just friends or more?

[dragona]

Hello:bows:
I would need a quick reply if possible-
What X actually feels about me? 49.3 >17
What does he want to be to me? 13.1,2>44
Trying to mend ways with a man and not sure if we will end up wanting the same.
I was told I am pushing but I need to settle my mind.
Thank you:bows:

 

[arabella]

Hello:bows:
I would need a quick reply if possible-
What X actually feels about me? 49.3 >17
What does he want to be to me? 13.1,2>44
Trying to mend ways with a man and not sure if we will end up wanting the same.
I was told I am pushing but I need to settle my mind.
Thank you:bows:

I never know in a reading like these whether the Yi is speaking for the person enquired about, or for the enquirer. Let's assume that the first casting though can be seen as a reading of this man's attitude [of course, you are aware this is considered unethical by some on this website to ask how he is feeling?].

If I read this as his attitude, I would take 49.3 to mean that he can't/shouldn't/won't be pushed or forced. If he can't follow you because he wants to and because it is obvious to him for his own reasons, then it's a lost cause. He'll do what he pleases, and only when he is ready, is the message I get from this.

Maybe others can read the second casting as an indicator of his feelings about you, but it blares out a message directly for you in my estimation. I'd read the message something like this: that what can be a congenial situation could also be squashed by insistence that this is something else, by your demands for a definition prematurely. Let it live, let it breathe, see where it goes. To me this is a warning that by trying to categorise and trap this guy with what you propose are his emotions [and how can you know for sure?], you could lose your connection to him. Go into your meeting with him with no presuppositions and without "rules" in your head of how this has to be. Let it be what it is and you will give this the greatest chance to develop. There is a beauty in letting him find his own way. You'll know the fact of the matter soon enough.

 

[precision grace]

here it is quickly so apologies if it's all wrong:
49.3 - I think he just feels he wants to get to know you, get your pulse

What does he want to be to me? 13.1,2>44
Well this is an odd question and it seems to be saying that he wants to start something with you 13.1 and 13.2 is about not putting restrictions or definitions on something, as if he just wants you to take him as he is, although 44 is about the strong woman one should not marry (why the hell not anyway stupid bloody chauvinistic chinese people excuse me, I hate this line) so maybe he wants to be a great passionate affair to you?

Hope this helps?

 

[dragona]

So kind of both of you to reply this quick
I have never thought I would reveal my personal problems in an forum nor I would be in a situation like this one now. Still trying not to say too much but the background is such that I was wooed by this man for months and finally when I started to fall for him, he had problems, I pushed, he left. I took it hard, felt it a final drop over the brim to depression. Now he is back with his conditions, as if I asked for it.
Of course I am glad and feelings are back but now we are "friends"? I want to discuss the issue in order to soothe my mind and go calmly on, but it gets avoided.
I am not feeling well enough to harbour more tensions in my life, so I need it sooner...

Both answers are talking about him, I believe, and I wanted a clarification from Yi if not from the person himself.
If I read this as his attitude, I would take 49.3 to mean that he can't/shouldn't/won't be pushed or forced. If he can't follow you because he wants to and because it is obvious to him for his own reasons, then it's a lost cause. He'll do what he pleases, and only when he is ready, is the message I get from this. - very true arabella

PG, perhaps 44 is saying I am pushing too much while he wants to keep it more superficial, not framing it in any way? It is a unwanted twist - he seaming to want now what I wanted before.

Just askedWhy there is no romatic approach? Hex 10.6 into 58
I understood this as a need not to disturb the calm surface of the new born situation(lake) by carefuly conducting himself, acessing the situation and my past behaviour. This should be rewarding, Yi says
Would be great, no more of these boring questions

 

[precision grace]

dragona, I really feel for you, it's horrible situation to be in. 10.6 talks of the whole course that was trodden and Bradford says something about you've already won or rather something about coconuts. Anyway are you sure of your feelings and what you want to do about them with this man? Why does the issue get avoided? Are you not able to talk things over? Also it can't be easy with both of you having problems individually. I really hope you can find a way to talk things over because I know how awful it is when you are just not sure what is going on.

want to discuss the issue in order to soothe my mind and go calmly on, but it gets avoided.

try and find a way to do this. Good luck and :hugs:

 

[dragona]

Oh, it this was the only problem in my life...just because it is one too many, it bothers me so because I choose to put most of my energy into this and too much is never too good..people tend to love you more if you tend to give less but at one point in life, one should let love live...or maybe that`s what parenthood is for.

Bouncing to the same tune?

 

[precision grace]

take it from me - getting wrapped up in a guy who isn't interested or isn't straight forward like in your case is totally not worth it. Get out while you can would be my advice..

 

[dragona]

uhm, gotten sad after seeing that this gives such an negative wibe...tried to cut the story short then asked If that is the right man for me or just will be another dissapointment/waste of time? Hex 61.1,3,5 >18
If not bad, I find this to be an interesting answer.

 

[loulisnowdrop]

Maybe 'friends' isn't such a bad thing for the time being?
To summarise your situation... He wooed you and it took you a while to develop feelings. Now you want him and he doesn't want to develop feelings.

If you can be just friends for a while, it may give you both the opportunity to learn more about each other without the implications of romance and feelings.

If you do decide to be friends with him, keep up your own self respect. Remember, he wants to be friends with you because of who you are right? Keep your dignity and be nothing more than a friend to him.

Trying to define something more romantic too quickly may lead to a repeat of earlier mistakes. You can't push or force anybody into feeling anything and trying to do that will only lead to resentment. Prove to yourself what a great person you are, you don't need to prove anything to him.

 

[arabella]

uhm, gotten sad after seeing that this gives such an negative wibe...tried to cut the story short then asked If that is the right man for me or just will be another dissapointment/waste of time? Hex 61.1,3,5 >18
If not bad, I find this to be an interesting answer.

I think it says that if you hone your own instincts about relationship and this situation in particular you will readily see that it is headed nowhere good. Hexagram 61.1 gives me the shivers: the snake in the undergrowth. Something is wrong and you know that. Somewhere inside you are on "high alert" but not letting that come through. 61.3 points to you and the possibilities of just lamenting, feeling bad, or noticing that a scenario that brought you grief before is repeating now. 61.5 -- make way for the good people who reflect your worthy self and put to the side those who don't. This is a big lesson for many and for you right now. The background hex of 18 refers, in my head anyway, to fixing what is wrong. At the very least it seems you have to take certain steps for your own self-preservation. How he responds to that could be interesting if you step back and say, "I don't think so -- not in these conditions ayway."

 

[dragona]

Uh-oh, I don`t like this...
and looks like I have to give more background to it and I don`t like doing that even more. The man choose to re-establish our communications but under his own terms and those would be the same ones I wanted at the beguining of our acquantance. Our communication at first was overwhelming, then ubruptly broken, now carefuly reduced. But lots of water has run under the bridge after that and I feel I am not being asked anything, just to follow....and I need to have it all in the open before I go along openheartedly.

"Trying to define something more romantic too quickly may lead to a repeat of earlier mistakes. You can't push or force anybody into feeling anything and trying to do that will only lead to resentment. Prove to yourself what a great person you are, you don't need to prove anything to him." I think that is his wiew on things and I think now it would be the time of sobering up to our true feelings and possibilities of fulfilling them.
As if it was that easy....too many problems, great distance, health and money...so no wonder I asked having all that in mind, previous to this cast What are our chances of becoming a harmonious couple? 11.3 <19 Did not seem that bad accepting highs and lows as part of life as a whole - if I got it right.

Since my life is pretty gloomy and bleek now, I need more then I can get from this situation, apparently. But since not completely clear on his reasons, it bothers me too much. Perhaps i ask for too much too soon - that is how i have interpreted 61.3 and 61.5 is to stay on that moderated course as we work on things beeing spoiled.
I did not get that impression as you arabella, nor the text was the same..

 

[precision grace]

uhm, gotten sad after seeing that this gives such an negative wibe...tried to cut the story short then asked If that is the right man for me or just will be another dissapointment/waste of time? Hex 61.1,3,5 >18
If not bad, I find this to be an interesting answer.

Actually, to me this seems quite encouraging.
from elsewhere on clarity: "61 talks about inner truth. We know what is going on, we can feel it and know what this feeling is telling us. Line 5 talks about genuine truth, we see things as they are, from within and out. This is a powerful force and it is what is needed to create external unity. "
Have you read Bradford's text on these lines? They seem to imply that there is a need for simplicity, sort of casting off too much prejudice, elaborate ways of thinking about things, and also how perhaps you two may be coming to this with very different view of the world but that this is not wrong.

And obviously 18 is working on what has been spoiled which is clearly needed if you are to have any kind of relationship.

11.3 to 19 talks I think about how everything has ups and downs but to have the chance to experience that you have to take charge 19/approach.

Apart from the reading, I am just so sorry to hear you are so distressed and hope this relationship can develop into something good and happy for you

 

[arabella]

Since my life is pretty gloomy and bleek now, I need more then I can get from this situation, apparently. But since not completely clear on his reasons, it bothers me too much. Perhaps i ask for too much too soon - that is how i have interpreted 61.3 and 61.5 is to stay on that moderated course as we work on things beeing spoiled.
I did not get that impression as you arabella, nor the text was the same..

Hi Dragona. Not sure which text you are using. To me in a situation like this one Hexagram 61 is called in to check on how sincere the scenario is and how good for you this person may be. So far, his approach seems to make you very unsure -- both the way he disappeared and the way he returned -- which doesn't demonstrate a great deal of sensitivity or caring on his part for your feelings, yet a great deal for his own ideas and boundaries. Hexagram 61 is ideally about someone who maintains their composure and quality of behaviour in all circumstances. His quality of behaviour would seem to be subject to question -- or you wouldn't have questions about it. And, the background hexagram is 18, to indicate something "spoiled" or at least not right -- which indicates to me that something has to be changed, redone, for anything lasting to work out.

All of this casts a light on how I would interpret the two changing lines. I don't see them as reinforcements to the idea of sincerity, but as questions about it. Heagram 61.3 is something of a lament, somebody pounding a drum and feeling that the world is turning on them for whatever reason. This, in my mind, is somebody who's already had a couple hard lessons and isn't looking forward to another one. Hexagram 61.5 refers to finding people you can trust, that this is the way to avoid future hurts and problems -- and says that when you find such a person you feel the distinction and that you are instinctively bound to them, in sync with them. Again, that doesn't seem to be at all the experience you are having, so I read the line to say that this is missing and you must have that feeling to legitimise any relationship that is worthwhile.

 

[dragona]

Hi Arabella,
I use: Wilhelm, Legge, LiSe, B. Hatcher, Tuck Chang, C. Anthony...don`t have Hillary`s book yet but I believe this to be the common translation:
61. Chung Fu - Inner Truth
-----
----- above Sun The Gentle, Wind
-- --
-- --
----- below Tui The Joyous, Lake
-----
The Judgement
Inner Truth. Pigs and fishes.
Good fortune.
It furthers one to cross the great water.
Perseverance furthers.
The Image
Wind over lake: the image of Inner Truth.
Thus the superior man discusses criminal cases
In order to delay executions.
The Lines:
Nine at the beginning means:
Being prepared brings good fortune.
If there are secret designs, it is disquieting.
Six in the third place means:
He finds a comrade.
Now he beats the drum, now he stops.
Now he sobs, now he sings.
Nine in the fifth place means:
He possesses truth, which links together.
No blame.

You wrote of some image of a hidden snake, I think.
Line 3 talks about me now, indeed.
Line 5 I think speaks about the future of this all.

 

[hopex]

Hey Dragona

since you have been so helpful to me I would like to give my quick take on this one.
Just instinctive as I have not read through all responses and scan read

49>17 indicates to me that there has been a radical change in him and he is noticing you in 49 or is considering you in a different light - I feel the Yi is saying that your response to this should be to follow his lead 17 - let him make all the running and moves.

The second one worried me - how does he see me? 13 is yes getting together maybe in a communal sense - do you work together? are you gym members? sees you acting together in a group. 44 to me always carries a warning to a woman who may be wanting a serious love relationship. More than once I have seen 44 just being the sexual affair - fun exciting but no more than physical. If thats enough then fine - but to be properly appreciated I would stick to the 17 that Yi offered you first.

44 may also be a further warning not to be the pushing powerful woman (at least not in this courtship phase)

i hope i havent missed something here

(on 44 I was with a friend once who did the Yi and there was a knock on the door and a handsome guy arrived - I asked was it serious she gave a mischievous giggle and pointed to the 44 hexagram she had done on him - it stuck in my mind - it was indeed an affair he had a girlfriend)

 

[dragona]

Hi, hopex, nice to read from you again
Very glad if I was helpfull to you and I hope your situatin is developing to your advantage.
Yes, 49 is a change of some serious nature (if one returns to an connection after a while, must have some idea why) and I was told not to rush with anything which I find both ironic and as puting down from a person who did just that in the past with me.
Soon I think I will know more...

 

[arabella]

Hi Arabella,
I use: Wilhelm, Legge, LiSe, B. Hatcher, Tuck Chang, C. Anthony...don`t have Hillary`s book yet but I believe this to be the common translation:
61. Chung Fu - Inner Truth
-----
----- above Sun The Gentle, Wind
-- --
-- --
----- below Tui The Joyous, Lake
-----
The Judgement
Inner Truth. Pigs and fishes.
Good fortune.
It furthers one to cross the great water.
Perseverance furthers.
The Image
Wind over lake: the image of Inner Truth.
Thus the superior man discusses criminal cases
In order to delay executions.
The Lines:
Nine at the beginning means:
Being prepared brings good fortune.
If there are secret designs, it is disquieting.
Six in the third place means:
He finds a comrade.
Now he beats the drum, now he stops.
Now he sobs, now he sings.
Nine in the fifth place means:
He possesses truth, which links together.
No blame.

You wrote of some image of a hidden snake, I think.
Line 3 talks about me now, indeed.
Line 5 I think speaks about the future of this all.

Yes, the disquiet comes from the potentially hidden "snake in the grass" that is present in 61.1; the feeling that you need to keep your wits about you, eyes and ears open, because not everything is at it should be to instill trust. What you explain of the setup with this man suggests a disquieting plan or direction that you aren't in on. Since you are both presumably adults -- what is this "plan" that you as a grown woman can't know about? Why should you follow somebody with no explanation of what is up?

To find an apt description of this snake image, refer to LiSe, yijing.nl

 

[dragona]

Gosh, you hate him :demon: good to have you on MY side you could be a good advocate, you know...
I do know something of his future plans, he informs me preferably of good things.
"Both presuming adults" I like that but you have to add frustrated, middle aged, unhappy stubborn adults..kinda changes the image

 

[arabella]

Gosh, you hate him :demon: good to have you on MY side you could be a good advocate, you know...
I do know something of his future plans, he informs me preferably of good things.
"Both presuming adults" I like that but you have to add frustrated, middle aged, unhappy stubborn adults..kinda changes the image

Actually, I have no personal feelings about it at all so please don't project that onto what I've written. "Presumably" means I don't really know how adult anybody can really be in a love situation; people rarely are all that rational. And, of course, it is all entirely up to you how YOU feel about it anyway. I'm just reflecting what I think you are saying against the images thrown up by the Yi Ching. And even if you say, well I don't care, I'm trying it out to see where it goes, this is all your choice and none of my business whatsoever. This is your life to learn what you want to learn.

The thing about the Yi is that while many people are introduced to it as a fortune telling mechanism to read their destiny, in my mind it's really more about the variables you face and how you can maximse your situation and take most from it. On that basis, I'll read back what I think I can see against the question you have posed.

The Book of Changes says that we can change ourselves; not just that the world is changing and we must adapt. We can do that today, tomorrow, a decade from now. When and how we change, what risks we take to learn the lessons we want to learn, is all up to us. But what we cast shows us the shortest distance between two points, I think, if we want to take up the challenge to make the most of ourselves in this very situation.

 

[dragona]

I was joking, of course...that is why I put my readings out here anyway, to learn of and through YI.
And I do take your opinion in serious account, make no mistake about it.

 

[arabella]

I just don't want you to act, thinking I have a personal opinion what you should do. Reading from the Yi is pretty dispassionate I think and you have to weigh all of what you know and the experience of those who contribute here and meditate on all of it. That's what I do when I post anyway. :bows:

 

[dragona]

I certainly don`t think like that, please don`t get offended. I was trying to lighten things up before I talk to the man.

 

[arabella]

Oh gosh no -- no offense taken! Just to clarify.

 

[hopex]

TO RECAP

what are his feelings about me

49 to 17
he has changed as discussed wants you to follow his suggestions

what does he want to be to me?
13 to 44

he wants to be in your world and be your stud (sorry)

61 to 18

says inwardly you know the truth that this needs to be worked on its been spoilt

sounds like a load of old grumpy ol man an woman'ism kids health usual life nonsense.
hope you feel better soon

maybe better to ask Yi - how best to handle this man/situation while i am feeling burdened???

 

[arabella]

In the archives there are loads of question suggested by the experienced that surpass "how does he feel" enquiries and a sticky by Hilary on this subject as well. Jesed -- if you search on his name -- had theories on this and guided many people in enquiries as well. As I recall: "What is the future of this relationship"? and similar were strong recomendations of his. And there were many other suggestions of pointed questions that would bring a more particular response.

 

[hopex]

Hi i am not too sure how this thread has developed - but dragona
seemed to describe a very busy life - feel a bit like that myself

children work money health lots on - so I hope not to offend just feel
i have been asking more than responding and hope to cheer D up a
bit :bag:

 

[arabella]

Hi i am not too sure how this thread has developed - but dragona
seemed to describe a very busy life - feel a bit like that myself

children work money health lots on - so I hope not to offend just feel
i have been asking more than responding and hope to cheer D up a
bit :bag:

We all add whatever we can in support of each other There are no "right" answers that's for sure.

 

[dragona]

Thank you both ladies for your support :hugs:
A bit under the weather now but also have to admit that I am not pleased with how things are developing in this situation; gotten really offended and currently wondering if it would be the best to part ways (51.3,5>49)

Arabella, you interpreted very accurately how I am wanted to be and act but following someone`s lead without much explanation of why and to where I am going or how it works for me is not the way I can be at peace with. So I need to ask some direct questions and doing that always makes me feel uncomfortably pushy and not very stylish, I guess. :bag:
Asking how somebody else feels I found to be legitimate since I felt I was not getting an 100% honest answer.

Hopex, he should want to be a stud muffin (sorry ) but not all men are made of a dough sweet enough, sadly.
Very surprised with myself (and him) that did not loose patience completely yet.
Perhaps it is because of the influence from the YI.

I am completely lost here and since lost my original reply, writing by memory at an very late hour but just had to send you a

 

[arabella]

Thank you both ladies for your support :hugs:
A bit under the weather now but also have to admit that I am not pleased with how things are developing in this situation; gotten really offended and currently wondering if it would be the best to part ways (51.3,5>49)

Arabella, you interpreted very accurately how I am wanted to be and act but following someone`s lead without much explanation of why and to where I am going or how it works for me is not the way I can be at peace with. So I need to ask some direct questions and doing that always makes me feel uncomfortably pushy and not very stylish, I guess. :bag:
Asking how somebody else feels I found to be legitimate since I felt I was not getting an 100% honest answer.

Hopex, he should want to be a stud muffin (sorry ) but not all men are made of a dough sweet enough, sadly.
Very surprised with myself (and him) that did not loose patience completely yet.
Perhaps it is because of the influence from the YI.

I am completely lost here and since lost my original reply, writing by memory at an very late hour but just had to send you a