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Odd perpetual- loop reading- 53:3:6 to 8, 47:2:4 to 8

picklebop

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Hi lovely people. I've been lurking for ages and finally joined.
I have had an odd reading and would really appreciate your guidance!

The background: I'm been in an ambiguous friendship for several years. I have strong feelings, but the other party is currently reuniting with an ex. I'm intending to break off the friendship for my own sake, and get past my internal attachment and distress, but it is difficult. (This kind of situation is a repeating one in general for me).

My role in life has so far been as a seeker without finding; I don't compromise on integrity and follow my intuition. It's been pretty tough and alone, due to this- I generally get The Wanderer a lot in readings.

The question I asked was whether I would ever find anyone I cared about as much, a true match, if I did the work on myself... considering my life context.

The answer was 53:3:6 to 8. I understand Uniting (8) requests you rethrow to test your ability and commitment, I did so.

This gave 47:2:4 to 8 again. I am puzzled by the significance of this, as it seems potentially muddling to rethrow, but significant that unchanging 8 repeated, so would love to know your thoughts!

My feelings from v.1 that it's implying I need to be patient and keep going. That makes perfect sense. But the second throw implying a block was puzzling: I'm not sure why it came up there, unless it's implying results are a long way off, impossible, or have multiple barriers.

I know I do need to integrate myself first (I'm healing from an abusive childhood and abusive relationships) but as I already intend to do that I don't think internal uniting is the meaning. I wondered if repeating patterns were being hinted at, but that doesn't quite fit either...
 
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moss elk

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The question I asked was whether I would ever find anyone I cared about as much, a true match, if I did the work on myself... considering my life context.

The answer was 53:3:6 to 8

The answer is interesting.

I think it says essentially,

"yes you Gradually can get this Union,
& here is how:
line 3: learn to recognize and avoid predators (like the selfish, abusive, users you have been attracted to, you'll have to start recognizing them as simply that: & stop kidding yourself with fantasies that cloud your perception of them. You can't fix, change, or heal them: you only get to be a snack.
line 6: seek the kind of person that you could grow old with: hint they aren't the predator types, they will be kind and committed."

I hope that helps.
 
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dfreed

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[will I] ever find anyone I cared about as much, a true match, if I did the work on myself... considering my life context. The answer was 53:3:6 to 8.

Hex. 53 reads: "Auspicious for a girl's [or guy's] wedding" (based on trans. by Rutt), so yes, finding a match certainly seems like a possibility.

Looking at 58's trigrams (3-line figures): you have Mountain below, with one moving line (3rd) resulting in Earth (8's upper trigram) ... and you have Wind above with the top line moving - resulting in Water.

So, here you are seeking a 'true match' but you are inwardly a bit stuck (mountain); therefore, you need to work on yourself (earth), including how to best care for - and maybe love - yourself, and that you need to learn to be 'down-to-earth' in your approach to relationships. Outwardly, this takes you from looking in all different directions (wind) and in different ways (which is often a very necessary starting point) - to looking for what you want in a deeper, and more focused, more directed way (water).

This reminds me of one name for Hex. 53, 'Settling' - the lines talk about 'wild geese settling on the shore ... disastrous' (53.3) and then 'wild geese settling on the peak ... auspicious' (53.6): perhaps this is saying that even with/after working on yourself, you may need to do a bit more wandering (and have a few more false-settlings), before you finally settle on the correct peak!

I hope that's of use to you.

D
 
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D

diamant

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whether I would ever find anyone I cared about as much, a true match, if I did the work on myself
The question is highly complex and vague.
So you're asking if working on yourself will result in:
a) someone you care about (no reciprocity..?)
b) a true match (matching the basic you, or the improved worked-on version?)

whether I would ever find anyone I cared about as much, a true match, if I did the work on myself
53.3.6 > 8

Line 53.3 shows a clear and definitive separation/loss.
Line 56.6 shows hope even after loss.
8 shows being together side by side with someone.
But because the question was so complex, I'm not sure exactly how it would apply.

rethrow to test your ability and commitment
47.2.4 > 8 again

This question is also vague.
So, are you doubting yourself? Are you doubting that you would be able to commit to someone?
Line 47.2 shows someone oppressed, in an inferior and servile position.
Line 47.4 shows infuriatingly slow progress.
8 shows being together side by side with someone.
All this oppression and slowness are worrying in this context.
It's almost as if this is saying "if you're servile and patient, then you can keep a partner".

Looking at both readings again, I think they might both be referring to your on/off relationship, and also the pattern you have as you say. The partner leaves, you still have hope, you still get together. The partner bread-crumbs you, and takes forever to arrive, but you still get together.
 

marybluesky

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Hello picklebop;

First of all, as someone who has been in a similar situation with a friend I'll tell you first of all, GET RID OF HIM. With any possible means:cool:. In my case, I finally found him single, asked him to be my boyfriend, got intimate with him & saw how far the relationship could go- which wasn't that far. Then I was free from his spell.

53.3.6>8 shows someone leaving, then another one who'll stay on your side through all the obstacles. Beautiful reading. To be honest, tough, I've received similar readings & nothing precious happened.

47.2.4>8 indicates depriving one's self amidst plenty, and being released slowly.

You have the 8th program as the result in both readings. To me it speaks about your quest for love.
 

redoleander

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I think you have other solid interpretations here; just also wanted to add that Line 3 could be about unrealistic expectations and perception in your current situation, meaning that seeking something as “good” as this or similar to this, even on a feeling level, wouldn’t make sense. 8 is simply about seeking union. But it’s not always a good idea or well-thought out or successful (see line 3 and line 6 of that hexagram for example). It seems to be about seeking love but a totally different type of love (53.3 to 53.6)

You might need to really release this pattern. Unavailability has an addictive quality to it; they’ve even done experiments, for example, with mice showing that when they receive a pellet inconsistently after hitting the bar (sometimes the pellet comes, sometimes it doesn’t) they hit the bar over and over and over. But when the pellet comes every time, consistently, eventually the mice get bored and stop or don’t do it as often. Unavailable people can seem more appealing than they are because of that inconsistent and unpredictable quality. You keep hitting the bar because you never know what will or won’t come. There’s a chemical addiction going on. That’s some of what you’re feeling so probably don’t want to feel that with the right person. It would be a different feeling altogether. Holding onto this model of life might be like taking the long painful way (47.4)

So I think you have the right idea to explore things that can help you rewire that. Maybe asking questions as they come up on your own healing process would help more than outcome-oriented questions (although obviously we all ask those and it makes total sense why you do!)
 
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picklebop

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The answer is interesting.

I think it says essentially,

"yes you Gradually can get this Union,
& here is how:
line 3: learn to recognize and avoid predators (like the selfish, abusive, users you have been attracted to, you'll have to start recognizing them as simply that: & stop kidding yourself with fantasies that cloud your perception of them. You can't fix, change, or heal them: you only get to be a snack.
line 6: seek the kind of person that you could grow old with: hint they aren't the predator types, they will be kind and committed."

I hope that helps.
Thank you! That's an interesting perspective about recognising predators- I hadn't thought of that but it fits well.
 

picklebop

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whether I would ever find anyone I cared about as much, a true match, if I did the work on myself
The question is highly complex and vague.
So you're asking if working on yourself will result in:
a) someone you care about (no reciprocity..?)
b) a true match (matching the basic you, or the improved worked-on version?)

whether I would ever find anyone I cared about as much, a true match, if I did the work on myself
53.3.6 > 8

Line 53.3 shows a clear and definitive separation/loss.
Line 56.6 shows hope even after loss.
8 shows being together side by side with someone.
But because the question was so complex, I'm not sure exactly how it would apply.

rethrow to test your ability and commitment
47.2.4 > 8 again

This question is also vague.
So, are you doubting yourself? Are you doubting that you would be able to commit to someone?
Line 47.2 shows someone oppressed, in an inferior and servile position.
Line 47.4 shows infuriatingly slow progress.
8 shows being together side by side with someone.
All this oppression and slowness are worrying in this context.
It's almost as if this is saying "if you're servile and patient, then you can keep a partner".

Looking at both readings again, I think they might both be referring to your on/off relationship, and also the pattern you have as you say. The partner leaves, you still have hope, you still get together. The partner bread-crumbs you, and takes forever to arrive, but you still get together.

Thank you! It's really difficult to phrase the questions, as I tend to try to be over descriptive to make it clearer, which has a paradoxical effect. I was thinking of reciprocity, but knowing that as I keep repeating the same mistakes something needs to change.

The rethrow was via the James de Korne interpretation/Gnostic I Ching regarding the unchanging line 8, which says "Inquire of the oracle once again whether you possess sublimity, constancy, and perseverance; then there is no blame." He interprets this an a kind of injunction when throwing this result, though I'm not sure if it's an eccentricity of interpretation or generally common for most I Ching readers. So it's not really that I'm doubting myself, but trying to account for possible liabilities in my approach.

Your interpretation is interesting...I hadn't factored this relationship in at all as I've largely written it off, but maybe the oracle is trying to hammer the facts home first.
 

picklebop

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Hello picklebop;

First of all, as someone who has been in a similar situation with a friend I'll tell you first of all, GET RID OF HIM. With any possible means:cool:. In my case, I finally found him single, asked him to be my boyfriend, got intimate with him & saw how far the relationship could go- which wasn't that far. Then I was free from his spell.

53.3.6>8 shows someone leaving, then another one who'll stay on your side through all the obstacles. Beautiful reading. To be honest, tough, I've received similar readings & nothing precious happened.

47.2.4>8 indicates depriving one's self amidst plenty, and being released slowly.

You have the 8th program as the result in both readings. To me it speaks about your quest for love.
Thank you! I'm glad you managed to break free of it. Your interpretations are really interesting, I like the idea of it referencing a quest as opposed to result.
 

picklebop

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I think you have other solid interpretations here; just also wanted to add that Line 3 could be about unrealistic expectations and perception in your current situation, meaning that seeking something as “good” as this or similar to this, even on a feeling level, wouldn’t make sense. 8 is simply about seeking union. But it’s not always a good idea or well-thought out or successful (see line 3 and line 6 of that hexagram for example). It seems to be about seeking love but a totally different type of love (53.3 to 53.6)

You might need to really release this pattern. Unavailability has an addictive quality to it; they’ve even done experiments, for example, with mice showing that when they receive a pellet inconsistently after hitting the bar (sometimes the pellet comes, sometimes it doesn’t) they hit the bar over and over and over. But when the pellet comes every time, consistently, eventually the mice get bored and stop or don’t do it as often. Unavailable people can seem more appealing than they are because of that inconsistent and unpredictable quality. You keep hitting the bar because you never know what will or won’t come. There’s a chemical addiction going on. That’s some of what you’re feeling so probably don’t want to feel that with the right person. It would be a different feeling altogether. Holding onto this model of life might be like taking the long painful way (47.4)

So I think you have the right idea to explore things that can help you rewire that. Maybe asking questions as they come up on your own healing process would help more than outcome-oriented questions (although obviously we all ask those and it makes total sense why you do!)

Thank you! I agree about the negative aspects of seeking union. Really, I guess it can be a liability as you can seek to absorb harmful elements, or be engulfed. Catching a bug is a kind of union too but that doesn't make it a good aspiration...

The scientific facts about unavailability are apt, thank you for reminding me of them. I think it relates in a funny way to symbolism and divination, in that it represents a particular energy with a magnetic quality. I guess one gets attracted to certain energies and links them to certain symbols (such as love), but gets waylaid and misled.

Divination feels much the same to me sometimes, if I forget to be mindful and do too many readings in too short a space of time. That ends up being too focused on outcome too.

It's an interesting idea too to show the changing lines as a comment on my motivations towards the final hexagram. It's a good think to bear in mind.

With Union I sometimes wonder how to distinguish the personal from the relative...whether it refers to integrating the self or integrating with others. They seem such different things that it's a very difficult hexagram to interpret, for me at least, because the ideal course is then unclear.
 

picklebop

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Hex. 53 reads: "Auspicious for a girl's [or guy's] wedding" (based on trans. by Rutt), so yes, finding a match certainly seems like a possibility.

Looking at 58's trigrams (3-line figures): you have Mountain below, with one moving line (3rd) resulting in Earth (8's upper trigram) ... and you have Wind above with the top line moving - resulting in Water.

So, here you are seeking a 'true match' but you are inwardly a bit stuck (mountain); therefore, you need to work on yourself (earth), including how to best care for - and maybe love - yourself, and that you need to learn to be 'down-to-earth' in your approach to relationships. Outwardly, this takes you from looking in all different directions (wind) and in different ways (which is often a very necessary starting point) - to looking for what you want in a deeper, and more focused, more directed way (water).

This reminds me of one name for Hex. 53, 'Settling' - the lines talk about 'wild geese settling on the shore ... disastrous' (53.3) and then 'wild geese settling on the peak ... auspicious' (53.6): perhaps this is saying that even with/after working on yourself, you may need to do a bit more wandering (and have a few more false-settlings), before you finally settle on the correct peak!

I hope that's of use to you.

D
Thank you! I really like your elemental interpretations, I am not very familiar with those yet so it's really useful.
 
D

diamant

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The rethrow was via the James de Korne interpretation/Gnostic I Ching regarding the unchanging line 8, which says "Inquire of the oracle once again whether you possess sublimity, constancy, and perseverance; then there is no blame." He interprets this an a kind of injunction when throwing this result, though I'm not sure if it's an eccentricity of interpretation or generally common for most I Ching readers. So it's not really that I'm doubting myself, but trying to account for possible liabilities in my approach.

You're very right, many translations render the Judgement of (unchanging) hexagram 8 as a prompt to divine again. The text is unclear, though.

The character rendered as 'twice' by some trasnlators has a dictionary meaning of 'former, original, primary'. Tuck Chang translates it as 'trace back to the fountainhead' and says that that means 'divining twice, or divining very prudently'. Because the meaning is so unclear, my advice would be to avoid recasting, especially when you don't get an unchanging 8.

I had another think about your casts, and the more I look at them the more I feel that they're urging you to review your past relationship, and to question your boundaries and beliefs. Another possibility could be that they're telling you that you're heading towards a new unsavoury relationship - which I don't want to believe, so I'm sticking with the reviewing option!
 

picklebop

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You're very right, many translations render the Judgement of (unchanging) hexagram 8 as a prompt to divine again. The text is unclear, though.

The character rendered as 'twice' by some trasnlators has a dictionary meaning of 'former, original, primary'. Tuck Chang translates it as 'trace back to the fountainhead' and says that that means 'divining twice, or divining very prudently'. Because the meaning is so unclear, my advice would be to avoid recasting, especially when you don't get an unchanging 8.

I had another think about your casts, and the more I look at them the more I feel that they're urging you to review your past relationship, and to question your boundaries and beliefs. Another possibility could be that they're telling you that you're heading towards a new unsavoury relationship - which I don't want to believe, so I'm sticking with the reviewing option!
Thank you for your ideas! I really appreciate the time you took to elaborate them further.
 

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