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lindsay

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My name is Lindsay, and I have a commentary problem. Even today, when I read the Yi, I can?t just look at one or two commentaries, but always thirst for more. I?ve been known to consult ten or twelve commentaries at the single sitting. At one point, I was consuming so many commentaries, I was never able to actually finish a reading. It took a long time to face the truth: I am a commentary addict.

It started back when I only had a couple versions of the Yi ? probably Wilhelm and Legge ? and I had trouble understanding how the Chinese text related to my question. So, like everybody else, I looked at the commentary. But I didn?t understand that, either. I didn?t try very hard. I didn?t like using my imagination (it hurt a little), and my intuition was so rusty I couldn?t associate daylight with the sunrise. Instead, I went looking for more information.

Pretty soon I was hanging out in bookstores, searching for new I Ching books and buying commentaries by the armload. My wife, who rarely saw me in the days I was combing the bookshops, started complaining about I Ching commentaries lying everywhere around the house. Friends and relatives would visit, and raise their eyebrows and shake their heads at all my new bookcases stuffed with I Ching books. Family members expressed their concern.

So I started hiding my commentaries. I put them in the back of a closet, inside the cupboard of pots and pans, down in basement behind the hot water tank. I began doing all my readings alone at night, when everyone had gone to bed. I never finished them, but always feel asleep over an open commentary. The last straw came one day when I found my wife gently weeping over a new commentary I?d hidden in my sock drawer. Actually there were two ? she never found the other one. Anyway, I knew I needed help.

That?s when I came here. It was pretty rough at first. I wanted to talk about commentaries like Karcher and Dening, Anthony and Balkin - but people here like Hilary, LiSe, Bradford, Candid, and others only seemed to talk about symbols and myths, correspondences and metaphors in the old Chinese texts. Some of my favorite I Ching books didn?t even have the Chinese texts! I wanted to talk about these books, but they insisted on talking about actual personal experience! Jeez, was it dry.

After a while, though, I began to notice some interesting stuff about commentaries:

(1) A lot of commentaries only paraphrase the Yi itself. They?ll take an old phrase like ?good fortune? and turn it into ?This is your lucky day! Don?t worry about a thing. Everything you do will turn out roses! Whoopee!? Well, I guess I could do that myself.

(2) A lot of commentaries only paraphrase each other. For example, I used to love Richard Wilhelm and Sarah Dening and Jack Balkin, they really spoke to me. But then I started to notice that Dening mostly just translates Wilhelm?s commentary into pop-psych terms, and Balkin follows Wilhelm and Dening so closely it?s practically plagiarism in some spots. Original ideas are few and far between.

(3) Most commentaries contain a lot of stuff that isn?t in the Yi, especially advice and opinions. This would be great if it was high-quality stuff ? like Montaigne or Gracian or Emerson, for example ? but most of it is just plain old common sense. The kind of thing your parents were always dishing out when you wanted to go out on a date or learn to drive a car. Hey, I can do that. Spin out the old clichés by the yard. ?Be careful, sincere, patient, trustworthy, honest, cautious, true to yourself. Advance cautiously, but retreat carefully. Listen to good advice, but ignore other people?s opinions.? And so on.

(4) A lot of commentaries say pretty much the same thing about every hexagram. Sometimes I wonder why there are 64 of them, since they all sound the same to me in the commentaries. The reason is that each commentary writer has her/his own agenda, and it doesn?t have anything to do with the Yi at all. Well, I can do that, too. I have a few opinions of my own. Maybe you noticed?

(5) A lot of commentaries are too vague or too specific to be very helpful in an actual readings. They are canned, frozen, loaded with preservatives. One size fits all. You wouldn?t eat food like that or wear clothes like that ? why read a lot of pre-processed commentary?

I found out I can kick the commentary habit, and do just as well myself by turning the texts over like smooth stones in the palm of my mind. That?s right, I?ve actually started to think about the old Yi texts themselves. Imagine that!

I?m doing better now. My imagination has sprouted these fuzzy, flappy things ? it can?t soar yet, but it hops on the ground and sometimes glides a few feet. My intuition is getting stronger, too. The other day I made the connection between turning on the tap and seeing water shoot out of the faucet.

My name is Lindsay, and I?ve been commentary-free for eleven readings. It isn?t easy, but I just go one reading at a time.
 
C

candid

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Dear Lindsay,

First let me say that I think you are very brave to come out of the closet on this commentary addiction. You?ve overcome denial. Great! You?re on your way.

It does concern me a bit though that you?re doing this cold-turkey. Commentary withdrawal can lead to disturbing complications, such as: readings appearing and unfolding in dreams, in casual muses; and moments of sudden insight and inspiration. Worse, it can lead you down the dark path, searching for answers within yourself.

Thank you for sharing this experience with us. We are here to support and love you during this difficult trial.

Supportively yours,
Candid
 

cal val

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Lindsay...

"My intuition is getting stronger, too. The other day I made the connection between turning on the tap and seeing water shoot out of the faucet."

FOTCRAOTFLMAO! The whole post was too funny. A real knee slapper. I love you soooooo much, and I'm very happy to have you and your wonderful humor back.

Love,

Val
 
C

candid

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I agree, Val. It took me a solid half hour of laughing and chuckles before I could pretend a straight reply!
 

martin

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LOL!
biggrin.gif

Lindsay, this would be an excellent introduction for a new commentary by you.
"The Yi Made Funny" or "Laughing With Hexagrams" or ...
What do you think?
 

heylise

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Read your post 3 times, having lots of fun every time again.
And every time when I come to this beautiful little gem ..
"turning the texts over like smooth stones in the palm of my mind"
..I close my eyes. Can my mind taste something? I think so, this definitely tastes sublimely!

LiSe
 

jte

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Funny stuff!

I could see how once you get good at intuiting the answer from just the text, the commentaries start to turn into just so much verbiage. After all, it's *your* situation, *your* question, *your* specifics - commentaries are generalizations, and reading more just piles the generalizations on.

But I'm not there yet.

"Even a lame man can take steps" he said, reaching for the crutches (Wilhelm and Legge in his case).

- Jeff
 
C

candid

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Jeff, you're not alone there. I still also refer to commentaries, as triggers to ignite realization. However, more frequently I focus on just the text, plus of course personal recollection of how the reading has played out for me in the past. I've also more recently begun referring to Bradford's "section K", where each word/phrase is translated. I like that there is no interference with stories and metaphor because just the words themselves become triggers to ignite the applicable meaning: our own metaphor. Our cognitive process takes it from there. I think we sometimes give intuition too much credit for what our brains are capable of piecing together, albeit subconsciously. There?s not a cleanly cut line between the conscious and subconscious. The skill is in moving in and out of each, sewing the two until the idea emerges complete. Fishing, as it were.
 

jte

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Hey, thanks Candid - I downloaded that and looked at a few hexes - definitely good for an intuitive style of reading as well as cool in its own right. I'll have to do that when I'm stumped by a reading and have time to let it mull over in my brain.

It's also probably about as close to reading the Chinese as us English speakers can ever get.

Thanks! :)

- Jeff
 

pagan

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Hi Lindsay,
It is time you write your own IC, compiling all of these commentaries into one of your own, and then give that gift to the rest of us! Then your wife will see you doing something very constructive and productive with your obsession and it will turn around like 23 line 5.

I have been having fun doing my own IC commentary (get back, I'm not done yet) where I interpret the IC images as a western humanist psychologist would interpret symbols in a dream incorporating Jungian archetypes as a base but also astrology and numerology.

I doubt I will ever finish it or get it published, but it is such a fantastic journey for me that I can hardly get anything else done. I never realized what I had inside of me until I started doing this.
P.
 

heylise

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"I doubt I will ever finish it or get it published, but it is such a fantastic journey for me that I can hardly get anything else done. I never realized what I had inside of me until I started doing this."

This is exactly what happened to me...
and then I made that website

Looking forward to yours!!

LiSe
Yi Jing, Book of Sun and Moon
http://www.anton-heyboer.org
 

pagan

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Hi Lise,
Thanks for sharing your website. Truly an inspiration.

In my past, like Lindsay, I too had the addiction to reading all the different commentaries--I would consult at least 7 or 8 for every thing I asked. I was stuck.

But when I started writing my own IC commentary, I found that in the process I take "this one is different from that one" and INTEGRATE them. I don't think the integration process begins until you start it.

It is in the creative act of pulling all the various ideas from other minds and weaving them into a system of your own that you can truly experience the integration process. In other words, there is a jumping off point where you decide to make the material your own, and you have no idea what is going to come out of you until you take that first mysterious step. I didn't know that I know what I know until I got into the drivers seat.

Now I don't see the various commentaries like "this one is more correct than that one" but rather, they all are ingredients to how I know that particular one.
P.
 

heylise

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It seems we are very much doing the same thing. I am also 'cooking together' all different commentaries, but I also do it with the original Chinese.
I think this 'creative cooking' of many ingredients, turning them into a new substance, different from all the ones you start with, might be one of the meanings of hex.50 too.

One Chinese character can be like 6 commentaries together. Especially the hexagram names. So many different meanings, sometimes related, sometimes each others opposite, and then find a meaning which encompasses them all.. It becomes an addiction, but one with only positive side effects. I did not only create an Yi, I even created a 'me' that way.

Maybe something for Lindsay too? Exchange your enslavement for a different one, one which makes you happy. I think that is the only way for a permanent cure: permanently enslaved to something life-giving.

LiSe
 

pagan

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Hi Lise,
Have you ever looked at hexagram 3 line 6? When I read all the different commentaries on it, I get a range from "give up it is hopeless" to "it would be the greatest misfortune to give up".

So then you go to the image associated with the line: "horse and cart are parted, blood mixes with tears" sort of calls up a hopeless severence from the natural process of growth.

I used to hate it when I draw these kinds of answers from the IC.

From what I gather here, there may be millions of seeds produced but only a fraction of them will sprout and meet with success. Any gardener knows this. It seems to me that hex 3 line 6 is saying, "this seed doesn't make it" like throwing a fish you catch back into the sea because it wasn't big enough to bother with.

So this brings the whole thing back to ATTITUDE. Why the bloody tears? Blood usually means you have harmed yourself or a loved one, and tears signify painful remorse and regrets. Could we have done it differently? Perhaps yes, but not every seed can sprout, not every little sperm gets its own egg to fertilize, it just can't be. Nature makes so much more potential than can ever be actualized.

So, for me, line three is going to mean LET GO and look in another direction. Period. No bloody tears, only peace of mind in the quiet acceptance of life AS IT IS.

My bottom line here is: now I take my power back and decide how that answer from the IC is going to fit into my life grounded in the acceptance of natural law. Instead of feeling separate from my fate, and victimized by it, I am united with it.
P.
 

martin

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Makes me think. Maybe I should also start my own Yi? I do have the time for it now because I cannot work much anymore due to health problems. But I'm still healthy enough to write a few hours every day, or at least on some days.
By the way, as Pagan wrote: "Instead of feeling separate from my fate, and victimized by it, I am united with it." Yes, that's how I feel. At least on some days.
wink.gif


What withheld me till now from writing a Yi commentary or something else - apart from being too busy with other things - was the idea that perhaps nobody would be interested.
Yes, I know, I can write for myself, but, but, but ... what? I guess I want to communicate.
I need others.
Well, I'll ask the Yi, about writing in general. What do yo think, Yi?
Yi: 46.4
Omagod, I had expected something like "It would be wise to keep your big mouth shut!" but this looks like a YES. Help! Does anybody here know where mount Khi is?
happy.gif
 

RindaR

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The highest, quietest, clearest place you can reach within yourself, where energy moves so fast it is absolutely still...?

Rinda
 

martin

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That is beautiful Rinda, mount Khi as the center of my cyclone.
I cannot speak or write when I am there, though ..
 

lindsay

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Martin, if you write a commentary, I will read it. I read LiSe's commentary constantly - it is one of the very few that stands on its own two feet, free of the "spawn of Wilhelm," a breath of fresh air, an inspiration to all who would look into the Yi for themselves. I cannot encourage you enough to find Rinda's stillpoint, and write what you see for the rest of us.
 
C

candid

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Lindsay, I'm with you completely on LiSe's translation. As I understand, it is a work in progress, ever evolving. I don't agree with every hex. or change line completely, but even they add something unique to think about. On other hexagrams and lines, she nails it dead on, imo. I appreciate her fresh approach. I even suspect her Dutch/English adds a certain directness that strikes me as intimately Tao-ish.

I?ve started to write an interpretive version a few times. The problem I?ve had is that the images are so huge and flexible that the application can vary widely from reading to reading. I believe that?s what has made the Wilhelm most popular, and most copied. Images of Kings, princes and elements of nature; these are (pardon the term) archetypal, and therefore readily applicable, as the mind can search through a vast number of possibilities. Also, Wilhelm always utilizes the trigrams to explain, or at least express, the nature of each hexagram. The moving/relating parts, as it were. How many ways are there to say ?the sun rises, the sun sets??
 

martin

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LiSe is building a very beautiful cathedral. Like the old builders, with love for every detail.
The art of worship, the worship of art.
And there is plenty of time, a century is not too much for such beauty.
happy.gif
 

heylise

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So happy with Lindsay?s and Candid?s remarks! ?Fresh air?, it is the reason why I started to make it to begin with. I needed fresh air, and it is wonderful that it even works like that for others!
Well.. to be really honest, the most important reason was, that I could not make heads or tails of Wilhelm. Now I appreciate him, but back then I could not get any understanding out of it.

I got 42.6 a few days ago, the line 3.6 changes to. It was talking about a fear, of not knowing where to draw the line between what others want or need, and what I want or need myself. It was part of a question of what I wanted to achieve, and to solve this is an important issue for me.
Of 42.6 Wilhelm says: ?By neglecting this duty and helping no one, they in turn lose the furthering influence of others and soon find themselves alone.? That hit the mark very much.
So 3.6 must have some relation with that. I copied several translations and commentaries, but only what seemed relevant.

Wilhelm: Horse and wagon part. Bloody tears flow. (difficulties are for some too great, don?t get stuck)
San Shan: Riding out and then mustering again. Shedding tears like blood, flowing like this (You set out but have to come back again)
Bradford: A team of four horses arrayed alike. Tears of blood, flowing like water. (Attitude problem, too much expected, too little attended. All dressed up. Helpers avoid both him and his problem. Too full of self anyway, weeping as outlet, what he has must be more than he needs.)

My translation: Then driving a team of horses, then tears and blood keep streaming.
The character ru (then) connects the two sentences. It means ?like? or ?as if?, so I saw them as two images, then like driving horses, then like crying. Swinging from one mood to the other, carried along by them. When things are in a beginning stage, there is as yet little stability, many things are uncertain, so one moment everything seems fine, next all self-assurance disappears.
Ru: be like, measure up to, according to; in accordance with, such as; as if; like; for example, if; supposing

It clarified 42.6: if I cannot find the right way of being more helpful for others, I will be swung from one mood to the other. In 42.6 the warning is that I can get beaten by another, but here, in 3.6, it is that I make myself unhappy and insecure.

Because of the repeated ru, I thought this might come closest the meaning of 3.6: The inner core must be resistant against failure. Many things in life will not succeed, so don't depend on success, and don't be a victim of failure. The two go together, if you defeat one, you defeat both.
Now, because I got this line so clearly connected with the things I do right or wrong, I would add: bring your life in a condition which makes you calm, balanced, self-assured, because you know you do your duty.

and what Martin says, wow...
proud.gif


LiSe
 
C

candid

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LiSe,

I absolutely adore your response. No moral connotation. I've become so weary of strictly human values being seen and taught as the essence of Yi's message. It seems like a trap, a quagmire of guilt.

Your response and my thread on 35.4 speak the same language. My heart grew strong reading your thoughts.
 

pagan

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Thank you LiSe, what a treat.

And to Candid; whats wrong with using the word archetype? To me, nothing says it better.
P.
 

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