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Online Clarity 35:5 - 12

Talisoul

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Hello, new member and first time poster I hope this is not taken the wrong way by anyone. It is not intended to be offensive in any way. I was considering requesting help, via this forum, with a very important but squirrelly casting when suddenly I was flooded with doubts. "I have never used this forum before. Will the counsel be sound or just distracting? Will I place more value in it than in that of my own soul?" So I decided to do a casting asking about that instead. I am more flummoxed by that result than the original casting in question. While the initial hex seems positive, the resulting hex does not. I've always appreciated the "frame within the frame" motif in art, so why not in real life? Here goes: "What about using the online clarity forum for help with this interpretation?" 35:5 - 12 Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. I guess this is a test of some sort but I did not devise it. It just kind of fell into my lap. P.S. I haven't figured out how to separate paragraphs. Whatever I do it all comes out in one big blurb. So please forgive the unintentional "stream of consciousness" flow of the post. (Any help with that is also welcome.)
 

radiofreewill

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Hi Talisoul,

"What about using the Online Clarity forum for help with this interpretation?"
35.5 to 12 ~ There wouldn't be growth without some healthy opposition.

Daniel Young's i-Ching:

Line 5 ~ Regrets disappear. Mindless of losing or winning one moves ahead to good fortune and undoubted advantage.

It might not be comfortable, but it could very well be helpful.

Welcome to Clarity!
 

Trojina

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Hello, new member and first time poster I hope this is not taken the wrong way by anyone. It is not intended to be offensive in any way. I was considering requesting help, via this forum, with a very important but squirrelly casting when suddenly I was flooded with doubts. "I have never used this forum before. Will the counsel be sound or just distracting? Will I place more value in it than in that of my own soul?" So I decided to do a casting asking about that instead. I am more flummoxed by that result than the original casting in question. While the initial hex seems positive, the resulting hex does not. I've always appreciated the "frame within the frame" motif in art, so why not in real life? Here goes: "What about using the online clarity forum for help with this interpretation?" 35:5 - 12 Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. I guess this is a test of some sort but I did not devise it. It just kind of fell into my lap. P.S. I haven't figured out how to separate paragraphs. Whatever I do it all comes out in one big blurb. So please forgive the unintentional "stream of consciousness" flow of the post. (Any help with that is also welcome.)


First the paragraph issue is not your fault, there is a forum bug affecting newbies. Hilary is trying to sort it out but needs help pin pointing the issues so if you have time perhaps you might fill out this form so it might be resolved sooner

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/forum-issues/




Will the counsel be sound or just distracting? Will I place more value in it than in that of my own soul?" So I decided to do a casting asking about that instead. I am more flummoxed by that result than the original casting in question. While the initial hex seems positive, the resulting hex does not.


The relating hexagram 12 isn't the outcome it's the context. Will post a blog post on it.


https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2013/06/01/the-old-resulting-hexagram-conundrum/


Your answer is saying it is a time to flourish, shine out, not hide. This is 35 not 36. In line 5 there are sticky doubts and I guess that's the connection to 12 - but Yi is sayingnot to mind whatever happens.


I do tend to find this line shows up when I believe I have to operate a certain way in order to win something or to turn things in the direction I want. With this line my attitude in casting usually revolves around the idea I must carefully manipulate various variables and it's important what moves I make and so on and then this line blows all that apart. The object orientated deadness of 12 is blown away because it doesn't matter. In the larger perspective of the question it seems you have no need to worry at all about loss or gain, you can simply proceed.


I like the answer :D


Counsel from others on readings can be distracting or can be enlightening though I don't think it would cause you to lose your own sense of the reading. For one thing people respond for a short time after you post but readings, how they work and play out, last far far longer and are multi dimensional. Much much bigger than words on a page. So often I think people come back to readings they've shared and their sense of them is far more holistic, further reaching, enveloping, than they had first imagined when they posted.


I find I will often settle at the time for one understanding of my answer only to see 5 years later the full impact. I guess I think readings are way more integrated into a person's life than we even imagine. For that reason asking too many questions does get in the way because it's like not giving a person a chance to speak before rushing on with the next question.


With this reading I would also recommend you throw yourself in and answer other's posts too if you want to. it's certainly time to make an appearance.
 

Talisoul

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Thank you for the responses. This idea of interpreting the second hexagram in this context is a little new to me. If correct it certainly would dispel much confusion. I m wondering is there a historical precedent for this or is it a new insight? Thanks again
 

Trojina

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No idea about historical precedent but most people here have been seeing the relating hexagram that way for years . I have the ides Karcher sees it that way (could be wrong) and Hilary does of course and when I heard about it transformed my understanding of answers completely.


However people do vary in how they see the relating hexagram. It's a case of seeing what works for you.


I don't think there's a need to be too rigid about it. If the relating is where you are in asking it can include aspects of the future at times, the present, where you are now, how you feel about the thing you ask about. It kind of surrounds the primary. I think once you release yourself from the straightjacket of the relating hexagram meaning 'the outcome' your readings widen out becoming so much more rich and meaningful.


Indeed didn't Hilary use the example of 35>12 ? Maybe not but of course if one goes along with 35.5 doing it anyway and not minding how can that possibly 'lead to' 12, Standstill ? Makes no sense does it.
 

equinox

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Indeed didn't Hilary use the example of 35>12 ? Maybe not but of course if one goes along with 35.5 doing it anyway and not minding how can that possibly 'lead to' 12, Standstill ? Makes no sense does it.

I agree -- I believe that 35.5 wants to empower us to break through our inability to act, regardless of whether we will 'win' or 'lose'. Alone that we do it is important in order to free ourselves from the standstill indicated by hexagram 12. Therefore I also would understand it not as a resulting hexagram, but as a relating hexagram.
 

equinox

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Hello, new member and first time poster "I have never used this forum before. Will the counsel be sound or just distracting? Will I place more value in it than in that of my own soul?"

By the way, this is a very understandable thought and it is very reasonable that you consider it. Because actually the interpretations of others can unsettle indeed -- sometimes it's just not what you want to hear, or sometimes people are completely wrong with their interpretations. It is important to be aware of that.
I think it's crucial not just to be a consumer here -- but to participate, to learn to develop the ability to interpret your own I-Ching results (I don't know how far you are in it), because of course I-Ching speaks to you first and foremost, in a language you understand best. The imput of others can only be a help to gain new perspectives, but seldom it will be the whole truth. And if you participate here, you will also eventually realize whose style of interpretation helps you and which interpretations are less suitable for you as a person. We have a lot of different readers here that maintain very different approaches.

In any case, feel very welcome here! :)
 

equinox

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I would also like to say that I always find it sad when people come here in the middle of a life crisis and in a troubled state and hope for help and are even more desperate afterwards. That rarely happens, but it happens.
That's mostly because they weren't prepared to hear something they didn't want to hear. Sometimes it was also because the reader in question was insensitive. Well, that can happen, we are not machines and if you sit behind your computer, possibly at the other end of the world, you don't know who you are dealing with and what really moves this person, if you don't know them. These are the pitfalls of written communication. So it's always important as a querent to express yourself precisely and as a reader it is important to behave as responsible as possible. I think if you are aware of that and always keep in mind that no outsider can know the whole truth, it's a pretty safe place here.
 

Talisoul

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Well I apologize if I saddened you. I was just looking for another perspective. Thanks
 

equinox

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Well I apologize if I saddened you. I was just looking for another perspective. Thanks

:confused:

Which of my words leads you to think that you make me sad? I have only told of my own experiences, which have nothing to do with you at all. So there is no need to be sorry!
How ironic that I first talk about the pitfalls of written communication -- and then just such a misunderstanding happens immediately ;)
Maybe concepts should be clarified:
Querent --> the one who asks a question to the forum regarding their result
Reader --> the one who tries to interpret the I-Ching result of others.

Dear native speakers of the forum, please let me know if I have said anything misleading, English is only my second language.
 

Trojina

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:confused:

Which of my words leads you to think that you make me sad? I have only told of my own experiences, which have nothing to do with you at all. So there is no need to be sorry!
How ironic that I first talk about the pitfalls of written communication -- and then just such a misunderstanding happens immediately ;)
Maybe concepts should be clarified:
Querent --> the one who asks a question to the forum regarding their result
Reader --> the one who tries to interpret the I-Ching result of others.

Dear native speakers of the forum, please let me know if I have said anything misleading, English is only my second language.


You haven't said anything misleading and I am as baffled as you are by Talisoul's reply.

Talisoul
Well I apologize if I saddened you. I was just looking for another perspective. Thanks


She hasn't said you saddened her she said

equinox
I would also like to say that I always find it sad when people come here in the middle of a life crisis and in a troubled state and hope for help and are even more desperate afterwards. That rarely happens, but it happens.


Going back to this


Maybe concepts should be clarified:
Querent --> the one who asks a question to the forum regarding their result
Reader --> the one who tries to interpret the I-Ching result of others.


I hope to see that whole way of going on in SR smashed to bits but I'm not sure it ever can be. But we can aim to end the consumer/provider dynamic I think by not pandering to it.

This was never meant to be a place to get free readings but a place to share where everyone is a reader. That can happen just by people giving their own take on the reading to start with.


equinox
I would also like to say that I always find it sad when people come here in the middle of a life crisis and in a troubled state and hope for help and are even more desperate afterwards. That rarely happens, but it happens.
That's mostly because they weren't prepared to hear something they didn't want to hear. Sometimes it was also because the reader in question was insensitive.

I see what you're saying but remember there aren't really any 'readers' here so no one is actually obliged to be sensitive, knowledgeable or otherwise but it is of course desirable if they are.


In practise of course there is this totally unbalanced situation where querent writes one line like

'I got 22 what's it mean ?'

...and then the 'readers' do all work where in fact that 'querent' should be reading themselves.


On the plus side I guess the reader hones their skills where the consumer has only passively consumed.
 

equinox

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Thank you for your reply, Trojina.

I hope to see that whole way of going on in SR smashed to bits but I'm not sure it ever can be. But we can aim to end the consumer/provider dynamic I think by not pandering to it.

This was never meant to be a place to get free readings but a place to share where everyone is a reader. That can happen just by people giving their own take on the reading to start with.
[...]
I see what you're saying but remember there aren't really any 'readers' here so no one is actually obliged to be sensitive, knowledgeable or otherwise but it is of course desirable if they are.

Of course, you're right that we shouldn't have fixed roles here, like, one is always 'querent' and the other is always 'reader'. The roles are ideally dynamic, interchangeable and that's exactly how it should be for a lively forum exchange. I don't wish for anything else either, I should have expressed myself less misleadingly here. And as you already suggest, it is advantageous if you, while being a 'querent', contribute your part to the interpretation as a 'reader' at the same time.
 

Trojina

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I knew what you meant ;)

Also us 'readers' and we all know who the 'readers' are at any one time, don't tend to post many, if any readings of their own here so are rarely 'querents'.

I don't post my questions here, I might post them in CC if anywhere.

But if there are a bunch of readers, as there actually are in practise even though I say it shouldn't be like that, they also need support in what they do and I have noticed this with new 'readers' here a number of times. They start out full of energy and answer everyone and then they sort of 'crash' when they find they are tired, perhaps in a bad mood - and it's because IMO they have extended their energy out, invisibly, to so many people. This happens to me too and it's still hard sometimes to know when to have a 'forum holiday'. As others, and you I think, have pointed out it's better only to answer what you really want to otherwise you can get drained without even knowing it.



I think it's amazing how the 'work' in this place is shared out so that no one ever goes unanswered. Perhaps occasionally but not often. So what is happening is there is a sort of unspoken rota system.
 

equinox

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I think it's amazing how the 'work' in this place is shared out so that no one ever goes unanswered. Perhaps occasionally but not often. So what is happening is there is a sort of unspoken rota system.

Yes. I just asked the Yi how it can be that it works like that and it answered with Hex 21.4>27.
I have no thoughts about it right now since I am very tired. But maybe later. Good nite. :)
 

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