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noisy neighbors: Hex 31.3.4 -> hex. 8

elizabeth

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How can I best act to ensure more quiet from my upstairs neighbors?

Hex 31.3.4 Wooing, and Hex 8 Holding Together

Hex 31
Influence. Success.
Perseverance furthers.
To take a maiden to wife brings good fortune.
The Image: A lake on the mountain:
The image of Influence.
Thus the superior man encourages people to approach him
By his readiness to receive them.

Line 3: The influence shows itself in the thighs.
Holds to that which follows it.
To continue is humiliating.

Line 4: Perseverance brings good fortune.
Remorse disappears.
If a man is agitated in mind,
And his thoughts go hither and thither,
Only those friends
On whom he fixes his conscious thoughts
Will follow.

Hex 8:
Holding Together brings good fortune.
Inquire of the oracle once again
Whether you possess sublimity, constancy, and perseverance;
Then there is no blame.
Those who are uncertain gradually join.
Whoever comes too late
Meets with misfortune.
+++

1) To continue *what* is humiliating? Enduring the noise? Posting notes on their door? Knocking on the ceiling? Calling the phone that doesnt work bc they haven't paid the bill? Knocking on the door and having them not answer? Trying to work with earplugs in? (all of which i've done)
2) does either line indicate the need to simply move apartments?
3) what does the suggestion in Hex 8 to inquire of the oracle again mean? What would I ask?
4) is there ANY hope they will die and leave me in peace?!?!...OK maybe dont answer that last one but the other questions are serious :)
 

my_key

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Hi elizabeth

31 Image in Karcher says " Grasping the woman opens the way" = perhaps an opportunity to speak with her about the situation.
Line 3 - stay cool don't let it all get to you. Be calm in all discussions.
Line 4 - It's going to take a while and a few ups and downs but you'll win through.
Hex 8 - maybe others in the block are having the same issues. Join with them for mutual help

Love and hugs
Mike
 

elizabeth

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my_key,

*sighing in release of all the tension that has built up over the past few hours due to the loud musak*

Thank you. This sounds promising. It would help if she would answer her door though.

I wonder what the timeframe for line 4 is? Perhaps I"ll ask the Yi that.

(pause)

OK it said Hex 26.3.6 Taming power of the great, and hex 19 Approach. Jesed used to be great with drawing timeframes from the hexagrams. I dont know if anyone here is familiar w/that method. In any case here are the descriptions for quick reference:

26 - The Taming Power of the Great. Perseverance furthers. Not eating at home brings good fortune. It furthers one to cross the great water.

Heaven within the mountain:The image of The Taming Power of the Great. Thus the superior man aquaints himself with many sayings of antiquity And many deeds of the past, In order to strengthen his character thereby.

Line 3: A good horse that follows others.
Awareness of danger,
With perseverance, furthers.
Practice chariot driving and armed defense daily.
It furthers one to have somewhere to go.

Line 6: One attains the way of heaven. Success.

Hex 19:
Approach has supreme success.
Perseverance furthers.
When the eight month comes,
There will be misfortune.

The earth above the lake:
The image of Approach.
Thus the superior man is inexhaustible
In his will to teach,
And without limits
In his tolerance and protection of the people.
 
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my_key

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Hi Elizabeth
I'm not to clued up on the timings either.

I don't want to worry you here but Hex 19 talks about 8 months. Maybe that's why Hex 26 is advising you to eat out more.:rofl:

What are you doing Saturday night? :flirt: :D

Love and Hugs

Mike
 

rosada

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Elizabeth, I have a different spin on your original question.
I think 31.3 is telling you to consider moving. Seems to be saying it's time to move on, to continue to fuss with these people is just holding you back. I would think this would be especially true if you have been considering moving already for other reasons.
31.4 Is very positive for influencing people, getting your heart's desire, but perhaps it could be seen as a warning not to waste this extremly auspicious time with these folks if you were considering a move.

The image of hexagram 8 is interesting:
The kings of antiquity
Bestowed the different states as fiefs
And cultivated friendly relations.

Sounds like they are directing you to someone who is King here and has the power to declare whose fief is whose and enforce rules that cultivate friendly relations - that sounds like a landlord to me! Is it a rental situation? If so this maybe directing you to take your concerns to the landlord.

Best wishes,
Rosada
 

elizabeth

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:) Mike- were you joking about eating out? :)

Eight months! You've got to be kidding. I'm in a foreign country, renting, and I'm here FOR another 11 months. I have not considered moving again. I really dont know if i can handle this for 8 more months. I moved last November (2006) and again in May this year to this place. In all honesty I do not have the cash to pay another 100% agency fee and move. I *have* already spoken to the landlady, I've tried EVERYTHING. Lately they turn off the musak at 10:45 pm which is AWESOME but that's when I start a two+ hour wind down process bc I am so on edge. I'm so behind on sleep that I fell asleep at 6pm last night, only to be awakened by their booming music an hour later that continued until after 10pm. I can't hear my own TV when their music is on, and forget about working or thinking... Really I do not know what to do which is why I asked this question...

Legally they're allowed to make as much noise as they want. but from a "friendly neighbor, we all share the planet" perspective I cannot fathom inconveniencing other people like this with no regard whatsoever to their health or well-being. It's an unemployed female up there btw, quite likely uneducated as well.
 

willowfox

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How can I best act to ensure more quiet from my upstairs neighbors?

Hex 31.3.4 Wooing, and Hex 8 Holding Together

Basically it says don't try to do anything direct because it is not going to work, plus you are an outsider her.
 

elizabeth

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wf

Willowfox, which part of the reading says do not do anything?

My being an outsider is irrelevant to the reading. My landlady/landlord as well as all the other tenants in the building have never seen this noisy person. Likewise, the noisy person does not know who, or how many people live below her. For all they know, I live with my landlady and her family. Formerly four people lived in my apartment. So I do not see how my being "an outsider" is relevant especially when it is not a fact available to the noisy tenant.
 

schastlivchik

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Hi Elizabeth,

What you are searching for is more peace. And at home. Two things that should go together, but don't always in communities! I've had similar problems before, too. Sometimes, however, we have little control over what's going on outside. What you can do to ensure peace, then, may depend more on you, than on your neighbor.

The inner trigram Mountain shows extreme yang accumulating at the top. I would allow this accumulated steam to vent by going out, being away during times that are likely to be noisy. It is interesting to note that Mountain symbolizes a home, and that it changes to Earth which symbolizes the multitude. It can show the process of leaving the house behind and going out into the public, in the sense that you get out more and meet with people. You may even meet new people, or find a favorite evening place to be rather than in the apartment. This may be a prompting from the Universe for you to make some lifestyle changes!

The upper trigram Lake shows bottled up yang at the bottom. As Lake symbolizes the mouth, I think it means that an eventual meeting/conversation is involved, so just keep trying on that end. However, it also shows that by being a changing 4 yang in a yin place, the emotions might exacerbate the situation/conversation right now. I think everything points to your being flexible and going out more often, allowing tension to dissipate, all the while keeping your fixed goal of meeting with her and discussing the problem.

I sure hope this helps.

all the best,
Schastlivchik
 

rosada

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Oops, sorry Elizabeth. I thought when you asked if any of the lines indicated a move that moving actually was an option. Since it isn't, then I guess hex.8 points to you continuing to try to "cultivate friendly relations" with this woman and also to keep the landlord aware of the situation.
Since you were asking about timing and both 26.3 and 19 refer to learning situations, I wonder if there is anything coming up in your world that could be discribed as a class? Perhaps the I Ching is promising that by the time school starts this drama will have settled down?
I hope you will let us know how this all finally resolves itself just so we'll know what 31.3.4>8 really means.

Chanting "Nam myho ringay kyo" often dissolves discord.
 

willowfox

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Willowfox, which part of the reading says do not do anything?

My being an outsider is irrelevant to the reading. My landlady/landlord as well as all the other tenants in the building have never seen this noisy person. Likewise, the noisy person does not know who, or how many people live below her. For all they know, I live with my landlady and her family. Formerly four people lived in my apartment. So I do not see how my being "an outsider" is relevant especially when it is not a fact available to the noisy tenant.

What I meant was that you are an outsider to your above neighbour, you are not part of her group, Hex 8, as you have never meet or talked to her, so you cannot influence her. To influence her you must talk to her but Hex 31.3,4 says if you try to do something it won't work.
 

rosada

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Interesting, Willowfox. Your responce - that if she tries to DO something it wont work - caused me to go back and review her question. Elizabeth, the way you worded your question seemed to impy you were not going to DO anything, but wanted to know how you should BE. You asked, "How should I ACT?" and hexagram 8 seems to be saying "Act friendly and approachable."
31.4 is actually a very positive line (At least I thought it was! Check out our discussion on the Memorizing thread) but it does caution against focusing on one person. That coupled with your getting hex.26 all about group discussion makes me wonder if there is some way you could further your Friendly connection with this neighbor by hosting a group gathering at your place? Perhaps there is some local political topic of interest and you could host a discussion night. (I think this is preferable to inviting her to a party because that's just more loud music!) If she were to come she might start talking to you, not just about the political issue, but about the noise level too. Also, even if she doesn't come, it may cause her to keep the music down that night - and if she doesn't you'd have a whole group to go upstairs and bang on her door!
 
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willowfox

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The exact question was; "How can I best act to ensure more quiet from my upstairs neighbors?"

And my exact answer would be to do nothing.
 

my_key

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:) Mike- were you joking about eating out? :)

Hi Elizabeth

No - You should get out more when the the noise is too great. You need some support in this situation. Trouble is I don't even know if we are in teh same hemisphere.:)

Schastlivchik made the same point and gave some really good advice. If staying in the house is getting you up tight then get out and chill. A library, wine bar, cinema .... anywhere but away from the noise that is controlling your life at teh moment. You may not be able to solve the problem totally & immediately but you can be proactive in lessening it's impact on your life and well-being.

As with all of life's tribulations try to find some positive in the situation- it's difficult I know, but if you look hard enough, you will find something. Latch onto it and this will be teh thin end of theh wedge leading you to better times.

And yes I did have my tongue in my cheek about the 8 months.

Love and hugs

Mike
 

elizabeth

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Shastlivchik, spasibo. Govoriite po-russky? Esli da, to ya seechas v Pitere. Zhivu v Rossii uzhe 3 goda, 4 mesyatza.

And if you don't speak Russian, I'll write in English :).

Thanks for your interpretation. You have a good point. I"m usually so tired by 9pm in the evening on a weeknight that I haven't the desire to go out. But it might, as you said, lead to better things. Luckily many nights I *am* out (theatre critic) until after the noise is quiet. It's just that when I want to have an early QUIET evening at home, I can't do that, and it raises my blood pressure to no end.

Willowfox -- thank you for the clarification. That makes sense. ALthough, doing nothing isn't improving things either :-(.

Mike - I'm in the uh, GMT plus three hours timezone, so three hours later than London. :) Is that near you? :)
I'm completely open to a night out! :)

Rosada -- I saw your first post only after this last one. I did ask about how I should "act" bc I wanted the Yi to say "be aggressive/go up and contact/confront the neighbor" OR "do nothing." In some ways maybe it's irrelevant bc notes on the door and pounding on the ceiling dont help. DOing nothing also doesnt get them to quiet down. Mike and Shastlivchik's suggestions -- to get out during the noisy hours -- seem to make the most logical sense.

The group meeting. My goal has been to have my landlady and her husband and myself go up there sometime when the music is on and the neighbor is home. To date that hasn't happened bc they come by when the neighbor is out (and they come by usu only once per month for the rent). Or was your point to focus the meeting on something other than noise? Given this person's total avoidance of the building people I doubt there would be any reaction to any invitation of any kind, whatsoever...

Classes. Hmm. I'm thinking. I just joined an international women's club, and it is CERTAINLY a source of learning and meeting new people, but that isn't a class. There *is* a very very very slight possibility of some housesitting for women in the club but that won't be til later this year, and this neighbor issue is a nightly problem. As for education, the school year already began here (today being Sept. 13). So I imagined if this neighbor were in school and if their being in school would resolve the problem, it would have been resolved already. Whether school or work however, they are home and playing music in the evenings. As I sit and type this I have earplugs shoved in my ears.

I will try that chant. I've tried black magic too. Hasn't helped yet. :) Willing to try anything!
 
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my_key

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Mike - I'm in the uh, GMT plus three hours timezone, so three hours later than London. :) Is that near you? :)
I'm completely open to a night out! :)

Hi Elizabeth
I'm located about 3 hours drive from london. I don't think I'm going to be able to make it this Saturday - even if I left home now.:)

Mike
 

willowfox

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Willowfox -- thank you for the clarification. That makes sense. ALthough, doing nothing isn't improving things either :-(.

The reason I say to do nothing is because the more worked up you get, it only affects you, it is having no effect whatsoever on your neighbour because she has never even talked to you. And, in all probability, even if you were to say something, she could well take it as an attack and retaliate. All you can do is try to remain calm and hope she finally goes away.
 

elizabeth

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Mike - That's okay. Another time perhaps? :) Actually yes, it would require more than a three hour drive, and over a sea or gulf or bay or all of the above :)

Willowfox - I see your point now. My irritation doesn't result in her quieting down obviously...and I've often wondered if I did talk to her if she would, as you suggested, just turn the music on louder for longer. There *are* inconsiderate, unintelligent, cruel human beings on the planet. She seems to be one of them.
 

my_key

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Mike - That's okay. Another time perhaps? :) Actually yes, it would require more than a three hour drive, and over a sea or gulf or bay or all of the above :)

Hi Elizabeth
I take my advanced astral traveling exam next week. Maybe after that time zones will not be such a big deal.
We could then make a date for last Saturday .:)
Love and hugs
Mike
 

elizabeth

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Mike -

Okay. Or, you know, two weeks ago would work for me too. Whatever fits your schedule :)
 

my_key

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Sorry can't make it then. I was out having a meal with Elizabeth that night.:confused:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

elizabeth

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ha ha. Very slick. At least we know that the past was promising! ;-)

But did you tell me not to lock my keys into my corridor on Sunday the 9th? That was a 7-hour fiasco I'd like to have avoided. With your help, of course, at this point, I can correct that :) You might pop back in and let me know :)
 
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schastlivchik

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Elizabeth,

Kruto! Da, govoru tozhe po-russki... a stranno anliiskimi bukvami pisat'!

I really hope things work out for you in that situation.

Schastlivchik
 

elizabeth

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Schastlivchik,

Da, stranno, angliskimi bukvami, soglasno. No tak naverno nuzhno kogda cyrillskimi nevozmozhno. Po krainei mere, tak delaiut dazhe russkie kotorie ya znaiu v CWA.

Spasibo za vashi zhelanie -- tozhe nadeius, shto vsyo budet *tixo* ...i kak mozhno skoree!
 

elizabeth

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I can't do this anymore and something has to change. Last night was the first night of quiet here i have had in weeks. I slept like a log for ten straight hours, got up and worked for four hours and fell back asleep for two. I am so sleep-deprived, it is a wonder I can function at all. But last night was short lived. The neighbor is back, the music is on and I can't even hear my TV. I am counting the minutes until the hour when, by law he/she must turn it down or off. I can't work when the music is blaring and yet today I got more done in those quiet hours during the day (brief tho they were) than I have in entire weeks. (I work faster than the average person when I'm well rested).

I phoned my landlady per our agreement to phone when it was noisy> She can't come by tonight, their car is broken. I said okay, I will phone again later this week. I plan to call on Thursday regardless.

So I asked the Yi "what shall I do to achieve a peaceful working day?" (I wanted an open ended question). I meant this regarding the neighbors but didn't include those words. The Yi said Hex 57.2 and hex 53.

57 is a soft form of transition. "A subtle controlling influence, through persuasion, forces one to adapt to the change conditions and therefore themselves change. Serving and cultivating (05) combined with ascending (46) leads to cultivation and influence". Line 2 signifies subservience, or ""[The basis(foundations) of current social influences]. Using historians and mediums, the cloudy is made favourable. No harm in this." [Correcting the official history of the past.] "

The image is: "Winds following one upon the other:
The image of the Gently Penetrating.
Thus the superior man
Spreads his commands abroad
And carries out his undertakings."

Does anyone know the significance of that word "abroad"?

Am I on the right path, asking the landlord to come by and talk to the person along with me (safety in numbers) and it will be a male talking to whomever is making all this noise, along with me, so it won't be just two women, which owuldnt have much effect here.

Thoughts? What is the Yi saying to me?
 

my_key

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So I asked the Yi "what shall I do to achieve a peaceful working day?" (I wanted an open ended question). I meant this regarding the neighbors but didn't include those words. The Yi said Hex 57.2 and hex 53.

Hi Elizabeth

If you look at the sequencing 57 follows 56 - you are living in exile and lack a tolerant place to stay. Acknowleding this allows you to use Gently Penetrating. Gently Penetrating implies entering a situation from below.
Don't show your involvement, hide your influence.
Hidden possibility with 57 of turning divergent views into creative tension. The solution isn't jumping out at you at the moment but with some real soul searching you can find a way to turn this situation around to a more favourable position.

I'm sure if you keep your calm and listen to your inner voice all will become clearer for you. I always find it helpful to send love and kind thoughts to people when I'm in this sort of situation. Be brave and do something that you wouldn't normally consider doing.

This sounds like it is a real trial for you at the moment and it is clear from your posts that you are suffering a great deal. But I'm positive that you will come through this and have learnt a great lesson from the experience.

The outcome is going to be good i.e. 53 -Gradual advance. Achieve a goal through adaptibility.

Love and hugs
Mike
 
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elizabeth

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Thanks Mike. What I've learned is to rent ONLY the top floor of any building in the future, or to win the lottery and become a millionaire so I dont have to deal with the scum of the earth anymore...

(Yes, negative bc no sleep! )

But thanks for your interpretation. The "hidden approach from below" meshes with my plan to have the landlord go up (with or w/o my presence) as if he is living where I am and hopefully get something accomplished. I am praying it will have some effect. Thanks for your input and thoughts, I do appreciate it.
 

my_key

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.....so I dont have to deal with the scum of the earth anymore...
OK - so you are ignoring the love and kind thoughts advice.:)

I hope the landlord approach works out for you.

Mike
 

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