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Motherhood is Injustice 35UC

marybluesky

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The forum's active members are familiar with my negative mentality about motherhood.
Today I came across a video about labor pain & the feeling intensified.

I told the I Ching: "Motherhood is Injustice" and got the answer: 35uc.
"In the course of a day, he mated them three times "

Seems like my suspicion is confirmed? The woman is used for "breeding"?

I also cast another reading, saying to the I Ching something like "Men can enjoy sex a large part of their lives while for women, the pregnancy, labor and nursing ruins it;" and got 50.3.4.5 to 59.
I can read it two ways:
1) the temporary setbacks caused by the Cauldron- the womb- will disperse, then the woman's sex life continues as before. There is blessing.
2) my perception of the Cauldron- womanhood, womb, the spiritual vessel- is negative at the moment; I don't see its mission as worthwhile, however the negativity disperses eventually.
 
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Freedda

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It seems to me that you're starting out with what you want the answer to be - that motherhood is not just - and then interpreting the response to fit what you want it to say (e.g. motherhood equals breeding). And perhaps too, that because you didn't get a response which was suitably negative enough, you cast (about) again?

I see 35 as being about how we can best make use of our time and resourses while here on Earth. It seems to be about increasing one's resources by sharing them (grants of horses) and by making onself available (grants an audience). Cyville Javary calls 35 'Slowly Advancing in Daylight." And from the commentaries, we get 'Progress, Advance, Development.'

I'd say it's casting motherhood in the very good light of sunlight rising about the earth, and it includes: warm, clarity, sharing, acceptance and action. And it's not just about breeding horses.

At my last job, my workgroup was mostly women, both women who had no children (at least not yet), and those that did. I did not see any substaintive difference in these women, nor that having children had diminished those whom had them in any way. They all were living full, productive lives.

In general, one could take your attitude as an attack on mothers. It's as if you're saying that once a women has given birth, that's it, she is finished, washed up, and has no more choices, or tasks, or paths in life. Is that what you're intending? It's certainly not what I think 35 is saying.

D
 
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marybluesky

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In general, one could take your attitude as an attack on mothers. It's as if you're saying that once a women has given birth, that's it, she is finished, washed up, and has no more choices, or tasks, or paths in life. Is that what you're intending? It's certainly not what I think 35 is saying.

D
It's not an attack- at least I don't intend it to be; it's just how I feel, and wanted to see what the I Ching tells me about that.
 
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Freedda

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It's not an attack- at least I don't intend it to be; it's just how I feel, and wanted to see what the I Ching tells me about that.
Okay, good to know.
And I shared my take on 35 above.

And I think it's always good to make a distinction between 'what something is' versus 'how we feel about it.' I guess I said what I did because you're reading seemed to be about 'what' motherhood is, and not about your feelings towards it, which I read as something like, 'see, motherhood is all about breeding and therefore - as I've always suspected - it's unjust'.

D
 
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Changstein

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Hi,
I don't understand what is meant by "UC", but I assume you cast hexagram 35 with no moving lines.

I do not believe you were merely hoping to have your opinion confirmed, but I think that recognizing the subject of inquiry so literally in your reading can be very confusing because this makes it hard to see the more symbolic meaning.

The reading suggests to me that motherhood presents an opportunity, and that it is whatever you make of it, but it's going to be a lot of work. What you get out of it is proportionate to what you put in.

In a way, I suppose this is similar to the comment written above, but I do not necessarily see this as an overwhelmingly positive answer. It is closer to saying the ball's in your court. "How we can make the best use of our time and resources here on Earth" is OTM.

The opportunity to give the gift of life may be seen as desirable or not. Life is the biggest opportunity of all, but it's more than just a ray of sunshine.
 
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Freedda

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... is OTM
Yes, UC is 'unchanging', meaning a hexgram with no changing/moving lines.

But speaking of confusing acronyms, what does 'OTM' mean? .... I mean OMG o_O! (... and since you said 'it' about my post, I have to assume it means 'Obviously Totally Max!' )
 

mandarin_23

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Maybe Yi gives you an evasive answer here. An unchanging hexagram includes hexagram 02 als a Yang pattern. There is some motherly spirit in this answer anyway! The lower trigram, earth, is also speaking about a mother's creativity. Then 30 as an upper trigram is daylight. Is giving birth included in this reading?

Hexagram 35 is not speaking about fairness or justice or not, but asks you to let your light shine, whatever you do, a mother or a virgin. There is no comment on "fairness" in 35, even though there are quite a few hexagrams about legal things and fairness in the Yi. However, this hexagram might include some sexual power. Fair or not, it is what it is.

Hexagram 50 - the vessel. It is about changing your life, building up of your talents, finishing your education, gain insight, change. Maybe it is pregnancy, as well. I have never seen this hexagram in this light, I always thaugt it had more to do with cultural and spiritual development, but - maybe it is also the womb.

If you read it like that, the "ruin" of sexual joy can be 50.4; but this 50.4 line can also tell something about your negativity and mistrust, and maybe fears of not being strong enough to handle mothership. However, 50.5 says that you can get it right. You can disperse this negativity. Change pattern is 31, attraction. Boiling attraction, and dispersion ... maybe loosing yourself ... nice!

Becoming a mother is a radical change in a woman's life, this is for sure; there is a lot of creativity in it to create new life. Some woman certainly love it, some don't. In dispersing, you might be able to see the bigger picture.
 
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Freedda

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I suppose this is similar to the comment written above, but I do not necessarily see this as an overwhelmingly positive answer.
If you are referring to my commen above, I never described it as an 'overwhelmingly postitive answer'. I said it's about ....
.... how we can best make use of our time and resourses while here on Earth.

And .... it's casting motherhood in the very good light .....

So perhaps a postitive response but not overwhelmingly so. I agree when you say ....
What you get out of it is proportionate to what you put in.
I almost see this as a given with the responses from the Yi - that even the most 'positive' response requires effort on our part. It's not like rubbing a magic lamp to make something happen, and then thinking that the extent of what's required of us.

D.
 
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Liselle

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A few more ideas:
  • Unchanging means no relating hexagram. This was your reading, so maybe it's reflecting that you personally don't have a way to relate to it.
  • Yi could actually be agreeing with you. You: "Motherhood is Injustice." Yi: "Yes, agreed, when it's carried to its absolute limits." Humans have brains enough to avoid acting purely by instinct, and also contraception, so therefore more of a choice than other species. For instance the sadness which can befall unspayed mother cats, who can have several litters a year. But until someone comes up with a better way, someone has to give birth or species will die out. Advancing rather than dying out is 35-ish.
  • 35 isn't from the horses' point of view, it's from Prince Kang's. When given a gift, make the most of it, don't waste it. It's not about taking care of the horses, which from the horses' point of view could very well obviously be an injustice.

    This is interesting. Hexagram 30 is partly about taking good care of your cattle (/livestock in general, probably), and it happens to be 35's Shadow hexagram. The Shadow is an idea of Stephen Karcher's - it's found by counting backwards from the other end of the Sequence by the number of your hexagram, in other words subtracting from 65. So 65 - 35 = 30. It can represent how not to think about something, even when it might seem the obvious way to think about it. That seems to fit well here.
 
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Liselle

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Look what the Sequence of Hexagrams says about 35 and 36:

'Advancing necessarily has occasion for injury, and so Brightness Hidden follows. Brightness Hidden means injury.'
 
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diamanda

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I told the I Ching: "Motherhood is Injustice" and got the answer: 35uc.
"In the course of a day, he mated them three times "
Seems like my suspicion is confirmed? The woman is used for "breeding"?

Motherhood is a fundamental law of life, it's how human life works. We have sex and procreate (35). That's how our species exists. If you personally don't want to participate, then that's fine, but you can't call the whole process injustice.

I also cast another reading, saying to the I Ching something like "Men can enjoy sex a large part of their lives while for women, the pregnancy, labor and nursing ruins it;" and got 50.3.4.5 to 59.
50 describes a pregnancy. Here there are changing lines: the rich food in the pot is not eaten/used, then it's accidentally thrown out, and then the pot moves away - and the pregnancy (50) disperses (59). I believe this is telling you that you do have the choice and option to have sex without getting pregnant, if you so wish.
 

my_key

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Hi Marybluesky
I would tend to agree with Freeda that your cast and interpretation look to have reinforced your existing perspective on things. In other translations of Hex 35 that I have read there is no mention of the horses being mated. Karcher talks of "Gift's of horses being multiplied" Wilhelm and Huang translate as "given audience" and "interviewed" three times. Also 35 is named in various translations Progress, Flourishing, Advancing etc - taking an overall positive tone and means 'living in the daylight'
I told the I Ching: "Motherhood is Injustice" and got the answer: 35uc.
So I think the cast is speaking positively of you and the value you place in the beliefs you hold. Right now you hold strong beliefs, that are not everyones cup of tea and as Wilhelm says may have become "clouded by earthly things". It's interesting that you told Yi rather than asked something like "Is Motherhood an Injustice?" Hex 35 encourages stepping into the sunlight in some way.

I also cast another reading, saying to the I Ching something like "Men can enjoy sex a large part of their lives while for women, the pregnancy, labor and nursing ruins it;" and got 50.3.4.5 to 59.

Here again I'm going to look at the casting in a general way.
The context of your question sits you in a field of 'dispelling illusion' leading towards a 'breakthrough'(59).
Hex 50 ' contains and transforms' and encourages 'setting the situation straight to consolidate her destiny' (Hilary)

line 3 - Things seem awkward at the moment. How you evaluate things is under review, however you may not be able to see this yet.
line 4 - What you are cooking right now is in danger of spoiling the whole meal. Be aware of your thoughts.
line 5 - Purify and enrich your listening so that you become receptive to a more harmonious way of living (Hilary).

You, like all of us, are entitled to you views however consulting with Yi helps to bring balance to perspectives when we listen to the words offered.

This may of course not resonate with you at all as it is my interpretation of the dialogue you and Yi were undertaking.

Good Luck.
 

radiofreewill

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"Motherhood is Injustice"
35uc ~ Free your Mother

Now, marybluesky, in boisterous reply I ask you ~ What are the chances that "Motherhood is Injustice" is just a Story ~ repeated as mantra ~ that your 'fist-pumping' 💪 social activist self 'clings' to for its identity?

35uc says, imho, that people will always be able to confirm their biases by picking and choosing from amongst the Objects in the stream of their thoughts, and then dwelling on them according to their own self-interest?

So, for instance, if your experience is conditioned through the lens of 'my body' plus 'my pleasure' plus 'my shapeliness,' etc...

...then you might be inclined to 'see' Motherhood as Injustice?

And, it's not just you, the problem is generalized, too? For all practical purposes, *everyone* lives within the narrative of their own personal stories, all conjured-up through biased Object-consciousness?

This is the inferior form of 'seeing' as 35uc ~ it can be dreary everywhere you look for a long time?

However, the superior form of 'seeing' is Insight into "things as they are" without bias, which can be 35uc, also?

This is accomplished by using the fiery sword of discernment to cut through your attachments to the Objects in the stream of your thoughts...

...thereby *freeing* them to be just as they are in the Light of Day...

...unvarnished of any biased stories?

If you can sow the world with actions based on this way of 'seeing' ~ then you can reap the abundant reward of the Way ~ Oneness.

The choice is yours, of course ~ you can carry-on as the Daughter of Ché...

...or you can take-up the witness position and start letting-go of the Story starring a biased identity called me?

It just seems that there's an easier way to get to true *happiness* than fighting all the injustice that you can see?

Viva La Revolution!
 

rosada

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”Pregnancy, labor and nursing ruins sex“? If that has been your experience then I can certainly understand your feeling cheated. On the other hand many women enjoy sex after becoming mothers and continue to enjoy it all their lives whereas many men lose the ability to perform long before they pass, so now who got short changed? I bet there are a lot of guys out there who are likewise crying,”No fair!”
 
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rosada

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I've been continuing to think about this reading because 35 really does seem to be touting the benefits of being the male and then it occurred to me that maybe because no question was asked, this answer should be interpreted as the I Ching simply mirroring the statement and giving the reasons why one might say motherhood is unjust. I wonder what the response would be to "Fatherhood is Injustice"?
 
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Freedda

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because 35 really does seem to be touting the benefits of being the male and then ... this answer should be interpreted as the I Ching simply mirroring the statement and giving the reasons why one might say motherhood is unjust.
I think one of the benefits of this website is that we get to be Xun- or Wind-like and look at readings and the Yi from many different perspectives. So, regarding what 35 is saying:

Looking at the oracle and line statements of 35, a majority are not 'male' in their outlook and are in fact gender-neutural - with the exception of the 'prosperous lord using grants of horses' and perhaps 'advancing those (buck's) antlers' in line 35.6.

But even when considering this 'prosperous lord', I think we need to take into account the time and culture in which the Yi was written. Consider for example, the long line of emperors and rulers: Fu Xi, Cheng Tang (first Shang ruler), Jei Gui (last Shang ruler), King Wen, King Wu ... all the way up to Chiang Kai-shek, Mao Zedong and Xi Jinping ....

All of them are male, and I assume too that the world of the Yi was also male-dominated: that those who did the divining and those who did the querying were all male (or a great majority were); so it makes sense that the language of the Yi would reflect that, so we have the 'prosperous lord uses grants of horses.' But does that mean this is a 'male' answer? or that it reflects negatively on either the male rulers, or the woman whom produced their male heirs? I don't believe so.

Instead, I believe that much of what the Yi offers us is by way of example and metaphor - as is the wisdom and advice from fairy and folk tales. So, are we talking only about a Man King using his wealth to increase the number of his off-spring? Or, could this apply to woman, or transgender folk, or - heaven forbid! - even to mothers? And could it be about how sharing resources - of all kinds- is sometimes a way to increase them, and it applies (at least in our times) to all kinds of people, even to women and mothers?

I'd vote for the metaphor versus the exact words, otherwise, I suspect the Yi would be less useful or meaningful to a whole lot of people: women, and those of us whom are not in positions of power ....

Or consider, what if we were to apply this male/femaleness to fairy tales: is the obvious conclusion then that women are either witches intent on evil, or they are helpless princesses waiting to be rescued by powerful men (and rescued from dragons no less!). I suspect, unfortunaltey, that this might be some of the meanings that have been gleaned from these stories over the ages. But hopefully, we can apply bigger, broader, more inclusive thinking to these stories and to the Yi.

Or looking at it another way ... what if the oracle said (because the rulers of ancient China were all women) ....

'The prosperous Powerful Queen uses grants of horses to breed a multitude. And by the light of a day She three times grants audience.'​
And the image statement read:​
'The light rises over the earth. Expansion. The noble Young Princess, therefore, naturally radiates clarity of character.'​

Would we then think that somehow this is saying negative things about women or about motherhood? Or that they only apply to women? I guess I just don't see it.

Best, David
 
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marybluesky

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Thanks everyone for replying.

As said before, I don't intend to insult others, nor to disprove or question other people's choices- mothers in particular. I was just talking with the I Ching about something that annoys me; be it a feeling, a perception, a personal issue, etc.

In other translations of Hex 35 that I have read there is no mention of the horses being mated.
Useful information. After reading your post I visited De Korne website and yes, the judgement specially indicates being granted numerous gifts. So the notion of mating isn't literal; it rather refers to multiplying.

I then took a look at De Korne's note: "When the autonomous manifestations of our inner drives are channeled, their energy becomes the ego's own." He then gives the example of untrained dogs who kill the sheep, but after being trained, protect them with great joy. Now, based on the note above, is "motherhood injustice"? It may seem so to a wild, unrestraimed soul- still one can grow to love it.

”Pregnancy, labor and nursing ruins sex“? If that has been your experience then I can certainly understand your feeling cheated. On the other hand many women enjoy sex after becoming mothers and continue to enjoy it all their lives ...
Of course I didn't mean they won't enjoy sex for the rest of their lives, but during the phases I named- and it's a lengthy time in my eyes. Maybe I haven't been lucky indeed, as I came across several women my age with difficult pregnancies, hard labor, eye-wandering husbands who didn't appreciate becoming fathers but resented it and left the woman to be cared after by her family, and painful bodies months after giving birth. If a woman has three children in these conditions she would be suffering a large part of her youth. Her man? not at all.

P.S: I know many women disdain sex somehow. They may not say it directly, but consider sex to be part of a committed relationship that would preferably lead to starting a family; it's not good for the woman- or a worthy thing in general- otherwise. Not to wonder they see a sexually loose person- girl in particular- as a loser but a suffering mother as a winner. For me it's the opposite.
 
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Freedda

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Not to wonder they see a sexually loose person- girl in particular- as a loser but a suffering mother as a winner. For me it's the opposite.
For me, the more encompassing view is there are no winners our losers here, but only people making choices about how they want to live their lives.

To be single, or a single parent, to be married, to be a mother or father, or to be gay, or straight, or other ... or to be an artist or firefighter .... They all are possible choices and the all involve joy and loss, and gain and sacrifice.
 
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