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Memorizing the I Ching Hexagram 12. P'i Standstill [Stagnation]

L

lightofreason

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frank_r said:
In 11 there is a changing in heaven to wind, from metal to wood and in 12 there is a change from earth to wood. So the connection here is wood. But at the same time they are opposites a yin and yang wood.

So in 11, a harmonious sign, where the action of the trigrams is towards each other is changing to a yin wood sign. A more reducing and spreading action.
And in 12, where the action of the father and mother are in oppsite direction is changing in a yang wood sign. A more involving action towards each other.

Firstly, I think you may need to move to a general position to flesh 11 and 12 out fully. As opposites their are different sides of the same coin - the coin is labelled "mediating" - 11 covers the act of mediating to balance/harmonise be it positive or negative (emotionally the nature of 11 reads with/from anger comes fear - refinable to with/from devotion to self comes absolute trust in others/another (dual-mindedness)). 12 covers the act of mediating to neutralise be it positive or negative (emotionally the nature of 12 reads with/from fear comes anger - refinable to with/from devotion to another/others comes total trust in self (single-mindedness))

"he battles in the sign of the Creative" "he causes them to serve one another in the sign of the Receptive"

The 'battle' nature of heaven is put to use in the service to another/others of earth in the form of mediating.

Added to this are the pairs made of 11,26 and 12,45 that contribute to overall meaning in that these pairs share meaning in general other than top line differences.

Secondly, we can move WITHIN each hexagram to utilise XOR to bring out each hexagram's spectrum and we can use that to flesh out change as well.

If we have 12 into 33 then the spectrum change applies as well and so we have 64 sources of meaning to flesh-out the change function. Thus 12 into 33 is the core and with that comes such analogies as:

change in infrastructure described by analogy from 17 (27-ness of 12) to 49 (27-ness of 33).
change in nourishment source from 50 (48-ness of 12) to 29 (48-ness of 33)
change in 'beginning', or what the hexagram keeps coming back to, from 25 (24-ness of 12) to 13 (24-ness of 33).
change in external 'look' from 49 (22-ness of 12) to 17 (22-ness of 33)
change in internal 'look' from 04 (47-ness of 12) to 18 (47-ness of 33)
etc
etc
etc

These analogies come out of the self-referencing methodology in creating the IC where we can get the IC to describe itself in general and then add local colourings, subjective elements etc.

in other words there is a lot of information ignored/not-realised in the traditional focus on 'hexagram+ changing line(s)'.

From a five-phase focus we have metal in a context of earth changing into metal in a context of earth! - the implication here is a context of FILTRATION (EARTH) within which is operating COMPETITIVE EXCHANGE (METAL).

The differences are in the TYPE of filtration - in 12 the rules come from outside (a belief system etc) but in 33 we have moved to being able to use our own, experience-derived, rules.

ALL of this analysis comes out of using the 'natural' derivation of hexagrams through self-referencing yin/yang. THEN come the variations on themes. IOW there is still a LOT of material untouched as yet by most due the 'religious' focus on the traditional IC - the reluctance to let it fully blossom in attempts to keep it faithfully 'pure' - a bit like refusing to extend the Bible or Koran etc despite evidence from Science that, for example, women are equal to men ;-)

Chris.
 
L

lightofreason

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martin said:
In 63.1 the tail that gets wet is not a prognosis, it has already happened. The prognosis is that the fox will be more careful from now on. ;)

lets see --- eranos 63.1

Pulling-back one's wheels. Yi Lun
Soaking one's tail. Ju Wei
Without fault. Wu Chiu

64.1
Soaking one's tail. Ju Wei
Abashment. Lin

Common theme - soaking one's tail. Difference, without fault vs abashment. Gets into the same theme different aspects.
No le other than in interpretation?

Chris.
 
L

lightofreason

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how about the chinese/english IC from Fu Huisheng ("The Zhou Book of Change"):

63.1
Nine at the bottom line, just as the driver pulls back on the wheel, or a fox wets its tail in crossing a river, both try to hold back with prudence. He is free from blame.

64.1
Six at the bottom line, the small fox gets its tail wet when he crosses the river. It is a pity he fails.

In IC+ texts the pair 63/64 cover issues of correctness in sequence, the correct steps to completion or failure but also the focus on remaining open rather than closing. The sequence focus brings out issues of precision and that is 'correct' in 63, sloppy in 64. Thus in 63 getting a tail wet is not due to sloppyness as it is in 64.

hex 63 covers the template for line position 'natures' up a hexagram and so brings out its focus on 'correct' ordering, IOW we see the anti-symetric aspect of the hexagram brought out here with a focus on hierarchy (general to particular) and emphasis on syntax. In 64 we are 'out of phase', out of step when we interpret from a sequence perspective. From the qualitative focus 63 covers closure, 64 covers remaining open. BOTH hexagrams are derived from trigrams focused on boundaries, borders, cross over of such etc etc.

Thus we have BEFORE closure, AFTER closure, CORRECT Sequence, MIS-Sequence, Close, REMAIN Open (aka immediate vs delayed - this focus reflects a regulation dynamic of immediate gratification vs delayed - and so 64 is also positive as well as negative as is 63 negative as well as positive)

Thus the negative of 64 is false in that it also contains the positive - and visa versa for 63.

The nature of IDM's contractive bounding is to hold in/keep out, reject. The nature of expansive bounding is to hold in/move out , accept.

From a trigram perspective 63 reads with guidance comes control. For 64 it is from containment comes direction setting. 63 comes across as more in 'control' as such ;-) -- and the initial containment of 64 suggests over caution perhaps (the base of water with a rejecting bias as compared to fire and an accepting bias)?

Ya wanna compare spectrums?.....

Chris.
 
L

lightofreason

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12.4

Nine in the fourth place means:
He who acts at the command of the highest
Remains without blame.
Those of like mind partake of the blessing.
 
L

lightofreason

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IC+ 12.4

Line 4
"The realization that one's fate is in one's hands. [lines 1,2,3 imply outside control]. No harm in this for it introduces new possibilities in all directions."

with/from neutralising (12) comes admiring (20)

The 20 is a source of motivation, command etc through being an example and so seeds activitities of individuals being driven to 'I can do THAT!'

As such there is a transition from being reactive to being proactive. (the 'high rank' focus is also present in 11.4 - the overall opposites here are of 20/34, both cover motivating/invigorating/cultivating/influencing but 20 is passive, 34 more active)

The negative aspect of 20 is to be made an example of, and so to put off those with similar ideas.
 

frank_r

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lightofreason said:
IC+ 12.4

Line 4
"The realization that one's fate is in one's hands. [lines 1,2,3 imply outside control]. No harm in this for it introduces new possibilities in all directions."

Funny I refer line 1,2 and 3 most of the time with my inner self the part where I can be in control.
 
L

lightofreason

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frank_r said:
Funny I refer line 1,2 and 3 most of the time with my inner self the part where I can be in control.

Context frank, context. The issues from the book of *changes* with 12 is its reluctance to change, mediation is more on neutralising attacks on one's faith - a faith imposed from outside and so now resident 'inside' in the form of one's belief.

From five-phase we know the trigram of earth shares space with that of mountain to reflect five-phase aspects of EARTH aka FILTRATION. The trigram aspect of earth is on unconditional filtration - the filter, the rules etc are supplied from outside. Move to mountain and we move into conditional filtration, our minds use our experiences to make us more context-sensitive in developing our filters.

Given one of the traditional perspectives of moving up the hexagram from general to particular, Getting to 12.4 moves us into an opening-up of these issues (we are at a line position of 'ministers' and so have influence - controlling hexagram for the line position is 16 and so the enthusiasm and foresight of the ruler's adviser)

The worker/supervisor/local-lord serve the faith, uphold it without question (and so fight for it) - the minister position introduces 'politics' ;-)

The line comments for 1,2,3 are more 'reactive' than 12.4 indicating a shift from hard-core neutralising to being more context-sensitive, exploitive etc. in our neutralising ;-)

Chris.
 

martin

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lightofreason said:
lets see --- eranos 63.1

Pulling-back one's wheels. Yi Lun
Soaking one's tail. Ju Wei
Without fault. Wu Chiu

64.1
Soaking one's tail. Ju Wei
Abashment. Lin

I got it from Legge. For 64.1 he has "The first line, dividided, shows its subject like a fox whose tail gets immersed."
But in 63.1 he uses the past tense - " .. a fox which has wet his tail" - and judging from his notes his idea is that the fox has learned from this, he "will not attempt the stream again".
Perhaps it is indeed only his interpretation, but it fits well with the difference between 63 and 64. 63 is more past and 64 is more future oriented.

Anyway, I was just trying to be picky :). What interests me more is what I mentioned in my second post, that the second hexagram that you get when a line changes doesn't tell the whole story about the line. It's more complicated.
If we assume that the second hexagram does tell the whole story, it would imply - I think - that the line commentaries are only valid if one line changes, not if there are two or more.
 
L

lightofreason

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martin said:
Anyway, I was just trying to be picky :). What interests me more is what I mentioned in my second post, that the second hexagram that you get when a line changes doesn't tell the whole story about the line. It's more complicated.
If we assume that the second hexagram does tell the whole story, it would imply - I think - that the line commentaries are only valid if one line changes, not if there are two or more.

As I have said before, there are 58 comments missing per hexagram ;-)

Thus if 1 and 6 of 12 are changing then there is a missing comment on:

with/from neutralising (12) comes following (17)

Then comes the issue of 27-ness where XORing that with also gives us 17. So... what is the difference between changing lines and XOR?

The XOR appears to give us a description, by analogy, of aspects of the hexagram - it parts list described by analogy to hexagrams since the language is all hexagrams - the IC describes 'all there is' and that includes itself. It also described change as if one hexagram is changing into another. Thus we have:

(a) XOR 27 with 12 gives us the infrastructure description of 12 by analogy to 17 and that is reasonably easy to 'fit' in that the generic expression of 17, a vague sense of establishing a belief, fits in with being an infrastructue supporting the more particular nature of 12 as 'fighting' to defend belief/faith etc. There is a reciprocal relationship with 12 being the 27-ness of 17 and so the vague sense of belief support seeds the particular focus of 17.

(b) Change lines 1 and 6 suggests a distinct path of development and so 12 into 17 rather than the 27-ness of 12 being 17 - IOW we use the same language to describe interactions within a hexagram and between hexagrams.

The Duke of Chou's focus on 6 lines reflects a focus on strict hierarchic development of a hexagram but BEYOND the 6 lines in that the comments assume knowledge of the completed hexagram, not its making, and so a perspective applied to a complete six-line form.

Given this focus, there is no concept of more than one line changing since that would not be possible to still maintain the 'order', the sense of sequence. SO we have to change analysis from an ordinal form to a cardinal form - we treat the hexagram as a 'whole' out of which we can extract parts in the form of a spectrum... IOW we are dealing with an energy, a magnitude. In this form we extract harmonics of that whole using XOR as well as identify change from A to B through multiple line changes where these lines represent different qualities rather than temporal steps etc.

As I said before, self-referencing gives us a complex form identifiable using symmetric, anti-symmetric and asymmetric methods so there is a LOT of work to be done in fleshing out the 'full spectrum' of the IC ;-)

Chris.
 

martin

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What about right or wrong place, correlate or not, centrality, etcetera then? These are factors that play a role regardless of the second hexagram.
If, for example, hex 12 changes to 13 (line 1 and 3 changing) the line comments on line 1 and 3 are still valid, at least insofar they were based on these factors. I think ..
 

hilary

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Yes - and 25 and 33 become worth considering, each as a context for their respective lines. A sort of mini-relating hexagram, as it were. Correctness, centrality etc don't seem to me to be so fundamental: they're added layers of interpretation, designed to make sense (in theory) of the line texts.

But Chris has got lines 2, 3 and 4 up on the blackboard already, and here we still are nattering away at the back of the class. Tut.

'Enwrapping shame.'
Taking the embarrassment into yourself - perhaps for reasons of self-preservation in the unpleasant climate of 12, perhaps to feel it more acutely, not just as a social emotion.

There is 'enwrapping' in lines 2 and 3, and then the 'bushy' mulberry in line 5 is an 'enwrapping-plant', literally. It seems to be an image of the child in the womb - and this would seem to be a big theme for Hexagram 12. When it's not time for things to grow and flourish out there, they can still be protected and growing in this independent, miniature world.

Or maybe the image brings something entirely different to mind for you?
 
L

lightofreason

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martin said:
What about right or wrong place, correlate or not, centrality, etcetera then? These are factors that play a role regardless of the second hexagram.
If, for example, hex 12 changes to 13 (line 1 and 3 changing) the line comments on line 1 and 3 are still valid, at least insofar they were based on these factors. I think ..

Dont think so. you cannot confuse serial interpretations with parallel. If lines 1 and 3 are changing there is no meaning possible using a serial approach since 3 is ALWAYS 'beyond' 1, AFTER 1. you are trying to use serial methods, ordinality, in a context covering cardinality and these are clearly different - even in Mathematics as shown by Cantor etc. in his studies on 'infinities'.

With the 1&3 change, interpreting it using existing line change comments is an error in that 3 applies to NOW and 1 to yesterday - but yesterday, being yesterday is past, completed, not open to modification other than in interpretation or re-interpretation of the events. The derivation of the IC as a calendar etc reflects this hard-core focus on sequence. Thus a changing line 1 and 3 indicate spring and winter at the same time in spring an so at best an analogy rather than taking the sequence literally - but most DO take the sequence literally.

The combination of information into an asymmetric dichotomy form of expression means we will have THREE forms of interpretations for EACH hexagram where all three cover the 'whole'; asymmetric, symmetric, anti-symmetric. The ancient chinese focus is on the use of compasses etc - Fu Hsi, King Wen, Family and all other orderings of the trigrams.

If you treat the hexagram as a whole, a complex energy expression, and so a focus on cardinality, magnitude, then the multiple and single line changes reflect aspectual changes of the whole; re-configuration of aspects to deal with some external stimulus. This is what tensors do (and so we move from scalar to vector to matrices and so tensors, spinors etc)

To make the hexagram cover a pure temporal focus allowing for all hexagrams to be considered in sequence, means moving from 6 lines to 64 line configurations. And so there are 58 missing comments in each hexagram.

Chris.
 
L

lightofreason

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12.5

Nine in the fifth place means:
Standstill is giving way.
Good fortune for the great man.
"What if it should fail, what if it should fail?"
In this way he ties it to a cluster of mulberry shoots.
 
L

lightofreason

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IC+
Line 5
"One realizes one must give up stillness. It must be totally forgotten, to enable one to move towards dense tranquility. [This active attempt to find tranquility and it's association with the concept of stillness is wrong. The only way to find tranquility is implicit rather than explicit. Do not try; forget it. Only then will it come.]"

With/from neutralising (12) comes progressing - bringing something into the light (35), to notice etc.

Line 5 covers the ruler etc and is linked to qualities described by passive attraction/admiration to a 'light' (ruler) through a qualitative link to hexagram 08. A property of 08 is this passive attraction, of doing nothing and things will come to you (as people go to the court, the court does not go to them).

There is a difference between actvely being still and being naturally 'still' where you attract.

AS hex 12 reads from a trigram focus of with/from devotion to another/others comes singlemindedness, in 35 we have with/from devotion to another/others comes a sense of direction/ideology. (the raw emotion side of 35 reads from anger comes acceptance; Emotionally between 12 and 35 we see a shift from anger to acceptance within a context of fear.)

Note that anger/singlemindedness includes isolationist, self-containment. in the shift there is a focus on acceptance and so covers the shift from being singular to becoming more open, more accepting or being accepted.

What does this acceptance cover? IT covers map-making, as we push a boundary out (fire) so we convert the unknown to the known. In this process we make maps to aid in protection as well as guides for exploration.

I make this point to cover the asking of such questions as 'what if it fails?" in that the 'vibe' fits the creation of maps to show what to do etc etc. and so make things more 'certain' (See Wilhelm's comments on the mulberry shoots - note the term for mulberry shoots also covers:

SANG - literal tree and silk production; tranquility; retired, rural place.

Chris.
 

hilary

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I still haven't caught up with you here.

12.4 is a good one to keep the translators among us happy. So many possibilities, so few words.

How about...

'There is a mandate, not a mistake.
Work with clarity, fulfilment.'

?

It's the second line of that where the fun really starts. 'Working with' is 'cultivating', farming, a ploughed field. (Or 'alike, pair'.) Clarity is as in Hexagram 30, a sign, maybe an oriole. Something you see as well as something you see with. And 'fulfilment' is (I think) a prediction of good fortune that's come to pass.

What I get from all that is the idea of receiving a call or message. Despite the time of 12, a message has got through. One of those omen-birds has managed to land. So you take it and work with it.

This line is the other side of the coin (depending what shape you think the coin is, but I'm happy with paired lines) from 11.3, the 'no plain without a slope' line that encourages 'hard work with constancy'. Take the rough with the smooth, nourish yourself on all the flavours. When you really See ming, really get the message, you start work. It doesn't all go smoothly just because it's 'meant'.

Note from experience - the message is not necessarily what you wanted it to be.

At line 4, we're entering the outer realm - time to respond to the call and start work. And in trigram terms, we just had our first contact with Heaven. We're at the interface between earth and sky. Orioles in a ploughed field?


 

ewald

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hilary said:
12.4 is a good one to keep the translators among us happy. So many possibilities, so few words.
This is my translation (which is actually quite close to Bradford's):
Having a higher purpose is no fault,
but it is a category separate from happiness.
It says that one has something important to do, which isn't exactly fun.

Hilary's understanding of 離 (name of hexagram 30) seems to be very close to the meaning of 明 (Ming, as in hexagram 36). I see it more as being about separation.
 
L

lightofreason

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...is rosada hanging out for the end of 12 before she comes back?!

Nine at the top means:
The standstill comes to a end.
First standstill, then good fortune.
 
L

lightofreason

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IC+

Line 6
"To remove oneself from the times requires action, for things do not cease on their own despite their apparent demise."

if the focus is on neutralising, one cannot leave that focus without de-neutralising, making a choice at odds with the act of neutralising. Neutralising elicits 'stillness' or 'standstill' and as such introduces sterility, it is an act of sterilisation from the context of the IC as a focus on change. Sterility indicates a cessation and to 'move on' from this position needs action other than the only act in town to date - neutralising.

Line position 6 is associated with hexagram 23 and the focus on pruning, getting back to basics for the 'return' of the new season. This pruning elicits the sense of some action required despite a demise (end of season etc).

The change of 12 into 45 reads "with/from neutralising come congregating". (lake covers self-reflection and self-reflection doubled - intensity in expression - this intensity also touches on the 'need for action'. One point of view is that after a period of stillness comes a celebration in its completion - the 'joy' element of 45 together with the congregating - many religions have these periods of fasting etc followed by feast where the fasting is an affirmation of one' faith - which is something 12 focuses upon))

Chris.
 
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hilary

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Ewald, I've seen experiences that match with your take on 12.4 - things to do that aren't fun. But I think that - as in 11.4 - you are still being strongly encouraged to do it.

Separating things is part of perceiving them distinctly - but I'd see the perception as the key idea.
 

rosada

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Thanks so much for hosting the thread, Chris.
Sorry for the delay in getting back online, folks. I was not intentionally creating a Standstill!
 

Sparhawk

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