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OH NO BIG CRISIS - shaken faith...

em ching

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:eek:

I have always when constructing hexagrams used the 3 coin method, since I started 4 years ago, and I was sure that I'd read correctly that:

2 heads, 1 tail would be a yang, unbroken line (like 3 heads.)
And 2 tails, 1 head (or 3 tails), would be a yin broken line.

Only recently learnt about the moving lines,
which I thought would be 2 heads, 1 tail (yang) changing to yin.
And 2 tails, 1 head (yin) would change to yang.

However I read more closely the instructions on this site and shock horror - 2 tails 1 head would in fact be an unbroken line!!?

Which means that all this time I've been casting wrong, and every time I've had an answer that has been totally relevant, helped me through my problems and inspired my faith, it's actually been the wrong hexagram!! :confused:

I could really do with some words to appease me now because I feel quite shaken and disappointed, especially as my last thread (The 'Am I deluded' one) where the i-ching seemed to yield good advice very relevant to my situation, was actually different hexagrams all along!?

Help Please!!? :blush:
 

rosada

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Heads, tails, tails = -- -- a broken line
Heads, heads, heads = --0-- a broken change line
Tails, heads, heads = ----- a solid line
Tails, tails, tails = --x-- a solid change line.

This is the standard key used here by most folks at onlineclarity. However, many other methods are used to generate a random hexagram. It doesn't matter what method you use.
 

em ching

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Well thank you, that is the method I have been using phew!!
Feel a bit silly now for the disaster speak :blush: I can tend to jump to conclusions...

However I don't know if I've been reading the instructions on here wrong or am just plain stupid but I'm sure they say that 7 (two tails (4) plus one head (3) yields an unchanging solid line...?

Thanks :)
 

willowfox

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Heads, tails, tails = -- -- a broken line
Heads, heads, heads = --0-- a broken change line
Tails, heads, heads = ----- a solid line
Tails, tails, tails = --x-- a solid change line.

This is the standard key used here by most folks at onlineclarity. However, many other methods are used to generate a random hexagram. It doesn't matter what method you use.

Where did this come from?

My tails and heads are completely opposite yours?

3 Heads a yang change line

2 heads + a tail a yin line

2 tails + a head a yang line

3 tails a yin change line

Wilhelm's system

But then I suppose it doesn't matter if you are getting revelant answers to your queries, so em stick to what you are doing and keep the faith as the answers that I have seen you get are indeed addressing your concerns.
 

Trojina

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It doesn't matter how you value the sides of the coins, though I use same values as Wfox so i don't think there probably is one way most people use here, i don't know.

However I can't make head nor tail (couldn't resist pun :D:) )of your way Em Ching ?

If its 3 heads or 3 tails its a changing yang or a changing yin, whichever you choose, but how could it be it be 2 heads or 2 tails when that will always be a non changing line ? wouldn't it - can't see why the relief because you haven't been using the same way as Rosada ?
 

em ching

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Oh dear - Ok yes I do appreciate that I have been getting relevant and good answers...

But if it isn't the right way as I've now discovered, shouldn't I change to your method??
Hmm, confusion.. I guess it could be the chinese whisper effect? (as it is such an old philosophy)

But if Wilhem said your way, then maybe that's the intended way and I should proceed that way instead?
In which case, Rosada, if you are reading this too, do you intend to change your method of casting, or stick to what you've always done?

To me our way kinda makes more sense, because I always saw it that more tails than heads yields a yin, and vice versa, and the changing line results from an interruption, eg when it is not all tails..

Hmm, what is the right way now? do we think...
 

Trojina

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Just choose a value for heads and tails and stick to it. 3 heads or 3 tails will aways be a changing line though
 

em ching

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Oops yes your right trojan, gosh I really should learn to concentrate harder when I read! And I call myself an English student! Maybe its all the books thats done it...

Anyway yeah you're right just read Rosada's method again and no that's not exactly how I do it either!!

This has been my method:

3 Heads = Unchanging, solid line
2 Heads, 1 tail: Changing, solid line
3 Tails = Unchanging, broken line
2 tails, 1 head = Changing, broken line

Now I'm not sure where I got this from but have vague feeling it may have been from a teenaged magazine :eek:
But it makes sense to me...

Well now I'm muddled and not sure whether I should change my method - perhaps the oracle wants me too?? and it would be more authentic?
:confused::)
 

em ching

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Right I think I have sorted this crisis...

My revised method is now:

3 heads: Changing Yang line
3 tails : Changing Yin line
2 heads 1 tail: Unchanging Yang
2 tails 1 head: Unchanging Yin

Think that's the best way that works for me anyways...

Which means that the last time I asked whether this boy likes me at all (gosh this is such schoolgirl antics! :eek:
I got Inner Truth (again) changing to 19 Approach (which is a lot more positive than what I got using the other method - which was 33 retreat!)

However, as there is confusion about the method maybe the right way for me to be casting the hexagrams isn't the way I've outlined above?
And thus I don't know which one to take as the reality of the situation...

however I guess with regards to this guy it's no big deal, I'll just see what happens and be confident with it..
But I am still a bit unsure as to my method...?

Thanks a lot everyone :bows:
 

gregcat

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Pick one and stay with it.

Hi--I had the same crisis for quite a while. For years, I followed R. L. Wing and gave Heads a value of 2 and tails 3 (using a U.S. penny). Then I started reading that it should be the reverse. But then R.L. Wing when I went back and re-read, said that either way should be fine--just be consistent. But--you can also use the marble method which is unequivocal--the values are intrinsic and you'll come up with the correct lines. I find with marbles I get fewer hexagrams with moving lines, although I was told that statistically that's not the case. Fear not! Stay with what you've been using, and you'll get the answers you need.

Chad
 

em ching

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Thanks I'll do that :) may as well stick to my method as it would feel a bit wrong to do it the other way cause it would cancel out previous hexagrams that have helped me!

It's just that the answer I got to a recent question was hopeful with my usual method (Inner Truth > Approach) but a bit depressing (yet maybe the reality) with the method outlined on this site (Preponderance of the Small > Retreat)...

Anyway with all this confusion I guess it doesn't matter too much now really, we'll just see what happens... with regards to that question I am mainly heeding the advice of my original answer 'Biting Through' I think - which I read somewhere is about social skills and talking which describes my thoughts on the situation with this guy!.. hmm..

Thanks everyone :D
 

em ching

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Hi again,

I know most of you have said to use the method I'm used to, bearing in mind 3 heads/ 3 tails = changing lines, but I'm having my doubts...

It's just that I'm not sure if that's right, now that I know that the rules stated on this site are different, and with regards to my question about this guy I like who is probably quite out of my league... the answer I got when using the method on this site confirmed this doubt - Hex 62 Preponderance of the Small: 'If one overshoots the goal one cannot hit it' etc... Changing to 33 Retreat - ie I probably am wasting my time even thinking something could romantically happen..

I'm sorry to be going on about this, but the answer I got with my method - 61 Inner Truth changing to 19 Approach - inspired me with hope, and with regards to love that can often be a tad dangerous.. I mean we can be in denial for ages when it comes to matters of the heart! and I'd rather try and face the truth rather than have false expectations etc, if that's what the I-Ching is saying.. but I'm not sure what it's saying because of my method dilemma!

So I guess what I'm asking is, which method do you think I should use?
Which answer do you feel is probably telling me the truth about my current situation, and thus the method I should be using??

Thanks :)
 

rosada

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I vote you should stick with the method you intended to use before you tossed the coins.

By the way, Wilhelm does not refer to heads or tails but ascribes yin and yang and the numbers 2 and 3 to the inscribed and blank sides of Chinese coins, thus:

If all three coins are yang, the line is a 9 (--x--)
if all three are yin, it is a six. (--0--)
Two yin and one yang yield 7, (-----)
two yang and one yin yield an 8 (-- --).
-Wilhelm, pg.724.
 

em ching

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Okay thanks, I guess I'll stick to my old method...

Just to clarify - does that mean that you consider tails as Yang, and heads as Yin Rosada? Because that is basically what I'm going to have to change in my thinking when I cast from now on.. I don't know why but this whole thing has bothered me a bit too much perhaps...

Thanks :blush:

p.s. If anyone got any interpretations for 61 Inner Truth > 19 Approach?
Or I guess 62 Preponderance of the Small > 33 Retreat could be equally as appropriate, and I guess there's no way of knowing at the mo cause I won't see him for a good week or so.. anyway any thoughts would be welcome..

Maybe I should cast again when I'm ready.. :rofl:
Or just try and stop thinking about it...
 

rosada

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Yes.
Tails = yang, solid line.
Heads = yin, broken line.

Someone once pointed out that as a head has life, it could be argued to represent yang energy. However, I covered my ears and went screaming from the room so I didn't hear their whole theory.

Just pick a method and stick with it.
 

em ching

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Ha ha okay yes..
Decisiveness is needed! (I'm a Libran so it's one of my weak spots)

Yeah I can't help but think that Heads has more of a Yang feel (sorry to re-iterate), but I'll just to what feels right when the time comes to cast again... and to me when faced with more heads than tails I think I feel the line should be straight... and thus heads are Yin! Right... :rolleyes:

Thanks :)
 

hilary

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Take which side of the coin you like as yin or yang - you can always find an authority to agree. But having done so, casting three coins and getting two 'yang' sides and one 'yin' side will give you an unchanging yin line. Minority rules. This eluded me for ages (3+3+2 = 8 being just too much for my 'O' Level maths, apparently).

yang (3) + yang (3) + yang (3) = 9, changing yang
yin (2) + yin (2) + yin (2) = 6, changing yin
yang (3) + yang (3) + yin (2) = 8, unchanging yin
yin (2) + yin (2) + yang (3) = 7, unchanging yang

Perhaps this is a good moment to remind everyone of Rosada's generous offer.
 

em ching

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:( Right well I'm feeling a bit sad/ disappointed as I'm now going to have to change my method, which I can't help but think renders my previous answers null and void... ?

But I guess I'll get over it...

It's just a worry that perhaps any hexagram could be relevant in some way, but I don't want to become negative and sceptical!

Now when I cast, I'm still going to consider Yang heads, and Yin tails, but will be producing different lines/ opposite hexagrams to what I used to :eek:
as follows...

3 heads = Changing, broken line
3 tails = Changing, solid line
2 heads, 1 tail = unchanging, broken line
2 tails, 1 head = unchanging, solid line

It would be great (again) for someone to say yes that sounds right, go with that..:)?

I don't want to be a pest but something I've cherished in my life has left me with doubts, as I'm changing my approach, but I guess I could see it as a fresh start ...
 

em ching

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(Whereas if I stuck to my old method it would be:

3 heads: Changing solid line
3 tails: Changing broken line
2 heads one tails: Unchanging solid line
2 tails one heads: Unchanging broken line

:eek: ? :eek:
 

hilary

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One more try.

If 3 heads is a changing solid line, then one head (and two tails) is an unchanging solid line. Or if three heads is a changing broken line - it doesn't matter which way round you do this part - then one head (and two tails) is an unchanging broken line.

Really. Honestly. You don't have to take my word for it, you can add up the numbers and compare them with the line values in the appendix in Wilhelm.

More importantly: I think Yi will tend to respond to your style of consultation, including your way of casting. I'm not the only person to have commented on this.
 

Tony_L

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There is no "correct" way to find the hexagrams. Some people use coins, some yarrow stalks, some marbles, some computers, etc. Some people use one coin, two coins, three coins, four coins, etc. Some people convert the date and time to hexagrams. We don't even know how the designers of the Yijing actually did their consultations, though it was probably with some random method of using yarrow stalks.

The point is to pick a method you are comfortable with to randomly generate lines and use it consistently. The Yi will do the rest.

If you want to read more about various methods, there is a good article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching_divination

Take care,

Tony
 

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