosada

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36...hmmm..perhaps you can use this opportunity to explain how frustrated you were that while you had this great solution to share with them they were not interested, indeed so opposed to you, you had to conceal your discovery, Darken Your Light.

Likewise..

12...Prepare a talk about how STAGNANT you felt there, knowing you had the info to help them but how you weren't allowed to contribute.

Having said all this I wonder if perhaps the way things are now is for the best. Perhaps it's wise that you keep silent until you connect with an attorney and find out exactly what the legalities are. Perhaps your discovery DOES belong to these folks if you mention it NOW but perhaps there's some legal loop hole where you wait 6 months or something but then go back to them and pitch your product and they have no claim to it. (At which time they will be begging for your discovery)

Please keep us posted!
 
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willowfox

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"'What should I expect for this very last meeting?
The I Ching responded with 36 - Darkening of the light with moving lines' 5 and 6"

Hex 36.5 do not waver and be extremely cautious at this meeting, hide your true feelings here, it suggests that you hide your secret and feign ignorance. Don't be a slave to this company, you are free.

Hex 36.6 those people who are conspiring against you at this company and meeting will lose the game.

Hex 37 through perseverance you can succeed at this meeting, so after this company has hurt you the best idea is for you to go back to a better place/company.

"Then I asked 'How should I prepare for this meeting' and I recieved the hexagram 12 -stagnation with no moving lines"

Hex 12 they are conspiring against you, so stick to what you think is the right thing to do at this meeting, make your decision now. If you don't want to give them the formula, then don't, stay firm. If they offer you some 'super' deal like your old job back plus a bonus, or even a promotion, do not be tempted because it would expose you to danger and lots of trouble from your co-workers and bosses. I would imagine that once they have got the formula out of you, you would soon be resigning/fired.
 

franka

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Hi everybody

I thought I'd tell you about the I Ching's take on emailing my friend Steve about all the goings on at work - I suspected that I should wait until I' m well and truly finished with the people at work but I just went ahead and asked anyway. I got

55:Abundance with changing lines 1 and 4
to 15;Modesty

I read this to mean - Yes! Go and do it, now!

I was writing him an email - put everything ever so carefully so that a) I didn't seem like a failure, b) I didn't seem totally wet and c) just contacting him so that he'll have pity on me and give me a job, so that I appeared to be quite cheerful and upbeat about it all and definitely NOT going on about how badly they had behaved towards me.

But before I sent it, I threw the I ching again (because somehow, now, I don't trust myself not to sound like a complete idiot and I felt like I'm speaking in the dark, if that makes any sense) and got

15:Modesty - changing line 5

to 37; Obstruction

Oh No! I thought, I've had quite enough of those lately!

So I went off and thought about something else then came back and asked the I Ching if I should just be myself with him, tell him how it is, and not worry about what he is thinking of me - (It's been quite a while since I used to work with him or have even seen him and a lot of water seems to have gone under the bridge since then, e.g.. he's now very successful, earning potfuls of money and I'm now unemployed. However, he was always a really good friend and we were always able to have a good laugh/moan together and buck eachother up when we were frustrated).

The I Ching came back with;

47; Opression, changing lines 1 and 2
to 17; Following.

Needless to say, I haven't emailed Steve yet -

I'm not sure it it's telling me to just write everything as is or whether its telling me to hang on a while until I feel a bit more upbeat about everything.

WHY is it so hard to understand the wisdom when you need to understand it the most!!

Is, what the I Ching is advising, screamingly obvious to everyone else?

Franka
 

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