navigating the heart mind . . .

[clarionbodhi]

greetings clarity community,

for the past six months i have been moving through one of the most challenging transitions of my life. a series of events occurred simultaneously that levied a tremendous stress on my life leaving me to change (grow up) or to retreat and repeat past behavior that has caused myself and others pain and suffering in the past. i have chosen to grow up

one of those stresses was a split in a relationship. i cannot say that the relationship has ended for no formal parting of ways has been made nor have we broken off communicating (although very little if any real communication occurs at this time).

early into this transition i had a professional divination performed for me. this, as well as all subsequent readings (done by myself) have indicated to stay the course and be open to a reunion. it was indicated that we would be back together sometime this winter. and the readings have consistently advised me not to initiate anything - this has been exceedingly difficult but beneficial, for it is teaching me to be ok with myself and being alone with out jumping into another relationship to escape the loneliness.

so now at 6 months i ask for the community's experience and wisdom in navigating my current situation with the aspiration of loving kindness and compassion for both m and i.

these are my most current inquiries (i personally use karcher's total iching and cleary's buddhist iching as references):

what would a future relationship be like between m and i?

1.4.5 - 26

How long will it be before m and i are reunited as a couple again?

48

what can i do to facilitate the reunion?

58.2.3.5 - 55


please accept my deep gratitude for all of those who have helped and advised me in the past. i am humbled by your selfless gifts of experience and wisdom and with deepest appreciation say thank you. you all do a tremendous service.

~m

p.s.

i have looked into the threads that describe how to determine the time that a reading will come to fruition but for the life of me cannot seem to crack its code. any insight or guidance you have on this topic will of course be most deeply appreciated.

p.p.s

additionally this transition experience will serve as a touchstone in my relationship to the yi. i have worked with the yi for nearly 20 years and this will be the first time (to the best of my ability) that i followed the yi with out deviating from it. i will post the ultimate out-come of all this, especially as it relates to the yi's direction, for all those interested.

 

[willowfox]

what would a future relationship be like between m and i?

1.4.5 - 26

*****Is this the same long distance relationship that you were asking about last year?
Anyway it would suggest a very caring, steady type of relationship.

How long will it be before m and i are reunited as a couple again?

48

****Well Hex 48 suggests that one of you must go to see the other in order to reunite, and a possible time could be May/June next year.

what can i do to facilitate the reunion?

58.2.3.5 - 55

****Cheerful, and friendly chats.

 

[clarionbodhi]

thank you for the response willow fox.

this is not the same relationship. we are still friends, however the distance and some impatience on my part shifted things a bit so now we are just friends.

its been difficult not to pursue that or any other opportunity though. and a may/june "possibility" seems rather daunting. i really want to communicate my intentions. for instance, when i inquired of the oracle last night as to whether or not go see her and communicate my intentions i so often get this response:

what about going to see her on my time off from work this week to communicate my feelings?

14.3.4.6 - 19

i take this as a 'no this is not the right time'? i often get this as a reply when i have the impulse to communicate with her.

 

[yaniq]

@ Willow Fox
"****Well Hex 48 suggests that one of you must go to see the other in order to reunite, and a possible time could be May/June next year."

Hi there.
The first part I get, but how do you come to the second part, may/june next year?

 

[ginnie]

what about going to see her on my time off from work this week to communicate my feelings?

14.3.4.6 - 19

Your reading says to do something for her in a completely kind and unselfish way. It does not exactly talk about communicating your feelings. A hex 14 relationship is not an emotional affair, you know. It is characterized more by compassion and a quiet sense of wisdom that is fully shared with your partner.

Be careful not to compare yourself to her or to anybody else in terms of what you have or don't have. You have a very discriminating mind. You must keep your ego in check at all times.

I believe the top line moving says whatever you want to do now is okay with heaven, the universe, and the I Ching. That is really an auspicious line -- and now would be a good time to go visit her.

I really think so.

 

[willowfox]

@ Willow Fox
"****Well Hex 48 suggests that one of you must go to see the other in order to reunite, and a possible time could be May/June next year."

Hi there.
The first part I get, but how do you come to the second part, may/june next year?

The May/June comes from another place but cardio needs to remember that those months are not definite as he could hurry along the timing by a more direct and hands on approach.

 

[willowfox]

what about going to see her on my time off from work this week to communicate my feelings?

14.3.4.6 - 19

Go for it, as this week suggests an auspicious time for a friendly visit.

 

[clarionbodhi]

thank you and fwiw

thank you both willow fox and ginnie.

and my apologies for being a bit absent - it has been a rather intense week.

as in the past i called her and left message with no reply. the morning i went to her place she wasn't there - did not answer her cell. before leaving to go to see her i asked the yi's opinion on going and it replied with inner truth 61.

deeply now i felt i needed to draw the line. she has made it a point to ignore me even with the generous space of 6 months. she has made it a point to exclude me from her life while being 'open-hearted' to many many others - very bizarre.

just to give you all a little history (curious this feels like some strange deja vu writing this now) before all this we were great friends, it seemed. she was in a relationship and had a break-up that eventually led to us coming together - when we were a couple there were signs that i chose to tacitly ignore thinking them, rationalizing them, as reasonable. one thing in particular was the treatment of her ex on facebook. granted he made a fatal mistake regarding photos of his ex but in my opinion to publicly humiliate him was not correct - nevertheless i ignored it by looking forward to building our new relationship. that was my mistake not to voice my opinion.

then after a few weeks into the relationship sudden revelations of huge debt and questionable business dealings began to surface. i was outraged and for a few days we separated then i decided to reach out, help instead of abandon, thinking that really all she needed was a break and some support.

well the seeds of distrust had been planted and it affected how i related to her and admittedly she was acting odd too. i suggested we need to reset things, work from the foundation of our friendship we had before we became intimate because if we did not i felt we were heading for some nasty territory. i felt we needed to reestablish some trust, some mutual responsibility towards each other. but on hearing this she vanished. i got one call about a month later when she locked her self out of her car and needed her keys and apart form a random nonsensical text message, that was it. i left one voicemail and sent one email indicating that i wanted to meet, that i missed her and that i believed we could work things out.

so i decided to remain open knowing how i have felt and behaved in past relationships when i needed some space to sort things out. well apart from the yi for 6 months there was no, not whatsoever an indication that she was interested in working something out.

tomorrow a week ago i drove to her condo and put at her doorstep her belongings. later that day i received a text message: "hey thanks for bringing that stuff over, i was at warehouse. sorry i didnt answer the call box thought it was a debt collector or somethin. thanks again"

this is very odd to me. we were friends for a year before we dated. we talked about living our lives out together. and then a text message of hey thanks ??

was the yi just giving me the runaround all those times when i asked should i be open to a relationship with her? not once did i get a reading that said leave, move on, get out while the gett'n was good. not once. very odd.

so i'm moving on. i would not reject an indication on her part to heal and work things through but i am not waiting around, that's for sure.

so if you have read this far willow fox and ginnie thank you again for your generous heart felt advice. i will keep you posted if there is any change.

peace,

~m

p.s.

i would be interested to see what kind of reading you come up with as far as what will happen regarding our future together or apart - as an experiment. i just know that i wouldn't be able to look at reading done by myself and believe it - know what i mean?

 

[ginnie]

before leaving to go to see her i asked the yi's opinion on going and it replied with inner truth 61.

Hex 61 often means, in one word, disappointment.

the treatment of her ex on facebook. granted he made a fatal mistake regarding photos of his ex but in my opinion to publicly humiliate him was not correct - nevertheless i ignored it by looking forward to building our new relationship. that was my mistake not to voice my opinion.

Everybody makes mistakes. Let it pass.

then after a few weeks into the relationship sudden revelations of huge debt and questionable business dealings began to surface...the seeds of distrust had been planted and it affected how i related to her...
..."sorry i didnt answer the call box thought it was a debt collector or something. thanks again"...

Carioeros, I'll give it to you straight. This gal is living in terrible fear and trembling due to her huge debts. The bill collectors come to her house demanding money. This is not the right time to be playing Romeo to her Juliet. This is not a good time for romance.

Try to put yourself into her shoes and think how you would feel if the situation was reversed. Anybody who is so frightened as she is frightened could not possibly be open to love at this time. Hopefully she would be open to reassurance, comfort, and compassion. I really do think you ought to put the bf thing on hold until the lady feels more like herself.

Other people might see it differently, but that's my considered opinion.

Also, you have made a value judgment about her essential character. Who is the person responsible for her debts and so forth? Try to take an impartial view. This is important, because it seems you have already decided that her ethics or morals are really not acceptable to you. Are you sure you have enough evidence about that to be so sure? It's better to say "I don't know" than to hold a judgment against anyone.

 

[clarionbodhi]

thank you gennie for your thoughts.

Hex 61 often means, in one word, disappointment.

how do you see disappointment?

flexibility within and firmness without - inner truth - some interpretations see it as the union of heaven humans and earth. hilliary speaks about 61 this way:

I think that Inner Truth means being completely at one with your place and time, and hence also connected to its deeper source. It gives you the sense of being in the right place at the right time: you trust the universe and yourself, and so you become wholly sincere and yourself worthy of trust. Of course, this is the ideal moment for crossing the great river and committing yourself to a new venture - and because your inspiration is coming from the right place, there will be a rich harvest from constancy.

if anything i felt and continue to feel at peace with what i did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardioeros View Post

the treatment of her ex on facebook. granted he made a fatal mistake regarding photos of his ex but in my opinion to publicly humiliate him was not correct - nevertheless i ignored it by looking forward to building our new relationship. that was my mistake not to voice my opinion.


Everybody makes mistakes. Let it pass.

yes this is true we are all good at making mistakes but to be naive about the way someone or something is treated would be a blunder. it never helps to humiliate anyone. never. settling the score, getting even doesn't work. this doesn't mean we don't define what is acceptable and not acceptable and often with consequences. but to hurt someone because they hurt us only perpetuates the suffering for all concerned.

Also, you have made a value judgment about her essential character. Who is the person responsible for her debts and so forth? Try to take an impartial view. This is important, because it seems you have already decided that her ethics or morals are really not acceptable to you. Are you sure you have enough evidence about that to be so sure? It's better to say "I don't know" than to hold a judgment against anyone.

her debt is her's. being in debt is overwhelming and i have been in her shoes and what i have learned as anyone that has had that experience is that we make sacrifices, we budget, we ask for help. we take responsibility for ourselves. nobody else can do this for us. what i noticed in her behavior regarding her finances was avoidance and denial that was until she was summoned to appear in court.

every human's essential character is good - from hitler to the hh dali lama. it is our choices, especially our habituated choices that determine the quality of our life and those that are close to us (even those that are further away too). i make no judgment on her essential value - she is deeply a good, warm, beautiful human being - and i love her. and i have faith in her that she can improve - as we all can. her behavior on the other hand has been deceptive, immature and hurtful. these are just facts, i cannot change them. what i can change however is my behavior towards her behavior. i want to be very clear in that i was no where near perfect in this relationship - among many things i could have been more compassionate and assertive with what was correct even at the cost of making her mad or even loosing her. i didn't do this and vacillated when i need to be firm and loving. i have not closed the door, so to speak, on a future relationship with her but to put my life on hold while she visits, parties and participates in events and gatherings while not at the very least returning my phone calls would be irresponsible and foolish on my part.

 

[ginnie]

how do you see disappointment?

It has been my experience with this hexagram on a number of occasions that I thought there was rapport -- and that something would work out for me or become meaningful -- , but for some reason the connection did not happen.

For that reason, I think that in a h61 unchanging situation, the truth (or the insight that comes to us) may be disappointing. The truth can sometimes not feel so lovely. An insight may be disillusioning.

Sorry I took a preachy tone in my posting above. It's hard since I don't know the people to keep an unbiased view. In any case, I shouldn't be lecturing anybody on any subject. Sorry again.

 

[clarionbodhi]

no need to apologize ginnie - its almost impossible to know the tone and complete intent of the reply. please feel free to voice your opinion as the spirit moves you

i see your point with your experience with hex 61.

and i also have taken to heart your advice too. although i'm not waiting for her i am open. to her and the universe. i deeply want to make this work out. but i can only do my part. if you pray, please join me in the aspiration of healing for both of us with the wish for us to be together again if this is the best for all concerned. and like wise please let me know if there is any intention you wish me to pray for as well.

thank you again gennie,

~m

 

[ginnie]

Yes, I pray. I feel that praying for other people after each morning meditation session brings me back to 'real life.'

Please pray for all I Ching diviners, Carioeros. Is it not true that we are always seeking to understand something? But we are not understood very well by other people. So it feels like a rather unreciprocated position to be in.

However, as I think you may be aware, it's best to 'not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood as to understand; to be loved as to love; for it is in giving that we receive ... [The Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi].

Be well!