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Moderation?

I think this forum would be best with...

  • About the same amount of moderation as it has now (ie next to none)

    Votes: 28 44.4%
  • More moderator intervention to prevent personal attacks and flaming

    Votes: 33 52.4%
  • Even less moderator intervention than there is now

    Votes: 2 3.2%

  • Total voters
    63

hattah

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I have the distinct feeling that some characters are creating bogus accounts just to vote and push the poll in their preferred direction... Good thing IP addresses don't lie.

wouldn't it show them as brand new people? The join date I mean? or would it take the IP and push the date back? :confused:

Hilary said
You're kidding? Surely people have better things to do? Well, I can check.

Like you have a few extra hours in the day for that. :brickwall:
Anyway. Wouldn't surprise me but then nothing does any more. :D
 

Sparhawk

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You're kidding? Surely people have better things to do? Well, I can check.

Actually, I was thinking aloud. I wasn't asking you to check anything. It doesn't really affect me one way or the others, but, seriously, how many times have you seen 63 different people come out of the woods in Clarity and vote in any one issue? Furthermore, how seriously can you take an overwhelming vote for more moderation from people that, for the most part, are lurkers and not active participants?
 

Sparhawk

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wouldn't it show them as brand new people? The join date I mean? or would it take the IP and push the date back? :confused:

Actually, that's what sparked my suspicion. Quite a few NEW people are commenting on these threads, that have only 2 or 3 posts. From there I thought of the poll votes, which are anonymous for everyone but the sysop.
 

hattah

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Actually, that's what sparked my suspicion. Quite a few NEW people are commenting on these threads, that have only 2 or 3 posts. From there I thought of the poll votes, which are anonymous for everyone but the sysop.

Certainly wouldn't seem as though they would have much invested here would it?
hmmmmmm.

However if someone is doing that kind of tweaking they must have something invested here (or not much else to do)

except :stir:
 

Trojina

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Actually, I was thinking aloud. I wasn't asking you to check anything. It doesn't really affect me one way or the others, but, seriously, how many times have you seen 63 different people come out of the woods in Clarity and vote in any one issue? Furthermore, how seriously can you take an overwhelming vote for more moderation from people that, for the most part, are lurkers and not active participants?

precisely.
 

hilary

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Actually, I was thinking aloud. I wasn't asking you to check anything. It doesn't really affect me one way or the others, but, seriously, how many times have you seen 63 different people come out of the woods in Clarity and vote in any one issue? Furthermore, how seriously can you take an overwhelming vote for more moderation from people that, for the most part, are lurkers and not active participants?

Actually, I specifically asked people to vote (and comment if they're so inclined) even if they're not regular participants - to overcome the self-selection bias, that naturally the people who make more posts here are probably reasonably happy with how it is now - or can live with it, anyway. (Whereas those who are members for years without posting...)

Which reminds me... thank you for voting and posting - and welcome in, those who are new.

Between my email (sent to 1,860 people of whom 213 clicked one of the links) and several people's signature files (thank you), the 63 votes don't surprise me. At a quick glance, I recognise the names of 23 voters for more moderation (of whom maybe 20 are or have been regular participants) and 15 voters for no change.

In short - your suspicions are misplaced. Which is good.
 

proserpine

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Hilary ,I've been thinking of this a bit.
I asked myself what my feelings are, and what I see here--w/o expecting myself to have any answers.
And it is something I've thought of before, though not with much aim to explain or clarify before this.
I think our problem here, especially that you've been talking about re: Shared Readings, maybe a 13 Fellowship with Men, or maybe 8 Holding Together.
Do you think maybe?:) My feeling all along, was that there are so many differnt levels of awarenes and understanding here. To say nothing of different ages, backgrounds--which might not matter--but demographics do matter sometimes.
I know that might be part of what attracts people too--all different types and levels of knowledge attracts more of the same.

I know originally, I thought this was a very nice site, but I felt like most people I saw in places like Shared Readings were real new to the I Ching, and I wasn't inspired or interested by them, except to sometimes answer someone with whom I either could relate, or perhaps someone whose question and reading was something I knew I could answer for certain with what I'd already experienced.
Anyway, to continue, there are people who know almost nothing, people who know a little, people who know a lot, people who are more academic in their knowledge,people more intuitive.
That's only saying a little too.
But how are we to understand one another and agree on most things?
I try and don't always feel very comfortable.
Sometimes I feel intimidated,and then sometimes I want to say how much I know esp. if someone else is babbling and I'm impatient.

If you hapen to have many folks who are quite experienced in reading the I--maybe it's like a bunch of doctors or teachers--when one gives a diagnosis, another may feel that his or her new colleague has left out important knowledge or even left out something crucial.

Using the Doctor analaogy: I know many doctors, and when I see them professionally they're very pleasant and agreeable about another's decision, which I appreciate.
But then if I know the person who is the doctor,and we get to chatting, or he /she considers me a friend or (almost) ;)equal, I often hear odd little digs about some of the medication I've already been given, or a humourous remark about the youth and lack of experience of the other doctor.
I sometimes agree and appreciate, sometimes I feel annoyed. I think that is what happens here, from what I see. I never thought about teaching anyone how to use the I Ching, though, honestly I do that with some special friends of mine.

But most do not want to learn how to do it or what books to read--they want me to tell them what it says.
And I think it's the same here--though I may have misinterpreted that, it just seems that way..(?)


I'm not sure about anyone rushing to be the first to answer a querent, but I do know I see attitudes erupting and loftiness going on...even among those of who who would rather not... behave loftily.(LOL) :eek:
 

Trojina

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The drs analogy amused me. Its true they disagree about diagnosis and treatments and so on but they all abide by the same code of ethics, its fundamental, they cannot even continue to practise as Drs if they break the code of ethics (or whatever its called).

When i studied astrology a long time ago there was a code of ethics for practising that, (as in what you said to those you counselled) and i think its so for other divinatory practises too but obviously nothing as formal as Drs oaths, more like a general awareness. One of these ethical considerations i consider fairly fundamental is not promising specific outcomes as it can be psychologically harmful, rob a person of a sense of autonomy, lead to false expectations and so on.

To me this is the absolute key issue of differences in the Shared readings area. Nothing to do with differences of opinion about readings, that hardly matters or is all good for discussion.


Once a forum becomes a place where actual advice is dished out to real people a certain level of responsibility must be assumed IMO especially where promises of certain outcomes are being made. Till that key issue is addressed the rest of discussion regarding that area is fairly cosmetic i think, for IMO that is what is wrong there. Its nothing to do with how people get on or people having different opinions or bullying, its that one key issue that is never adressed or acknowleged, constantly being smudged over by irrelevant discussions about getting along with others and all that......again


I am repeating the same thoughts I aired some years back in similar discussions...your Dr analogy reminded me...not that divining can be too closely compared with doctoring lol but I'm fairly clear for myself its essential to have a few ethical guidleines in place if one is using divination...and one of those for me is most certainly it is not ethical to promise (as if it were known for certain which of course it never is, at least not in forum land) certain future outcomes for other people, in a forum like this at least...maybe other circumstances its different, say on a one to one, where theres close empathic understanding etc...but here to see it is just frankly pretty disturbing IMO...

thats my opinion only, i don't think anyone else here actually shares it but it is the main reason i decided not to participate in that area. I think I'm doing a 43.3 on this one only without the noble part..:rolleyes: .meanwhile people are going on about rules and buttons and the psychology of bullying, everything except what actually matters ...IMO of course



not that I'm always right, just 99.9% of the time (wink)
 
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bamboo

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I think some people are going to read definitively , and refer to outcomes they see as part of the reading. The counterpart to that can be those who offer less definitive readings, more "what ifs" ...sharing of how a reading played out in the past. even suggesting that a reading may only refer to the way things are heading right now.

The responsibility for doctors as well for mental health professionals is "first do no harm" ....In Divination readings, I personally think that emphatically squashing a person's hopes is definitely under this umbrella...regardless of how 'negative' a reading may look at first glance.

BUt everybody knows doctors have different bedside manners..some are rude and overly clinical, and others are kinder, more people oriented. My mom saw a doctor about her blood sugar reading which was just over the normal reading and he coldly told her "you have diabetes, that's it, you need to do this, that and the other thing, blah, blah...." and he sent her home crying and all upset. His approach was was not only uncaring and rather cruel ( as she had been a chocolate fanatic for years and felt her whole life was collapsing, I am not kidding!) but he was also not entirely correct. Other doctors had a softer approach and worked with her on modifying diet and other strategies...she is allowed to have occasional chocolates, eg.

My point is though that a doctor doesnt lose his license for having poor manners. and a patient is free to go get a second opinion. In this forum, we have the opprtunity to suggest counter approaches to readings, it isnt like the querent has to accept any one's word as law.

what often has bothered me is not the readings that are definitive...BUT that many times, querents come in with hopefulness and very auspicious readings, only to be told "dont get your hopes up " in so many words. That I think is just as harmful as anything else. Hope is a thing with wings, as they say, and I love to see the potential for hopefulness cultivated.

I am not talking about sugar-coating a reading that bodes ill for the question .... BUt especially readings that are hopeful - - should be treated with respect !!

More than I have ever seen definitive readings as potentially 'harmful" ( hardly ever, really) I have seen unnecessary analysis take all the sweetness out of a reading or an idea.
 

pantherpanther

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I think some people are going to read definitively , and refer to outcomes they see as part of the reading. The counterpart to that can be those who offer less definitive readings, more "what ifs" ...sharing of how a reading played out in the past. even suggesting that a reading may only refer to the way things are heading right now.

The responsibility for doctors as well for mental health professionals is "first do no harm" ....In Divination readings, I personally think that emphatically squashing a person's hopes is definitely under this umbrella...regardless of how 'negative' a reading may look at first glance.

BUt everybody knows doctors have different bedside manners..some are rude and overly clinical, and others are kinder, more people oriented. My mom saw a doctor about her blood sugar reading which was just over the normal reading and he coldly told her "you have diabetes, that's it, you need to do this, that and the other thing, blah, blah...." and he sent her home crying and all upset. His approach was was not only uncaring and rather cruel ( as she had been a chocolate fanatic for years and felt her whole life was collapsing, I am not kidding!) but he was also not entirely correct. Other doctors had a softer approach and worked with her on modifying diet and other strategies...she is allowed to have occasional chocolates, eg.

My point is though that a doctor doesnt lose his license for having poor manners. and a patient is free to go get a second opinion. In this forum, we have the opprtunity to suggest counter approaches to readings, it isnt like the querent has to accept any one's word as law.

what often has bothered me is not the readings that are definitive...BUT that many times, querents come in with hopefulness and very auspicious readings, only to be told "dont get your hopes up " in so many words. That I think is just as harmful as anything else. Hope is a thing with wings, as they say, and I love to see the potential for hopefulness cultivated.

I am not talking about sugar-coating a reading that bodes ill for the question .... BUt especially readings that are hopeful - - should be treated with respect !!

More than I have ever seen definitive readings as potentially 'harmful" ( hardly ever, really) I have seen unnecessary analysis take all the sweetness out of a reading or an idea.

bamboo.
A friend in UK wrote me:
"I've just come across a survey by Eldon Taylor, purveyor of subliminal self-help materials, in which he asked a number of cancer patients and their doctors to rate their own attitudes to a number of propositions, including that the mind strongly influences physical healing. The patients used Taylor's "Cancer Remission" program and their progress or lack thereof was monitored. Overall, 38% of the "terminal" patients studied were in remission at the conclusion of the study. This rose to 46% for those whose physicians agreed to some extent that the mind played some role in health - and to 60% for those whose physician's strongly agreed with that proposition. When both patient and physician strongly agreed, the remission rate was 100%. [According to the summary in Taylor's own book "Choices and Illusions".]
 

Trojina

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BUt everybody knows doctors have different bedside manners..some are rude and overly clinical, and others are kinder, more people oriented. My mom saw a doctor about her blood sugar reading which was just over the normal reading and he coldly told her "you have diabetes, that's it, you need to do this, that and the other thing, blah, blah...." and he sent her home crying and all upset. His approach was was not only uncaring and rather cruel ( as she had been a chocolate fanatic for years and felt her whole life was collapsing, I am not kidding!) but he was also not entirely correct. Other doctors had a softer approach and worked with her on modifying diet and other strategies...she is allowed to have occasional chocolates, eg.

My point is though that a doctor doesnt lose his license for having poor manners. and a patient is free to go get a second opinion. In this forum, we have the opprtunity to suggest counter approaches to readings, it isnt like the querent has to accept any one's word as law.

what often has bothered me is not the readings that are definitive...BUT that many times, querents come in with hopefulness and very auspicious readings, only to be told "dont get your hopes up " in so many words. That I think is just as harmful as anything else. Hope is a thing with wings, as they say, and I love to see the potential for hopefulness cultivated.

I am not talking about sugar-coating a reading that bodes ill for the question .... BUt especially readings that are hopeful - - should be treated with respect !!

More than I have ever seen definitive readings as potentially 'harmful" ( hardly ever, really) I have seen unnecessary analysis take all the sweetness out of a reading or an idea.

It is probably better that Drs don't either promote hopelessness or certainty of recovery when it really isn't known. Agreed predicting certainty of recovery may be much more helpful in some instances, where the dr has every reason to think it likley. If highly unlikley seems cruel, but then again also it may be undesirable to take away all hope .

We can't take the Dr analogy too far before it falls apart because obviously Drs have much more certain ways of knowing diagnosis than using the I Ching ! We here actually simply don't know certain outcomes in readings for others. Do we often even for ourselves ? We do not have medical tests to ascertain if a relationship will be successful !

Anyway I'm not wishing to debate the point when I know most people, if not all, don't see this as even slightly important. If the above quoted is your view fine, you can happily go on posting there as most do.

I was replying to Proserpine because I wanted to say to her IMO all this discussion about
moderation, bullying, buttons, dog training and so on won't for me make much difference to the fact that Shared Readings is a totally different country from the rest of the forum. Just saying something is better doesn't make it better despite all the new age manifesto.

Theres no point us talking about it as we already know each others views well enough by now, but BTW If you are referring to me as taking away hope I would also point out others do this too sometimes only in a much more definate way...yet you never comment on that do you. There are negative promises of outcome too yet you don't see those..... And who is to say what is 'unecessary analysis', thats a totally subjective judgment. .

Happy Shredded Readings !!..
 
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heylise

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When suddenly the definitive readings made their entrance, I sometimes tried to put it into perspective, only to get a lot of angry cussing from the original reader. To others the same thing happened. I thought I would have to leave Clarity altogether, because I could not square this with my own conscience. Being there and letting it go, meant I agreed with it.

The "solution" was the sticky about the querent's own responsibility, and the reader's not being all-knowing. That way I could simply forget about the Shared Readings and still go to the Discussion Forum. It was not a very satisfying solution but at least something.

A reader who gives definitive answers is not that big a problem to me, but the impossibility to say anything about it, even just a different answer, that was what I could not accept. So doing something about the posts which tear down another post seemed (to me) to solve at least part of the problem.
 

bamboo

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I would also point out others do this too sometimes only in a much more definate way...yet you never comment on that do you. There are negative promises of outcome too yet you don't see those..... And who is to say what is 'unecessary analysis', thats a totally subjective judgment. .

Happy Shredded Readings !!..

Trojan,
Over the years , I have seen many instances of shredded hope .......I just thought
I would mention it, since it strikes me as part of this discussion. Why would you think I wouldnt feel the same way about negative promises of outcome?! Of course I do.....but a certain thing that has always puzzled me is why sometimes a very hopeful reading will be over-analyzed to the point where even a 14.6 or a 50.6 is looked upn with a kind of cynical suspicion
all seemingly to just be sure one doesnt go away with "false hope" .......that makes no sense to me. I am not talking about promises, which personally I find contrary to the Book of Changes, but just acknowledging the potential.

But thats been my feeling and I think I have a right to say it as well.

You continually speak as if your opposition to definitive readings is overlooked, ignored, skirted........and it is just not true. The way of the forum to allow for differing voices has now been even more firmly established than ever before. The sticky was first, and now the whole idea that opposing voices need to be respected.

what I think you really want is for definitive readings to be banned completely. Unfortunately , this is not what the majority of newbie querents seem to want at all. BUt besides that, it just doesnt make sense that if you felt so strongly for the querents, you wouldnt be more inclined to offer your own voice!

If people with more sensitive approaches speak up, the forum becomes diverse and rich. If they leave disgruntled because of their own principles, then the forum is left to those who do speak up. It seems to accomplish the opposite of what you want:duh:
 

Trojina

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Trojan,
Over the years , I have seen many instances of shredded hope .......I just thought
I would mention it, since it strikes me as part of this discussion. Why would you think I wouldnt feel the same way about negative promises of outcome?! Of course I do.....but a certain thing that has always puzzled me is why sometimes a very hopeful reading will be over-analyzed to the point where even a 14.6 or a 50.6 is looked upn with a kind of cynical suspicion
all seemingly to just be sure one doesnt go away with "false hope" .......that makes no sense to me. I am not talking about promises, which personally I find contrary to the Book of Changes, but just acknowledging the potential.

this is all down to personal perspective. I've seen some of your interpretations where I can't see how you got to the conclusion you did. Someone saying something like 'is this relationship on' and you replied "sure thing" or something like that and as far as i was concerned there was no way you would know it was a sure thing at all. Besides this isn't about differences interpretation and you know it. As for the 'over analysing' comment well who is to say what is 'over analysing', well a shallow person might i suppose :mischief:

If you find promises so contrary to the 'Book of Changes' as you call it here, then why don't you put your money where your mouth is and actually say that over there...well i think i know the answer to that question !



what I think you really want is for definitive readings to be banned completely. Unfortunately , this is not what the majority of newbie querents seem to want at all. BUt besides that, it just doesnt make sense that if you felt so strongly for the querents, you wouldnt be more inclined to offer your own voice!



Do you know how many questions I've addressed in the last few years on Shredded Readings...often purely to give a balance ? I got tired of doing so when it was clear noone else even cared about that area, not even Hilary. At the risk of sounding petulant I answered many many more than you have ever done, so not sure how you can even say this quite frankly. Many times answers where someone was told what to do just slipped by, noone else commented at all and this started to happen more and more until......

People stopped giving other approaches, thats much of what this whole recent spate of discussions has been about, can't you see that ? If all was fine just as it is in Shared Readings why would you say theres been so much discussion about it.




And re what newbies want :duh: isn't it obvious if people see they can come to be told exactly what to do more and more people who want to be told what to do will turn up


Its like with newspaper if you just print scandal in the end the only people who buy the paper will be those who like scandal...something to do with the law of supply and demand..or something ? You say I over analyse but I think you underanalyse and you fail to see implications only the surface of things.


I'm really not interested in talking further about it with you now anyway, its pointless. I was addressing Proserpine in my earlier post, not you, I'm quite aware you heard it all before and likewise I heard all what you have to say about it before and know you always have totally missed the point.

It will be as it will be, all down to Hilary I suppose.
 
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willowfox

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I personally blame cows, as they are a number one source of hot air, and all that gas they produce just pollutes the atmosphere.
 

hilary

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Please don't let this thread become a test case.
 

proserpine

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Friends..I'm perplexed. I'm not sure whether I was understood or not.When I used that Dr. analogy,I wasn't intending it to be exact.I know MDs have a hippocratic oath, and yes, they can be rude or be very pleasant, and yet not have broken the law, either way.If it makes more sense, use "teachers" or philosphers..What I was getting at is that when we have knowledgable people, some very much so, and some a little less, but still quite experienced and knowlegable themselves--we seem to have grunts and snorts, and curmudgeon-ly behavior.LOL.
Trojan, you were saying that none of this is the real problem in your opinion.
I have seen folks say something is a definite--but while I'm in agreement with you that that isn't right as a rule,I honestly don't think that' the big problem.
That's what's bothering *you* evidently.
What concerns me more is that of attitudes flying around.
I never disliked *you* at all, and never had one porblem with you or even a negative thought* about you.I'm totally surprised that you believe you're not heard..
You're constantly saying how Hilary isn't owning up to things, isn't listening...it sounds like you're expecting something of Hilary that isn't about Hilary.This whole thing makes me think that perhaos a "Those who are furious" thread(can't remember the Italian) would be useful[.
Because then you could call out the perpetrators by name,and get it off your chest.I can see the value of that myself, because right now all this palaver and blaming from many folks is getting on my nerves.
 

bamboo

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Trojan, I just have to say no one, esp me, has missed your point. (How could we?) It is the ideas for the remedy that are different. Talk about 38 and 6 being similar...Dobro should read this thread.

and finally, I don't say anything about other people's readings because I don't feel it necessary to fight about different ways to read. The BOok of Changes implies potential for change .....but if someone wants to read definitively about a reading at hand, what is that to me? Why would I ever want to write something just to dispute someone else's method? Who am I to say that at any given time they are wrong and I am right?
 

Trojina

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Trojan, you were saying that none of this is the real problem in your opinion.
I have seen folks say something is a definite--but while I'm in agreement with you that that isn't right as a rule,I honestly don't think that' the big problem.
That's what's bothering *you* evidently.
What concerns me more is that of attitudes flying around.
I never disliked *you* at all, and never had one porblem with you or even a negative thought* about you.I'm totally surprised that you believe you're not heard..

I have never had any reason to think you disliked me so you have no need to tell me you never disliked me :confused: What does disliking anyone really have to do with any of this...absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned. I've never even considered if you had a 'negative thought' about me...why would I, whats that have to do with anything at all..I neither like or dislike you, I don't know you and you don't know me.

If you have a different idea of the 'problem' thats fine by me I was just giving you mine.

.This whole thing makes me think that perhaos a "Those who are furious" thread(can't remember the Italian) would be useful[.
Because then you could call out the perpetrators by name,and get it off your chest.I can see the value of that myself, because right now all this palaver and blaming from many folks is getting on my nerves.

We have had entire lengthy 'furious' threads of calling 'perpetrators by name', have you never seen them ?! Some are pretty old, years even, so you wouldn't know if you weren't here, but quite frankly they served no purpose just as this conversation doesn't...so your suggestion about a 'furious' thread is pretty obsolete. If giving you my perspective on this gets on your nerves then i guess its better to forget i ever said anything and return to whatever it was you were talking about before...

Love and Light :rolleyes:
Yours in neutrality T xx

(PS I am enjoying seeing your interpretations in shared readings...)
 
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Trojina

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Trojan, I just have to say no one, esp me, has missed your point. (How could we?) It is the ideas for the remedy that are different. Talk about 38 and 6 being similar...Dobro should read this thread.

go do the remedy then ;) actions speak louder than words. I hope to see the remedy really remedy, i really do...for longer than a month anyway.
 
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solun

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Hi all, and thank you Hilary for this ... it has gotten uncomfortable here at times.
There are some darker energies that show up occassionally and we have all seen this at sites on the web ... it's sadly nothing new and is a part of life. But such experiences can be used to learn from.

I haven't voted yet but will probably vote for same moderation as is now.
I think it is each individuals own responsibility to moderate themselves. That applies to those who know how. If someone's post or response makes you feel sick or icky because of their negativity, etc., step over it. We are responsible for who and what we interact with, we choose our battles. The constant (not occasional) posturing, arguing, digs, etc., and overuse of the site is not immoderate, it is abusive. We can choose not to add to the misfortune in not feeding the negativity. I know that's easier said than done at times, because darkness has it's way with our egos, but really, consider how you want to spend your time here ...
It's also important how we say things and in what spirit we receive them. If you are too easily offended, there is no love there. And if someone is trying to drag you into something ugly, why pick it up? why?
My point is that if you feed certain energies with your attentions, they will grow.
Sometimes people feel the need to clarify or defend and that is certainly their right. But just know that you have the option to walk away from a contentious poster anytime, there is no law in the universe that says you have to answer back.
Yes, it's too bad there are those who feel the need to attack others opinions and experience for whatever reason, who feel compulsively bound to comment and argue and in profusion ...
you can still toss it aside and continue on with those who are genuinely friendly and helpful.
No one will think less of you if you do. And if those darker energies aren't fed, they will hopefully diminish in time.

As for sparhawk's mention that there are people posting under many or several different names (for whatever reason) ... I began to suspect that several months ago.

:):):) cheers and joy!
 

solun

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I need to clarify the 'darker energies' expression. It doesn't necessarily refer to one posting entity in confinement but rather energies we are all susceptible to from time to time. Although, there are characters who represent themselves with some regularity.
And i see that I am six days after the last poster and missed the poll so I really am a snail like my icon shows!

but anyway, here goes:

If I speak in tongues of men and angels but have not love, I am but a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not haughty. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices in the truth.
Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
It's time to put away childish things. One day prophecies, tongues, knowledge - all will disappear, will cease. We are now just a poor reflection of truth and love. One day all will be known. But what is now left are faith, hope and love. Love is the greatest.

from 1Corinthians13 NT
 
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hilary

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Thanks for writing, even though you did miss the poll. Hopefully what emerges will feel good to you.

there is no law in the universe that says you have to answer back.
:D
But goodness knows there are enough inner reasons saying I absolutely have to answer back. Maybe until everyone agrees I'm right, or until everyone agrees I'm nice, or preferably both...
:rofl:
 

solun

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understandably Hilary! And you are right! and you are nice! :);):bows:
 

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