Migraines 5.1

[gael123]

Never having had migraines before, I got one in July and have just had another, late September. I'm a terrible hypochondriac anyway and this kind of thing really freaks me out. It's been a v stressful few months while I leave the teaching profession which I've been in all my adult life, and I've also had recurrences of some autoimmune conditions which are basically under control but which flare with stress. I've been reading too many message boards and am scared if I don't seek preventative treatment these could become chronic. I asked the Yi

What do I need to know about the migraine I just had? Hex 36.3.4 to 51

What will happen with my migraines? Hex 5.1 to 48.

Any thoughts much appreciated!

Gael (sleepily)

 

[Bezoya]

Hi Gael, I am sure some of the senior members will be able to enlighten you on the meaning of the lines. I'm a learner still, so I can only offer my compassion , as I had migraines for much of my life, though much better now.
What I can say is that I found TCM (acupuncture and herbs) helped most, and I believe it is also based upon the same philosophy as the I Ching. It took a while for me to grasp the meridians as a reality and realise that emotions really do cause the energy flows to get blocked, but once you understand that you are in control. It is the Liver Meridian which causes migraines, so what helps is to become aware of when you are suppressing your anger or other emotions, letting frustration out in a physical way , but also doing things like going dancing! As long as you keep the energy flowing, it can't become chronic. Hope this helps.

 

[kttuan]

With 36.3.4, i can read something about it:
1.cause: you had an inflame in knee or/and thig(in bones), so you heart is weak, ànd liver is also in bad situation.
2. Treatment: any food/medicine which reduce liver operation from over operating to nornal operating.

 

[kttuan]

With 36.3.4, i can read something about it:
1.cause: you had an inflame in knee or/and thigh(in bones), so you heart is weak, ànd liver is also in bad situation.
2. Treatment: any food/medicine which reduce liver operation from over operating to nornal operating.

 

[Bezoya]

Hi Kttuan - that is really interesting! May I ask how you are able to link the lines with the physical body/medical issues??

 

[kttuan]

Hi Kttuan - that is really interesting! May I ask how you are able to link the lines with the physical body/medical issues??

yes. These things is included in the "detail six lines method" of interpreting.

 

[Bezoya]

sorry to bother you, but I'm still quite new to all this. Can you give me a website name, or a link if that is allowed in the forum, to show me of an example of what you mean? I am afraid I couldn't find anything myself when I searched for "detail six lines method" Thank you!

 

[kttuan]

Sorry because all of they are in my language, and chinese, so wait me for some days.

 

[Trojina]

sorry to bother you, but I'm still quite new to all this. Can you give me a website name, or a link if that is allowed in the forum, to show me of an example of what you mean? I am afraid I couldn't find anything myself when I searched for "detail six lines method" Thank you!

There's no need to be sorry as what you ask for is actually required in the forum rules - you shouldn't need to ask as the link should already be there

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?8285-How-the-I-Ching-Community-works

from there

One other rule

If something about the way you do readings is unfamiliar to most members (eg the method, the text), please edit your signature to include a link to an explanation. (You can always write this yourself in Exploring Divination.)

...tagging @hilary;

 

[kttuan]

To Trojina: i-ching is not only what you knew. It also included many things you do not know yet, so in case I predict anything byany method, please do not argue like that. Regards.

 

[Trojina]

To Trojina: i-ching is not only what you knew. It also included many things you do not know yet, so in case I predict anything byany method, please do not argue like that. Regards.

I haven't argued with you I advised Bezoya she need not apologize for asking for a link because you are required to provide a link when using a method people are not familiar with.

If you are telling people that their liver is in a bad condition

ànd liver is also in bad situation.

...then you do need to back that up with some solid connection to the I Ching as a basis for your statements otherwise you are just claiming to know about the state of their liver.

 

[kttuan]

I haven't argued with you I advised Bezoya she need not apologize for asking for a link because you are required to provide a link when using a method people are not familiar with.

If you are telling people that their liver is in a bad condition




...then you do need to back that up with some solid connection to the I Ching as a basis for your statements otherwise you are just claiming to know about the state of their liver.

thank you very much.

 

[hilary]

Normally, you can be sure that any readings given at this forum are just 'plain vanilla' I Ching: they just come from the shape of the hexagrams and the words of the text, and so you should be able to open the book, retrace the interpreter's steps and see where they got their ideas. This is the approach that's described and taught all through this site.

But as kttuan says, there are other approaches - traditional systems, often based on complex calculations about the lines alone. And it's not easy to find full explanations of many of them in Western languages, which makes our 'please provide a link' rule quite tricky in practice. KT, could you write a short explanation for us in Exploring Divination? (And the Chinese name of the method?)

The main thing to know is that the 'plain vanilla' version often gives a completely different answer, so IMO it's good to decide which version of the Yi you're consulting to start with and stick with that.

A possible interpretation of the plain version:

What do you need to know about it? It's 36's 51 - Brightness Hidden/Injured, experienced as a Shock. Together, that looks like a portrait of a migraine, don't you think? The Shock also carries through in the aftermath, with you left in 'fear and terror' about what it might do next. (But do read the rest of the Judgement/Oracle - it's possible to respond to this without getting into a complete tailspin!)

I also wonder whether the 36 might not be directly about you leaving teaching, though I don't know the circumstances of that.

Anyway... the moving lines...
'Brightness hidden hunting in the south.
Gets their great leader.
Afflicted constancy is not possible.'
'Entering into the left belly,
Catching the heart of brightness hidden
And going out through the gate from the courtyard.'

My first impression from reading those two - you're hunting down the cause, and you've actually already 'caught' it: it's an effect of stress. Of course, knowing this doesn't mean you can then just carry on as normal. I think it would help to do some digging into your reaction to events - find how they become stressful.

By which I mean - and this is more me than Yi - that stress isn't things happening, but what we tell ourselves about things happening. Line 4 seems to me to say, 'OK, let's venture into the depths of the emotional response and get to the heart of it - find what it's really made of.' Then you can 'go out' from there, and I don't think you'll need to worry about migraines.

 

[kttuan]

As promised, i post here about the method of "6 yao interpretation":
1. Six lines, or yao, will be assiged a role, like casting in movie;
2. For example, in the above hexagram, inner trigram is Fire- inflame, and line 3 plays the role of "sympton"( note that this is FIXED for each hexagram in 64 ones.
3.historically, this method was literatured the first time (as we knew), in the era of Han dynastry in China (200 BC TO 200 AD).
4.methodologically, this method is used PARALELL TO traditional one (as used in this forum).you can recognise that in mathematics, an algebra problem-for example- can be solved by algebra methods, analytic method, and even geometry method.they lead to an UNIQUE interpretation.

 

[pooja123]

Hi, I use the 6 lines method with elements diagnosis. You had a migraine in July. July was Yin Earth. And late September was Yin Metal. Current year is also Earth. The ailment line is at Line 4. The stomach. Infact line 4 has the Brown OX representing the stomach. July's Yin Earth also represents the stomach liver etc. Yin metal mainly represents the lungs but it also represents intestine. Your job stress line 4 of hex 51 induced this migraine:
Legge: The fourth line, dynamic, shows its subject, amid the startling movements, supinely sinking deeper in the mud.

There is earth in the stomach. Both July and September lack water and wood element. Wood is needed to create fire. Wood also represents nutrients. Fire is blood. My guess is, you are constipated or have digestion problem due to stress. Some people stress to the point of not eating proper food and lack of fluid in the body. Constipation or even lack of food does cause migraine. Eat more veggies(wood) and Drink more water.your cure is line 1 of hex 36 :

Legge: The first line, dynamic, shows its subject with clouded perception, flying, but with drooping wings. When the superior man is about his business he may go for three days without eating. Wherever he goes, the people there may speak derisively of him.

So please eat on time. Take vitamins especially Iron and minerals. Don't skip!

 

[pooja123]

the first line 1 of hex 36 could also be advising you to go on a 3 days detox, fasting. Clearing your mind .

 

[Trojina]

but you can't advise someone to fast without knowing their medical history and you can't even really advice someone to take iron pills and vitamin pills without knowing their medical history. Well you can but I think it's a stretch to say that the I Ching is saying this.

I am afraid I find your mix of text based interpretation and weng wang gua very confusing.


36.1 was not cast but you got to that via weng wang gua but are now using text based interpretation of 3 days fasting over a line that was not received in the text based method ?


If you are using a text based method why are you interpreting 36.1 ?

I practice i-ching using wen wan gua 6 lines method along with traditional 12 animals element reading based on the time and date of the hex casting. i still use the original i-ching interpretation for clearer understanding and advice.

I don't understand your signature really. You say you use wengwanggua and 12 animal elements BUT still use original I Ching for a clearer understanding ?


So do you mean by 'original I Ching' text based interpretation ? If text based is clearer and it most certainly is, why would you bother using weng wang gua first which gives a totally different answer with no connection to the text whatsoever ?


When a person consults Yi gives them just one answer not two entirely different ones, a weng wang gua answer and a text answer so I find this confusing.


If a person begins consulting with the intention of interpreting via weng wang gua then I guess weng wang gua applies. But if a person consulted intending to interpret via the I Ching text then I don't see how a weng wang gua interpretation is applicable ?

But with the above query you have melded weng wang gua - that would be taking 36.1 from somewhere, and then applied a text based interpretation ?

@hilary;

 

[pooja123]

I do interpret using Iching interpretations. Line 1 under wenwang gua is the cure line. So i referred to this line. There is nothing wrong to use the interpretation with wen wang Gua. It is in my signature. That I do use Iching wisdom as well. I use the elements on each line to know where the querent line is , his or her problematic line, love rivalry, illness etc and each lines has a story that helps me decipher more. I based this technique under Master Alfred Huang's guidance and through his books. I'm taking courses here with Iching Masters here in Malaysia. Hopefully in a year's time i will be certified as a Master in Iching and Bazi divination.

 

[pooja123]

I didn't imply I-ching said that you must take mineral. It is my own advice as I suffered from migraines too due to lack of iron and some minerals in my blood. Plus the wen wang gua lines showed that both the blood (fire) and wood (water and ether) elements missing on the day of the reading. I'm only advising, it is up to the querent to take my advice or not. And yes you are right about giving medical advice. i would suggest the querent to take a blood test and medical check up, just to be sure.

 

[Freedda]

To Trojina: i-ching is not only what you knew. It also included many things you do not know yet, so in case I predict anything byany method, please do not argue like that. Regards.

Kttuan: Trojina is not arguing with you, but just asking that you identify the method you're using when it's one that is not common or is unfamiliar to most of us. Your 'detail six lines method' is in this group, as is the Wen Wang Gua method, as well as many others I'm guessing.

There is nothing wrong with using them, or posting responses based on them. It's only good to note that is what you are doing so people are not confused and go looking for something in the I Ching translations that is not there, or is not immediately understandable. It's not a judgement on what you are doing.

Regards, David.

 

[Trojina]

So you think if a person consults Yi with the idea they are consulting the book, the text, that weng wang gua interpretation applies ?

I don't. I can't see how it can when it is so far removed from the I Ching, the book, says. I don't see how the text based way and the weng wang gua way apply at the same time, they can't do.


In this thread we now have 3 differing ways of interpreting. We have this

kttuan
As promised, i post here about the method of "6 yao interpretation":
1. Six lines, or yao, will be assiged a role, like casting in movie;
2. For example, in the above hexagram, inner trigram is Fire- inflame, and line 3 plays the role of "sympton"( note that this is FIXED for each hexagram in 64 ones.
3.historically, this method was literatured the first time (as we knew), in the era of Han dynastry in China (200 BC TO 200 AD).
4.methodologically, this method is used PARALELL TO traditional one (as used in this forum).you can recognise that in mathematics, an algebra problem-for example- can be solved by algebra methods, analytic method, and even geometry method.they lead to an UNIQUE interpretation.

and we have yours

I practice i-ching using wen wan gua 6 lines method along with traditional 12 animals element reading based on the time and date of the hex casting. i still use the original i-ching interpretation for clearer understanding and advice.

and we have text based interpretation which is the most commonly used approach here and also the approach people intend to use when they consult Yi.

People do differ in text based interpretations a great deal it's true but at least we are all referring to the same book, the I Ching, the book the person consulted when they consulted.


If using a very different method/ approach there needs to be a link in the signature and there is no link in the signatures of either kttuan or you. By link I mean a link to a full explanation over in Exploring Divination about the method you use. Whether that's there or not isn't down to me and it's not my problem, not even my business, I'm just saying I think there's a lot of confusion created in threads when a person consults the I Ching, the book, casts a certain cast with lines and then you interpret completely different lines switiching back and forth between weng wang gua and text based approach.

Plus the wen wang gua lines showed that both the blood (fire) and wood (water and ether) elements missing on the day of the reading.

I don't see how that applies unless the person consulted having the intention of using weng wang gua in interpretation.

.

 

[hilary]

Well, the first thing I notice is that the original poster seems to have disappeared. This is a shame, but it means I don't feel too bad about derailing the thread with a discussion of methods and forum etiquette.

I agree with Trojina's point that we should respect the intentions of the original caster. If they intended to consult WWG, then this should be used in the answer. If not... then of course you can still offer that perspective, but it needs to be very, very clear that this is not what they had in mind when they cast. You could say something like,

'You should avoid fasting. I take this from 36, line 1 - which is not part of the reading you cast, but in a reading using Wen Wang Gua method it would be important because...'

etc.

It wouldn't be so important to say this if the two methods gave similar or complementary answers, but they don't. Here we have...

• one traditional interpretation saying 'dig into the causes of your stress response' but overall not to worry
• one WWG-ish interpretation saying 'this started with inflammation in the bones of your knee and thigh; now you have heart and liver problems you need to treat.'
• another WWG-ish interpretation saying, 'this is caused by stress-induced digestive problems and/or constipation, and you should eat more regularly and take supplements.'

(Forgive me for saying 'WWG-ish' - it seems you both describe your method as '6 lines' but come up with different recommendations. Is this because you're using different methods?)

This Yijing reading could certainly be interpreted differently, but it could not under any circumstances be made to say 'inflammation in the knee bone' and it would take quite some effort to make it say 'constipation'. (Well, we could be literal-minded about 'the left belly,' I suppose...!) These diagnoses are just not what the Yijing - by which I mean the unique oracle, made of the marriage of lines and texts, that is the topic of this forum - is saying.

These three answers are not complementary. Bezoya cannot use them all together but is going to have to choose which to believe. How can s/he make the choice - and how can we provide the information needed for that?

I think we can best protect the interests of people asking for help here by being absolutely crystal clear about the source of our answers. That gives the querent the chance to weigh up the information and decide for themselves how to use it.

That goes for everyone regardless of method - it's why you will see people saying things like 'this is not from the reading, it's just my personal opinion' - but it is particularly important when you're making detailed interpretations like these.

Also, I think the best readings allow the querent to see where they came from, retrace the interpreter's steps and decide whether this resonates for them. Obviously this is going to be harder with a system that takes years to learn, but it is important at least to give them the chance to do this. Hence the rule about providing information in your signature.

We haven't been completely clear about whether a link is a required part of this information, but it really would help. If nothing else, please can you each find a Wikipedia article about your chosen method/s and link to that?

 

[Trojina]

Bezoya didn't start the thread gael123 did

To Trojina: i-ching is not only what you knew. It also included many things you do not know yet

kttuan
With 36.3.4, i can read something about it:
1.cause: you had an inflame in knee or/and thigh(in bones), so you heart is weak, ànd liver is also in bad situation.
2. Treatment: any food/medicine which reduce liver operation from over operating to nornal operating

.

Frankly it isn't even ethical to tell someone on an I Ching forum they have a weak heart and a weak liver. You can't possibly know that so when you say there's things I don't know it's true, I don't claim to know things about the state of someone's actual heart or liver. Hopefully most people would take that with a pinch of salt but there are some people who it really might worry, they might actually believe they had a bad heart.

This is part of the ethics of any divinatory system. You don't say things that may alarm a person unduly especially when you have no good evidence to say it. Whatever system you were using you would not have a basis for telling them they have a bad heart and a bad liver. If you were working with them privately in person using acupuncture and other methods yes, you might pick up the heart meridian is weak or something like that. But from 36.3.4 over the internet telling someone they have a bad heart and liver - no it's not a good thing to do.


I don't think weng wang gua and other methods like it work well in SR, I think they create confusion and people aren't expecting it. Maybe a solution is a separate wengwanggua sub-forum so if people want that they go there. Then again maybe that is too complicated and links is the best we can aim for.


I'm not a weng wang gua fan or any of those kinds of methods fan. To me it seems a highly complex way to come to ordinary conclusions. Were all those complex calculations necessary to come up with the idea of constipation for example ?

 

[Trojina]

@hilary;

We haven't been completely clear about whether a link is a required part of this information,

We have. It is written in the rules here it states it clearly


https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?8285-How-the-I-Ching-Community-works



From there you wrote some years ago

One other rule

If something about the way you do readings is unfamiliar to most members (eg the method, the text), please edit your signature to include a link to an explanation. (You can always write this yourself in Exploring Divination.)

So we don't have to re-invent the wheel the rule is already there and stated as a rule.

Links to explanations is a good idea because then those who are wengwanggua fans can go and read all about it - and those who are puzzled can go and read all about it. But we have no links in the signatures yet ?

 

[hilary]

Bezoya didn't start the thread gael123 did

Oops, true, sorry.

Frankly it isn't even ethical to tell someone on an I Ching forum they have a weak heart and a weak liver. You can't possibly know that so when you say there's things I don't know it's true, I don't claim to know things about the state of someone's actual heart or liver...

That's certainly arguable. But then is it any more ethical for me to offer an interpretation that says it's caused by stress? I can't possible know that with 100% certainty either. What if Gael decides not to go to a dr based on my reading?

I think we have to assume people are adults and can choose for themselves what weight to give to an interpretation.

I don't think weng wang gua and other methods like it work well in SR, I think they create confusion and people aren't expecting it. Maybe a solution is a separate wengwanggua sub-forum so if people want that they go there. Then again maybe that is too complicated and links is the best we can aim for.

The subforum is an interesting idea but could take quite a bit of policing, running round asking people where their ideas come from.

We haven't been completely clear about whether a link is a required part of this information,

We have. It is written in the rules here ...

Good point. I meant in moderator communications saying 'please update your signature' I haven't been clear.

 

[Trojina]

That's certainly arguable. But then is it any more ethical for me to offer an interpretation that says it's caused by stress? I can't possible know that with 100% certainty either. What if Gael decides not to go to a dr based on my reading?

Well yes I think there's a world of difference between suggesting someone is stressed - (don't we almost do that in casual conversation ) and stating categorically, as if a fact, that someone has a 'bad heart' and 'bad liver'. Even just saying this to a rational person leaves a bad taste since there can be a suggestion sown your heart is 'bad' or your liver is 'bad'.

I think we have to assume people are adults and can choose for themselves what weight to give to an interpretation.

I suppose so but I do think telling someone on here they have a bad heart is an irresponsible thing to say. You could say none of us have any responsibility to the others we answer at all, but if there were no sense of responsibility it wouldn't be a good place.

 

[pooja123]

Hi Everyone, So the reason why I suggested fasting , it is because under wen wang gua the Joy star Wood Rabbit (km) or also known as Healing star for health reading fell on the bottom line. Of course I would suggest to go for medical check up befiore fasting. I am from a culture and religious background that practice fasting. (Hindu, Islam). 3 days doesnt hurt. I usually do it for 40 days for certain afflictions caused by the planets or stars (I fast for 10- 12 hours and break the fast in the evening with fruits and veggies). Of course this is not suitable for some one who has never tried fasting. You need experts or doctors for advice. The OP received line 3 and line 4, the cause of the migraines. Line 1 is the healing line. I have several books that suggested the same (fasting). I attached an excerpt from Wu Wei's book I-Ching the book of answers.