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Needing help with 44.5 - 50

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Leclerq

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Hello :) I have been noticing a pattern with hexagram 44 every time I work with this particular man. We began an art project last year, and I asked IC what would come of it. I received 44 unchanging and the project turned out to be something wonderful and unique. Fast forward to us working together again, and I cast 44.2, this time with changing lines which resulted in 33, which is where I am now. The reason I retreated was because he developed a strong physical attraction towards me and wanted an affair. I didn’t want that, I only wanted to work with him for business because we create great things together. If we ended up dating I know I’d want something serious and I’m not sure he is capable of it. In my personal retreat, I’ve decided to contact him in the near future to see if he would be open to working with me again. I asked, will it be good for me to work with him again and is he open to seeing me? This time I received 44.5, which refers to a gift from heaven. I hear this is the best line of 44, receiving something good and unexpected. I think it means that if I contact him, he will be open and we will work on another art project together and create something special. Am I right about this? Is it a good idea to hit him up again or is there anything negative I should be aware of?
 

moss elk

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Am I right about this?
Oh dear, no.
You are as wrong as it is possible to be here.

This time I received 44.5, which refers to a gift from heaven. I hear this is the best line of 44, receiving something good and unexpected.
No, it isn't about getting a gift from heaven by engaging with him!
It is about hiding your melons from him.
It is about saying No to him (Which is also in the Judgement: Don't marry yourself to this idea) Later on, through not binding to him does a blessing come.
 
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Freedda

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Leclerq,

It seems to me that you've asked two questions here:

1.) will it be good for me to work with him again? and
2.) is he open to seeing me?

And I expect that most of us, including the Yi Jing, would have a hard time giving a single, clear response which answers two very different questions.

If it's telling you anything, it could be that strong passions can just as easily distract us from creativity as inspire it.

... and yes, I'd wager that this person does want to see you -- given his attraction to you. But that's not really the point, is it?
 
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Leclerq

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Well the melons to me represent the art project to be created. With 44 unchanging he and I created something special last year. That’s why I needed clarification. And just to clarify things on my end, by “seeing me” I meant open to seeing me for work, not dating.I thought perhaps line 5 meant a creative project falling into my lap (the melons from heaven that fell onto one’s lap).
 

pooja123

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although you kept getting the same hex 44 but results are based on the date and time it was drawn. according to Master huanng and I quote

(5) Fifth Nine. Encountering alternates to Establishing the New (50) This line is the host of the gua. It is a yang element at a yang place—central, correct, and in the supreme position. This line represents a person of high virtue who is righteous and powerful. The Yao Text says, “Willow twigs wrap the melon, concealing brilliance.” one at this place has the brilliant quality of tolerating others’ opinions and behaviors, but still restrains the evil influence from spreading. Melon represents the yin element at the bottom. It is sweet, but it rots easily and creeps along the ground, denoting the insidious influence of evil.

Confucius’s Commentary on the Yao Text says, “He does not abandon the ordinance of Heaven.” One should live in accordance with the ordinance of heaven, natural law. The rising of evil is as natural as the rotting of a melon, and its influence extends much more easily and faster than that of the right- eous, but by understanding natural law one endowed with brilliance can radiate it as easily as meteorites drop from Heaven. In other words, live with virtue.
end of quote
if it concerns creative endevours, he is the man. 5 yang lines and 1 yin line. the first line is where you self line sits according to the wen wang gua. You are a highly sexy attractive and creative woman. He sits at line 4. He is attracted to you but he will not make a move unless you consent. As with previous experience, the project is in the hands of the "vigorous" woman. Since you said no to him, he will not go to that romantic direction but he will certainly say yes in helping you with your project.
 

pooja123

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44.5 shows that both of you will cook up something wonderful and worthwhile and the guy you will be working with is able to produce a positive result. hex 50.5 according to Master huang's book the complete I-ching,
"The host of the gua is the yielding line at the fifth place, the one who takes charge of the ceremony. He honors and nourishes the person of great virtue and ability at the topmost place. "
 

moss elk

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Pooja, I sent you a private message last month. Please read it and comply.

You need to construct a signature so people know what you are doing.
(It isn't consulting the I Ching, by the way. No day and time of casting is necessary to understand the messages of Yi, and in fact the system you use corrupts Yi's messages into something else.)
 

moss elk

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Well the melons to me represent the art project to be created.

If you are certain that the melon is the art, then the line says to keep your art away from him.


I am only explaining the line.
It is your choice if you follow the advice or not.
 
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Leclerq

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Given my own past experience with 44 and its relation to creative endeavors, I think I should not let this opportunity go by. I know 44 comes up a lot in relation to opportunity for affairs (which did for me in 44 to 33), but I also know from experience that it can relate to creativity. I think so long as both people are sincere about the work it can be a constructive thing (my experience with 44 UC). I just asked the Yi what I can expect from working on this project together with him again and received hex 14.5 to 1. Looks favorable.
 

Lavalamp

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I do not think 44.5 says hide your melons from evil at all - or from horny men that want to bed you.
You asked if it would be good to work with him, to contact him about future working together.
You got the image of fruit ripening protected under sheltering leaves. Despite the sexual tension, I read this to mean you can create something great together, that protection - respect and care - exists. Melons rot when picked too soon. But when left to mature protected out of sight, they mature into something wonderful. A great creative endeavor - or a child even in the commentaries. This kind of describes the creative process I think a way, much of it happens below the surface, unseen, and than emerges whole.
My .02.

- LL
 

Lavalamp

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Pooja, I sent you a private message last month. Please read it and comply.

You need to construct a signature so people know what you are doing.
(It isn't consulting the I Ching, by the way. No day and time of casting is necessary to understand the messages of Yi, and in fact the system you use corrupts Yi's messages into something else.)

MossElk, i'm not sure why you're picking on Pooja here and demanding he "comply." He is not the first person here that uses a different method with the Yi, and to say he is corrupting it because times and dates are involved seems a bit over-the-top to me. That's been a common alternative method of reading in my observation. Are you an administrator now and there are new rules I missed while I was away? It just sounded a bit unnecessarily hostile.
-LL
 

pooja123

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Hi Lava Lamp. Moss sent me a message a month ago. i didnt realize it. Basically comply meant that I have to put a description on my signature box. which I wasnt aware of because i failed to read the rules. We are allowed to decipher but but we must put a description that we are using a different newer method so that some would understand the difference. I am a "she" . thx Lavalamp
 

Lavalamp

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Yes Pooja, other readers here have used similar methods, the Hu Tien Method also calculates month day time into readings and Blofeld had a hexagram calendar for answers regarding time questions.
It's obvious you are using a different method and it enriches the educational environment I think.
Thanks for contributing.
-LL
 

pooja123

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your welcome. i-ching by far the most amazing divination tool. I still refer to the text corresponding to each lines. So that i have a better understanding of the timing method. See if it complies with one's intentions and solutions.
 

moss elk

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MossElk, i'm not sure why you're picking on Pooja here and demanding he "comply."

hi lavalamp,
I think Pooja explained it well.
It is a forum rule here, and I've been a moderator for a few years, it is my duty to enforce it.

End Moderator statement.


................................................................
Forum member statement:
I have witnessed enough 'interpretations' here using peripheral added-on systems to know the following happens:
1- A question is asked.
2-Yi provides an understandable answer
3-person consults calendar or five elements which changes the answer to something else.
4-person doesn't listen to Yi's message.

One example here of this was when a user who casts almost exclusively about the stock market got an answer about a Bond that said 'diligent modesty gets results' (which is typical of the nature of Bond performance) Then they consulted a non-integral system and it told them not to buy the Bond. Yi says go ahead, and the system they use says don't go ahead.
So, do you see the problem?

(I stand by the corruption claim.)
 
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Freedda

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Leclerq, two points ...

First, I was not commenting on the nature of your question about Mr. Art, but on the fact that you are asking two questions at the same time, which will likely lead to a confusing answer.

Second, and more importantly, it seems you've made up your mind to see Mr. Art and work with him again, so your query seems more like you're looking for outside affirmation of what you've already have decided to do, regardless of what is actually being said. I'm not saying that's wrong, but it is quite different than asking for advice or for a prognostication.:

You want to see this person, so your interpretation of what the I Ching is saying is, surprise, surprise, that you should see this person. :confused:

By way of example:

I say: I want to have creamed corn for dinner and I think we're going to have six more months of winter (two statements).​

I ask the I Ching: should I have creamed corn for dinner, and, will we have six more months of winter? (two questions in one)​

The I Ching gives me any one of 4,096 possible responses, and regardless of what's being said, my take-away is: Gee, I think the melons covered by leaves means I should have creamed corn for dinner, and the strong woman means we will have six more months of winter.

I don't intend to be mean-spirited, but I want to point out the importance of starting with a clear query /question, and to understand what you're really wanting from the I Ching: advice on how to respond or act? Fortune-telling of a future outcome? Or, are you looking for the I Ching to tell you what we want to hear?

Regards, David.
 
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balata

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Hi
Everytime I received 44:5 things turned out great for me. Either meeting or even exceeding g my hopes and expectations in a very positive way. Last time was in fact yesterday.
 

Lavalamp

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Moss Elk,

Could you please cite the exact rule Pooja is breaking? You said it was a rule you are bound to enforce, but followed that with personal opinion slagging Pooja method as a reader, and *that* is I believe against forum rules. I have seen other well respected readers here that use *traditional* Chinese methods where date and time is important that no moderator ever demanded "Comply" with a rule they post their non-standard ( to a western person) method. A request would collegial, demanding and slagging - not so much.
I understand you have an opinion about methods other than the most commonly used by Western people, but I think Pooja is contributing to the forum, expanding awareness of the Yi, and in your role as moderator you should not be so personal.

- LL
 
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diamanda

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Hi LL, this rule has been on the forum for quite a few years now. It's a fair rule, it's good to know what non-standard method is being used.
 

moss elk

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Could you please cite the exact rule Pooja is breaking? You said it was a rule you are bound to enforce

Yes, shortly I will post a link to the signature rule, as soon as @hilary; responds to remind me which thread she put it in.

Regarding the other points:

I have seen other well respected readers here that use *traditional* Chinese methods.
1-some people are easily impressed by complexity and custom. (I am wary of both)

2-I consult the Zhou Yi which was written hundreds of years before the several interpretation systems were.
So, I offer that I am the real traditionalist here.
(using the original material, without a system that was made by a different people/tribe centuries later.)

To say I am doing something 'Western' is factually incorrect.


but followed that with personal opinion slagging Pooja method as a reader, and *that* is I believe against forum rules.
There is no rule against slagging a method, arguing merit, or calling out what seems to be an error. In fact, I would not choose to be part of any community that put such restrictions on their members. (sounds too much like a religion or political party) I didn't disparage her, only the method.
This is the key difference.

no moderator ever demanded "Comply" with a rule they post their non-standard ( to a western person) method.
It has happened,
you just haven't witnessed it,
because it usually happens in PM, like a whisper. (All but one user agreed to it, the one that didn't left the forum because we took issue with the voices in his head that told him to rewrite Yi.) But Pooja didn't look at her messages for weeks, so the next step was to post it in a thread.

A request would be collegial, demanding and slagging - not so much.

It wasn't a request, it was a directive.
Every one of us here is moving pixels around on private property, that Hilary is sharing with us.

I think Pooja is contributing to the forum, expanding awareness of the Yi, and in your role as moderator you should not be so personal. - LL
The first part wasn't personal, it was procedural.

The second part was from me, and I'll take your input to consider that I shouldn't Moderate on a thread I've contributed to. That point deserves consideration, like a judge who recuses themself.

Pooja is an adult who, when she finally read the PM, she promptly understood and complied and made a well written explanatory signature. (So people know what she is doing)
I have no issue at all with someone using a system, as long as they are clear about it. (so people can judge the merits themselves.)

Lastly though, if a reading says Stop and someone tells a querent that it means Go, I will comment on it. It is in my nature to do so.
 
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Freedda

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I have now counted I think eight posts that are about procedures and the guidelines, and not really about the content of the query.

I understand that this is Important to resolve, but is there any way for you all to 'get a room' so to speak -- maybe in its own thread somewhere or via private messaging, or? Otherwise it feels like the thread has been hijacked somehow.

Thanks, David.
 

pooja123

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thx Lavalamp for your concern. and Sorry Moss elk about all this lol. Didn't mean to cause trouble. my bad! I appreciate lava's concerns. haha. but rules are rules. and we are just too lazy to read them. ouch!
 

pooja123

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Thx Lava for standing up for me. Moss was concerned that I didnt explain my method in my signature box. it is all solved hun. no worries.
 

moss elk

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lavalamp,

I appreciate and respect that you were sticking up for Pooja.
 
L

Leclerq

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Leclerq, two points ... First, I was not commenting on the nature of your question about Mr. Art, but on the fact that you are asking two questions at the same time, which will likely lead to a confusing answer. Second, and more importantly, it seems you've made up your mind to see Mr. Art and work with him again, so your query seems more like you're looking for outside affirmation of what you've already have decided to do, regardless of what is actually being said. I'm not saying that's wrong, but it is quite different than asking for advice or for a prognostication.: You want to see this person, so your interpretation of what the I Ching is saying is, surprise, surprise, that you should see this person. :confused:By way of example:
I say: I want to have creamed corn for dinner and I think we're going to have six more months of winter (two statements).​
I ask the I Ching: should I have creamed corn for dinner, and, will we have six more months of winter? (two questions in one)​
The I Ching gives me any one of 4,096 possible responses, and regardless of what's being said, my take-away is: Gee, I think the melons covered by leaves means I should have creamed corn for dinner, and the strong woman means we will have six more months of winter.
I don't intend to be mean-spirited, but I want to point out the importance of starting with a clear query /question, and to understand what you're really wanting from the I Ching: advice on how to respond or act? Fortune-telling of a future outcome? Or, are you looking for the I Ching to tell you what we want to hear? Regards, David.
I think there are many different ways to interpret the Yi, that’s just my take. It’s not wrong to ask 2 questions at once and get an answer, because the Yi does ultimately give you an answer. I also believe it’s really up to the person to decide what it means. You can get 2 people disagreeing on the interpretation of the lines and outcome, and we really don’t know what the experience is until it comes to pass, right? FYI, I’d like to say that I decided to contact him today and had a good conversation with him. Even though he knows I am not interested in dating him, he was receptive to the idea of working with me again and wanted to meet up to collaborate on our next art project.
 

moss elk

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I also believe it’s really up to the person to decide what it means.

You describe a Rorschach test or a piece of artwork.
Yi is neither.
Each Chapter and Line has specific meanings that can be comprehended.
 
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Freedda

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I think there are many different ways to interpret the Yi .... It’s not wrong to ask 2 questions at once and get an answer, because the Yi does ultimately give you an answer.
Leclerq: I was basing what I said about 2-questions-in-1 from the courses I've taken through this site and the shared wisdom here, which I interpret as: the clearer the question the clearer the answer.

You are right, the Yi provides an answer -- being an inanimate object that we are reading from, it sort of can't help it, just like i get an answer when I turn over the 'magic 8 ball.' The questions, are however: are the answers clear, and most importantly, are they being interpreted wisely? I think the answer is ... maybe ... or at most, sometimes.

The language of the I Ching is at times fluid, and there is a range of translations, good, to, bad, to just plain bizarre; just as there is also the same range of interpretations - good, bad .... And as I said, people come with different intentions -- to get advice, to find meaning or inspiration, to peer into the future, to have the I Ching be their 'yes man,' beard, or fall guy.

That said, I wish you the best in your art endeavors.
 

Lavalamp

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MossElk,
People don't have to contribute here. When they do choose to share their knowledge and experience with others, I believe it is the role of a moderator first to show appreciation, not criticism.
Yeah you may be sure your way is the authentic way and the other person's isn't. But nothing has turned me off more here, then readers that cannot contain personal feelings of superiority and territorialism. Especially territorialism. I hate that. I have no problem with simple disagreement, but as Pete Seeger said, it's very important to learn how to talk to people you disagree with.
- LL
 

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