Luck?

[gene]

Pakua

I am not sure what you are asking me. Can you explain a little more? If you are referring to the outside observer, I am merely saying, view yourself exactly as you would anyone else, as if you yourself were just another person. The observer part of you is watching a movie in which you are just one of the actors. I admit, this is not easy, I certainly don't do it all the time. You might look at it this way, observe yourself with total detachment. Also, when meditating, which is necessary to calm the mind, it is nearly impossible to completely stop the flow of thoughts. But if the observer is just observing the thoughts, then the thoughts tend to disappear. You can find more about this in some of Ken Wilber's books.

Gene

 

[martin]

This observing is not really something that you can do or need to do, Pakua. It is already happening.
Something/somebody in us is always watching what is going on, independent of the intent of the personality or the I.
So it's more a question of discovering it than doing it or creating it. But it's quite subtle and such discoveries cannot be forced. Talk about luck ..

Sometimes people suddenly become aware of it when they are in a crisis situation, an accident for instance. They see very clearly and in great detail what is happening from what seems to be a detached viewpoint and it can be like watching a slow motion movie.

 

[martin]

Yesterday I had a funny experience with the "predictive" power of the I Ching.
My chess engine had to play a strong opponent (also a computer) in a tournament and I asked the I Ching how it would fare.
The answer was 47.2. Part of the text of the Legge translation says: "active operations on his part will lead to evil, but he will be free from blame."
Other translations say something similar. I concluded that my engine wouldn't have an easy time (no initiative) but that the game would end in a draw.
I didn't see the game yet (I'm not present at the tournament, it's somewhere in France) but today I heard that this is indeed what happened. The engine managed to get a draw in a difficult position.
The I Ching predicted this before the game even started. How could it have known?

I think that an oracle can sometimes know what will happen because it has in a sense already happened on subtler levels before it manifests on the physical level as events that are "actual" for us.
What we see as the future or the present may be the past for an oracle.

 

[candid]

There's all sorts of explainations as to "how" Yi can predict future events. My own is the image of time being a book. We live in the present page, but Yi has access to the entire volume. Easy for Yi to reference a later page. Not that's it's always willing to do so, of course.

But to be perfectly honest, I don't really care "how" it does this. I'm perfectly comfortable calling it magic.

 

[gene]

Some of this goes back again to hexagram 61. I haven't had time to do a writeup on it yet, but look at the W/B commentary about line 2. "The effect is but the reflection of something that emanates from one's own heart...." With our thoughts we are always creating vibrations and those vibrations match vibrations in the universe. Those vibrations that match ours will be called forth unto us. In this way we create our own reality. I know there are some on this website that do not agree with this, but it is true nontheless. Knowing the vibrational pattern as it presently exists gives the universe a pattern of our likely future.

Gene

 

[gene]

Yly2

One never knows the truth about which government has what in their flying craft. Lately Russia said it had something that would undo anything we had. Do they? Governments lie. But I do know that several countries in the world have technology that is not available to the public, and is in fact, top secret. And I do know beyond any doubt, that a good amount of this technology came alien races. Russia and the United States are always concerned what each other has, same with China, and several other countries. Think what we may the cold war is not truly over. Neither is the world any safer than it was before. Too bad we can't all get busy studying the I Ching. Then governments wouldn't have time to find enemies and make therefore excuses to tax us to high heaven for military armaments. I think most ordinary people, in your country, in mine, and elsewhere could live peaceably if our governments weren't always stirring up trouble. It is too bad.

And back to the I Ching. This goes back to hexagram 61 a bit, and also to eastern, and esoteric christian philosophy. We all have an ego of sorts that sees itself as guilty. (I wrote about this yesterday, somewhere) The ego tends to project that guilt out onto others, so that we always see the problem as being the other person. Therefore, Capitalism and communism project out onto each other their own guilt complexes. Republicans and Democrats do the same. There is always some "devil" out there, that we have to fight against because it is causing our grief. East and West the same problem. Historically, almost every country has thought every other country was a bunch of barbarians. It is not so much true anymore, though old beliefs do linger in some circles. But there was a time when China and Japan thought each other barbarians. But they thought the Westerners were even worse barbarians. The west tended to think the same thing. Tended to think they were so superior. Left to just the average man, though, once again, we could so much easier just get along. The ancient Ninja of Japan believed that we all have a shadow self. That shadow self may be somewhat like what the west thinks of as an ego. At any rate, it can trip you up. There is an old saying, "every thief wants to get caught." It is because our shadow self always eventually betrays us, unless it is honored and accepted. There is also the old saying, "In order to be a true warrior, one must explore the darkness also." We need to know ourselves. Then we will know the vibrations that we emit, and "the crane calling in the shade" will find its young.

Gene

 

[prynne]

Gene, Yly2, Martin, Jeanystar, Pakua, Candid, Bradfor....d. I have enjoyed this thread, I am leaving for a while, and will not be in contact wil the computer.

blessings to you all, and to you Gene, gnostic soul.

 

[yly2pg1]

"Thoughts are things. When we become cool, calm, collected, relaxed, we are thinking positively even down in the subconscious mind, this brings those conditions to us. This is what confidence really is, it is not the arrogance that many seem to mistake it for. Arrogance is only a coverup for fear.

There are only two forces in the universe. Love and fear, and they are opposites. You either attract what you love, or you attract what you fear."

That reminds me of an inspiring encounter with the 'invisible guest' in the book "Grow Rich! With peace of mind", by Napolean Hill (1883-1970) Chapter 12.

 

[yly2pg1]

"Russia and the United States are always concerned what each other has, same with China, and several other countries. Think what we may the cold war is not truly over. Neither is the world any safer than it was before. Too bad we can't all get busy studying the I Ching. Then governments wouldn't have time to find enemies and make therefore excuses to tax us to high heaven for military armaments."

The world will never be at peace even when everyone learns Yi. It is an ancient truth. A sad one!

The elements of fear, mistrust and ego are always overwhelming in the domain of cultural difference. The root of each culture is traced to an 'independent' civilization respectively, seemingly unrelated! The Sumerian, Hebrew, Yi to name a few (Not sure about Maya, BTW).

The world is an illusion!
Each nation is virtually a proxy to his Godfather!
The Nagas in the old Middle Kingdom is a good example. The Naga(s) is still an unassuming voice in China NOW!

The conflicts btw nations will go on.
While the 'top' has its own agendas and ballgames,
advice to the human races at the bottom, "do not rock the boat" in all occasions.

 

[yly2pg1]

"I do believe I would say Gnostic Christian.
In truth though, I consider myself more a gnostic christian buddhist taoist."

A belief beyond 2100!

 

[gene]

I've enjoyed this thread.

Hurry back Prynne

Gene

 

[yly2pg1]

Somethings learnt here about some rough mechanics of 'Fate [Ming4] rewrite'?

(1) Preordained Mental Schema (by birth).
(The mental schema underlies the habitual domain, individual inclination
and tendency)

(2) Hex8.5 (openness)
The openness for new experiences and truths to enter and assimilate.

(3) Hex61.2 (resonance with 'vibration pattern of thought')

(4) Undergoing processes (of negative entropy) with sustained effort
(e.g. staying in Dao/Tao, meditation etc), an exercise of reversing
the habitual mental pattern.

('De' is relinquished during the processes for the restructuring of schema rather than
the trade-in for other well beings in material world or Good 'LUCK'?)

(5) Renewed Mental Schema (dictated by the vibration pattern in Hex61.2)

An on-going, spiral and repeating process, dictated by the functionality of time.


TQ! Good luck to all.

 

[gene]

Yly2

How are you defining schema?

Thanks,
Gene

 

[yly2pg1]

Like the one by Edgard Morin.

Good to start with 'Mental representation'.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jacques.nimier/pagea22.htm
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jacques.nimier/pagea27.htm

Definition for schema:
http://tip.psychology.org/schema.html

 

[yly2pg1]

By Buddhism definition, the 'schema' is very near to the term 'vinnana'.

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/ddsa/getobject_?HTML.a.0:12585./projects/artfl0/databases/dicos/philologic/pali/IMAGE/

 

[pakua]

"There are only two forces in the universe. Love and fear, and they are opposites. You either attract what you love, or you attract what you fear." "

Hope you don't mind some skepticism here... I used to believe that, whole-hog, but now I'm not so sure.

Don't we all know some kind gentle souls, who somehow have attracted a bad situation? Are we saying, below that peaceful, kind veneer, there lurks some big fears and/or angers? And then there are SOB's that seem to get away with a lot of badness.

Are we saying a kind loving person can walk through the darkest part of town without coming to harm, simply because they have no fear?

I think if it was that simple, people would actually be able to use those books that claim to show how to attract wealth, simply by using mind and attitude.

 

[pakua]

Gene,

WHat I meant to say was, one is moving and acting with 100% involvement in whatever one is involved with, fully immersed with one's Tao. How does one observe at the same time, without reducing that 100% focus? Is it just a question of training (I think that's what you're implying?) I think meditation is a little different, you're already focussed mainly on observing, without having to interact with the world.

Martin,

Are you saying it's not a conscious observing? I always thought it was, so that one could have that overview of the self. What value does it have if it's not conscious?

 

[martin]

The observing that always goes on, is conscious, Pakua, it is awareness.
And awareness is always crystal clear. There are no degrees of awareness.

If we feel that we are not fully aware, not fully awake, not clear, clouded, it is because we are aware of a clouded inner state and confuse that state, the object of awareness, with awareness itself.

It's like being in a fog or in the twilight and thinking that there is something wrong with our eyes.
Once we recognize the fog or the twilight as an object we realize that we see it very clearly. There is nothing wrong with our eyes!

 

[pakua]

Hi Martin,

I'm not sure we're talking about exactly the same thing.

In your example, "Sometimes people suddenly become aware of it when they are in a crisis situation, ...They see very clearly and in great detail what is happening from what seems to be a detached viewpoint and it can be like watching a slow motion movie. "

You imply here that it doesn't always go on, consciously.

Say I'm watching a movie. Sometimes I get really involved, as if I'm the character and feeling everything he feels. I lose all awareness of my surroundings. Sometimes I pull back and watch the actors acting, the director's directing, etc. But then I lose the involvement. By a great effort, for a little while I can do a tiny little bit of both at once. What I want is everything, to be involved and to be aware

I love listening to music, and being aware of a number of instruments at once and how they interact with each other. Stereo sure was a great invention!

I tend to think of awareness as a gradually growing kind of thing, gradually becoming clearer and clearer, like waking up, or the fog slowly clearing.

 

[martin]

Hi Pakua,

The awareness that is always there is intimate. It's not like the "objective" observing from a distance that we learn in our schools.
There is space between here and there, between me and the computer screen before me for instance, but this space is experienced as a connection, not as a separation.
The same is true for everything else that is seen, heard, etcetera. The intimacy is never disturbed. It's like here and there are two ends of one stick. Hence there is no problem with involvement. Involvement is part of awareness.

Does this make sense?
I would like to say more, about how we manage to be unaware of awareness

, about gradualness and so on. But I have to postpone that, the intimacy of my bed is waiting.

 

[pakua]

There are large numbers of people who seem to be unaware of anything except sports, beer and the oppposite sex (not that there's anything wrong with that!), but then gradually a dim light glows, and some of them may become aware of more subtle things.

Maybe I should use the term 'focus' rather than awareness. In my movie example, it seems quite difficult to focus on more than one thing at once, to be both completely engaged and observant at the same time.

Another example, say I do a reading about a coming situation. Then I enter the situation. If I try to fully engage with the situation (with whatever focus I can bring) while simultaneously try to maintain awareness of the overview (what's going on in the larger picture) in the back of your mind, I find it quite challenging. If I focus too much on the overview, I lose touch with the situation and don't repond appropriately, and vice versa.

I suspect this isn't possible by mental control or ability alone, so how to do it?

In your "crisis" example above, it seems it takes extra-ordinary effort to accomplish the two things at once, and then it's lost again after the crisis ends. But I think it can be learned too.

 

[yly2pg1]

Years ago, a monk taught me a way to START meditate.
He told me this method is taught in a monastery in Thai where
a number of western monks reside. Some concepts of 'note', 'awareness'
and 'focus' can be found in the method.


The method consists of a few steps:

STEP 1:

'NOTE' the 5 mental obstacles:
sensual desire
hatred/anger
anxiety/restless
sloth/torpor
doubts

The yogi starts by noting each obstacle (if they exist).
AWARENESS of ONE obstacle at a time until the obstacle (e.g. anger) subsides.
Once the mind gets clearance of all these obstacles,
the mind is to be swifted gear to step 2.


STEP 2:

Now the yogi 'NOTE' his physical setting.
Does his body feel any pain? any physical discomfort?
AWARENESS of each discomfort at a time until the sensation passes away.
Once the mind gets clearance of the physical 'absorption',
it will experience a sensation described as 'physical rupture' which is STEP3.


STEP3:

It is a sensation of relief when the mind of a yogi starts to detach from
the body sensation.


STEP4:

Now, the yogi 'NOTE' his own mind.
Be it be feeling, good feeling, bad feeling, neutral feeling, thoughts, flash thoughts, etc. etc.
Just NOTE! Be AWARE of each feeling, each thought, anything, one at a time.

There will come a point when the mind become clearer and more settled, this mental absorption
process will subside. A kind of 'mental rupture' sets in when mind is at ease and capable of
focusing a target for 'ONE-POINTEDNESS'.


STEP5:

FOCUS at a point of a 'target'.


And again, the whole exercise is a spiral, repeating process.
The more the practice of a yogi, the longer he can sustain and stay in STEP5 and further
to develop 'samadhi'.


(Just wonder if it is helpful?)

 

[yly2pg1]

By Yi's term, this meditation method can be described as:

STEP1:
Hex44.2->Hex33(withrawal from temptation)

STEP2 -> STEP3:
Hex20.5(inner viewing)-> Hex23(physical rupture)

STEP4 -> STEP5:
Hex20.5(inner viewing)-> Hex23(mental rupture)

 

[pakua]

Thank you, Yly2pg1, for your kindness.

I thought the way would involve meditation in some fashion, that it requires one to be in some particular state of mind somehow to act and observe simultaneously.

I'll be saving and using that method. You make it seem so simple.

I'm assuming at step 5, when you say focus at a 'target', you mean something you've chosen to meditate on?

 

[yly2pg1]

Hi Pakua,

You are right about the TARGET in step 5.
Some calls it the 'foundation of mindfulness' ('satipathana' in Pali's text).
There are four foundations of mindfulness prescribed by the Buddha.

One popular method in step 5 is "the awareness of rising and falling in the upper abdomen".