Memorizing the I Ching 30. Li / The Clinging, Fire

[hilary]

One more comment on 30.6 for the pot. This is one of those lines where it seems to me that Alfred Huang thumps the nail on the head:

" 'Kill the leader, capture the followers'... This is to say that one should deal with the root of the problem, not with minor problems."

On several occasions this has fitted the situation very well, where someone was getting bogged down in details and failing to address the central issue. Also, this interpretation/ application survives several different translations and fits nicely with the zhi gua - Clarity in/amidst Abundance (of stuff to deal with).

 

[charly]

One more comment on 30.6 for the pot. This is one of those lines where it seems to me that Alfred Huang thumps the nail on the head: 'Kill the leader, capture the followers'... This is to say that one should deal with the root of the problem, not with minor problems." ... Also, this interpretation/ application survives several different translations ...

Hilary:

I believe that this interpretation survives so much because it closeness to the reality.
Some guys take the advice too literally. Take a look to Ossendowski, speaking about Baron Unghern von Sternberg aka Unghern Kahn:

...The door of the yurta suddenly swung open and an adjutant snapped into a position of attention and salute.

"Why do you enter a room by force?" the General exclaimed in anger.

"Your Excellency, our outpost on the border has caught a Bolshevik reconnaissance party and brought them here."

The Baron arose. His eyes sparkled and his face contracted with spasms.

"Bring them in front of my yurta!" he ordered.

All was forgotten—the inspired speech, the penetrating voice—all were sunk in the austere order of the severe commander. The Baron put on his cap, caught up the bamboo tashur which he always carried with him and rushed from the yurta. I followed him out. There in front of the yurta stood six Red soldiers surrounded by the Cossacks.

The Baron stopped and glared sharply at them for several minutes. In his face one could see the strong play of his thoughts. Afterwards he turned away from them, sat down on the doorstep of the Chinese house and for a long time was buried in thought. Then he rose, walked over to them and, with an evident show of decisiveness in his movements, touched all the prisoners on the shoulder with his tashur and said: "You to the left and you to the right!" as he divided the squad into two sections, four on the right and two on the left.

"Search those two! They must be commissars!" commanded the Baron and, turning to the other four, asked: "Are you peasants mobilized by the Bolsheviki?"

"Just so, Your Excellency!" cried the frightened soldiers.

"Go to the Commandant and tell him that I have ordered you to be enlisted in my troops!"

On the two to the left they found passports of Commissars of the Communist Political Department. The General knitted his brows and slowly pronounced the following:

"Beat them to death with sticks!"

He turned and entered the yurta. After this our conversation did not flow readily and so I left the Baron to himself.

Ossendowski: Beasts, men and gods.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2067/2067-h/2067-h.htm

Little difference: inmediate death for leaders, delayed death for the other. Too much close to the real for me.

There are other means for saying «deal with the root of the problem» although it may be a good meaning granted in the context of many given consults.

Yours,

Charly

 

[lightofreason]

For ANY hexagram, line position 6 is ruled by hexagram 23 and so a focus on issues of pruning. What is chaff to some is wheat to others.

The given interpretations cover this generic sense of 'pruning'.

 

[dobro p]

A lot of sixth lines have 23-ness built into them, but not all, I think.

For instance, 50.6. There's no pruning, or stripping away, or 23-ness in sight, I think. If you want to talk about this at any length, we should start a new thread.

 

[lightofreason]

A lot of sixth lines have 23-ness built into them, but not all, I think.

For instance, 50.6. There's no pruning, or stripping away, or 23-ness in sight, I think.

I beg to differ -

IC+ 50.6 - Line 6 -
Things have been refined and are ready for consumption.


Think Dobro. Here we have a situation of the line POSITION being controlled by 23 and so generic issues of 'pruning'. That in a CONTEXT of transformation and so the double emphasis of getting at the wheat.... IOW the influence of 23 is VERY easy to identify.

Transformation turns the raw into the refined, we cook our food prior to eating it and so it is easier to deal with. Pruning covers this in the sense of cutting back to the essentials and so the 'pure' - cooking does the same focus on the 'pure' and that is brought out on 50.6 (with cultivation comes direction, an ideology i.e. 'brain food')

The CHANGE aspect from an XOR perspective is how is 23-ness expressed in 50 and it is through 32 - commitment and so the unconditional focus on refinement at 'getting it done' (the wind base of 32 and 50 cover the focus on cultivation. Cultivation doubled gives us wind in upper and so a 'rising wind' to give us the notion of becoming influencial - see all hexagrams with wind in upper)

you will NOT find one line position 6 that CANNOT be linked to 23 as an influence. Even the focus on line 6 associated with the sage covers this focus on 23 pruning in that the sage removes the chaff to present the wheat and at the same time is 'past' things in that is focused on the future - what is to come next.

At the other end, the realm of the raw, is association with line position and hex 24 - the focus on repetition, rebirth, born again (or born for the first time of a repeating process!), what the hex keeps coming back to etc etc etc

the X-ness material works EXTREMELY well so I suggest you may like to review it in fine detail rather than dismiss it so lightly; it covers a 'vibe', a 'generic' influence that seeds descriptions.

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/introXOR.html

also see the related focus on wave interpretations:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/WaveInterpret.html - this covers the actualisation of line CONTENT rather than position where yangness actualises expression (and so 50 can be mapped to being made up of 23+16+15+07)

GIVEN the expression of a hexagram as a whole, so XOR then extracts the PARTS of that hexagram or more so the expressions of all of the contributors to the hexagram through analogy to other hexagrams - the IC as such is a language with limited representations, a set of classes covering 'all there is' , and local context then grounds such.

As 23 covers pruning so it covers the wheat that is the last bastion of order amongst all of the chaos ;-) -- and so the role of the sage is covered in the position and anything else covering the 'vibe' - this the 23-24 qualities cover the 'prior/post' perspectives often associated with these lines (and then note that 23+24 = 27 the representative of infrastructure and so what is between beginning and ending ;-))

Chris.

 

[angels_goldenrose]

Twin flames

Hi, Just an idea, some thoughts....

Hexagram 30 is two flames- has anyone heard of the concept of 'twin flames' (one soul inhabiting two bodies). I was wondering if this hexagram could relate to it. (if you were asking about a relationship)

Perhapps the two flames of hexagram 30 are two souls (or flames) who desire to unite to become one? for example in a soul mate relationship? (doesn't have to be a romance relationship- could be with a friend etc.) Or perhapps that which unites us is in essence like fire- like two flames they look or appear seperate but actually when you bring them together they are of the same essence and become one.

Also it could describe a relationship where a strong attraction to 'come together' or unite is happening. I mean Perhapps this indicates in a relationship that there could be a soul purpose of uniting?

The two flames are seperated in the hexagram- perhapps when you recieve this hexagram inregards to a relationship (obviously in the right context)- it could advise on how to bring your relationship closer togther - more united but through balance- the two flames becoming one in a harmonious way that suits both. I haven't really looked properly at the changing lines (just new to I-ching) but perhapps they could advise on how to achieve a good balance with a 'twin flame' soul type relationship- or perhapps all relationships?

I think I've just opened up a can of worms lol thats quite a huge topic! and diverse!!!
anyway thats what was on my mind with this hex!!

 

[Tohpol]

I think I've just opened up a can of worms lol thats quite a huge topic! and diverse!!!
anyway thats what was on my mind with this hex!!

Yes indeed. There's another thread with same hex and more or less the same topic over on the shared readings section:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=4948

Topal

 

[spiritualsadhana]

informative post, thanks for sharing