Oh dear all this talk of love I'm getting carried away..

[em ching]

I would just like interpretations of the following readings, as I am preoccupied with a certain person, but it's the same old story, I'm probably not doing myself any favours, as it does seem the relationship has not been designed to go this way... I have posted about it before and I'm sorry to bang on about the same person, but I feel enveloped by the issue at the mo...

Firstly, is he good for me?
50.2 > 56

I think yes, he cannot harm the goodness of the connection which is deep? But he is a wanderer with problems, or at least preoccupations elsewhere and so could not be capable of giving me what I 'need'...

Do I affect him as he does me? (perhaps it's an illusion, I'm projecting a romantic image on to him, mistaking platonic friendship for more)

22.2, 5 > 9

(I think that says I have little effect, perhaps because he is not attracted to me physically - the external adornments described in Grace... or could it be saying that I am being vain in thinking he does?

Is this reawakened feeling one sided?

38.2, 4, 6 > 24

What do you think? 38 seems to speak of the differences between individuals in a positive way?

Inputwould be much appreciate as I'd like to clarify whether my feelings have importance, or whether they are more of my own making and will go away again when I come to a realisation of the reality of the situation, minus the rose tinted glasses

Thanks
:bows:

 

[sasha]

I think that you are the best qualified one to know if he is a wanderer or not.
If he is then it does seem like he must keep wandering.
The 50 i think may be talking about you... I have just been going through this hex in a different question scenario so I am not sure it is wise to say anything about it yet as I may contaminate it with my recent context, but is this a situation that in some ways is reoccurring for you? any common denominators with previous situations?

..... is my humble opinion.

 

[meng]

I have just been going through this hex in a different question scenario so I am not sure it is wise to say anything about it yet as I may contaminate it with my recent context, but is this a situation that in some ways is reoccurring for you? any common denominators with previous situations?

..... is my humble opinion.

Hi Sasha,

That's very sensitive of you to be aware of the potential for subjective contamination, but it's also true that your subjective experience may be closer to the bone than someone's hear-say.

Your "reoccurring" and "common denominators" comments are refreshing. It goes to where the one asking is the one responsible for the changes, which of course is how it is. If someone isn't willing to change, why would they consult a book of changes?

 

[em ching]

is this a situation that in some ways is reoccurring for you? any common denominators with previous situations?

..... is my humble opinion.

Yes, I suppose. I am probably punishing myself by letting myself go there again, and thinking that he might have changed or something, in his regard. The recurring 38's I've had - do they suggest we are too different but can be friends and should leave it at that, eventhough I have these feelings? I am interested in Grace > The Taming Power of the small. To you, subjectively, would you interpret that as saying that, appearance wise, or at least the way I am doesn't attract him like that?


Subjective interpretation is definitely what would help here.
Meng, do you mean that I am the one that should be changing, because this is a repeating issue? Darn these feelings, if only I felt platonic about him too - typical.

When he first came back into my consciousness, the reading I had was 28 > 1
Which I suppose explains the over-whelming effect he has now come to have on me again - so would that be saying that it is too much for me to handle, but if I change my attitude to it it could just be a good friendship (hex 1) ie, in my mind transform it to just that because anyhting else would break?

He's just plain not right for me is he ..

:bows:

 

[em ching]

Ah ha! Clarity : 38.2,4,6 / 24.2,4,6 (perhaps I will finally backdown and accept, it's just that feelings mask the truth sometimes, and Willowfox, hope again you don't think I've been disregarding your interpretations when you said just friends, I just had to explore the issue which I have felt deeply recently, which I needed the Yi to bring it back down to earth for me and, of course, has been accurate and insightful and referenced many angles of the relationship)

(from Hilary's translation)

Line 2
‘Letting go, returning.
Good fortune.’

Line 4
‘Walking in the centre, returning alone.’
’
Line 6
‘Deluded return, pitfall. There is calamity and blunder.

Ok.

 

[willowfox]

Firstly, I presume that you are at last trying to learn, so your answer 38.2,4,6 > 24, Hex 24 has NO lines to be read, your answer ends at the judgement.

Of course, explore away, that is how you will gain knowledge.

 

[willowfox]

Firstly, is he good for me?
50.2 > 56

What do you mean by "good"? This guy seems to be a law unto himself and that makes him difficult to pin down. I wonder if he really has feelings for anyone, even you?

Do I affect him as he does me? (perhaps it's an illusion, I'm projecting a romantic image on to him, mistaking platonic friendship for more)

22.2, 5 > 9

No, certainly not romantically, platonically yes.

Is this reawakened feeling one sided?

38.2, 4, 6 > 24

It suggests yes

 

[sasha]

Lately I have been going through things similar to yours, on many levels. And I believe I have got many like hexagrams to you... which is intriguing
Love and such... God help us all on that subject


As a non YiJingcial advice, based on my own experience - waiting for someone to change so the relationship could work again is perhaps one of the hardest and energy consuming things to do. Maybe you feel that if those things, "the things in the way" hadn't been there it would work perfectly... Because you two have something really special, something worth working for...
These things seem, to me, to be one sided (you sided). He may be driven to be as he is (you know - himself plus all this "nonconstructive" for you two on top of the real him that you see) by something so deep that he cannot see it as easy as you can. And he cannot change it that fast.sadly the fact that one can see the real light in someone one loves, underneath the things that are inhibiting them to function in some ways is, I believe Love. Which doesn't make it easier at all.

I myself saw a bit of light in the person in my world, the will to change, and that she has had a tiny revelation to what needs to be changed and thought "There we go, now it has begun and soon the things that made it all go south will be gone and we can have what I always knew we are able to. What we are entitled to" but these things take time.

This brings me to the hexagrams.
I think the 50 is about you. it seems form what you say that this person is someone who you have tried with before. This hex seems to be talking about you changing some things in you.
Maybe you are to dependent of this guy. Feeding certain parts of you that haven't been been fed since the last time.
"The fate of fire depends on wood" - maybe you need some wood. (it seems that i do)

the moving line seems to say something like that too. More you less him. perhaps.

and then there's 56. It does really seem to say that he is how he is. For now... Perhaps he wants to but for some reason he cannot hold his concentration for that long...


And to comment your words:

"He's just plain not right for me..." - i think the rest should be ...right now.

And as you say. letting go. Releasing, like a bird. It may come back, but who knows...

... Is my opinion, in subjective terms.

I may be a little sentimental these days, but a part of me is really sorry that I could not say that it'll all be fine and the light will shine and such

 

[em ching]

Firstly, I presume that you are at last trying to learn, so your answer 38.2,4,6 > 24, Hex 24 has NO lines to be read, your answer ends at the judgement.

Of course, explore away, that is how you will gain knowledge.

Yes. Well before I thought it was just the changing lines in the first hexagram that had any bearing on the judgement and the resulting hex was to be read as a whole, which is why I kind of let myself think - ooh maybe this means he will change his feelings.. or something... but then I read someone else say that the changing lines in the first and second hexagram are to be read, and then I got the above (disappointing yet probs true (this is reaity we're talking here).

What is the traditional procedure? Read moving lines in just the first hexagram?

 

[em ching]

Firstly, is he good for me?
50.2 > 56

What do you mean by "good"? This guy seems to be a law unto himself and that makes him difficult to pin down. I wonder if he really has feelings for anyone, even you?

Well I meant - would his negativity bring me down? And should I not allow myself to be vulnerable to him again because I'd get hurt? But I think I know him well enough to not allow that.. I can detach myself because he himself can be so unreal sometimes...

 

[em ching]

Sasha thanks for sharing your experience! Might I ask has it turned out positively for you - in light of the similar readings? Or is it an ongoing process/ situation?

I think the 50 is about you. it seems form what you say that this person is someone who you have tried with before. This hex seems to be talking about you changing some things in you.
Maybe you are to dependent of this guy. Feeding certain parts of you that haven't been been fed since the last time.
"The fate of fire depends on wood" - maybe you need some wood. (it seems that i do)

Do you mean changing my expectation or the way I allow him to deeply affect me? I guess he gives me some wood, but not enough to keep the fire burning

I may be a little sentimental these days, but a part of me is really sorry that I could not say that it'll all be fine and the light will shine and such

That's ok - probs for the best - this is (complex never perfect) reality after all.... always better to expect the worst so as not to be disappointed...
I guess it's true, when I force out the emotion and hope and romantic idealism - that he could not function with me as I am in my everyday world and make me happy in that way (as illuminated by hex 28 - hex 1)... Wow... sheesh...

How does it work :bows:

 

[em ching]

Wow - I asked 'what are his deepest feelings for me?' ( if any)

And received Hex 48.1, 5 The Well to 5 Waiting

Though I think it probably speaks of my feelings for him rather than his feelings for me, I guess that's all the Yi can properly access... and read this http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=1351

Very relatable with all this love talk

 

[em ching]

Oops I made a mistake (though the above reading was relevant)
My actual answer to the question was 46.1, 5 Pushing Upwards > 5 Waiting.

Does this say that I need to wait until I can push myself up and out of these thoughts ie move on? Or that something is growing with him?
Or would you say, a reading can only really illuminate your truth, your feelings, and what you must do?

Thanks

 

[em ching]

Or, of course, what you are picking up from the situation subconsciously.

 

[em ching]

Is it saying that I should (or he is) aspiring for something else?

 

[em ching]

Hello,

I don't mean to be demanding about this subject but it is all learning Would you say that 46.1, 5 Pushing Upwards > 5 Waiting suggests that I should make the effort to push out these feelings and daydreams about something that doesn't exist and it's just a matter of waiting until the idea goes out my head (and heart) again?

Thanks

Oh and are changing lines only to be read in the first hex or both? I thought it was just the first from what I've read but then I've noticed others in previous posts read the lines in the second...

Or is it that there's no right or wrong way, if it's relevant you're meant to see it?

Thanks again

:bows:

 

[sasha]

Hi there.

Well it hasn't turned out to anything yet. It is ongoing. And i am having doubts in what "positive" actually is in this situation. What i hoped for is not necessarily the same as positive in the long run...
For a while I really really wanted it to work. But with her stuff there and my reactions to them it is just not possible in a real world. Not at his point I think...

In our case it was the pent up energy of her not dealing with some deep problems she is carrying with her, that brought us to where we are today. They freak her out so she has to go into the defensive when they appear...
In combination to my responding to those. I, for example, used much time and energy to focus on them and trying to make her come over them (in my pace, not in hers) thereby losing myself in them, and maybe not giving enough of myself.

I think this might be a part of the problem (as i said it is an ongoing process)

I hope you can get a thing or two out his



"Do you mean changing my expectation or the way I allow him to deeply affect me? I guess he gives me some wood, but not enough to keep the fire burning"

I don't mean changing as in forcing yourself to feel the opposite. I don't think that works.
I believe one should search for answers to why is all this so important.
Is one attracted to people of this kind on a general basis and why?
Why is it so important to get him back and examine those arguments.



46.1, 5 Pushing Upwards > 5 Waiting. (and i also think 48 applies in it own sense)

It could be about the both of you. you pushing yourself out, growing out of the darkness and getting stronger, seeing the whole truth about this situation.
He - well facing that which is driving him to wander. But he must do this in his own pace. I don't think you can do anything about it

But it feels like you are blaming yourself for this, and you shouldn't. you know its like two like poles of a magnet. they just wont stick together and neither one of them is to blame.
(without saying that you two are total opposites)


This really is confusing and hard. Especially when we want something that hard - but it just doesn't work (at this point in time)

 

[em ching]

sasha;81711]Hi there.

And i am having doubts in what "positive" actually is in this situation. What i hoped for is not necessarily the same as positive in the long run...
For a while I really really wanted it to work. But with her stuff there and my reactions to them it is just not possible in a real world. Not at his point I think...

In our case it was the pent up energy of her not dealing with some deep problems she is carrying with her, that brought us to where we are today. They freak her out so she has to go into the defensive when they appear...
In combination to my responding to those. I, for example, used much time and energy to focus on them and trying to make her come over them (in my pace, not in hers) thereby losing myself in them, and maybe not giving enough of myself.

[/I]


Wow that's so similar to my situation. His problems are so great I feel that when I'm with him, talking to him, trying to make him see the good, perhaps in an understated way but trying nonetheless, I myself am dissolved.

'Just not possible in the real world'
Yep, just like an interpretation I had of 28 > 1 - It's too intense to function on a daily basis. He exasperates me too much, so yeah two ends of the same pole fits

It could be about the both of you. you pushing yourself out, growing out of the darkness and getting stronger, seeing the whole truth about this situation.
He - well facing that which is driving him to wander. But he must do this in his own pace. I don't think you can do anything about it

Yeah I'm very conscious that I shouldn't let him bring me down with him. Because I am feeling stronger and more positive recently. And yeah he is continuing in the same mode I just wish he could see that he's got a lot going for him if only he could stop living up to the self-destructive, care-less image he has created... I'm just sure he can pull through but maybe it's so ingrained and perhaps at the end of the day, he just prefers black

 

[em ching]

I have actually heard from him recently and felt dissapointed. I'd given, he'd mostly taken (again) and is continuing to hurt himself (and now me in the process, because of my feelings for him)

I asked Should I tell him the truth?
(Not of my feelings for him, but attempt to snap him out of it, and that I am not impressed with some of the things he says, but to encourage him to try and think positively about himself when he feels hell bent on self-harm.. I think he has no idea I care this way..

I received 26.2, 5 > 37

Does this say I should just leave him for the time being? Perhaps my words would make him worse, even more determined to be the pained, despairing, angry, selfish wonderer? Perhaps he just doesn't want to hear it, doesn't want a help up.. to some light... Or should I continue trying to support him? Drawing attention to that which he resists??

I don't know eh... I guess I just feel overwhelmed now so I should leave it.

 

[em ching]

Read this from Lise on 26. 5:
Not being nice, but being true. Not human love but superhuman devotion.

Suggesting I shoud speak my (seemingly widely different) truth to him? Even if he does hate me for it.. Though at the same time we also share a certain truth.. i don't know.. where does this connection come from

 

[em ching]

Wow I am overwhelmed and amazed by the Yi.

I read this thread in relation to 26.2, 5 > 37 http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=1953

And seeker was asking the exact same q - should I email this wounded man? (by the way, some of his problems are drug related)

:bows:

She interpreted it as yes, but at the mo, I don't know where I am on it all...

 

[rodaki]

hi there em ching . .

why not ask about what this connection stands for in your life? or what part of you gets nourished by it/what kind of nourishment you are getting . .
Obviously there is something strong going on, but what is its nature really?
and since it is about learning, why not learn sth about yourself?
(Hilary has a great post on her blog about the questions we wish to avoid . .)

26 is about taming/domesticating forceful entities (I think both lines talk about not going forth with your plan)
37 is a group of people where everyone stays at their post-he must do his job and you must do yours . . as much as sometimes we 'd like to do more than our lot it's usually not the way to get the family going . .

just my humble opinion

rodaki

 

[em ching]

Thanks Rodaki.

Ok so I asked 'What kind of nourishment am I getting?'

2.3, 5, 6 The Receptive > 53 Gradual Process

What does this say I should do here, in your opinion?

 

[rodaki]

you show me yours I'll show you mine

how about taking some time with this? try these sites
http://www.iching123.com/64_hexagrams_list_text.htm
http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/index.html
and the hex. index here . .
also the memorizing threads have great insights and discussions . .
think about the relating hexagrams of your lines, what do they show?
try to open up to your answer, be receptive and step by step you'll reach some understanding . .
writing down the commentaries that make sense also helps because it stabilizes our impression and our mind can stop running wild with questions . .

p.s.:It might take some time this one (for me too cause I have to go to sleep now and tomorrow is a full day)

hope this will help!

rodaki

 

[em ching]

I should really sleep too
Work in the morning - not doing myself any favours eh!

Thanks, I use Lise's site already (v good!) and the first link looks interesting, new takes, but I have a feeling deciphering whether masculine and feminine (which seems to have a bearing on whether the overall answer is positive or negative) will require deeper investiagation... tomorrow...

:bows:

 

[em ching]

I haven't had time to investigate yet, but just quickly was thinking perhaps it's saying it's not my place to force my 'help' on him at the mo? I need to sit back and see what he comes up with perhaps, - a gradual development... As you said about 37, perhaps I am trying to give too much when it is not appropriate..

 

[em ching]

you show me yours I'll show you mine

In what context do you say this?

Oh and do you read the changing lines in the first and the relating hexagram? Or just the first?

2. 3, 5, 6 > 53

I guess, one thing I need to do to determine whether I shoud continue, is whether he is to the Northeast, or Southwest of me...?

 

[em ching]

Hex 2, line 3

3 is a masculine position, but in hex 2 it is a feminine line..
Is this saying I should keep the forceful nature of how I feel, and what I want to say to him, hidden for the time being?

Line 5
However, here it talks of perhaps expressing yourself to the 'masculine' element, but moderately.. so remaining intimate? Well, by that I mean, be honest with my outlook on things in comparison to his?

Line 6
Contradicting message of 5 a bit.. Is it saying that pushing forward would be dangerous? Because I am being too aggresive in my approach (though I just want to be honest with him and show I care, I don't know if he appreciates it..)


It talks of submission and performing with a timely manner - but then perhaps also spreading 'virtue' ie my perspective on things?
But perhaps he'll just reject that : 'the masculine fights agains the feminine in order to quell it'

Sheesh... maybe I want to be the dragon and try and knock some sense into him... but I'm probably kidding myself he'd listen at this point


53 Gradual Development seems to speak of going ahead with the connection slowly... and progress, as a whole reading of the hex..
Although if I am to read the changing lines here, which I'm not sure I am
Line 3 talks of the man 'going on an expedition and never coming back'

Whereas lines 5 and 6 are auspicious if there's been loyalty, after a time...

Hmm, am I getting this right? Should I continue the connection, despite its difficulties for me, there is still something of worth, and I might be able to get through to him, somewhere?

 

[sasha]

Hi again

I took some time to think about all that you said.
I can tell you what I think you should do, and what I read in the hexes, but the similarities between our situations don't make it easier for me to live as I preach, so to speak. I think that sums up the hardship in the situation...

i don't think you should try "to snap him out of it" as you have a special position in his life and that could give you an opposite result...

"Not being nice, but being true. Not human love but superhuman devotion." is maybe what you should do. Be true towards yourself. It is still ok to love him a bit but don't try to marginalize his problems and make excuses...
(you know everything I tell you goes for me too...)
--------

What is your view on this thiese days?

how is it going with the - 2.3, 5, 6 The Receptive > 53 Gradual Process

 

[rodaki]

hi there!

"show me yours ad I'll show you mine": I was only referring to a view that has been around lately in this forum, namely that it is always better if the person asking posts his/her understanding of their readings first, and then it's easier for other people to jump in and offer suggestions . . Because this a nice way to learn and more fruitful than waiting for anyone else to give their opinion, because it is your life after all and because noone has all the answers or THE answer . .

sorry, still didn't have any time to really study your answer and I'm a bit dumbfounded by hex 2 in general today, so . .

did you make anything out with your readings?

rodaki