...life can be translucent

Menu

Might there be a comet in hexagram 22?

hilary

Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
19,149
Reaction score
3,418
I read this blog post -
http://blog.prehistoricshamanism.com/507/hale-bopp-the-modern-discovery-of-an-ancient-comet/
- and started wondering.

The post is recommended anyway - wonderful stuff, about possible ancient references to the 'recently discovered' Hale Bopp comet. The imagery used - the star with hair, the unicorn and its tail - brought to mind,
'Beautiful like silver hair,
Like a soaring white horse. [or one with feathers??]
Not a robber, but a marital ally.'

Then I realised that this line changes to 30, li x 2.

Then that the fan yao is,
'Sudden,
It comes,
Burns,
Dies,
Thrown out.'

So I posted a comet-comment, and now the site owner is expressing polite interest, and I'm wondering how far up the garden path I've led him. Could there be a comet lurking behind these lines, do you think?

I know we have other explanations for the imagery in 22.4: the marriage procession, the poor-groom-as-robber custom (though it's a bit odd having the two together in one line, come to think of it). Only that doesn't quite explain the hair, the feathers, the silvery white. And the 'not a robber...' - could the idea be that a new, moving star would normally be a bad sign, but this one has an unusually positive significance?
 

meng

(deceased)
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
94
Wilhelm makes reference to a meteor in his commentaries on this line, which I think represents line 4 better than a comet, since a meteor burns out so quickly and easily upon entering the earth's atmosphere. A comet's impact would be devastatingly destructive to the planet, and I don't see that fitting 22's lighter image.
 

hilary

Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
19,149
Reaction score
3,418
Comet, not meteorite - something that passes us by at intervals, not on a collision course. But I see what you mean about 30.4 as meteor. It's the white winged horse that got my attention, though.
 

meng

(deceased)
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
94
I still don't get the connection, other than comets are pretty to look at. But the same can be said for a ripe apple, lighted with life. *scratching head*
 

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
125
'Beautiful like silver hair,
Like a soaring white horse. [or one with feathers??]
Not a robber, but a marital ally.'

Then I realised that this line changes to 30, li x 2.

Then that the fan yao is,
'Sudden,

got this line awhile ago and was looking for the equivalent of Pegasus in Chinese mythology . and found that :

A dragon horse is the [qi 氣] vital spirit of Heaven and Earth. As a being its shape consists of a horse's body, yet it has dragon scales. Therefore it is called 'dragon horse'. Its height is eight ch'ih five ts'un. A true dragon horse has wings at its sides and walks upon the water without sinking. If a holy man is on the throne it comes out of the midst of the Ming river, carrying a map on its back. (tr. Visser 1913:58)

from here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longma

30.4 has a kind of Qi but doesn't last , like a failing star - short-lived while in 22.4 , that guy came to stay ;) The only temporary - comet -like I can see in 22.4 is the "misunderstanding" and the horse's intervention seems like the deus ex machina. , in ancient theater
 

meng

(deceased)
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
94
Even though I'm not a proponent of 22 being limited to superficiality, I found the word "fluffy", like a loosely packed dirty snowball (ice ball), to be commonly used to describe a comet.

Comet tails are extremely tenuous—giant volumes of practically nothing.

Planets can be seen through the head of comets, demonstrating their "fluffy" or very loosely condensed nature.

images


Another interesting thing, the tail always faces away from the sun as it orbits the sun. Contrary to our idea of the tail following behind the direction of an object, a comet travels sideways. Not sure how that's relevant to 22 but it's interesting.

In recent news..

So, in a sense, I can see 22 exhibited in a comet.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
I read this blog post -
http://blog.prehistoricshamanism.com/507/hale-bopp-the-modern-discovery-of-an-ancient-comet/
- and started wondering.

The post is recommended anyway - wonderful stuff, about possible ancient references to the 'recently discovered' Hale Bopp comet. The imagery used - the star with hair, the unicorn and its tail - brought to mind,
'Beautiful like silver hair,
Like a soaring white horse. [or one with feathers??]
Not a robber, but a marital ally.'

Then I realised that this line changes to 30, li x 2.

Then that the fan yao is,
'Sudden,
It comes,
Burns,
Dies,
Thrown out.'

So I posted a comet-comment, and now the site owner is expressing polite interest, and I'm wondering how far up the garden path I've led him. Could there be a comet lurking behind these lines, do you think?

I know we have other explanations for the imagery in 22.4: the marriage procession, the poor-groom-as-robber custom (though it's a bit odd having the two together in one line, come to think of it). Only that doesn't quite explain the hair, the feathers, the silvery white. And the 'not a robber...' - could the idea be that a new, moving star would normally be a bad sign, but this one has an unusually positive significance?


I think there could easily be a comet behind 22.4...not that I know much about comets but they are seen as announcers, messengers, bringing portenders and so on. I feel 22.4 has that kind of cosmic quality behind it....he comes on wings not as a robber bringing ill omen, as they, comets, sometimes do I think, but an omen that does sustain a promise or an offer....The fact that it is coupled with 30.4 makes it seem more likely. The imagery of marriage never tied in for me with this glittering silvery white soaring energy flying...it passes by and announces.

However there's no way of knowing for sure I guess
 
Last edited:

hilary

Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
19,149
Reaction score
3,418
I'm being more simple-minded than you, Bruce - just thinking about how the comet tail looks like a silvery horse's tail, or like feathers. No way of knowing, indeed. (Anyway, I do like that blog.)
 

meng

(deceased)
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
94
I'm being more simple-minded than you, Bruce - just thinking about how the comet tail looks like a silvery horse's tail, or like feathers.

And I'm growing senile.
 

bradford

(deceased)
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,626
Reaction score
410
There Might be a comet in 22, but there almost certainly might Not be.
 

rodaki

visitor
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
2,176
Reaction score
78
I could see how 22.4 might bring a comet to mind . . yet, I"d be more inclined to see comets as 56s: same trigrams but reversed. On the other hand, I've repeatedly seen Yi referring to the movement of planets and other objects in the sky as 17, or, occasionally, 16 . .
 
P

peterg

Guest
There is a small hint of comet, bearded or hairy star, in 22.2
Whatever about comets, the flying? or as if flying, horse suggests a possible astronomical reference in 22.4 if the horse is flying. No surprise that Karcher(Total I Ching) refers to it poetically as ' this connection can carry you like the sacred flying horse.'

38.6, which also contains a reference to bride abduction, also contains an astronomical detail, the ghost chariot, two constellations actually, in the Red Bird macroconstellation.

A wikipedia article on tengshe, flying snake, poetically parallels tengshe, an asterism of 22 stars in the Black Tortoise macroconstellation, with with feiju, flying horse, in the classical (3rd-2nd centuries BC) usages section :
'' With team of dragons I mount the heavens, In ivory chariot borne aloft....I wander through all the constellations, I roam around the north pole.The Leaping Serpent follows behind me,the Flying Horse trots at my side.''
 
P

peterg

Guest
About the horse
The poetic parallel might have been poetic imagination or could have been describing a shamanic trance journey into the heavenly regions, with the horse and serpent as familiar guides.
I couldn't locate a horse star or constellation but I found a promising lead about a ' heavenly horse constellation north of the heavenly swine mansion'.And another 'horse star rising in the constellation tien kuan, heavenly official.

In world mythology the white horse possesses exceptional qualities transcending the natural world by having wings or horns as in unicorn. It suggests the heroic prince and triumph over negative forces.
The horse in China was used in warfare and aristocratic transport and horse riding may have been viewed by the common people with suspicion as strange and foreign.

In Chinese folktales the horse is linked with the silkworm, for example this tale from Alan Miller about ''the woman who married a horse''. Its tricky to find, but if you go to this link and type the title into the search box it will take you to a free pdf download : http://www.gobookee.net/2-chinese-folktale/

About the comet
Its a stretch but I can imagine in 30.4 a close encounter with a comet turning the land white.
If carbon and hydrogen gases in the tail of the comet reacted with oxygen in the atmosphere to create a carbohydrate, this could literally explain the idea of manna falling from heaven or ambrosia, and the land flowing with milk and honey.This would be a silver lining of the destruction.

In Nostradamus, milk and blood are explicitly linked together with disasters and comets in several quatrains
2.46 'After great misery for mankind, an even greater approaches when the great cycle of the centuries is renewed.It will rain blood, milk, famine, war and disease.In the sky will be seen a fire dragging a trail of sparks'.
2.62 '...a dreadful destruction of people and animals.Suddenly vengeance revealed ...thirst and hunger when the comet will pass'.
The blood might be red dust from the comets tail which would poison the water supply.(volcanic dust would be a factor in this scenario)

This theme of blood and milk in relation to comets is explored at length in Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision.
He also explores events in China c. middle of the 2nd millenium BC such as flooding, and links them with the plagues of Egypt and the Exodus.( indexed, so its good reference material and you dont have to read the whole book).
He argues that the terror of past comet close encounters has induced a collective amnesia and the memory was erased not because of the lack of written traditions but because people preferred to read allegory and metaphor when actual cosmic disturbances were being described.
 
Last edited:

bradford

(deceased)
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,626
Reaction score
410
I don't think the image needs to be any more complicated than simply pointing out the hyperbole of mating rituals, the attempt to glamour or dazzle.
 

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
125
the suspicion then is due to the "exotic" appearance ?

In a less serious manner, that guy appears to be the prince on the white horse , lol
 

meng

(deceased)
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
94
In a less serious manner, that guy appears to be the prince on the white horse , lol

No way! That's her flaxen mane flying in the wind, and her carelessly revealing linens are but puffs of clouds. Forecast is sunny with clouds, or maybe cloudy with sunshine. But if not for those damned clouds, which hid her most secret spots, why there'd be no form at all, only a lonely blue sky.
 

meng

(deceased)
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
94
PS: But please do indulge your own exotic imagination. :)
 
P

peterg

Guest
Interesting comet documentary on BBC4 this weekend. Hale Bopp was mentioned and they showed that photo with the two tails, one dust, one gas.
So its got the double brightness of 30 and this white-haired comet does indeed resonate with the hair in 22.
Comets contain organic material-life- resonating with 22's 'approach that looks ominous but offers something good'.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
I saw some of that last night...the more I watched the more I understood how the ancients, and ancient Chinese were mentioned, perceived comets as harbingers. There is even a picture of a comet on the Bayeux tapestry ...battle of Hastings.

The more I watched images of white comets streaming through the heavens all white and feathery and heard how they were perceived before it was known what they were, the more likely a comet in 22.4 seemed. I will watch the rest on catch up TV.
 
P

peterg

Guest
Soaring horses
http://www.gobookee.net/search.php?q=woman+who+married+a+horse
This link to the Chinese folktale 'the woman who married a horse' is a 30 page analysis of the tale.

In the section on horse symbolism (p295) is a reference to conflict with horse mounted nomads of the west and north and the horse acquiring religious significance.In the 2nd century BC a series of expeditions were undertaken to procure ''heavenly horses'' from Fergana in west central Asia, and these particular horses seem to have had a ritual significance.
It includes a poem translated by Arthur Waley ecstatically celebrating the return of a successful expedition in 101 BC :'The Heavenly Horses are coming.....Should they choose to soar aloft, Who could keep pace?...'

Perhaps the horses were 'heavenly' partly because they came from the northwest, the direction associated with heaven.They can soar aloft because they are heavenly 'and can transform themselves like spirits.'

ps bird feathers also feature in that analysis which discusses magical transformations by means of containment in an animal hide or feather cloak.
ps The link is a little tricky. Dont use the high speed download.Use the first search result.Or the second.
 
Last edited:
P

peterg

Guest
David Pankenier
Fantastic link from sparhawk with many interesting papers and articles related to Chinese cosmology, astronomy and astrology.
Easy access to read but to download papers you have to sign up via facebook.I am a little suspicious of this kind of sign up, in terms of the small-print access you are sometimes required to give to friends lists and so on.

Married to a comet
In Chinese culture, comets or broom stars are bad luck, and familial outsiders like daughters-in-law, maids and employees have been called comets and blamed for bringing down the fortune of the family.
Stub article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comets_in_Chinese_culture

Divine horses foretold by Book of Changes
Han Dynasty Emperor Wu c.141-87 BC was obsessed with stories from the west about a breed of horse like no other.It seems he divined the Book of Changes and was told that divine horses would appear from the northwest.The Ferghana horses (also known as Nisaean and Parthian), were faster and stronger and so grand and superior that he called them heavenly horses,tian ma and went to war to acquire them.
They are also called the 'sweat blood horse', han xue ma, possible the action of skin parasites.They became symbols of power and prestige and the more horses you owned the higher your status.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferghana_horse
 

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
125
Easy access to read but to download papers you have to sign up via facebook.I am a little suspicious of this kind of sign up, in terms of the small-print access you are sometimes required to give to friends lists and so on.

You can sign up with an independent account.

thanks for the link, Luis
 

russell

visitor
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
126
Reaction score
5
The Perseid meteor shower during the next few nights should be a good time to lie back and ponder this topic . . . .
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top