Love?

[gamer]

Hello

I am new to this love thingie, but I think I am in lurve. I asked the I Ching about this... there is a girl I am interested in but she already has as boyfriend and is my teacher at the moment (but some years younger than I am). I admire her a lot, because among other things she is smart. We don't have any formal or informal relationship at this moment.


Hexagram 1 (lines 3,4,5) -> 41


Does this have a future?. I was thinking in starting some type of relationship wih her (even starting a family), but these hexagrams don't look good.

 

[newlife123]

What does it matter?

Going after a woman who is not available is scoundrel behavior. Would you want some guy doing that to your gal and would you really want to go with a person who would do that to you?

 

[gamer]

Thanks for your reply, I don't see it that way. You don't know if they are a happy couple, nor if there is any serious compromise there. Most boyfriends are afraid of compromises and don't care about fidelity.

Also, marriage is a different thing... If they were married, I would probably just get over it.

 

[schalimar]

I think Hex 1 hides a lot of power, creation, and sexual power.
Maybe you should redefine your attraction for this person. Admiration and attraction, certainly. I believe we can speak about love when we understand someone just at looking into their eyes, but it doesn't imply to take any action.
Love is about freedom, empathy and understanding.
What was your question exactly? You do not mention it... Was it: do we have a future?
Yeah, certainly. But did you ask about any loving future? Did you make any precision? Maybe you should ask the Yi what you should do about this attraction...

 

[newlife123]

Thanks for your reply, I don't see it that way. You don't know if they are a happy couple, nor if there is any serious compromise there. Most boyfriends are afraid of compromises and don't care about fidelity.

Also, marriage is a different thing... If they were married, I would probably just get over it.

Does it matter if they are not happy? Would you like some guy to move in on your girl if you and her are having issues?
.
If all of us acted dishonorably whenever we had the opportunity then sooner or later it will happen back to us. This is your world, is that how you want it to be?

 

[gamer]

If I were in the boyfriend's position and our relationship have reached a dead end... I would prefer someone to come in and force it to a close, assuming I don't have the determination to end it myself. Even better if I don't find out what really happened. It's painful to be in a no win situation.

Many times relationships turn too cozy, when things are not working anymore...

 

[gene]

gamer

If the woman has not given you any hint of interest I would not pursue it. While I do tend to agree with newlife, I would look at this from a practical aspect as well. Women can turn very cold if they receive unwanted advances from a man they are not interested in. Not only can they become cold, they can ruin your reputation and destroy you socially. It is my experience that women are not conciliatory about this type of behavior. They can become very upset.

Now, as far the reading, it tend to indicate this can go either way. Wavering flight over the depths can indicate that there can be "shifting sands" so to speak in this situation. If you allow things to develop of their own accord, then things will turn out the way they are supposed to, but if you push the issue, you are violating the law of "natural development," (hexagram fifty three) and you can bring down a lot of sorrow with this. For this situation you do not need a reading or any kind of crystal ball, but to forget yourself and your desires and see where things go, without trying to create any specific outcome. For as the commentary on hexagram sixty one line two says, "Any deliberate intention of an effect would only destroy the possibility of producing it."

Gene

 

[gamer]

Thanks for your response, Gene. I should have made this clear from the start. She has shown interest in many different ways, even done outrageous flirting with me in the past without getting noticed. The problem is, she doesn't acknowledge it openly and sometimes gets cold about our attraction.

She doesn't want me to force anything, because she already got upset at my advances and even hinted at alerting her boss... Her excuse was that I offended her position as a teacher, but later on she looked in my direction in a very sexual way.

There are lot's of contradictory signals here. She seems like an ethical person but has gone out of her way to flirt with me many times. She is attracted to me but doesn't recognize it.


Note: I am not looking for a fling, but a serious relationship. I really do respect her.

 

[gene]

I would get out of this situation as fast as I could.

Gene

 

[gamer]

Wow, you are making an assertion without having complete information. It's my fault again for not explaining myself well, anyway as you can see it's a very complicated situation, very difficult to understand.

Actually, my past teacher (I am not her student anymore) is not the type you would associate with shady stuff, it's just something weird that is happening between us. Outrageous flirting in class without any of the other students noticing, that's very surreal. It seems almost as a dream.

 

[gene]

Now, I think I am being misunderstood. This is a very dangerous situation. Women can change in an instant. The reading suggests this too, that it can go either way, and you do not want it going the wrong way. I think you are in danger, whether you realize it or not. This is NOT a good situation. Get out of it.

Gene

 

[psychonaut613]

Thanks for your response, Gene. I should have made this clear from the start. She has shown interest in many different ways, even done outrageous flirting with me in the past without getting noticed. The problem is, she doesn't acknowledge it openly and sometimes gets cold about our attraction.

She doesn't want me to force anything, because she already got upset at my advances and even hinted at alerting her boss... Her excuse was that I offended her position as a teacher, but later on she looked in my direction in a very sexual way.

There are lot's of contradictory signals here. She seems like an ethical person but has gone out of her way to flirt with me many times. She is attracted to me but doesn't recognize it.


Note: I am not looking for a fling, but a serious relationship. I really do respect her.

Trust me, I just dealt with almost this exact situation. If a woman acts flirty or sexual or nice to you in any way but won't acknowledge it or even denies it in front of other people, don't walk away, RUN away. You want and deserve someone who can be open and honest. I could tell you more about this evil but don't want to reveal too much in open forum. I got seriously burned recently. Find someone who gives a genuine f*ck about you, trust me...

 

[psychonaut613]

Does it matter if they are not happy? Would you like some guy to move in on your girl if you and her are having issues?
.
If all of us acted dishonorably whenever we had the opportunity then sooner or later it will happen back to us. This is your world, is that how you want it to be?

I have seen so many situations where a girl will make sure she already has a man to move to b4 leaving the man she is with, and, in this case, dishonor cannot be avoided sometimes...
However there are also good women out there...

 

[gene]

I will add one more thing here, then I think I will shut up on this issue. The way the woman is acting shows emotional imbalance on her part, and you do not want to get involved with this. It is extremely dangerous. That also shows in line four of the reading. I think that when we are attracted to emotionally imbalanced women we need to take a look at our own balance as well. This is a dangerous situation. It appears innocent but it is not.

Gene

 

[precision grace]

T
She doesn't want me to force anything, because she already got upset at my advances and even hinted at alerting her boss... Her excuse was that I offended her position as a teacher, but later on she looked in my direction in a very sexual way.

There are lot's of contradictory signals here. She seems like an ethical person but has gone out of her way to flirt with me many times. She is attracted to me but doesn't recognize it.


Note: I am not looking for a fling, but a serious relationship. I really do respect her.

I don't know how old you are (presumably not over 18 because your understanding of women is very limited, but even if this woman IS attracted to you (which, I frankly doubt, no disrespect to you), she clearly does not want to do anything about it other than flirt. So, if you have any sense you will leave this well alone. And don't say later that all of us didn't warn you.

 

[newlife123]

If I were in the boyfriend's position and our relationship have reached a dead end... I would prefer someone to come in and force it to a close, assuming I don't have the determination to end it myself. Even better if I don't find out what really happened. It's painful to be in a no win situation.

Many times relationships turn too cozy, when things are not working anymore...

You're not in his position since you aren't man enough. That's why he has the girl and you don't.
.
If that is how you really feel then stop hiding behind the I Ching and go up to them and tell them what you think. But be sure to first go to the toilet, get some toilet paper and dry your tears.

 

[gamer]

You're not in his position since you aren't man enough. That's why he has the girl and you don't.
.
If that is how you really feel then stop hiding behind the I Ching and go up to them and tell them what you think. But be sure to first go to the toilet, get some toilet paper and dry your tears.

So your unsolicited advice turned to insult... Go and preach to the choir, I don't want to hear you any more.

 

[gamer]

I will add one more thing here, then I think I will shut up on this issue. The way the woman is acting shows emotional imbalance on her part, and you do not want to get involved with this. It is extremely dangerous. That also shows in line four of the reading. I think that when we are attracted to emotionally imbalanced women we need to take a look at our own balance as well. This is a dangerous situation. It appears innocent but it is not.

Gene

Thanks for your contributions, it would be sad if you shut up. But I understand this topic is not very important to expand too much... You already gave your advice and it seems sound.

 

[gamer]

I don't know how old you are (presumably not over 18 because your understanding of women is very limited, but even if this woman IS attracted to you (which, I frankly doubt, no disrespect to you), she clearly does not want to do anything about it other than flirt. So, if you have any sense you will leave this well alone. And don't say later that all of us didn't warn you.

First of all, I didn't ask for your advice. Secondly, your arrogance takes away any merit your post may have. You don't have any idea of who I am or who that girl is. I would suggest you reserve your opinion for yourself, instead of giving a careless and mistaken view of my situation.

You don't know many things, not just how old I am. Also you seem to imply I am somehow incapable of attracting a member of the opposite sex. So you think I need to be a super hunk to get laid, huh?. Nope, it doesn't work that way. Actually, almost anyone can be attractive to somebody else, even a small group of people. BTW, that girl is not a beautiful girl, but rather plain. Yet, she has a lively personality and smarts. That's what made me fall in love.

I won't be able to take your advice seriously, since it is more of a selfish display of "knowledge" than anything else. Finally I would say I prefer to be responsible of my own life rather than depending on outside advice, including bad advice such as yours.

 

[rosada]

Let me see if i understand the story right. You are interested in a woman who was at one time your teacher. You are aware that she supposedly has a boyfriend and yet In the classroom she behaved in a way that seemed flirtatious to you. Now this part I'm not clear on: do I understand that you have already made some invitation to her and she has explicitly told you that she does not want your attention and that if you don't cease she would report you to her superior? Have I got that right? Anyway, to consider your question to the I Ching which I think is, What is the future or potential for a relationship?

1.3 and 1.4 suggest to me that you are hesitant to go further but 1.5 seems to encourage you to take a chance.
41. Decrease however makes me think not much can come of this.

In view of your saying she has already told you to back off it reads to me like the I Ching is reviewing for you what has already happened - you took a chance but were told to Decrease.

I think the friendship doesn't have a future.
But I don't see any of this pointing to you being a scoundrel or she being evil!

Best wishes,
Rosada

 

[gamer]

She has been flirting with me since we first met, for an interview. I was the one presenting it and I was accepted. Things got really out of hand in class (group games, this provided a cover to the flirting) and when I shared my feelings with her, she came up with the boyfriend stuff. But she seemed bothered by the admission as if she didn't want to be with him.

Now her position as a teacher makes it really awkward to talk with her, but every time she rejects me, she feels as if she is lying of being unfair to me. I don't know what to make of this situation.

Thanks for your positive asessment of both of us. Do you see love in the future?. LOL.

 

[rosada]

Are you asking if I see love in the future between the two of you or love in the future for you period? I think the I Ching has already told you to Decrease your estimate of what is possible with the current interest but if you are asking about your own life then Yes! Of course! There is always love in the future!

 

[gamer]

Ha ha, you are always so optimistic, thank you. I have an alternative interpretation for you to consider:

Maybe the I Ching is pointing out that the open attitude of giving her a love letter and sharing my feelings (overt approach) failed. After she read the love letter, she told me she already had a boyfriend (she is not happy with) and was not willing to start another relationship. I kept insisting with emails and she finally reported me to her boss (he is friendly). Since it's a small fault (not sexual harassment), it probably won't be a big issue. She painted it as the end of the world.

It's possible the I Ching is suggesting to use a decreased approach (subtle) to win over her, using the lines of least resistence, before making our relationship open to everyone. What do you think of this interpretation?

The I Ching:

Hexagram 51 -> 2 (This looks good)

 

[rosada]

51.1 Shock and then laughter: She reported you to her boss but thankfully you got off easy.
51.4 Shock is mired: Unfortunately you did not learn from this and are still stuck in delusion.

2. Receptive
You should now do nothing to initiate further contact. If she is interest she will call you, and then you can be Receptive.

Meanwhile I feel I owe Newlife an apology.
Rosada

 

[gamer]

You seem to be disappointed about what I said, what is it that I don't learn?. It doesn't seem clear if you want to make a moral argument about something, or you just disagree with my interpretation.

Newlife was just hijacking this thread... I don't think you owe him an apology.


P.S I agree with your interpretation as well, it's not incompatible with mine. Except for line 51.4.

 

[rosada]

How do you interpret 51.4?

 

[newlife123]

How do you interpret 51.4?

I know you are not speaking to me but traditionally, 51.4 basically speaks of overcoming self destructive behavior.
.
The Shen Shuo line 310 says:
.
"The cowardly and meager are the beggars of life.
For they wait upon the offerings of others and seek contentment in scraps and dregs.
Glorifying them as sacred, dressing them up with illusions, denouncing the superior as being merely equal.
Casting fantasies, cursing life with nihilistic anger
And in the rarest case: accepting the consequences of their inability to attempt heroic action."
.
If you get this line it would represent you current stage of life or state of being you are in.

If my Chinese and English were both better I would translate the whole book.

 

[hilary]

Newlife, did you get my private message? Please reply if so.

 

[hilary]

(Aside:

Forum policy: it's an I Ching forum, so posts here should all be discussing readings, not personal opinions of other members. Please refer to this thread.

Thank you, Gamer and Rosada, for taking this thread back to discussion of readings. Please don't let this post of mine distract you from that!)

 

[Trojina]

I know you are not speaking to me but traditionally, 51.4 basically speaks of overcoming self destructive behavior.
.
The Shen Shuo line 310 says:
.
"The cowardly and meager are the beggars of life.
For they wait upon the offerings of others and seek contentment in scraps and dregs.
Glorifying them as sacred, dressing them up with illusions, denouncing the superior as being merely equal.
Casting fantasies, cursing life with nihilistic anger
And in the rarest case: accepting the consequences of their inability to attempt heroic action."
.
If you get this line it would represent you current stage of life or state of being you are in.

If my Chinese and English were both better I would translate the whole book.

are you saying line 310 =hexagram 51 line 4 ? It seems to bear zero relation to it. Also as gamer was consulting the I ching not the shenshuo why is it here ?

I just need to clarify if this is a forum for sharing I Ching readings or a forum for just using any oracle that comes to hand ? I'd like to know as I wouldn't want to participate in the latter.