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Moon almost full 61>38

yxeli

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Well it was a full moon last night, and I think yi's 61.4 in relation to this question might have extra weight as a result.

Its about me and my ex. i worded it from his perspective, as in 'what is his position regarding me now'. I do also apply the answer directly to me, but I really cant help asking yi about other people. (Sorry if this ticks some members off!)

61.4 'the team horse goes astray'. I have read into this line, and it might be as obvious in relationship questions as his inner truth has left me, as in the depth of connection we once held is gone? I wonder if it as definitive as 23.3 'he splits with them',or whether there's more to this line i'm not quite understanding.


61.5 is a lovely line to draw though in relationship readings, no? Or is this an emphasis on the preceeding line in as much as 'if you accept that this connection is gone, your inner confidence and truth can (line 5) can return, i can start believeing in myself and my own heart again?


61 to 38, just as a model, is a very wierd combination isnt it? The connectivity and heartfelt belief and truth in yourself compared to opposition?? in a copy by brian browne walker who i very rarely consult, his first line of 38 is 'misunderstanding truth creates opposition' .

yet another way to look at it ( a method i noticed in 61 in wikiwing) is to say that 61 magnifies the inner meaning of the relating hexagram, so the inner truth of opposition.


It all seems quite fricken dreary. But line 4 is giving me strange feedback, as in the translations seem to vary quite a bit.


Thanks everyone


Yx
 

foxx777

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You know, I have always had mixed feelings about 61.4, and have received it a lot regarding personal relationships.

Emotional I Ching has it as, "The horse team is dead." :eek: Boy, has that scared me at times...

Below, Berkers has a simple and elegant take on the line. ( After many years of consulting Wilhelm, Legge, and Richard Lynn translations and commentary, I now find LIse and Berkers to be more quiet and concise, less political,social,and scholarly. Celestial Dragon is another good one for refreshing pared down elegance. Cannot find it lately, tho.:mad:)

In any case, in my mind 38 is auspicious, as it is about overcoming estrangement, really:
:bows::)

61. Inner Trust

Inner trust of piglets and fishes.
Good fortune.
It is beneficial to cross the big river.
It is beneficial to persist.

Having confidence like piglets and fishes have. Things go well. This is a good moment for big undertakings. Keep going on.
(Inner trust is trust in oneself: confidence. The natural behavior of young pigs and of fish is with a lot of confidence.)


Line 4:

The moon is nearly full.
One of the pair of horses runs away.
Without fault.

One goes one's own way, in order to be true to oneself. This is a good moment for that. It is not wrong to do so.
(The moon being nearly full, means that the amount of light at night is at this maximum the coming days. Things are at it's clearest now.)


Line 5:

Having a trusting relationship.
Without fault.

A connection to someone where each can trust the other. Nothing wrong with that.

Hexagram is changing to:

38. Estranged

Estranged.
In small matters, good fortune.

Being estranged from someone, there is a sense of being separated. Things that are not too important will go well.
 
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foxx777

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Here is Emotional I ching's commentary on line 4 of 61: Taken together with your literal full moon synchronicity, I think this has added weight. One has used up one's strength, and to go further is not possible at present:

"Almost full moon. The horse team is dead. No fault in this."

[In the position of a minister(line 4) rather than a noble (line 5), the brightest one can become is as bright as the full moon reflecting the light of the noble. To achieve this one has used up all of one's strength.

Be wary of excess (arrogance). One's yielding core can never become more than a full moon

and here is line 5 from that site: I find the Wooing and Influence connections to indicate good augury at some future point:

Being balanced, things bind together. No harm in this." [A hard exterior unites with a yielding heart. Influence/Wooing]
 

yxeli

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Line 4:

The moon is nearly full.
One of the pair of horses runs away.
Without fault.

One goes one's own way, in order to be true to oneself. This is a good moment for that. It is not wrong to do so.
(The moon being nearly full, means that the amount of light at night is at this maximum the coming days. Things are at it's clearest now.)

and lofting:

"Almost full moon. The horse team is dead. No fault in this."

[In the position of a minister(line 4) rather than a noble (line 5), the brightest one can become is as bright as the full moon reflecting the light of the noble. To achieve this one has used up all of one's strength.

Be wary of excess (arrogance). One's yielding core can never become more than a full moon

so the idea behind this line is having trust and confidence in breaking away from someone/something. the strength,momentum and direction of a team of horses is gone because the inner truth of the horse makes it go a different direction?

I see lofting compares both 4 and 5. So when received together they are mirroring each other in someway?

hows this. 2 horses were happily running along together in the same direction, then one horse suddenly decides to veer right cos it had a feeling deep inside that there was a lovely big bale of hay the other side of that hill.(4) after legging it across the hill, feeling like it just had to do it for a time, (maybe to build inner confidence in itself?) down the trail he sees the other horse again and after the very important divergence in their mutual paths, learns how to maintain his own independent direction but at the same time both come together knowing their own seperate truth, but with restored trust and confidence in eachother. (5)

what dya make of them apples?

lofting also has 61>38 as celebrating its 'faith' by means of hex 45.

interesting, cos i just asked what my position should be towards him and got 45.4>8.

45 isnt very personal though is it? its about a big group celebrating something spiritual, right?, not just 2 people ? and 8 is a big group hex too innit?

Below, Berkers has a simple and elegant take on the line. ( After many years of consulting Wilhelm, Legge, and Richard Lynn translations and commentary, I now find LIse and Berkers to be more quiet and concise, less political,social,and scholarly. Celestial Dragon is another good one for refreshing pared down elegance. Cannot find it lately, tho.)

i want all the boooks!!

could you give me details on lynn, berker and celestial dragon? I havent heard of these translations before. Thanks a mill yet again foxx! :)

Bests,

Yx


Yx
 

foxx777

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and lofting:



so the idea behind this line is having trust and confidence in breaking away from someone/something. the strength,momentum and direction of a team of horses is gone because the inner truth of the horse makes it go a different direction?

I see lofting compares both 4 and 5. So when received together they are mirroring each other in someway?

hows this. 2 horses were happily running along together in the same direction, then one horse suddenly decides to veer right cos it had a feeling deep inside that there was a lovely big bale of hay the other side of that hill.(4) after legging it across the hill, feeling like it just had to do it for a time, (maybe to build inner confidence in itself?) down the trail he sees the other horse again and after the very important divergence in their mutual paths, learns how to maintain his own independent direction but at the same time both come together knowing their own seperate truth, but with restored trust and confidence in eachother. (5)

what dya make of them apples?

lofting also has 61>38 as celebrating its 'faith' by means of hex 45.

interesting, cos i just asked what my position should be towards him and got 45.4>8.

45 isnt very personal though is it? its about a big group celebrating something spiritual, right?, not just 2 people ? and 8 is a big group hex too innit?



i want all the boooks!!

could you give me details on lynn, berker and celestial dragon? I havent heard of these translations before. Thanks a mill yet again foxx! :)

Bests,

Yx


Yx
Yes, I believe separation can lead to a sort of synthesis: A higher union afterward. H45 is a group thing, yes, although there can be something highly personal within that. I know, wish I were made of $$$, I would have a vast I Ching library--:rofl:
Richard Lynn's I bought years ago: I am sure it can be ordered now on Amazon. His has really, really lengthy and complicated commentary, but some of it is just stunning as to how well it applies to one's situation!:eek: Lynn is like a combination of Legge and Wilhelm: Really scholarly, but even takes it to a transcendent philosophical level. Yep, here it is on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Classic-Changes-Translation-Interpreted/dp/0231082940

Celestial Dragon I ching used to be free online: I used to consult it daily, about 2 years ago. Really simple and unique images and understandings. At one point, it was the only one I felt comfortable with! Here it is on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Celestial-Dra...r_1_13?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338913138&sr=1-13

Ewald Berkers can be viewed or ordered here:http://www.eclecticenergies.com/iching/virtualcoins.php
 

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