Memorizing the I Ching Hexagram 11. T'ai / Peace

[Sparhawk]

But has Steve got a version of the Yi that he's done himself? Or does he just review others? I did a search but came up with nothing.

Finally, I think it's time I got seriously into Bradford's site. Steve links to it, and I want a 'second lexicon' to consult.

There is no doubt Steve is bonafide scholar of the Yi and I've nothing but respect for him. Good question about a translation from him. I don't know one exists and if it does is most likely for private use. Besides, if only for himself, Steve doesn't need a translation and most likely would find such as an impediment to his comprehension of the Yi. His knowledge though, gives him a unique perspective to be a merciless editor of others' works.

L

 

[dobro p]

grin

I think the word 'merciless' is apt.

I'm going to be assembling a website in the next year, and I thought that one of the things I would put on it would be my version of the Yi. (I know, I know - 'just what the world needs - another Yi'. But mine's stripped down, economical, and as much as I've been able to make it so - useful.) But after reading some of the stuff on his site, the 'ouch' factor sorta disinclines me to volunteer for anything that might get me the same treatment lol. More seriously though, after reading some of the stuff on his site, I reckon my rendition of the Yi is nowhere near as tight as it needs to be. You know, I really esteem Hilary's takes on lines and meanings, but when I recently asked her to put out her own version, she declined. I mean, she's seen Steve's site too, right? haha

 

[Sparhawk]

I greatly value the efforts of other people to translate and share their Yi versions but, like with everything else in any "learned" field, you are subject to the scrutiny of your peers. Not always pretty...

My way to stay away from Steve's and other's editorial wrath is for one day to translate the Yi directly into Spanish. LOL!! Then, of course, I'll have the likes of Jessed chasing me...

L

 

[lightofreason]

IC+ 11.1

Line 1
"Removing the humble/small using one's class [ and therefore influence]. Unacceptable."

with/from harmonising comes entangling (46 belongs to the wind octet with its focus on cultivation and becoming influencial)

The mediation focus here is not sincere, class issues are being exploited by the mediator.

 

[nicky_p]

Hi Chris,
Wilhelm translates this line 'undertakings bring good fortune' but you see this as 'unacceptable'? I was wondering if you could say where and why you see a difference?
Thanks
Nicky

 

[lightofreason]

I did all of this using the ERANOS text when it first came out in 1994. For 11.1 the ERANOS text is:

"eradicating thatch-grass intertwisted.
Using one's classification.
Chastising significant."

The term for chastising is given as:

"CHENG: punish, subjugate, discipline; reduce to oder; punishing expedition. The ideogram: step and correct, a rectifying move"

The term "classifiction" is "HUI : class, collection, series; same kind; put or group together."

The alternative leaves out the class aspect and adds in a focus on purpose located 'outside' - locate "TSAI" - live in, dwell, reside, belong to, involved with, depend upon, within - ideogram of earth and persevere" but the chastising is still there.

Put all of this together and out pops my interpretation. - add-in the focus on 46 of getting entangled, pushing upwards etc adds the essence of a rise in status, class and so influence. Interestingly the opposite of 46 is 25 and it covers disentangling so there is a link to that entangled grass disentangled!

see ERANOS page 190

Chris.

 

[stevev]

Even the greatest heroes have to **** and pee

... I would put on it would be my version of the Yi. I know, I know - 'just what the world needs - another Yi'. ... But after reading some of the stuff on his site, the 'ouch' factor sorta disinclines me to volunteer for anything that might get me the same treatment lol...

Come on dobro the more the merrier, most aren’t much good so just a bit from them all adds up to something useful. If yours isn’t any good at least you’ll find out, and you never know it might turn out to be the best. Anyway just think of him in his underpants !

Whoops, I invoked the censor.

 

[rosada]

Would this be an example of what you meant, Chris, as 11.1 chastising?

 

[rosada]

Hex.11.2

Hex 11.2

Bearing with the uncultured in gentleness.
Fording the river with resolution,
Not neglecting what is distant,
Not regarding one's companions:
Thus one may manage to walk in the middle.

 

[lightofreason]

Would this be an example of what you meant, Chris, as 11.1 chastising?

 

[lightofreason]

IC+ 11.2

Line 2
"One needs to develop a sense of fairness, taking on the responsibility for the peasants[small] as well as distant friends[great]. Through this one tends towards honour and stability."

with/from harmonising (11) comes uncompromising (36) - being an uncompromisingly 'harmonist' mediator means the uncompromisingly equal consideration of small and great.

Chris.

 

[Sparhawk]

Would this be an example of what you meant, Chris, as 11.1 chastising?

Funny this came up. Here is my take on the chastising aspect of it that I posted on Yi-Toons a few days ago:

[_img_] Here there used to be a tiger and two raunchy friends; the only one sane was the tiger. [_/img_]

I imagine 11.1 as taking care of the unworthy ones. 10 moving to 11 is, for me at least, a good example of working hard, at a disadvantage, to reach a lofty goal. 11 is such a goal and the teasing it gives to 10 goes to show several of 11's character traits; chastising, if needed, is one of them.

L

 

[bruce_g]

Luis, how did you manage to post an image? I haven't been able to on this board for a few weeks now.

 

[bruce_g]

It comes out like this:

View attachment 104

I thought perhaps Hilary had the feature turned off.

 

[Sparhawk]

[_img_] link to the image goes here [_/img_]

Sans the underscores on both sides of the word "img"...

You must know the exact link where the image is hosted. In this case, the image is hosted in my site.

Try it.

L

PS: link must include the "http://"

 

[bruce_g]

Oh, I was uploading from computer, not a URL. Maybe that's why.

 

[Sparhawk]

Oh, I was uploading from computer, not a URL. Maybe that's why.

Yes, that could be it. Not sure if Hilary is allowing to host images on her site for posting...

L

 

[Sparhawk]

Bruce, perhaps this code will work for you (from the Help Files):


Attachment
The
Example Usage View attachment 12345
Example Output

 

[bruce_g]

Yes, that could be it. Not sure if Hilary is allowing to host images on her site for posting...

L

Not sure but I'm guessing it's a bandwidth issue. I've uploaded them here before with the new software, np. About 3-4 weeks ago or so it stopped allowing it.

 

[luz]

I think everybody has the same problem since weeks ago. I was able to upload images before but not anymore. Only if I upload them as links, like Luis did.

 

[hilary]

Yes... it's munged. It worked, and now it doesn't. Grmph. I asked Vbulletin support, and they gave me a list of things I must do before they'd look at it. I haven't got around to doing them yet.

 

[hilary]

(Looks like I should change the setting for allowed image width, too, doesn't it?)

 

[rosada]

11.2
Bearing with the non-working computer in gentleness,
Posting messages across the world with resolution,
Not neglecting who is far away,
Not worrying about who is close by:
Thus one may be united with everyone, regardless of philosophy and
distance.

(Cooperation, determination, patience, ane perseverance can overcome the greatest difficulties.)

 

[rosada]

Hex 11.3

11.3
No plain not followed by a slope.
No going not followed by a return.
He who remains persevering in danger
Is without blame.
Do not complain about this truth;
Enjoy the good fortune you still possess.

 

[lightofreason]

IC+

Line 3
"Plunging into things without recognizing one's limitations can cause problems. Only in time of desperate need, e.g. war, is this justified."

"with/from harmonising (11) comes approaching (19)"

The focus im 19 is on approaching the high and it defering to that approach, allowing it. the 'plunge' emphasis here is on being casual in approach, over confident, pushy as one mediates. Only in extreme conditions should such action be acceptable (there are always consequences for actions and here the price could be something not wanted! - IOW you need to be damn right about things to warrent such an action)

 

[Sparhawk]

(Looks like I should change the setting for allowed image width, too, doesn't it?)

Oops, sorry.... I'll take it down...

L


PS: done, I left some text in its stead.

 

[rosada]

The What Goes Up Must Come Down Line...

Wilhelm talks about this line as being the boundry between Heaven (upper trigram) and Earth (lower): "This suggests the idea of a setback. But the line is extremely strong. Hence it should not be sad, but only strong, enjoying the the good fortune that still remains (the nuclear trigram, Tui, in which this is the middle line, means mouth, hence enjoying, eating.)"

I have a friend who was on the verge of leaving his brief marrage when the wife announced that she was pregnant and although my friend had suspicions he was not the father, he stayed on for 20 more years and raised a beautiful daughter whom he's loved without question. Finally he insisted on DNA testing primarily because he felt the girl needed to know the truth. The results proved what he suspected all along, he was not the father. When we consulted the I Ching for a comment, he received 11.3. Thus:

11.3

No plain not followed by a slope.

...The stable home he provided could not last forever.

No going not followed by a return.

...The chickens coming home to roost, or the truth coming out.

He who remains persevering in danger
Is without blame.

...My frend insisted on the DNA test and was critisized for asking, but now it is clear he was without blame.

Do not complain about this truth;
enjoy the good fortune you still possess.

...Although he would like to think this daughter were his genetically, he will not complain about the truth (or make a drama of it with the ex). He emphasizes he is glad she knows the truth, and the love he feels for the daughter and the genes make no difference.

Also, I think this is an example of Chris' take on 11.3 in that my friend was wise to be damn right about things before he insisted on taking action.

 

[dobro p]

11.3's always been a bit of a puzzle for me. But at going to press time, I've had this as part of my understanding of it: things aren't what they appear to be. I think this because it talks about things being hard or difficult but no fault or blame being attached; it talks about not worrying or being concerned - you'll apprehend the truth anyway; it talks about receiving or taking in a blessing. So for me, the 'what goes up must come down' bits at the beginning are just a reminder that what you see right now is not necessarily all you get - there's more. But don't sweat it, cuz overall, despite appearances and a hard row to hoe, it's good news.

 

[rosada]

Then I was puzzling over the original entries on this thread, wondering how it was all this technical talk surfaced while we're on hex.11, Heaven being in communication with Earth. I would have expected there to be more talk about bliss and enlightenment. Now it seems to me it's because 11. Peace is the VERY time for asking technical questions. Like if we were brave enough to 10. Tread into The Presence of All That Is and if connecting with this power didn't immediately strike us dead and if we were able to connect/comunicate with God, what would we do? Just giggle and moan? No! We'd ask questions! And not just big questions about the meaning of life, we'd want to know mundane stuff like why did he create fruit flies and more specifically "How can I get this @#% computer to work?"

 

[martin]

IC+
Line 3
"Plunging into things without recognizing one's limitations can cause problems. Only in time of desperate need, e.g. war, is this justified."

"with/from harmonising (11) comes approaching (19)"

The focus im 19 is on approaching the high and it defering to that approach, allowing it. the 'plunge' emphasis here is on being casual in approach, over confident, pushy as one mediates. Only in extreme conditions should such action be acceptable (there are always consequences for actions and here the price could be something not wanted! - IOW you need to be damn right about things to warrent such an action)

Nice explanation, but a bit over confident?