Losing It

[louise]

I was in danger of losing it (my temper) today. I was in a great rage and when I get like that its very hard for me to calm down. So i consulted Yi "advise me on my behaviour towards x".
I expected to kind of get told off for being so angry. I got 34, lines 3,4 and 5 ? The outcome was I lost it anyway. I presume I must have followed line 3 ? I charged, horns and everything. Perhaps i did not have the power of will or restraint to follow line 4 ? Where line 5 comes in I don't know. It certainly seemed beyond my powers to restrain my anger. I can't even sort out how justified my anger was - it was just a blind and overpowering anger. I discussed the issue with friends to minimize the danger of losing my temper, but it did not seem to work. Any body got any clues as to what Yi was advising - or is it obvious ? Tired,sad, war weary, hurricane Louise.

 

[louise]

if i am not here again its because i have smashed the computer up with an axe - unless that ram goes free

 

[suzy]

Louise:

As you know I'm a relative novice. I only feel emboldened to offer this reading because I struggle with my own temper rather a lot, and have received this same reading on more than one occasion.

If I were in your place, I would have interpreted the reading as counseling me to restrain my anger: Align your power with right principles. Do not charge like a goat at a hedge but conserve your energy and refrain from action (line 3). Remember that your cart depends on the quiet strength of its axle, not on the noisy rattle of its wheels, so keep quiet (line 4). Don't charge about like a ram -- sit down and enjoy this pasture (line 5). The relating hexagram of 60 suggests your actual situation -- a flood of power pushed to the limit.

As it turns out, it doesn't seem you were able to follow the Yi's advice. Again, if I were in your place (and I have been!!!), I would ask "what now?"

Best wishes,

Suzy

 

[lenardthefast]

Dear Louise,

Make yourself a cup of chamomille tea, find your favorite resting spot, kick off your shoes and take a deep breath.

I can remember saying "I will NOT react, I will absolutely NOT react" and then she would say something....and I'd react.....thinking all the time "What would Deepak have done, Oh unenlightened One?"...thats me talking to me..

It just happens, maybe your physical biorhythms were at the bottom of the trough.

Sounds to me like you have a 'slush' fund of conflicted emotions concerning this individual.
Maybe its time to re-assess and re-group.

IMHO, anger is never justifiable. That only took eight words to say, and I've spent a lifetime trying to achieve it. So, your human. Thank goodness for that. I just keep this mantra going in my brain"Next time I'll last longer before slamming the door". I'd time myself....shoot for five minutes...make it to a minute....but that was thirty seconds the time before!!!....Hurray, progress...next time I'll shoot for 10 minutes...maybe I'd get to four!....stillll....Progress!!

I hope this helps, 'cause I was starting to think you had the flu or something. ;-))

Namaste,
Leonard

 

[louise]

Thankyou both. Spot on Suzy, only I didn't follow the advice. Its the explosiveness thats the trouble - if i could let a bit of steam off at a time, or express it coherently i might save myself alot of trouble ! A counselor would probably say, sit down with the person and say "this is troubling me etc etc" all nice and dignified, before you reach the stage of anger being explosive. Well I just aint managed the art of that yet. I did try really hard today though - i really did try. The situation was out of my control to some extent - it was someone i let a room to who i felt was disrespecting my space. I reckon I'll buy a trailer and move to America, preferably on a prairie - at least I'd be alone - bliss. Thanks again for your responses - exhausted hurricane Louise

 

[gene]

Louise

Have you broken your computer yet? Sounds like you had a relationship with your computer and it dumped you. (Please understand I am only joking with you. Maybe not what you want when you are mad, but give humor a chance momentarily.) Anyway, we often get mad at significant others because they aren't acting in a way that we think is proper or fair. Remember that they sometimes get mad at us too, but only because they have a certain set of mental rules that make sense to them that might not make any sense to us. So when they tell us what is wrong, we say, huh? What are you talking about? Ever listen to couples arguing in the movies? Usually neither one of them really hears what the other is saying. This often happens because we have an inner set of rules that makes sense to us and is unknown to the other person. I rarely get mad, so some people think I am weak, but they don't understand that I understand more about what is going on around me than they think I do. Real strength is being willing to be generous in the worst of circumstances. Of course, this does not mean we don't hold our own when others try to take what is ours. But there is a place for magnaminosity. Anyway, I very rarely ever get hexagram #34. Out of thousands of readings I may have gotten it 3 or 4 times, so it is new territory to me in a way...I think line 4 says a lot. It doesn't say to just overlook it, but to quietly, and the keyword is quietly go about removing resistances. In other words, in a more subtle, and might I add, a more generous way. Often when we get mad we say things we regret later, and those things are usually never forgotten. Much better to make suggestions that leaves a person with a sense of dignity, and the person can save face. It might be a good idea to ask the I Ching what underlying expectations you have that are not being met, and why you have those expectations. Hope this helps.

Gene

 

[candid]

Here, here, Gene!

Louise,

60 is central to self control. This naturally includes anger. Galling limitation isn?t to be persevered in. Limits are set on the balance of loyalty and disinterestedness. Clinging to something is loyalty. Separating from or to liberate from something is disinterestedness. To be able to associate and disassociate is a matter of will. Clarity is lost once association becomes attachment, and we lose our temper.

During 3, it is helpful to sort out from chaos those elements which can be formed into a cohesive fabric - that which holds together. This is where friends and helpers can play an important role. The blanket is stronger than the thread.

We love ya, (hurricane) Louise!
Candid

 

[louise]

Hi Gene, thankyou for you counsel. As you see the computer is still in one piece - well i am attached to the computer. The person I got mad with isn't a 'significant other', though he sure broke my 'rules' and suprisingly his own, as we normally get on well. I think I will be consulting Yi again this morning. I need to understand precisely what the anger was/is all about.

And thankyou Candid. I hope your eggs are not frozen today and that you have not fallen into the toilet. Love Louise

 

[candid]

Louise - Just thinking how strange that last part of your post must sound to someone who didn't know that I have a new table.

 

[louise]

Hee hee, yeah a newcomer to the site would wonder what was going on there.

 

[bfireman]

Louise-
No bullshit here, just gonna call it like I hear it and I know I don't know much about your situation, but geeeeezzzz, sounds like a little common sense is in order. We've all been there with anger, so you say yourself it was beyond your own powers of restraint... we always have choices, and it seems to me you are learning a lesson here but also lost an opportunity to learn a bigger one. If anger was so overpowering, it was your own choice to fuel it and manifest your "charging, horns and all...". The other "choice" would have been to distance yourself from the situation around your anger to get a broader perspective of what was going on, cuz believe me your anger is your own and noone else's. If you go on blaming "x" for your anger or anyone else for your own shit then you are really missing the boat. Think about it. Not trying to sound harsh here, just seems to me from the tone of your post you are placing blame outside yourself(this perception may be wrong). If this is true then, I stand by what I said, you are missing a golden opportunity to learn a big lesson. If external events, people, situations, etc. have such power over you, then you are in for a very rocky ride, you know. Yi- The book of Changes. Impermanence... If you are continually swept up and away by all that life deals you, life will be very difficult. IMHO, life gives you ample lessons and opportunities to get slapped around and make mistakes. I don't think uncontrollable anger and rage are to be taken lightly or used as an excuse for your personal actions. That's my two cents. You will have many more opportunities to observe your anger and its seeds, see where indeed its roots are. Just be gentle on yourself, and if you truly feel your emotions are beyond your control, well then recognizing this fact alone is a pretty big step for taking further action and making wise vs. stupid choices. Wishing you the best- Brian

 

[candid]

Louise has already stated in a conversation awhile back that she enjoys indulging the "hurricane" once in awhile. I believe she's cognizant of what's really going on and realizes some dark and perverse power moves her to anger. (Just kidding about that last part.) That?s why I think it not a matter of abolishing this aspect of her temperment, just learning to limit it. Anger is a useful mechanism. Its only when its in a ruling position that it becomes dangerous.

 

[suzy]

I just now typed a flaming post in response to the two statements above, but my fingers slipped and I lost it all. Perhaps the Gods were saving me from a regrettable action? So no flame; I will try to make my point more politely:

Bfireman: Louise didn't blame anybody else for her anger. She acknowledged that she has a hurricane of a temper, and that she failed to control it on this occasion. I'm sure you mean well, but your "insights" sound like the self-righteous posturing of someone who has absolutely no idea what it's like to be a hurricane. Candid: your remarks are more kindly meant, but almost just as off-base. You strongly insinuate that Louise is indulging herself -- as if being wired the way she is is something we can switch on and off. As with Bfireman, I'd be willing to bet a million dollars you don't have the faintest idea what it's like to BE a hurricane.

 

[louise]

Suzy, thankyou so much for your last post. You're right.

Part of consulting Yi is surely to deal with your own inner demons. I admit I have demons and thought i could be honest and work through it.

Not many questions posted here ever deal with dealing with ones own faults and inadequacies, but that is an important function of consulting Yi.

I'm not a buddhist/taoist so don't strive for detachment - just maybe a way of transforming the energy of anger into something more positive. After all like 34 says theres alot of power to harness there.

BTW Brian you sound really angry.

Candid I never enjoy 'indulging' the hurricane because the person I usually hurt most is me.

 

[louise]

I just consulted Yi on what attitude to take to my own anger generally and got 40 line 1.

 

[candid]

I was referring to your post about 7 months ago, Louise, and was only repeating what you had said. You didn't use the word, induldge. I believe it was, "I enjoy being the hurricane sometimes."

Anyway, Suzy was right about one thing, my remarks were meant kindly. Sorry it ruffled feathers.

 

[candid]

I stand self-corrected and offer my apology to Louise. The quote was: "I enjoyed the Hurricane Louise bit, very well expressed i thought - it did make me laugh."

 

[candid]

Suzy,

RE: "I'd be willing to bet a million dollars you don't have the faintest idea what it's like to BE a hurricane."

You would lose that bet. (I'll take that in large bills, thank you.) I used to have a serious anger problem and still have the propensity to lose my temper. But, I only can lose it if I insist on persevering in anger. As I've already stated, that's a matter of will - to hold onto it or let it go. And that's a matter of setting limits, consciously, of loyalty and disinterestedness.

One thing's for sure, one angry person can not help another angry person to overcome their anger.

Candid

 

[suzy]

Candid -- I'll have to take your word for it, but I'm skeptical. Your comment about Louise enjoying herself just didn't sound like the words of someone who understands what it's like to have a gale-force temper. But perhaps I misconstrued. By the way, there are many types of tempers, many types of "anger problems." The hurricane type is one I identify with because I have it myself. Just pointing out that while you may have your own issues, you don't necessarily understand Louise's.

 

[candid]

Anger will never disappear so long as thoughts of resentment are cherished in the mind. ~ Buddha

Suzy - If complete understanding was a prerequisite to attempting to help another here, no one would be allowed to post.

I offer no apology for attempting to help, though ingratitude isn't encouraging.

Candid

 

[candid]

Let sympathizers sympathize, and friends be direct and honest. This isn?t mourning the loss of a loved one, unless one loves their own anger.

 

[louise]

Well anyway, thankyou for looking for the right quote Candid -

 

[louise]

In context that was not me saying i enjoyed being a hurricane, but that I was amused by Lindsays writing on it.

 

[hilary]

Someone should just vouch for Candid's meteorological credentials. Once or twice on this forum he's produced/ participated in some mega tsunamis. He's also obviously, spectacularly, hexagram-49-to-50-ly changed. At least, that's how it seems to me. And Candid, I would love to know how it's done!

Maybe like Brian, maybe not, I don't really do anger, at least not of the outburst variety. There are one or two people I was angry with for years before I got it out of my system, though. I think there may be something to be said for the hurricane by comparison.

I like 40, line 1, though. Not that I'm best placed to interpret this, but following through if it leads anywhere, and turning back if it doesn't, sounds very Yi-ish advice. (In other words, beautifully simple, takes 2 seconds to write, and takes a lifetime to even begin to implement.)

Line 1: 'Without fault', pure and simple. And so - I'd say - no self-recrimination and no recrimination either. It sounds like a prerequisite for Release.

I'm not sure why this is Release's Marrying Maiden - anyone? Perhaps that addresses the sense of powerlessness, and that setting out to bring order with 'I will absolutely not react' doesn't work??

 

[candid]

Louise, Buddha's quote supports what I've been *trying* to explain. Not the other way around. Also, I acknowledged and apologized for my error. Yes, your response was to Lindsay and not to your hurricane. My error.

Look, a person can argue all they want in order to justify their feelings, be they ever so unfruitful. I'm not trying to argue with you, Louise, or with anyone. I'm merely pointing to the cause & affect nature of anger.

Hilary, if I understand your last point correctly, the 'do or die' approach to releasing the maiden isn't effective. You're right, it can not be liberated by force. That does not mean our will is helpless to put a stop-order on destructive behavior. Gentleness is a stronger influencer than any punitive measure can impose. It is still the will, nonetheless, which calls up our resources. We are set free by setting our self free, not by insisting our anger is justified.

umm what is, mega tsunamis?

 

[louise]

I liked your interpretation of 40, line 1 Hilary.
What you said about 54 "I will simply not react - doesn't work" seems true for me. Anger must be a signal thats somethings wrong for you - often maybe it masks other feelings such as fear and sadness, powerlessness (54) It must mean you need to change something in yourself or in the situation. The art of dealing with it must be to have enough clarity of mind to recognise its roots and act upon it -articulate, change, deal with whatevers bothering you. I find this immensely difficult -sitting on it doesn't work - denying it doesn't work. Feelings aren't always logical and can be overwhelming. Hence I asked Yi what attitude to take to my own anger problem and got 40, 1.

 

[louise]

Just read your post Candid. No I never did think you were trying to argue with me. But then I've never tried to justify my anger as far as I am aware - only deal with it and understand it. Earlier when I said the situation was out of my control to some extent, I meant I was assiduosly avoiding guests of my lodgers, but as they had the key to my house it proved difficult. Without going into details, my territory felt threatened and I 'charged'. I knew i was in danger of 'charging' and hid away from them for some time, and consulted Yi. The night I posted here, I had sent them away - angrily.
I agree will has a huge role to play in dealing with anger, but alone without some release and understanding its not enough.

 

[louise]

BTW I never was looking for sympathy. To me a question about dealing with anger is just as valid as asking a question about ones boyfriend.

 

[heylise]

Hi Louise
The ideogram of 40 is ´removing the horn´, real appropriate indeed.

I have the impression 40.1 tells you to be a hurricane if you feel like that, but to avoid faults. Blow all the dust off the trees, but do not uproot them. Let your hurricane stay within the limits of the situation, and within the limits of your own feelings, so you won?t have serious regrets.
The character no or without can just as well mean ´avoid´, and IMO it does in most lines where it figures.
I know people who are hurricanes and others who smoulder inside. I prefer the first kind. Even the people themselves who smoulder would rather be hurricanes (me, I am learning. Feels a lot better. I also hurricaned sometimes, but not free and noisy enough. Since I stopped smouldering, the hurricanes improved).

Hex.54 is about adapting to a situation. It is very important in any life. As long as anything bothers you, or as long as you do not give all you have, this life will not be very valuable or happy. Don´t expect this life or yourself to be perfect, just act as best you can. Lame is maybe something like a half hurricane, certainly not the doldrums (is this English?? My dictionary gave me this strange word. Sounds interesting).
54.1 says ´rectify, auspicious´, so it is good to try to improve, or maybe mend things afterwards, but there is no warning and nothing about bad fortune.

Line 40.1 is part of the trigram water: inside fears, deep emotions, not sure it also is anger, but I think so. When this line changes it becomes lake: exchange and joy, or hurting sharpness. And it does not change because it is too yang (active anger) but too yin. So my idea is, it is not the outside hurricane, which is the problem, but something inside. Maybe a deep hurt or so, I don´t know of course, but I think it might be useful to search there, and not to bother too much about some stormy weather.

LiSe

 

[louise]

Thankyou Lise, theres lots I hadn't thought of there.