Memorizing the I Ching: 35. Chin / Progress

[dobro p]

I never take 'superior man' as talking about a 'higher status person' it is just a model for ideal behaviour of one who is acting in accord with the flow of the times - it never crosses my mind to think it as any type of person

Yeah, me too, but remember how flexible the Yi is. Depending on the situation and depending on the understanding of the person using it, it *can* refer to an external authority figure (whether that authority is merely one of power or hierarchy, or whether that authority is one of real capacity and higher awareness). I like to keep my options of interpretation open, but these days I usually opt for the inner dimension of the meaning, and take 'superior man' to mean my own higher faculties - higher emotional center which deals in things like compassion and gratitude, for instance, rather than the lower emotional center which deals in things like fear and desire and anger.

So, whether you more self-determining, or whether you're more of a follower who takes their cues from established authority, the Yi's useful.

In this way, the Yi is useful for all sorts of people, at all sorts of levels, for all sorts of purposes, inner and outer.

You strike me as a strongly individual sort of person who is familiar with inner issues, so it comes as no surprise that you don't reach first for the 'higher status person' interpretation. Taking it as 'one who acts in accord with the flow of the times' is a picture of the higher self, which lets go of ordinary ego consciousness and manipulations in favor of witnessing things unfold, letting the universe act through you, accepting it. It's taking a step toward Hex 2 behavior, which is getting up there lol.

 

[rosada]

35.4
Progress like a hamster.
Perseverance brings danger.

In times of progress it is easy for strong men in the wrong places to amass great possessions. But such conduct shuns the light. And since times of progress are also always times in which dubious procedures are inevitably brought to light, perseverence in such action always leads to danger.

A hamster gets into danger through perseverance; the place is not appropriate.

This line is at the top of the trigram Ken, with which the rat and other rodents are associated. Rats and hamsters hide themselves by day and are active only by night. But the line is already in the trigram of the sun, whose light it cannot endure. Sine it is a time of progress, the line mingles with the crowd and joins in what is going on. However, this is not its proper place (a strong line in a weak place); therefore going on in this way brings danger (the line is also the middle line of the upper nuclear trigram K'an, danger).

 

[rosada]

Only memory tip I can share here is that we got a video of Ecuador. We were still flirting with thoughts of possibly moving there. The film included scenes of a lavish banquet:

"Progress like a hamster."

The main dish was guinea pig, and as I understand it, this is often the main dish in that country.

"Perseverance brings danger."

Therefore, I think we've persevered long enough with the idea and I don't need to know anymore about it.

 

[my_key]

35.4
Progress like a hamster.
Perseverance brings danger.

In times of progress it is easy for strong men in the wrong places to amass great possessions. But such conduct shuns the light. And since times of progress are also always times in which dubious procedures are inevitably brought to light, perseverence in such action always leads to danger.

As you are climbing the progress ladder you collect an awful lot of skills, knowledge and abilities which if there is a tendancy to squirrel them away will be wasted. Continuing in this manner will trip you up big time. I also get a sense here of "Jack of all trades and master of none" and "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" - at some point there is a need to settle on one thing and see it through to completion. Especially if you are building a light-house.

Love and Hugs

Mike

 

[charly]

I never take 'superior man' as talking about a 'higher status person' it is just a model for ideal behaviour of one who is acting in accord with the flow of the times - it never crosses my mind to think it as any type of person

Troyan:

Of course, me too. But W/B say «superior man». Maybe they want to say what you think.

It was not my intention to polemize about the JunZi concept but to point that sometimes the less important actors can be the true protagonists. In H.35 the protagonist can be Kang Hou (the Prince) or can be the horses. Why to imagine things about a King that is not in the text?

Maybe you have your own story for H.35, could you share it with us?

Yours,

Charly

 

[rosada]

Good morning and Merry Christmas everybody! I'm just going to squeeze in here and post 35.5, which by the way, I think can be read as a very suitable responce should someone be wondering, "Ought I stick with the diet today?"

 

[rosada]

35.5
Remorse disappears.
Take not gain or loss to heart.
Undertakings bring good fortune.
Everything serves to further.

 

[charly]

35.4 Progress like a hamster. Perseverance brings danger...

Rosada:

from Tony Saroop:

Advancing like a hamster,
Cheekily, and injuriously chewing all -
DANGER.

I'm left wondering how the Zhou knew so much about hamsters. Did they too keep hamsters as pets?
See: http://web.archive.org/web/20020726081746/www7.gateway.ne.jp/~saroop/realsade/yijing08.htm

I go to search for the Harmen page, he is fond of Shaughnessy «Mole Cricket» if I remember well.

Rodents or bugs, both a pest form the economic point of view.

Yours,

Charly

 

[rosada]

Thought I'd post my own summation of the 35. Progress story here.

I'm seeing Progress as being about the easy progress that is possible when people see each other as equals and ideas are allowed to run free. The image of Progress says the superior man himself brightens his bright virtue. This is quite an encouragement to be oneself, speak up, not be waiting for any one to grant permission. Line one always discribes the situation before it begins, thus 35.1 discribes the uncertainty one feels before the sence of group acceptance kicks in. I visualize a party goer coming up to the door, not knowing who will be there, not sure if they are dressed appropriately and yet confident they were invited and ultimately belong there. 35.2 is about this sence of separateness being overcome when people look for what they have in common, like a mutual friend or relation. 35.3 The wonderful sence of belonging that now kicks in, and who cares if they weren't able to make the connection with out a little help from the host or the ancestress? We're all family now. 35.4 Old habits die hard and particularly in this aura of total acceptance our flaws seem to become even more obvious. 35.5 But who cares? What was shameful in private now seems only silly. Take this moment to see the big picture.

 

[rosada]

35.5
Take this moment to see the big picture.

Has everyone seen Listner's post over on Open Space? WoooWhoo!

 

[charly]

35.4
Progress like a hamster.
Perseverance brings danger.

Harmen says:

The shishu 鼫鼠 animal in the fourth line of hexagram 35 is most often recognized as some sort of rat, mouse or hamster. Even in old China there was speculation about the true meaning of this word...
The fact that both 鼫鼠 and 炙鼠 are different names for the mole cricket convinces me that line 4 of hexagram 35 also refers to the mole cricket...

From: http://i-tjingcentrum.nl/serendipity/categories/3-Character-analysis
Search «THE MOLE CRICKET» chapter.

Charly

 

[my_key]

35.5
Remorse disappears.
Take not gain or loss to heart.
Undertakings bring good fortune.
Everything serves to further.

If you want to have a good time ...... Let things flow. Don't try to hold onto possessions, thoughts, emotions or anything. Out with the old and in with the new. Leave behind all your baggage and get out there and start taking some action. If you follow this advice you can't go wrong.

Mike

 

[rosada]

35.6
Making progress with the horns is permissible
Only for the purpose of punishing one's own city.
To be conscious of danger brings good fortune.
No blame.
Perseverance brings humiliation.

Making progress with the lowered horns-i.e., acting on the offensive-is permissable, in times like those referred to here, only in dealing with the mistakes of one's own people. Even then we must bear in mind that proceeding on the offensive may always be dangerous. In this way we avoid the mistakes that otherwise threaten, and succeed in what we set out to do. On the other hand, perseverance in such overenergetic behavior, especially toward persons with whom there is no close connection, will lead to humiliation.

 

[my_key]

35.6
Making progress with the horns is permissible
Only for the purpose of punishing one's own city.
To be conscious of danger brings good fortune.
No blame.
Perseverance brings humiliation.

Hi Rosada

To paraphrase - here's my take on 35.6

When you think you are on a roll you may be tempted to act aggressively or blown your own trumpet in order to make further progress. You may get away with this once in a while, with people that you know who are aware of the success you can achieve. What's more important is that you are aware of what you are doing and correct the behaviour before it goes too far and affects people who you do not know so well. If you start believing your own press then you are going to get knocked off your perch.
A sort of pride comes before a fall type of situation. If you can keep the ego in check / keep your feet on the ground then you are on to a winner, otherwise watch out because, sure as eggs is eggs, life is going to trip you up.

Love and Hugs

Mike

 

[ravenstar]

Some thoughts I've been pondering

In regard to......

35.6
Making progress with the horns is permissible
Only for the purpose of punishing one's own city.
To be conscious of danger brings good fortune.
No blame.
Perseverance brings humiliation.

When I looked at 35.6, my mind visualized a bull-dozer (horns, fierce pride) which can be used for positive purposes to forcefully dig what is old and outdated and create and prepare something mew…..but when used aggressively, its constructive ‘good’ script has been changed to suit only the controller. This can overwhelm and make life miserable and tense for families, friends, and surrounding neighbors. The people it seems are at odds with the driver’s efforts. This can make him/her fiercely defend their honor….and alienate themselves from the people.

If we are consciously aware of ourselves and others we can begin to attract genuine and influential people who will support our creative and motivated ideas. But if we persevere with ‘horns down’ (delusions of grandeur?) our original ideas and interesting projects could end up with the rug being pulled up from under us. We not only lose our footing but our credibility. We could become disillusioned, feel shame, and humiliation as well.

With Best Regards,
ravenstar

 

[rosada]

Thanks for these comments Mike and ravenstar! Wish I'd read them a few minutes ago. I just gave a poster promoting some I Ching video the benefit of my opinion. Occurs to me now I probably should have just left him alone. And I wrote it on Quick Reply so now I can't erase it. ..hmm.. I guess I should go into hiding for awhile. Fitting lead in to Darkening of the Light... :bag:

 

[Trojina]

Thanks for these comments Mike and ravenstar! Wish I'd read them a few minutes ago. I just gave a poster promoting some I Ching video the benefit of my opinion. Occurs to me now I probably should have just left him alone. And I wrote it on Quick Reply so now I can't erase it. ..hmm.. I guess I should go into hiding for awhile. Fitting lead in to Darkening of the Light... :bag:

No why should you go into hiding because of your comment there ? I appreciated it because what you said was true and it wasn't a malicious comment - so come back out please (I mean he has posted 5 identical posts, incase we hadn't got the message, so s/he shouldn't be too surprised at some kind of response )

 

[ravenstar]

No why should you go into hiding because of your comment there ? I appreciated it because what you said was true and it wasn't a malicious comment - so come back out please (I mean he has posted 5 identical posts, incase we hadn't got the message, so s/he shouldn't be too surprised at some kind of response )

I agree with trojan, rosada! Do come back out!

With Great Respect
ravenstar