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Life after death?

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sooo

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With the recent question/answer concerning our old friend Martin's whereabouts, I dared to approach Yi on the general subject of "life after death"? By life, I mean consciousness, awareness, continued presence of individual identity. Rather than being deferred back to my own present, as has sometimes seemed to have been the case before, when I have asked such delicate probing questions, which may seem to be hidden behind an impenetrable veil, like saying it's none of your business, yet - even the Buddha is said to have avoided such questions - I received a very thought provoking answer: 25.3,4,6 - 63. In fact, Yi may still be saying it's not yet any of my concern (line 6?), but one can find other possibilities as well, including some which can support various spiritual beliefs, such as karma: "for one without integrity there will be suffering", "without pretense, worthwhile to persist"; there's even room to ponder the resurrection, since some simply rest in peace, or possibly exist consciously in their state of now-ness or be-ness, in peace. One might find "the unexpected" aspect of 25 to be intriguing (as I did). It seems quite evident of 63's place in this answer, as the question reference: after completing this life on earth, there is, or isn't... etc.

I've asked this question before, pertaining to the condition of departed friends and family, with varying results. Some answers were daunting, yet given the nature of that individual, it seemed to make sense, and did not seem to contradict the generalized above reading. Yet I want above all not to pass judgment or reach absolute conclusions, nor to offend loved ones of those departed with my own interpretations, so I'll refrain from sighting specifics.

I asked if even posting this might be inappropriate, thinking it possibly a 25.6 thing to do, but received 11.1,3 to 7 as an answer. I find it a thoughtful and confirming answer: "confirming and reciprocating heaven's and earth's natures", and so I post it here for those who wish to contemplate it.

Tai,
Bruce
 
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Bruce,

I recently asked the I Ching a question and got 63 as the final changed hexagram.
I was using an online page with Virtual Yarrow. Do you know the Oracle of the Sun page by Lise Heyboer? http://www.yijing.nl/index.html When I read what you said ...
It seems quite evident of 63's place in this answer, as the question reference: after completing this life on earth, there is, or isn't... etc.
... Life and death seemed to make perfect sense to me as I recall what 63 said on her page.

Check it out. Especially the part of the equilibrium of nature. http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/index.html
(Not sure if this link will work to direct you right to hex 63)


My own way of saying the same thing as the site, and applying it to your situation:When something changes, nature's way is to keep everything in balance. When someone dies or anything else happens for that matter, the place/people/etc that are affected, will like nature, change and adapt. Also, that person's soul has changed. They were once physical beings with a name, and a location on earth. Now they are different. Different how, we do not know. But we know that they have moved and changed forms. And not only them, but you as well, will have to adjust to the new balance of things.

I see it as at a football game where everyone in the stands is doing the Wave. Or when someone lifts up a corner of a sheet in the breeze and the whole sheet is rolling and flowing in the wind. Everything is linked and so everything adjusts once a change has occured.

If there is all of a sudden a lack of a certain vital fish to a lake.. The lake will have to adapt. This might mean it will dry up eventually. This might mean a different sort of fish will inhabit the area. Either way, the landscape will shift and change.


I hope this helps with 63.


Take Care,
Courtney
 

anemos

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its a lovely, peaceful answer. That was my first impression. The journey still goes on without entanglement, was the first thing came into my mind. Grossing the river seems not as the end of the journey, just a milestone.

a question aroused from your reading is whether Yi answers to your actual questions, or talk about "life" In a way, it describes what is "life", I f what I'm saying makes sense.

Intriguing reading. Thanks for sharing
:bows:
 

anemos

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in a farewell ceremony a 3years old child was present. He said in the most convincing way, " he is not dead, he is an angel flying in the sky"
 
S

sooo

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Bruce,

Do you know the Oracle of the Sun page by Lise Heyboer? http://www.yijing.nl/index.html

LiSe's Yi translation and commentaries have been on my go to list for around a decade. :bows:

My own way of saying the same thing as the site, and applying it to your situation:When something changes, nature's way is to keep everything in balance. When someone dies or anything else happens for that matter, the place/people/etc that are affected, will like nature, change and adapt. Also, that person's soul has changed. They were once physical beings with a name, and a location on earth. Now they are different. Different how, we do not know. But we know that they have moved and changed forms. And not only them, but you as well, will have to adjust to the new balance of things.

I see it as at a football game where everyone in the stands is doing the Wave. Or when someone lifts up a corner of a sheet in the breeze and the whole sheet is rolling and flowing in the wind. Everything is linked and so everything adjusts once a change has occured.

If there is all of a sudden a lack of a certain vital fish to a lake.. The lake will have to adapt. This might mean it will dry up eventually. This might mean a different sort of fish will inhabit the area. Either way, the landscape will shift and change.


I hope this helps with 63.


Take Care,
Courtney

Very nice. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Courtney.
 
S

sooo

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its a lovely, peaceful answer. That was my first impression. The journey still goes on without entanglement, was the first thing came into my mind. Grossing the river seems not as the end of the journey, just a milestone.

I've traveled through a number of belief systems with sincerity, and have also a healthy amount of skepticism regarding those journeys. It's answers like 52 unchanging, 21.6 - 51, and 1 unchanging, which provoke this question in me each time. It leads me to believe that there is no single applicable answer for everyone, and the conditional factors, as seen in 25 - that big "if" - plays an important role in some answers received. Yet there seems also continuity, even if individual conditions may be different in each case.

While I'm in no rush to find out for myself, part of me is like a child, anticipating the unexpected with a certain joy and peace and excitement - yes, as with life :bows:.

But, if the surprise turns out to be the loss of my consciousness altogether, or if my individuality is consumed altogether by collective consciousness, then I respect that just as well. I welcome the unexpected and heaven's will, regardless.
 

anemos

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While I'm in no rush to find out for myself, part of me is like a child, anticipating the unexpected with a certain joy and peace and excitement - yes, as with life :bows:.

.

that is a very 25>63 way :)
it fits with line 25.6. Like Yi says "its a surprise. I'm not going to spoil it" ;)

I have not fixed ideas of life after death, but by observing myself I have noticed that sometimes I'm embracing or being less/more sceptically about different pov. I guess, I'm not looking for the one and only answer , but for the one that comforts me. This is why I found impressive Yi's answer or no-answer .
 
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goddessliss

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When I was a young girl I fell pregnant to my boyfriend, Greg. Somehow my mother talked me into breaking up with him thereby giving me no support to keep the baby so consequently our baby girl was taken away from me at birth and adopted out.
Ten years later Greg died at the tender age of 30 having no other children.
At the time of his death his mother told me she did not know about the baby until after it was all said and done and she told me if we had turned to her for help she would have given us all the support we wanted - I know this to be truth because she had already done this for her own daughter.
About 18 months ago I reconnected with this baby girl who is now in her 30's and then with Greg's sister who only last Christmas told her mum that we had found mine and Greg's daughter.
It has been a very slow and heartbreaking process so far and I was hoping I would not only see the Greg's mum again but hopefully she would get to meet his only child.
But Greg's mum died yesterday and I am totally heartbroken but this thread has helped because of these words -

" in a farewell ceremony a 3years old child was present. He said in the most convincing way, " he is not dead, he is an angel flying in the sky"

It is always interesting to see where some of the threads take us and who them actually really help.
xx
 

Tohpol

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What a great thread. Thanks Bruce.

I always like these questions. I've spent a lot of my spare time in life trying to understand what may lie waiting for us all after we breathe out our final breath and I have asked a few questions to the Yi on this subject over the years."I don't know " seems to be a very good H.25 way of summing up something that can't be placed in a convenient category of knowing at this puny human perspective. Yet, I think we can gain some tentative clues and signposts as to what might be out there / in there.

For me, probably the most accurate description of the afterlife comes from Robert A. Monroe and his trilogy: Journeys out of the Body, Far Journeys and Ultimate Journey.

I mention these books because they seem to dove-tail so beautifully into ancient wisdom and perennial philosophies the world over. But they are obviously framed in a very modern and scientific way. They made an enormous impression on me when I first read them individually and then again one after the other a few years ago. Something just went "click" in my mind and I felt overcome with recognition. Very important to read ALL the books in order otherwise, it can be confusing. And it often takes a few reads to really "get it" at a deep level.

Language - as Monroe constantly mentions - is so limiting in this field of enquiry yet he was extremely successful in creating new words to describe feelings, sensations, thoughts and actions that have no direct human equivalent. How can there be when you are a travelling sphere of consciousnesss?

His linear description of the various non-linear, non-local states of consciousness and belief can be found on the online version of Far Journeys on pp. 243 - 247.

I asked the Yi how accurate was R.M's description of the after life from Far Journeys?

Hexagram 63 unchanging.

Pretty good I'd say.
 
S

sooo

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It's even more than a slippery slope. More like a cone shape, where the slope is completely around you. To dematerialize is more than a spiritual thing, more than a scientific thing, even if it is just the dematerialization of an entity. If the end is what is, than it must be.

What is lost,
what is gained,
what doesn't matter?

What part of doesn't matter matters enough to return to it again and again?
 

pocossin

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Does anyone through out of body experience ever see anything that they don't already know?
 

bamboo

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Does anyone through out of body experience ever see anything that they don't already know?

I wonder.....

Emanuel Swedenborg , who was a scientist I believe, wrote extensively about his out-of-body experiences and described realms upon realms of alternate realities, angels, 'heaven' and 'hell'...

Stuart Wilde did as well, although I think because of his flippant and irreverent sense of humor, he is not taken as seriously
 
S

sooo

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not out of body but..

My grandfather told my grandmother while en-route to the hospital in an ambulance, as he was dying of a heart attack, "Marie, I see angels!" She said, "you're seeing hallucinations from the medication they give you." Both comments so much fit their living personalities, my grandfather a traditional Roman Catholic, my grandmother a skeptic.

Shortly before my father died, he excused himself from speaking to those in the hospital room, and was talking with his mother, father, brother and sisters, who had passed over and were there to greet him and accompany him there with them. A couple of nights before, they appeared together to me while awake in bed, and though silent, told me they were there to receive my dad.

When I was young, 12 or so, I dreamed of dying while battling incoming kamikazes, and drowning; everything turned gray, then black. I awoke in a long hallway, sitting on a bench and waiting to be called to God's judgment. My name was called, and I walked down the long hall to God's throne. He was massive man-lion. I began speaking to him, rationalizing how I was actually a nice guy, even if I had committed a lot of venial sins. My self promotion was suddenly interrupted by God's Great Voice, who was not at all happy. Like thunder, "You think that you are good enough for my heaven?" Mde the hair on my spirit body stand straight up! (Think of the lion and the Wizard scene, when the Wizard began shouting at them.) Things went gray and then black. I woke alone in hell on an eternally burning log, but it seemed fake, man made, and so I didn't trust it. After thinking, God wouldn't leave me here with no way of escaping, a white spiral stairway to heaven appeared behind me. As I climbed high up, a voice inside began cursing God, and saying "I knew I could do it just by thinking it." That must have pissed God off, before things again turned gray to black, and I re-awoke back in that dark place, sitting on the same log. Then I woke up again in this universe.

Of course I have no way of knowing whether these were real or imagined experiences. As a boy I watch lots of Victory at Sea WW2 documentaries, and was raised with Roman Catholic teachings. As a dreaming adolescent, I was entering a war zone of sorts. A few years later, when I was assigned my first battle station aboard a USN ship, it was exactly as in my dream: a first loader on 3x50 anti-aircraft gun mount. Don't you know, that felt spooky as hell? But alas, no planes to fight off, only lots of drills and shooting at drone tails and floating barge targets.

These days, I'm inclined to view this life as a bardo state, and sorta expect existing in a subtle form (near zero matter) as another bardo zone, just as dreaming is another bardo zone. The difference is the physical brain/CNS. Was there something, an entity, that powered that bodily system? If so, then that entity is most likely to go on, after the gross matter (of the simulation) has been abandoned. And by virtue of its nature, will regather mass and density, and will again fall to or attach with earth, or an earth type existence. Maybe from an infinite number of possibility. The creative in search of the means and way. >~~~~~~x====x-:mischief:
 

rosada

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Thanks for posting the Far Journey connect, Topal. Compelling read!
 
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goddessliss

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As my work allows me to 'speak' to others from the other side a lot of the time - sometimes I have to be very careful to stay present in that moment when speaking to them and not bring my own thoughts into it. Sometimes this can be very tricky but I love finding out things that there is no way that I would know and people being in awe of it. Not from my ego but because I consider it a great honour to be able to pass on the information at a gift for others.
So pocossing question is a tricky one for me. xx
 

Tohpol

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As my work allows me to 'speak' to others from the other side a lot of the time - sometimes I have to be very careful to stay present in that moment when speaking to them and not bring my own thoughts into it. Sometimes this can be very tricky but I love finding out things that there is no way that I would know and people being in awe of it. Not from my ego but because I consider it a great honour to be able to pass on the information at a gift for others.
So pocossing question is a tricky one for me. xx


So you'd class yourself as a medical intuitive? A medium? Clairaudient? Clairvoyant? Trance medium?
 
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goddessliss

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Hi topal

Probably a bit of A medium, Clairaudient, Clairvoyant - information differs with different clients and personally for self I get all of the above but really I just think it's getting information from 'the other side' in whichever way it comes.
Through the recent death that I have talked about on this thread Greg came through and showed me a 'visual of what was going on and gave me verbal information. I then passed this on to his sister who confirmed the truth of what I said. As I said I love it so very much as it touches peoples heart and they tell me how much it helps them. thks for asking xx
 

Tohpol

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Hi topal

Probably a bit of A medium, Clairaudient, Clairvoyant - information differs with different clients and personally for self I get all of the above but really I just think it's getting information from 'the other side' in whichever way it comes.
Through the recent death that I have talked about on this thread Greg came through and showed me a 'visual of what was going on and gave me verbal information. I then passed this on to his sister who confirmed the truth of what I said. As I said I love it so very much as it touches peoples heart and they tell me how much it helps them. thks for asking xx

Quite a big repsonsibility you have there. The quality of the information is so often dependent on the quality of the receiver.

I suppose you're like me in the sense that I've long since taken for granted that death is not an end but merely a transition between one dimension to another. I remember being thoroughly confused as a child when I encountered folks that thought the opposite. I was convinced that we were all "God's dream" and that if He was dreaming us then we had to exist in some place other than here! lol

You might be interested in this documentary:

http://www.theafterlifeinvestigations.com/

It'll be old news for you and it's very sensationalist - aimed at the mass market - but offers some pretty astounding evidence for communications with the "spirit world". It made me cringe at times as it was way too "spiritualist" in it's approach, (table moving seances etc.) and somewhat repetitive. However, if you can sift the wheat from the chaff it has some excellent bits.
 
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goddessliss

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Thks for the link topal - bit much for me really - I just do what I do and you can believe it or not.
I was brought up as a strict catholic girl, Heaven and Hell and all the bs and my oldest son, through his own journey, is a full on Christian and bellieves in this Heaven and Hell thing and says he worries about his 2 younger brothers because they have never been baptised so how on earth will they go to Heaven. : - (

I don't try to convince him otherwise and allow and respect whatever he wants to believe in - I know he and his wife struggle with the 'work' I do and no doubt pray for my soul on a daily basis but I will not allow our different belief systems to bring angst, argument or destruction to our family and so far all we share is Love between us.
For me personally the ones that come through from the other side are just wonderful and a lot of the times terribly funny with great senses of humour.
have a lovely day xx
 

bamboo

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along these lines, and strictly for entertainment, I recommend the recent Matt Damon movie Hereafter. I watched it today and really enjoyed it.
 

pocossin

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So pocossin's question is a tricky one for me. xx

I haven't had OBE, but I have, in a way, had communication with the dead -- a mourning hut experience. Anyone (I think) who has been the primary caregiver for a dying person under stressful conditions will continue to experience the presence of the dead for months after death. You will hear yourself being called in the middle of the night and feel compelled to get up and check even though you know there's no one there physically. Two others have told me they had similar experiences.
 
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goddessliss

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Yes pocossin that sounds about right - sometimes when I have finished the readings the departed are still wanting to 'hang about'.
My exhusbands mother died unexpectedly from a brain tumour in 1998 - a couple of days after she passed she was standing outside our bedroom wanting to talk to me but I told her to go away. She was the real 'dreaded' mother in law to me when she was alive so why would I bother with her now.
Anyway about 7 years later she came again to see me and I said 'what exactly to do you want' and all she said was 'I'm sorry'. But stuff like that has happened to me a lot - sometimes at the most inappropriate times but I don't think they care too much about the timing for us.
So personally I don't need any proof and not that I want to pass over any time soon but I plan to have a lot of fun with our earthly beings when I'm there. xx
 

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