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Negative Yao Text vs. Auspicious Related Gua

circuits_open

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Hi all,

Quickie here. I (and I assume we all do and do so regularly) run into confusing divinations where the Yao Text lines conflict with the resulting Gua. I'm too tired now to go through my I-Ching journal to get specific examples, but we all know what I'm talking about.

Let's say the relating hexagram is 55 (Abundance) or 42 (Increase) which are both GREAT but (using Karcher's terminology) a Yao line leading to them is negative, such as "the way is closed."

I tend to get confused then. I want abundance or increase of course but the Yao line is saying I shouldn't pursue it.

What's the word on this somewhat typical conflict?

Thanks!
 
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ewald

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With a small number (1, sometimes 2) of changing lines, I ignore the resulting hexagram. With a large number of changing lines (5 or 6, sometimes 4), I ignore the changing lines, and only look at the originating and resulting hexagrams. Except for exceptions, of course ;-)

Ewald
 

clarissa

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Sorry. I just looked this up. A "Yao line" refers to one of the moving lines.

Can you give me an example of what you're talking about...because I had someone tell me something like this about some readings that appeared really great on the surface.
 
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bruce

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Provoking thought is what Yi does best for me. If there?s 6 changing lines, they?re all available to contemplate. The moral of a story within a book is typically found within the many layers of the story. To miss any of them is to miss an important chapter. If the story includes a "bad guy" as well as a "good guy", chances are the story develops as a result of tension between the two.
 

bradford_h

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Technically a Yao line is a redundancy, since a Yao is a line. It's also a repitition and a reiteration. And it repeats and restates itself.
 

jte

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Circuits, not sure if this pertains precisely to your question, but it may have some bearing, so reposting it for ya...

I think there's 3 main ways you can look at contradictory lines, generally.

- They represent different situations, different people, or separate sub-aspects of a situation and/or the answer from the Yi.

Try to distinguish both "threads" in the situation and react to each appropriately and somewhat independently.

- Aspects of each line are "blended" in the situation; you can think of this sort of like a musical chord (and thanks to Bruce for that particular metaphor :) )

To cope effectively, your reaction to the situation might also be a "blend" of factors. Kind of like good parenting: sometimes a little "tough love" is what's called for. But that doesn't mean there isn't love.

- The moving lines build a relating hex; the relationship between the main hex and relating hex is the main message, so don't worry overmuch about the particulars of the moving lines.

Base your reaction on considering the overall relationship between the hexes and the message that relationship carries, rather than any particular lines.

FYI, I use all three styles of interpretation at different time, depending on the question/situation and what I think the "message" of the reading is.

Of course, people also apply other logical organizations such as chronological order, parts of the body (line 1 is feet, line 2 is legs, etc), and social strata (line 4 is minister, 5 is ruler, 6 is sage, etc).

Overall I think it is fair to say "it just depends." Or, more precisely, the logic of the answer provided by (often seemingly contradictory) changing lines depends on the question, the circumstances, what the Yi is trying to say to you, and your preferred interpretation style(s).

- Jeff

- search retrieval text -
 

bradford_h

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I don't know of any word distinguishing a line that's changing from one that isn't. Lines in the diagram are referred to by specific place (wei) number (chu, er, san, si, wu, shang). The term yao ci or line text implies that it's changing.
 

dobro p

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I view the yao as individual lines of force within the overall situation, which is imaged by the primary and relating hexagrams. Nothing too complex in the idea of different important things going on in the same situation, I think - the moon goes round the earth at the same time the earth goes round the sun at the same time the sun moves along its path in the galaxy (at the same time I walk in yet another direction over the face of the earth).

But it's interesting to decide how important the individual active line is in relation to the overall situation imaged in the primary/relating hexagrams. As a general rule of thumb, I think the fewer active lines there are, the more important is the message it carries. Which is exactly like life, more or less. If there's only one person in a situation, that person's energy and decisions carry a lot of weight. If there are two people in a situation, decisions have to be shared. If there are four people in a situation, then each person's 'weight' in the situation is lessened. And when there are five or six people in a situation, the group energy factor is much more significant than any one individual energy or decision. Which means that, for me, when there are lots of active lines in a hexagram, I tend to look first at the macro level, and focus on the primary and relating hexagram for the most important message. And yet, even though I follow this rule of thumb for interpreting active lines, it's good to take the time to look at *every* aspect of what the Yi gives you - macro, micro and whatever comes to mind as you contemplate it.
 
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bruce

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What did one metaphor say to the other metaphor? What's a meta (between) for?

Likes Jeff's and Dobro's explanations, a lot.

It might be helpful to remind that understanding a reading isn't always possible until the reading is playing out in actuality. This is especially true with conflicting messages. Then I can say 'oh yeaah' to one line, and shortly after say 'oh yeaah' to a completely opposite line. 'No real contradiction at all!'
 

circuits_open

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Thanks everyone for elucidating this issue a bit. By Yao Text, I meant changing lines -- I should have been clear on that. I think I picked up that term from Huang's "Complete I-Ching."

Just as an FYI -- which texts do you guys consult and in what order usually?

Usually, I build my result from "The Complete I-Ching" and use Huang's names for the Guas in my journal yet I generally go to Karcher's book first. If I read Karcher's interpreation and it's clear (which it usually is) I leave it at that, otherwise I will then dip into Huang's "Complete I-Ching," then "The I-Ching Workbook" by R.L. Wing then Sarah Dening's "The Everyday I-Ching."

So, usually I only refer to Karcher's interpretation, but if I need more help, I use all four of those books.
 
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bruce

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Brad - for me ittsa meta for you to find out.

I prefer the Hu Wen Hou I Ching.
 
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bruce

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Sorry, Circuits.. just clownin.
clown.gif
Fortunately levity is permitted here (when Hilary?s not looking).

I use Wilhelm, Lise's and Brad's, plus a lot of accumulated stuff from personal experience.
 

jte

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Hrmm. The clever juices aren't flowing for me right now... oh well. I use W/B and Legge and sometimes check Bradford's or LiSe's, especially on "tricky" lines where translations differ a lot. I intend to to get to a Karcher trans. "one day".

- Jeff
 

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