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New to I Ching, May I have some assistance, please?

cssslw

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Hi, everyone:
I'm rather new to the I Ching community. This is my first ever post. I asked the I Ching, via this site, "What must I know or do now and in the near future to reunite with my (politely) estranged ex girfriend Stacey?" We have not communicated much in the last six months, I would like for us to be together again. I love her very much.
The I Ching responded with: #24, changing lines 1,2. and the secondary hexagram was #7. I'm not sure what to do with this. Shall I continue to be patient and wait for her to initiate our relationship, or am I being advised to do something? And if so, what, exactly? Thank you in advance for everyone's consideration and help.
CSSSLW
 

dobro p

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cssslw said:
"What must I know or do now and in the near future to reunite with my (politely) estranged ex girfriend Stacey?" We have not communicated much in the last six months, I would like for us to be together again. I love her very much.
The I Ching responded with: #24, changing lines 1,2. and the secondary hexagram was #7.

Hex 24 is about returning to where you belong or returning to the beginning of the cycle again - a very appropriate image for your getting together again with your ex-girlfriend. 24.1 and 24.2 are really positive in that context, and talk about returning to something quickly, with good results - so the Yi seems to be saying that returning to her is a very positive thing to do. The relating hex is 7, which talks about organized force. That suggests that you shouldn't be half-hearted in your return to her, but instead do it with all the skill and power at your command.

Good luck.
 

cssslw

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Dear Dobro:
Thank you for your kind response. # 24 seemes positive, but I couldn't figure out how # 7 fit in regard to my situation. It seems the I Ching is advising me to act quickly and with a positive attitude. Now, to figure out just how to do it in the best manner...
 

dobro p

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cssslw said:
Dear Dobro:
Thank you for your kind response. # 24 seemes positive, but I couldn't figure out how # 7 fit in regard to my situation. It seems the I Ching is advising me to act quickly and with a positive attitude. Now, to figure out just how to do it in the best manner...

Speed doesn't matter in this case. If you read the text for hex 24 it talks about 'seventh day comes return', which means that returning takes some time, it stretches out over a period of time. No, it's not speed that hex 7 talks about, but organized, intelligent force. I don't know how one goes about getting together with an ex-girlfriend with intelligent force, but that's what the Yi's talking about here. If you combine the 'period of time' idea of 24 with the 'organized force' idea of 7, you get something like 'a sustained, powerful effort over time'. Make it obvious what your intentions are, in other words, and don't leave it at just one contact. There's no need to pressure her, cuz time's on your side here, but you need to play a strong hand. Be *manly*, I guess (grin).
 

willowfox

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' "What must I know or do now and in the near future to reunite with my (politely) estranged ex girfriend Stacey?" hex 24.1,2 > 7"

Hex 24.1 put aside all thoughts of anger, remorse, etc, and let bygones be bygones, don't dwell on the errors of the past.

Hex 24.2 if you want her back then be humble and modest in your approach, deeds, and attitude. She will probably require that you say sorry.

Hex 7 you need to be strong both in your motives and in your heart, this is not a game, so set your sights on her and go for it but be sincere. It is not about force at all but about careful planning and perseverance. This is not a war or fight, it is more like a carefully prepared dance. Do it right and good fortune will be yours, so be generous, be popular, and be there.

It will take a bit of time to repair the gap perhaps as far away as May?
 
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cssslw

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Help with love.

Hi, folks:
Thank you again for your gracious assistance. I'm glad to learn that I don't have to rush in response to Stacey. I framed my original question as what I should know or do "In the near future." to reunite with Stacey. Perhaps, the I Ching's answer means that I may I have longer than I expected to act.
Last night I asked the I ching how Stacey would respond if I contacted her this week, and my reply was Hexagram #2, no changing lines, no other hexagram. Because I don't exactly how best to next reach out to Stacey, I hope the original reply of 24: 1,2 and #7, and this follow up reply of #2 means I can take some time, and be led, or allow it to happen organically. However, if I have to declare my intentions to her now, I can do that. At any rate, I do thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your help.
cssslw
 

dobro p

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cssslw said:
Last night I asked the I ching how Stacey would respond if I contacted her this week, and my reply was Hexagram #2, no changing lines, no other hexagram.

Hex 42 talks about putting more into this situation.

Okay, I'd say things look like this: Hex 24 talked about getting back together, and said it's a process that's going to take some time. Hex 7 said to act powerfully. Hex 42 says to put more into it. I'd say it's time to ACT. Stop consulting oracles and start making phone calls or start hang-gliding past her window or whatever it is your style sees as forceful. But do something. Start now.
 
J

jesed

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Hi

Just in case the comment could be useful

Among other meanings, hex 2 points that the things are presented as if they are in an open space in front of your eyes... I mean, you can openly see the issue.
So, you already have clues from reality in front of you to answer your question.

Now, if you like or dislake what you see, well, that is another issue ;)

One advice of hex 2 is: believe what you are seeing related to this issue; the risk is not to follow reality's clues and be attached to your own ideas/expectatives/fears

Best wishes
 

willowfox

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"Last night I asked the I ching how Stacey would respond if I contacted her this week, and my reply was Hexagram #2"

Very good, she will at least listen to what you have to say, she will be receptive.
 

mudpie

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hexagram two answers your question by saying she will be receptive to our approach.

I dont see any waiting here....24 lines say to go back from a short distance, dont go further away, go back, return, 7 says to march right over to her, gather your courage and do it. 2 is a beautful answer. she will receive you . WHAT holds you back, why do you hesitate?
 

dobro p

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dobro said:
Hex 42 talks about putting more into this situation.

Okay, I'd say things look like this: Hex 24 talked about getting back together, and said it's a process that's going to take some time. Hex 7 said to act powerfully. Hex 42 says to put more into it. I'd say it's time to ACT. Stop consulting oracles and start making phone calls or start hang-gliding past her window or whatever it is your style sees as forceful. But do something. Start now.

Sorry, misread it. Please refer to Willowfox on this.
 

cssslw

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Hi, All:
Well, I think the I Ching is incorrect or messing with me. I saw Stacey today by accident, and she made quite clear she doesn't want anything to do with me, at least for the time being. I'm confused and dissapointed. I asked the I Ching for clarification. My reply: 13: lines 3,4,5,6. Supporting hexagram #24. I then asked what would happen if I went ahead and contacted her this week, anyway. The response: #54: changing lines 2. Supporting Hexagram#51. I can't make heads or tails of what seems like such contradictory hexagrams over the last few days. Any ideas? Thank you.
cssslw.
 

cssslw

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Does the IChing simply get it wrong or mislead people on purpose?
cssslw
 

dobro p

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I don't think so. But I've had this experience: somebody I know consults the Yi in my presence - they toss the coins, and I interpret - and neither of us can make head or tail of the result. In other words, it seems to me that sometimes the Yi doesn't accept a person who consults. It doesn't get it wrong, it denies help. It doesn't mislead, it denies help.

However, in this case, I think I must have mis-read the results of your consultation. As a result of this, I'm going to have to re-think my understanding of 24, 24.1 and 24.2. Recently, I raised this issue in the other forum:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3639

As a result of what you've said about the situation you're in, I've decided to change my view of 24 and its lines. I'm grateful for your feedback; I apologise if I misled you.
 
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J

jesed

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Hi

I hope not to be rude, but I have to say:

No, Yijing was right from the begining... the signals to answer your question was just in front of your eyes (six months without close contact would be a signal of closeness or indiference?).

But, as I wrote, the risk was (and you fall in it) that you don't believe in reality and remain attached to your own expectatives.

Unfortunatelly, is easy to give false hopes when interpreting Yi's answers in romantics issues. You are not the first case around here. Sorry this happened.

I would suggest you to examinate what this lesson to yourself; you can consult the Yi: General Diagnosis of my emotional time.

That would be a good start-point to improve

Best wishes
 
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L

lightofreason

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dobro said:
I don't think so. But I've had this experience: somebody I know consults the Yi in my presence - they toss the coins, and I interpret - and neither of us can make head or tail of the result. In other words, it seems to me that sometimes the Yi doesn't accept a person who consults. It doesn't get it wrong, it denies help. It doesn't mislead, it denies help.

use of miraculous/random methods guarantees inconsistancy.
 

autumn

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Cssslw,
Your response of 24 was to the question,"what do I need to do to reunite with her"...which means that you went into your question assuming that was a possibility. Your question never was, "is it possible to reunite". 2 unchanging is about a passive state of being that is unchanging. The questions are very important.
 

willowfox

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"I asked the I Ching for clarification. My reply: 13: lines 3,4,5,6. Supporting hexagram #24."

Hex 13.3 you have jumped the gun here and now she mistrusts your intentions. She appears to be a difficult person to deal with but the longer you let the situation decline the worse it will get.

Hex 13.4 slowly move towards her but unfortunately for you there are still heavy obstacles in the way, but whatever you do don't get into a fight.

Hex 13.5 you are separated but 'you' are still connected lovewise but I have no idea about her depth of feelings but again there be obstacles to overcome. Persevere if you want to win fair lady, and hopefully you will reunite and then happiness ( have to wait and see here won't we).

Hex 13.6 true love still seems to be lacking but you should at least be back on friendly speaking terms.

Hex 24 a turning point in this relationship coming up in the future where the past is forgotten and a new beginning arises (May is still looking quite good?) Within 7 months anyway?

"I then asked what would happen if I went ahead and contacted her this week, anyway. The response: #54: changing lines 2. Supporting Hexagram#51."

Hex 54.2 it is quite simply your fault that she is so upset and pissed off with you, but she still thinks (fondly?) of you.

Hex 51 you will have some kind odd surprise this week in regard to to your question which will shake you up but the outcome is happiness(?) and laughter.

So call her. Nothing is going to happen if you just sit on your butt and do nothing, this is all about perseverance and being sincere.


In the first question you asked about calling her and you got a positive answer, there was nothing in that question about meeting face to face. You met her in the street and what did she do? That's right, she became frightened and defensive, face to face is so much more weakeing then a call over the phone. A case of rubber legs on her part, perhaps?
 
J

jesed

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cssslw said:
Last night I asked the I ching how Stacey would respond if I contacted her this week

Making now the diference between "calling by phone" or "face by face" is just a way to change the argument to avoid recognice a failure on the prediction (not first time this happened).

Even worse, you had been encouraged to contact her, then blamed for the negative result... but again, encouraged to contact her.

Now is up to you if you open yourself to the empirical facts of reality, or follow false hopes.

Best wishes
 

dobro p

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lightofreason said:
use of miraculous/random methods guarantees inconsistancy.

I know that's your opinion, but I think it's time you stopped telling me all the time, because I've been to your web pages where you describe your IDM and XOR ideas, and there is no possibility at all of my ever verifying what you say there because you don't speak a language I can understand. Since I can't understand it, I can neither verify it nor prove it wrong. Since there's no chance of my ever being able to know if it's right or wrong, there's no point in me wondering whether what you say is valid or otherwise, and no point in you continuing to go on at me about it.

You know, one reason I admire the Sufis as perhaps the most wonderful spiritual teachers this planet has hosted is because they have almost universally followed the principle of 'speak to the student in terms the student can understand'. They don't waste anybody's time, in other words. It's a very sound principle. You seem to be a pretty smart guy; what I've said is something a truly smart guy can consider to advantage - you'll be able to either cut your losses or enhance your gains, or both.
 

cssslw

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Clarification

Dear Jesed:
I'm new to this, but if as you say, the I Ching is, for whatever reason wrong, misleading, or contradictory,as it seems it has been with me, should I continue to invest time in learning to use and understand it? Isn't an oracle supposed to be relatively dependable and easy to grasp. Or at the very least, shouldn't it be a positive resource to one's quest for guidence with life's important choices, such as the person you want to marry? Or perhaps, the I Ching's original responses to me will eventually prove true? This all makes my head hurt.
cssslw
 

Trojina

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I don't think the I Ching is misleading, but it isn't that easy to understand if you have just begun, your understanding will deepen over time as you see how answers play out in your life. Meanwhile keeping an eye on what reality (out there) is telling you is a good safeguard.

FWIW I would not see 24 as meaning getting back together, more like return to your own state of being. Like when we're so attached to someone we lose ourselves a bit, our minds always on them. This isn't always such a good thing, especially when they don't feel the same ;)
 
J

jesed

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Hi

Yes to trojan comment; my point of view (and of course, it is only that, a point of view) is that the Yi's answer was correct. When the answer was hexagram 2, you was invited to believe in real facts and not follow inner expectatives.

Your expectative was and maybe still is, to be together again; hex 2 invites you to put your foot on the ground about this expectative.

Best wishes
 
L

lightofreason

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dobro said:
I know that's your opinion, but I think it's time you stopped telling me all the time, because I've been to your web pages where you describe your IDM and XOR ideas, and there is no possibility at all of my ever verifying what you say there because you don't speak a language I can understand. Since I can't understand it, I can neither verify it nor prove it wrong. Since there's no chance of my ever being able to know if it's right or wrong, there's no point in me wondering whether what you say is valid or otherwise, and no point in you continuing to go on at me about it.

You dont make sense here - we are dealing with the I Ching method of Q and A. I have said, and continue to say, that use of the 'traditional' methods will NOT guarantee consistancy in results - so you and your friend tossing coins will elicit 'issues' for sure!

This PARTICULAR perspective is covered in the Emotional I Ching material - so tell me where you find issue with THAT, dont worry about the IDM etc being too hard for you - we can keep it simple. WHAT in the Emotional I Ching do you have issues with? Tell me that and I can flesh it out (since it DOES work but it is prototype and so you may not 'get it' fully without it being fleshed out. IT is REALLY simple to use and will give you consistant results)

program page:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/icplusEProact.html

preamble:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/EmotionalIC.html

So --- get your friend and work through the EIC and compare what it gives you with your exercise using the 'traditional' methods.

Chris.
 

cssslw

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Oracle Reliability

Hi, Everyone:
I really appreciate the thoughtful advise and comments folks have been kind enough to provide me over my situation with my ex (and future) girlfriend, Stacey. I asked the I ching what to do in regard to the situation, and recieved many seemingly positive hexagram readings in response. Now, I Ching apologists seem to be saying that because the reality of what has transpired seems to be the opposite of what the I Ching advised me, that it is still me who is mistaken. However, I get the feeling that if things had gone smashingly well with Stacey, those same people would have said "See. the I Ching's always correct." Isn't it Ok to admit that, for whatever reason, the oracle is simply wrong or purposely misleading a certain percentage of the time? What do folks think about this idea? Thank you.
cssslw
 

dobro p

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lightofreason said:
You dont make sense here

Be clear: I don't make sense to you. But I make tons of sense to me.

lightofreason said:
This PARTICULAR perspective is covered in the Emotional I Ching material - so tell me where you find issue with THAT, dont worry about the IDM etc being too hard for you - we can keep it simple. WHAT in the Emotional I Ching do you have issues with?

It's the categories that you use. They elicit no spark of recognition in me. My objection doesn't come from my intellect - I can learn the system if I want to, it's not difficult. But why would I want to? There's no 61.2 in the system for me. It doesn't talk to me. It has no beauty, poetry or power. It's the lack of power that's the main problem for me. Things with power talk to me. You're trying to convince people here that your system is somehow inherent in the human psyche/nervous system, but if that were the case, your system would resonate with me, it would glow. But it doesn't. I'm sorry. l'm glad you're here, cuz you're reliable. But the XOR doesn't talk to me. You're more important to me than the XOR, and anybody who says different is an anus.
 
J

jesed

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Hi

Just some minor clarifications

a) I don't know other answers, but the answer I commented (hex 2 unchanging) wasn't positive at all. And you can search the forum to see that I have give the same advice to the same answer. (See donjuan's thread about romantic relationship, when he got 2 unchanging I said to him: separation, hex 2 unchanging is called, in mathematical method a total clash); in your case, my comment was polite, maybe my mistake

b) I don't say that what reality seems to be is opposite to what Yi adviced you; I'm saying that reality confirms Yi's advice.

But seems it is part of your Way to remain in the expectative to be again with her. Hope you made it, if that is good for you.

Best wishes
 
L

lightofreason

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dobro said:
It's the categories that you use. They elicit no spark of recognition in me.

which categories? - you mean the questions? they are not supposed to elicit details, they are intentionally GENERAL questions passed to your emotions. Your emotions in response to the questions will encode the current emotional state and THAT is used to derive the hexagrams since there is isomorphism between the categories of emotion and the categories of yin/yang.

The data the emotions give back are approximations that give enough to derive a general hexagram that your consciousness will then 'fill in the dots' to go either "we agree" or else the hexagram reflects an emotional state that consciousness has been trying to suppress.

The generality acts to bypass consciousness/reason details, there is nothing to link to specifically, but when passed to the emotions their reply will always be emotion ladened and so mapping to the categories of emotion coming out of fight/flight and so mapable to the IC hexagrams.

The generality of the questions makes them uncensorable and so bypassable of such. We then (a) exploit the nature of emotions in the form of always an emotional reply and (b) their approximation nature - they dont need 'detail' to give an answer.


As for XOR, it just extracts details about a hexagram, its properties and methods etc but if you dont want that detail that is up to you.

The focus on XOR is to know your hexagrams, to know the full spectrum of the GENERAL and zoom-in with personal material from there. NOT knowing the general means you are working off ad-hoc processes and that is not efficient.

Chris.
 

Sparhawk

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cssslw said:
Now, I Ching apologists seem to be saying that because the reality of what has transpired seems to be the opposite of what the I Ching advised me, that it is still me who is mistaken. However, I get the feeling that if things had gone smashingly well with Stacey, those same people would have said "See. the I Ching's always correct." Isn't it Ok to admit that, for whatever reason, the oracle is simply wrong or purposely misleading a certain percentage of the time? What do folks think about this idea? Thank you.
cssslw

Let me give you a third option that I've experienced myself several times in my consultations: "The Yi may be "answering" something, perhaps unspoken, that's really more important for your present or near future, than the actual, uttered question..."

As for polarized opinions about the inner workings of the Yi, well, let's say the world is divided between a 2007AD and a 1000BC mentality... The total mass of 1000BC beings, and thus its inertia, is overwhelmingly heavier than those on the 2007AD side... Perhaps, by 3000AD, we'll all get it, but, alas, I doubt any of us will be around. (although I envision, like in a Futurama episode, a talking head in a jar, uncannily resembling present Chris... :D )

L
 

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