No resonance

[Luise74]

O asked whether I should completely vanish from the life of my ancient friend as m, hope for friendship and soul mate proved ridiculous and it is obvious he is not interested. I think I do myself a favour not to hope any longer.
I chings answer 58 leading to 17. I don’t find a sense. Thank you for your opinion if any.

 

[rosada]

58.2 - 17. Communication - Following.
Looks to me as if the I Ching is saying 58. Conversation has to be a two way street and here it's his turn to say or do something you can respond to / 17. Follow. So it does seem to be saying that yes, for now, until he makes some gesture towards you, it's better you not continue to focus on him.

(edited to show correct change line.)

 

[psychonaut613]

I think maybe it says following joy, so whatever will bring you joy, follow it

 

[rosada]

Oh, my bad. I meant 58.2.

The I Ching doesn't give yes-or-no answers. It's more like it gives you a photograph of the situation and you have to decide if it means yes or no.
The change line for 58.2 reads "Sincere confident communication. Good fortune. Remorse disappears". This does sound like "If it makes you happy go for it," however Luise has told us she feels her friend is not offering her any sincere confident communication at all, and indeed, so far following this man is making her very UNhappy. So knowing this I see the I Ching as saying "Remorse disappears and you have good fortune [only] when you follow someone who's communication is confident and sincere" So knowing that, Luise can now look at the situation and evaluate for herself if what he's offering is sincere, and thus whether or not she should step back. The answer wont tell her what to do but it can guide her decision by telling her what to look for. Wilhelm elaborates on this idea with his comment, "We often find ourselves associating with inferior people in whose company we are tempted by pleasures that are not appropriate for the superior man. To participate in such pleasures would certainly bring remorse, for a superior man can find no real satisfaction in low pleasures. When, recognizing this a man does not permit his will to swerve, so that he does not find such ways agreeable, not even dubious companions will venture to proffer any base pleasures, because he would not enjoy them. Thus every cause for regret is removed."

 

[dfreed]

(My) hope for friendship and a soul mate proved ridiculous and it is obvious he is not interested. I think I do myself a favor not to hope any longer. I Ching's answer 58.2 leading to 17.

Hex. 58 depicts trigram (three-line figure) Lake both above and below. One name for 58 is 'Discussion'. Trigram Lake is also associated with joy and - probably most importantly in this case - communication.

I may be wrong, but I wonder if you two started out as - and are still friends, and perhaps he is fine with this; and could it be that you are wanting more - maybe love and a soulmate?

Line 58. 2 reads 'prisoner of war talks; good fortune, problems disappear'.

The questions I think you need to ask - the 'talk' you need to have with yourself - might be: what or whom is holding you prisoner? Is it your friend, who just wants things to be as they are; or is it your desire for something different, something more? And if you can come to terms with this ....

I hope that's of some use to you. It would be interesting to know if I'm even in the ballpark here.

Best, D

 

[diamant]

whether I should completely vanish from the life of my ancient friend 58.2 > 17

A truthful exchange (58.2) which is then followed up and followed through.
Has he ever told you that he doesn't want to be a couple with you?
If he has, then believe him, he was telling the truth, and intends to follow through his words.

Should you continue wanting a partner who doesn't want to be your partner?
No. It's a waste of your precious time.

 

[Luise74]

Thank you all very much. I think you are right concerning the situation and my silly secret wishes. Love you all for this.

 

[rosada]

Life hack for getting over it:
Never mention his name aloud again. Saying a person's name aloud reactivates the energies. Come up with a nick name if you must refer to him at all but do not say his name. It may take awhile to wash that man out of your hair but never fear, every cell in the human body is replaced in seven years so eventually this too shall pass.

 

[Luise74]

Thank you. Perhaps should I tell you the whole Story. This Person was my first love when I was 18. Then he disappeared and I found him by pure incident in Facebook 55 years later. As you guess we are both old and Marlies for decades. But I wrote to him and he answered and seemed happy, all of a sudden we seemed to be young again and he wrote very gently and me, like I was 18 again, could not stop thinking and wishing we could be friends again like soul mates. All of a ist he did not answer any more so I suppose it is as I knew it 55 years ago, he vanished again. So do not believe i am not aware how funny this is for young people. I have a very good husband since 40 years and did not in the least plan to hurt whoever. But I feel terrible now because again I do not understand what happened. And why does this happen to me at all? I am quite a normal grandmother I thought. Now unhappy like half a century ago. I ching gave no answer to my respective questions except 4 with no changing lines. This means fool?
Thank you for your time and interest.

 

[mandarin_23]

Hi Luise 74,
4 unchanged is youthful folly. This short conversation brings you back to the worries of your youth, and also tells you how to handle this with gentleness and openness. There might be something which is just inexplainable. He disappeared for some reason 55 years ago and he can't explain this to you. Maybe there are no words. There might be something about him you just don't know or don't understand, and it is good to tolerate this state of not-knowing or not-understanding.
58.2 tell about a good and sincere communication, but also - sincerity towards yourself and others.
All the very best,
Mandarine_23

 

[Luise74]

Thank you for your answer. He disappeared because He lost my adress He pretends. Lol. I know it is not true. Just like not answering now, as there is no address to loose. He pretends to live in an unhappy marriage. Lol again. Nobody remains in an unhappy Situation for 50 years. At least I would not. I told him sincerely that my life was and is a happy one and I would like to be friends, so we could exchange our thoughts and feelings. You guess I had no intention to disturb whatever. Cutting of our corresponding without any word is like disappearing 55 years ago and I don’t expect any secret, it just hurts that this happened now to me. I feel really unhappy because I was sincere and spoke frankly to him. Anyway, thank you for your friendly answer as I recognize myself in hex 4,.youthful folly.
Hope you guys learn at least that age is no protection against foolish behaviour.

 

[dfreed]

He lost my address He pretends. Lol. I know it is not true. Just like not answering now, as there is no address to loose. He pretends to live in an unhappy marriage. ... no protection against foolish behaviour.

I'm thinking, if these are 'messages' you're getting from him, and this is how you feel, I don't see that you need the I Ching to get an answer or tell you what to do. Yes?

 

[rosada]

This seems to me to be a very odd comment. I don't see a need for Luise to give you an answer though she might see a need to tell you what to do...

 

[Luise74]

Of course I know what to do or better not to do. I was asking the i ching because I wonder why this whole thing happened now and why i feel so hurt.
I am living with i ching since almost 30 years but never met someone to discuss and it is very interesting to learn from others. Thank you all.

 

[dfreed]

O asked whether I should completely vanish from the life of my ancient friend as m, hope for friendship and soul mate proved ridiculous and it is obvious he is not interested.

I was asking the i ching because I wonder why this whole thing happened now and why i feel so hurt.

Hello Luise: so it seems you have asked both if you should completely vanish from your friend's life, AND you also asked why this happened.

Part of my interpretation is:

Line 58. 2 reads 'prisoner of war talks; good fortune, problems disappear'.

The questions I think you need to ask - the 'talk' you need to have with yourself - might be: what or whom is holding you prisoner? Is it your friend, who just wants things to be as they are; or is it your desire for something different, something more? And if you can come to terms with this ....

I think that you "should completely vanish from the life" of your friend, IF you can't accept that he and you want different things -- and that what he is offering is not what you want or need! And I think that part of the 'WHY this is happening right now' is because you are not accepting of this situation - at least not yet.

It does hurt when we realize that someone is not the soulmate we had hoped for, or dreamed of, and that is - unfortunately - part of the dance we humans do. But I don't think this means he's at fault because he didn't fit the description of what you are looking for.

Kindly, D

 

[Luise74]

Thank you. Today he wrote and asked whether we could date and I answered come over and bring your wife and meet my husband and I think this is what we should do. No answer yet.

 

[rosada]

Bravo Luise! Well played!
We crossed posts, Meanwhile I wanted to comment on your asking the I Ching for insight on why this happened and why you feel hurt.
Hexagram 4. Youthful Folly describes a situation where no amount of outside advice can be helpful. It's something you simply have to go through to understand. Like you can't learn to ride a bike by having someone tell you how to do it - you can only learn by hopping on. Likewise, you probably blamed yourself for his ghosting you all those years ago. No one could have convinced you then that it wasn't somehow your fault so now years later the unfinished lesson comes around again (and yes, isn't it bizarre how these issues come up again in our 70's when we thought we'd be allowed to just sit in our chairs and rock? Sigh..) But the good news is this time around you are now able to recognize it wasn't your fault then at all, his disappearing was all about him.
Hexagram 4 also means you are being confronted with a brand new situation and it's kind of a test to see what you've learned so far and how you will respond. I think your refusing to accept his ghosting you like he was dumping you like some foolish teenager he'd gotten his way with and instead you offering him an opportunity to grow up and be an adult was a brilliant response.
And of course you felt hurt, you're human, yes?

 

[dfreed]

Today he wrote and asked whether we could date and I answered come over and bring your wife and meet my husband ....

So, are you telling us that now - after holding you at arm's length - he now wants to date you, even though both of your are still married? And your response to his advances (and considering that you still are looking at him as a potential 'soulmate') is that all four of you, including your spouses should all get together and meet?

I didn't get any of that from the Yi's response to you, but if that's how you're interpreting it - and you think this is the best course of action - so be it .... Or perhaps I am not clearly understanding what you're saying here ....

Best, D

 

[rosada]

I think you are missing the subtleties here, D. By responding to his suggestion that they date, by counter offering that they all meet as friends, she has deftly avoided insulting him and signaled that while she doesn't want to have an affair, she still enjoys knowing him and that if he can accept her boundaries she would admit him into her social group. So does he want to know her as a friend or was he just looking for a fling? Basically she called his bluff.

 

[dfreed]

I think you are missing the subtleties here, D .... Basically she called his bluff.

It just seems to me that this not at all what the reading is saying nor pointing to. And if you engage in playing 'bluffing' games with someone you are accusing of playing games ...? That seems like a bit of a slippery slope, especially with someone whom you thought of (or secretly still want) as your potential soulmate.

But you may be correct - that I'm missing the subtleties here. Just think of it as a 'guy thing'.

 

[Luise74]

I interpreted i ching 4 like being foolish to want a soul mate I know from my youth and 58 seemed to mean discuss this with friends and these are you perhaps? I concluded without any further considering the book that I should invite him socially and see what happens and until now no answer. It seems obvious that he is stuck in the old situation but I will not accept it.
You were of great help to me. Thank you.

 

[Trojina]

.

Now unhappy like half a century ago. I ching gave no answer to my respective questions except 4 with no changing lines. This means fool?

I interpreted i ching 4 like being foolish to want a soul mate I know from my youth

Just to say, though I haven't followed the whole thread, hexagram 4 means far more than just 'you are a fool'. It can simply point to the fact that there is much you don't know about the subject in question, That's not the same as just 'fool'. Often there are actual things to find out you haven't found out yet and you will need to go beyond Yi to find them out.