Open Space

[bamboo]

I think the only flag I'll be waving is the white oneall sounds too complicated, and I too dont see how a flag solves any of the problems....I mean if someone is gonna flame and fight, a little flag isnt gonna deter them

 

[hilary]

I don't know... if someone who wasn't involved took a moment to say 'you've derailed a thread I was really enjoying,' maybe it would get them to pause for a moment and reconsider. Or maybe it wouldn't. It was just an idea. That's what these threads are for - collecting ideas.

 

[maremaria]

In those two poll threads I have read thoughts I totally agree with and thoughts I totally disagree and thought I can find some common ideas this mine. The same , I speculate, has happen to everyone here. But what it worth to be highlighted, is the way that conversation flows and how each one of us respects the other.

Even if I wanted to say to someone “you are silly and your ideas are stupid” in a more polite way of course, I knew that there was no room for such comments. You made it clear at your first post and if you deleted such a post of mine I wouldn’t have the right to complain. If you didn’t the other person, the one I offend would defend him/her self by calling me names and s/he had all the right to do it because it was clear from the beginning that this wasn’t allowed.

When I have a question and I need help, I open I new thread. Maybe what everybody reads is “I met that man, he asked me to go on a date I asked Yi , Yi said this but I can’t understand its answer”. What I don’t find necessary to write is “ I know there are sad things happened all over the words, kids die in Africa, the climate has change , and the economy collapse but this specific moment My Big problem is whether or not is a good step to go to that date. I need your help to understand what Yi says. I ask help only from those who want to help me , not from everybody who wants something else.

I liked more the word “friends” in the title of the now called Shared reading. It makes more clear what the querent needs and which people are welcome. And it makes more obvious his/her right to say to an intruder that s/he is not welcome.
And to paraphrase Yi’s 58 “The querent comes together with friends for discussion and rehearsing” this is how I see “shared reading". This is the forum I want.

I’m really grateful because I came here and found friends to help me, to teach me, to support me. It was the first time I came across with Yi. Yi for me was nothing till then, I though it was another fortune telling tool and I’m glad I stick to it. I now see newbies, some of them really interesting to learn about it, trying to find they way, and we don’t really help them. We don’t give the space to experiment, to ask, to ask again, to experiment. Only the strongest survive. The others run away to safe them self from the bullets one throws to another. Some of them would leave anyway but someothers would stay if the could.

I’ve said many time the last few day to myself “Don’t bother Maria, its not your business” But I’m too passionate to leave it. Which is not always good but I try hard to tame it. Not a good progress as you can see

Hope I’m not offending none here and I respect the rules of this thread.

Maria

 

[hattah]

Hattah we will both need your guidance soon i imagine as there looks to be some new fangled complex 'flagging' system being set up where offenders must wear a red blob all day in public or something like that...

If me and Bamboo don't get a grasp of it we may make fatal errors like flagging the wrong person..or flagging ourselves

You will guide us won't you through these new developments won't you ?

At this point it may well be easier to sit in a circle and wave flags at each other.
certainly less confusing. Don't worry we can lead each other about in the gathering darkness of cyber space.




It seems if there are too many' buttons and whistles' the humanity of the forum might disappear.I don't have a problem with anonymous flagging as most people are not going to flag anything if they are afraid of getting flack for it.

Hilary
Are you adding a "Thank you" button? I looked at that link posted in the last post you made...and that is what I made of it. lol

 

[bamboo]

In those two poll threads I have read thoughts I totally agree with and thoughts I totally disagree and thought I can find some common ideas this mine. The same , I speculate, has happen to everyone here. But what it worth to be highlighted, is the way that conversation flows and how each one of us respects the other.

Even if I wanted to say to someone “you are silly and your ideas are stupid” in a more polite way of course, I knew that there was no room for such comments. You made it clear at your first post and if you deleted such a post of mine I wouldn’t have the right to complain. If you didn’t the other person, the one I offend would defend him/her self by calling me names and s/he had all the right to do it because it was clear from the beginning that this wasn’t allowed.

When I have a question and I need help, I open I new thread. Maybe what everybody reads is “I met that man, he asked me to go on a date I asked Yi , Yi said this but I can’t understand its answer”. What I don’t find necessary to write is “ I know there are sad things happened all over the words, kids die in Africa, the climate has change , and the economy collapse but this specific moment My Big problem is whether or not is a good step to go to that date. I need your help to understand what Yi says. I ask help only from those who want to help me , not from everybody who wants something else.

I liked more the word “friends” in the title of the now called Shared reading. It makes more clear what the querent needs and which people are welcome. And it makes more obvious his/her right to say to an intruder that s/he is not welcome.
And to paraphrase Yi’s 58 “The querent comes together with friends for discussion and rehearsing” this is how I see “shared reading". This is the forum I want.

I’m really grateful because I came here and found friends to help me, to teach me, to support me. It was the first time I came across with Yi. Yi for me was nothing till then, I though it was another fortune telling tool and I’m glad I stick to it. I now see newbies, some of them really interesting to learn about it, trying to find they way, and we don’t really help them. We don’t give the space to experiment, to ask, to ask again, to experiment. Only the strongest survive. The others run away to safe them self from the bullets one throws to another. Some of them would leave anyway but someothers would stay if the could.

I’ve said many time the last few day to myself “Don’t bother Maria, its not your business” But I’m too passionate to leave it. Which is not always good but I try hard to tame it. Not a good progress as you can see

Hope I’m not offending none here and I respect the rules of this thread.

Maria

Maria, I am glad you share your thoughts and remain passionate! I have a hard time understanding exactly what you are saying in this post......sorry, I think it is me....

I think you are saying that there needs to be continuing openness to all questions, regardless of how small or seemingly trivial. I agree with that. The space to experiment is really what shared readings is all about. The more I think about it, that seems a really good possible outcome to all this discussion..the idea that many can and hopefully will provide ideas and methods and intepretations without fear of being chastised , or fearing to step on someone else's reading. and the posters can freely ask any kind of question.

I think you are saying in the upper paragraph that one who feels attacked ought not to call the first person names or retaliate....and I guess that is the point of possibly having a flag button. Then instead of retaliating to someone who is unkind, a person can just flag the offender and carry on. I think.

 

[buzzurro]

I've never used the Open Space, but if it is a place of attack rather than assistance, I'll continue my disuse.

I was going to reply to this because I thought it was about Shared Readings, and then I realized it reads "Open Space"...


But it's not this single post, it's the whole thread: its subject is undoubtedly "Open Space", yet we are all talking about what happens in Shared Readings.
I used the Open Space section to post a silly thing about the bunnies who live in front of my office, I didn't know it was also the place where threads are moved from Shared Readings when they take the wrong path...

As for Shared Readings, I never post there, both because I don't believe I'm able (yet!) to help others with their readings and because I'm usually too shy to discuss my personal issues in a public place. Also, since I'm here to learn, I try to work on interpretation on my own, not to depend on anybody's help, you know... maybe it's also a consequence of having been the lonely one in too many occasions at school (see some previous posts from Hilary and LiSe...)

Still, almost every time I'm working on my readings I use the hexagram search feature to read how other people interpreted the same hexagrams and lines in reply to other, different questions. So I read a lot of different threads from Shared Readings. It doesn't seem to be such an ugly place.
Many times I found threads in which opposing interpretations were presented, the querent would just choose the ones that seemed to be right, and nothing wrong happened.

Ok, it's understood, that's just obvious. The point is that I'm afraid this whole discussion is somewhat of a waste of time and energy. As Meng pointed out, things can't always work well, we are all human, not perfect, we can be wrong sometimes.
(And of course what I'm saying now might well be totally wrong! )
I think we should simply accept this and move on, instead of worrying about how to make things better... complaining that Shared Readings doesn't always work well won't make it a better place, it might even do more harm than good, that's what I think...

I'm confident I managed not to attack or offend anybody here on Clarity, but I did it elsewhere on the net. When I realized I had said something terribly wrong I always apologized, either in public or in private, but it seems as if doing so wasn't enough to wash away my sense of guiltiness and shame... I kept torturing myself, sometimes for weeks and weeks, grieving over what an awful person I had proven to be, and how could I treat so badly someone who just didn't deserve it, and so on... couldn't I just accept that I'm not perfect, I can be wrong sometimes, more or less like everybody else, let go of all that negative feelings and simply try to act better from then on...?
Well, again, I could be totally wrong, but I'm afraid a somewhat similar dynamic, although in a collective form, is hidden deep behind the flow of this discussion...

 

[buzzurro]

...nevertheless I edited my signature, but... why doesn't it show...?
Edit: seems to be only visible in new posts...

 

[proserpine]

my thoughts for Hilary, and reply and uestion for Buzzurro

Buzzuro, I don't know if I followed your last statement.
Did you mean you have a feeling that this current issue and concern is also in actuality an overreaction that someone(s) has about offending/hurting someone else?

Because if so you make a good and interesting point.
I believe that there had been some difficulties and I believe, some complaints, too or Hilary wouldn't have asked us what we think nor set up the Poll, ..you know?

The question is whether we need more moderation,in the 'Open Space', less or is it best just as it is now.

I agree with *you* Buzzurro that there isn't going to be any perfect decision, or arrangment.I almost never go to the Open Space anyway.I have limited time online so I probably wouldn't go there to discuss something "offtopic" and haven't any big issues with anyone-- certainly not any bad arguments (thankfully!) and don't enjoy reading about them.

We are all human beings (well--maybe some of us are extra terrrestrials) but, we're in human form,with the included hormones, stresses and complexities.
We make mistakes, get annoyed,feel misunderstood, *are* misunderstood,we misunderstand others, get our feelings hurt want to be important, want to be heard, but want to be humble, or at least modest.and mess that up sometimes...and.... we recover and get on with it too.
My understanding of what is happening right here, is that Hilary is just thinking about all of this and trying to sort it out in a fair minded and democratic manner.

I too, feel a bit of consternation and uncomfortability with this but, I'm also aware that I may be wanting to avoid conflict or at least, overt conflict.(?)
If I say nothing,when a question or request is asked of me I'm still saying something by my refusal or silence.

If this was my website, I'd probably do something very much like Hilary is doing--which is simply asking us, who are the members here, what we think and what we want.

All we need to do is vote,in 2? polls we don't even have to discuss our thoughts.

But, I get exactly why we're to discuss this-- if it is as I think, it's that, this way, Ms.Hilary can get a real feel for where most of us are at.

So, Hilary, if you're reading:

My own feelings, thoughts and reactions over a while?
I sometimes think that I'd like to make the suggestion that group therapy be a requirement for anybody that joins *any* group, or at least some individual self awareness/psychotherapy as a prerequisite to discussing things here. ...and yes, I'm saying that tongue in cheek. .
But anyone reading gets how I think a bit now.

What I *know* however is much like Buzzurro said, Bambo said, Chris/Javalava said,many others I can't remember and i said above--we'll get through it ,people are people, not everyone will like me. we'll not all agree --you know-- all that.
I don't like to have many rules.But we do need some sort of structure.
End of long ramble-thoughts.

 

[my_key]

i don't like to have many rules.but we do need some sort of structure.

bravo prosperine

 

[hilary]

...Even if I wanted to say to someone “you are silly and your ideas are stupid” in a more polite way of course, I knew that there was no room for such comments. You made it clear at your first post and if you deleted such a post of mine I wouldn’t have the right to complain. If you didn’t the other person, the one I offend would defend him/her self by calling me names and s/he had all the right to do it because it was clear from the beginning that this wasn’t allowed.

Well, you could have said, 'Your ideas are stupid,' especially if you explained in detail how and why they were stupid. It's 'you are silly' that would have caused problems.

When I have a question and I need help, I open I new thread. Maybe what everybody reads is “I met that man, he asked me to go on a date I asked Yi , Yi said this but I can’t understand its answer”. What I don’t find necessary to write is “ I know there are sad things happened all over the words, kids die in Africa, the climate has change , and the economy collapse but this specific moment My Big problem is whether or not is a good step to go to that date. I need your help to understand what Yi says. I ask help only from those who want to help me , not from everybody who wants something else.

I liked more the word “friends” in the title of the now called Shared reading. It makes more clear what the querent needs and which people are welcome. And it makes more obvious his/her right to say to an intruder that s/he is not welcome.
And to paraphrase Yi’s 58 “The querent comes together with friends for discussion and rehearsing”this is how I see “shared reading". This is the forum I want.

I’m really grateful because I came here and found friends to help me, to teach me, to support me. It was the first time I came across with Yi. Yi for me was nothing till then, I though it was another fortune telling tool and I’m glad I stick to it. I now see newbies, some of them really interesting to learn about it, trying to find they way, and we don’t really help them. We don’t give the space to experiment, to ask, to ask again, to experiment. Only the strongest survive. The others run away to safe them self from the bullets one throws to another. Some of them would leave anyway but someothers would stay if the could.
Maria

Thank you for the positive picture of what we do need in Shared Readings. It connects up with a reading I did about the forum's highest potential, which I'll post over there.

A note... sometimes the most helpful thing to say to a newbie - or a not-so-newbie, come to that - is 'are you sure all the assumptions behind your question are right?' or 'are you sure the I Ching is the one you need to be asking about this?' or 'so, what did you change in response to your last reading?'
Not always, not unless their reading clearly implies it, and not just out of personal weariness, but sometimes.

It seems if there are too many' buttons and whistles' the humanity of the forum might disappear.I don't have a problem with anonymous flagging as most people are not going to flag anything if they are afraid of getting flack for it.

Hilary
Are you adding a "Thank you" button? I looked at that link posted in the last post you made...and that is what I made of it. lol

Yes, the last thing I want to introduce is a system that replaces people talking to one another. Except that... if there could be a system that made it easier for people to talk without shouting at each other in public, I'd like that. Providing a polite way to say 'your post is way off the rails' could be a good one.

You see anonymous flagging from the point of view of the flagger, not wanting to paint a big target on his/her back maybe, and Lise sees it from the point of view of the 'flaggee', who might be left bewildered and discouraged. Both good points of view, no obvious way to make it comfortable for both, risk of people getting into retaliatory bouts of mutual flagging... well, that would be better than a shouting match, but I think I'm going off the flagging idea, at least for now. We already have a self-moderating forum, without buttons.

Yes, I hope to add a 'thank you' button. Can't completely promise, as there is technical stuff involved, but that's the idea. I like it better than a 'no, thank you' button. (Though the same person who made the 'thank you' add-on also made a 'groan' add-on!)

Maria, I am glad you share your thoughts and remain passionate! I have a hard time understanding exactly what you are saying in this post......sorry, I think it is me....

I think you are saying that there needs to be continuing openness to all questions, regardless of how small or seemingly trivial. I agree with that. The space to experiment is really what shared readings is all about. The more I think about it, that seems a really good possible outcome to all this discussion..the idea that many can and hopefully will provide ideas and methods and intepretations without fear of being chastised , or fearing to step on someone else's reading. and the posters can freely ask any kind of question.

This is so much like my reading it's uncanny. I must post it next.

I was going to reply to this because I thought it was about Shared Readings, and then I realized it reads "Open Space"...

But it's not this single post, it's the whole thread: its subject is undoubtedly "Open Space", yet we are all talking about what happens in Shared Readings.
I used the Open Space section to post a silly thing about the bunnies who live in front of my office, I didn't know it was also the place where threads are moved from Shared Readings when they take the wrong path...

And maybe Open Space is better left for the yin-yang bunnies to roam uninterrupted. I'm thinking I could create a sub-forum of Open Space called just 'Moderation' where people could start discussions about people, and I could move any discussions that were tending to become about people.

...The point is that I'm afraid this whole discussion is somewhat of a waste of time and energy. As Meng pointed out, things can't always work well, we are all human, not perfect, we can be wrong sometimes.
(And of course what I'm saying now might well be totally wrong! )
I think we should simply accept this and move on, instead of worrying about how to make things better... complaining that Shared Readings doesn't always work well won't make it a better place, it might even do more harm than good, that's what I think...

Um, well... on the other hand, expressing what we do enjoy about it and want to see more of can't be bad, can it? I don't think much self-flagellation is really happening here.

...nevertheless I edited my signature, but... why doesn't it show...?
Edit: seems to be only visible in new posts...

Your signature appears on every post where you positively checked a 'show your signature' box. Of course if you had no signature at all when you made the post, you didn't have the option of checking the box, so no signature appears there now.

But, I get exactly why we're to discuss this-- if it is as I think, it's that, this way, Ms.Hilary can get a real feel for where most of us are at.

Exactly. And some good points of view and ideas I wouldn't have come up with on my own.

So, Hilary, if you're reading:

My own feelings, thoughts and reactions over a while?
I sometimes think that I'd like to make the suggestion that group therapy be a requirement for anybody that joins *any* group, or at least some individual self awareness/psychotherapy as a prerequisite to discussing things here. ...and yes, I'm saying that tongue in cheek. .
But anyone reading gets how I think a bit now.

What I *know* however is much like Buzzurro said, Bambo said, Chris/Javalava said,many others I can't remember and i said above--we'll get through it ,people are people, not everyone will like me. we'll not all agree --you know-- all that.
I don't like to have many rules.But we do need some sort of structure.
End of long ramble-thoughts.

Yes, I'm reading. Some more structure, that lets people/ extra-terrestrials get on with it and doesn't put an excess of rules in their way, and not fixating on some impossible perfection so much we don't have time for anything else.

 

[hilary]

Here's that reading I was talking about.

 

[maremaria]

Maria, I am glad you share your thoughts and remain passionate! I have a hard time understanding exactly what you are saying in this post......sorry, I think it is me....

And a bit because of me, lol. Take a look at my avatar. What would you expect ?

 

[hattah]

You see anonymous flagging from the point of view of the flagger, not wanting to paint a big target on his/her back maybe, and Lise sees it from the point of view of the 'flaggee', who might be left bewildered and discouraged. Both good points of view, no obvious way to make it comfortable for both, risk of people getting into retaliatory bouts of mutual flagging... well, that would be better than a shouting match, but I think I'm going off the flagging idea, at least for now. We already have a self-moderating forum, without buttons.

Yes, I hope to add a 'thank you' button. Can't completely promise, as there is technical stuff involved, but that's the idea. I like it better than a 'no, thank you' button. (Though the same person who made the 'thank you' add-on also made a 'groan' add-on!)

I think I am relieved that your putting the flagging idea aside for now. lol The report post button (now that we all know what it is) suffices.
And I see where both sides are coming from. If someone flagged my post I would want to know who it was (but not so I could "Flag You" them back.) And actually depending upon WHO had flagged my post would have a lot to do with how I felt about it. Some I would probably shrug off and some I would feel pretty badly about.

In the end if people want to rant they are going to rant.

Of the "groan" button. I suppose it could always be used for bad jokes lol

 

[Sparhawk]

​

 

[Trojina]

​

You mean when you can't put new wine in old bottles just change the label on the old bottle ?

 

[buzzurro]

Buzzuro, I don't know if I followed your last statement.
Did you mean you have a feeling that this current issue and concern is also in actuality an overreaction that someone(s) has about offending/hurting someone else?

Well, yes, that was the idea, except that different people would be overreacting for different reasons: someone might feel guilty, someone might still feel offended, someone else might be simply saddened even if they weren't directly involved... and someone else (guess who? ) might feel an unjustified sense of inadequacy questioning the way she administers the site...
But of course, provided I had any good reason to think so, this would be only one side of the coin, some sort of side effect of an otherwise healthy and constructive discussion...

Um, well... on the other hand, expressing what we do enjoy about it and want to see more of can't be bad, can it? I don't think much self-flagellation is really happening here.

That's right, the problem is that I'm only able to show one hand at a time...

I'm thinking I could create a sub-forum of Open Space called just 'Moderation' where people could start discussions about people, and I could move any discussions that were tending to become about people.

That's an interesting idea, I only doubt if Moderation could be the right title...

 

[hilary]

Actually I rather like 'Moderation' as a title - probably for all the same reasons that you have doubts .

 

[Sparhawk]

You mean when you can't put new wine in old bottles just change the label on the old bottle ?

Sigh... Good question. I'm just reaching the point of "why bother?"

 

[buzzurro]

Actually I rather like 'Moderation' as a title - probably for all the same reasons that you have doubts .

Sorry, I wanted to explain it better, but I had to make a phone call to be reminded of the details. In a forum dedicated to the fans of an Italian songwriter they opened a section called Incazzatoio, a not-so-polite neologism that could be roughly translated as Angry Ones' Corner, or maybe Raging Space. And it worked even better than expected: not only they got rid of flames in the rest of the forum, but also in the Incazzatoio section, they started to post about any reason for them to be angry, and most of the times they had nothing to do with other users of the forum. So, by creating a sub-forum dedicated to flames, they almost completely extinguished them!

Now, I guess that a title like that would not be good for Clarity, but the basic idea is that of a place where flames are not simply tolerated, but definitely allowed if not even invited! That's why I don't think Moderation would be the better choice.

I also guess you won't like the idea anyway, but you see, it's not an idea of mine, so it might well be a good one!

There should be a place where you can vent.

:bows:

 

[maremaria]

Sorry, I wanted to explain it better, but I had to make a phone call to be reminded of the details. In a forum dedicated to the fans of an Italian songwriter they opened a section called Incazzatoio, a not-so-polite neologism that could be roughly translated as Angry Ones' Corner, or maybe Raging Space. And it worked even better than expected: not only they got rid of flames in the rest of the forum, but also in the Incazzatoio section, they started to post about any reason for them to be angry, and most of the times they had nothing to do with other users of the forum. So, by creating a sub-forum dedicated to flames, they almost completely extinguished them!


:bows:

lol, Like a punching bag boxers use. Great Idea !!!

 

[hattah]

Sorry, I wanted to explain it better, but I had to make a phone call to be reminded of the details. In a forum dedicated to the fans of an Italian songwriter they opened a section called Incazzatoio, a not-so-polite neologism that could be roughly translated as Angry Ones' Corner, or maybe Raging Space. And it worked even better than expected: not only they got rid of flames in the rest of the forum, but also in the Incazzatoio section, they started to post about any reason for them to be angry, and most of the times they had nothing to do with other users of the forum. So, by creating a sub-forum dedicated to flames, they almost completely extinguished them!
:bows:

I like that idea! Works the same way as children who need to be the center of attention at whatever cost. When you tell them to "go for it" they lose interest.

Raging Space

 

[heylise]

I love a good fight. Some people can wield the sword of words in a beautiful way, including words of abuse. Martial arts movies are loved by lots of people. So flames are ok with me. Some are not, but in Open Space it is easy to skip them. And posts about rabbits, or conspiracy theories, or sleeping babies, or a funny video, they are nice things in between. Or the other way around, flames between the rabbits.

The only thing I thoroughly dislike is when a good thread, or even one single good post, gets pulled down. Sometimes it is not a really nasty remark, just "low". Other times derogatory, always quite small, not big flames or so.

So I am happy with the 'report-post' button, for those small things. When the same person gets lots of reports, then there might be a reason for telling him/her that this way of posting is not liked by many people.

 

[meng]

It's all entirely subjective, which is all I was trying to say earlier. What offends one, another might find to simply be funny, or be unaffected entirely by it.

 

[rodaki]

some people don't like the little annoyances, some people don't like the big ones . .
I think the issue here is about those cases where inflammatory remarks turn into scorching flames that threaten the free flow of ideas . . each one of us might see things differently but we all agree there can be work in peace, or stagnation (maybe 11.1 and 12.1 are very much about the beginnings of these two . .)
The more I try to imagine what would be a good solution, the more I get into too elaborate suggestions and the whole thing feels convoluted . .

I'd say that sticking with the exclamation triangle (so called 'report post' button) is a good thing but I'd suggest it appears not when we are logged in, but be right there with the 'reply' button -easy access could encourage more people to express their discontent, since we all see what annoys us but most of us won't go into logging in just to express discontent, which is good IMHO- let's encourage comments as well as the need to laconically express discomfort

How multiple complaints are to be handled rests with you Hilary, but, again IMHO, five complaints is a good number to show that things are getting out of control . .
If the next step is admonishing, informing or moving into a flame-space, that I can not say (btw wouldn't it be great if the 'flame space' was a video game? . . . 'Clarity Wars' it could be a whole epic -cool!! . . ok back to reality)

The thing is, in order for threads to flow creatively in the main forums, someone has to -occasionally- keep an eye on them and provide focus when things get out of hand . . the fan yao 59.5 of Hilary's reading also points towards that, that there should be a supporting/focusing structure that saves the day . . Lastly, if Hilary feels she needs to delegate that or not, depends on her own evaluation of things and should be respected by all. If we trust her decisions in moderating why not trust her decisions in delegating?
IMO trial and error is the best way to find what works . .

 

[Trojina]

some people don't like the little annoyances, some people don't like the big ones . .

well it would get very silly, and time consuming i think if everyone followed Lise's suggestion and pressed the report button when someone spoke in a tone they didn't like. This notion of 'dragging down' a thread is totally subjective. If someone pressed the report button because someone hadn't followed the line then we'd soon be in some kind I Ching fascist state. I think the only time to press the report button is undue aggression...even then it seems daft, why not just PM Hilary

I'd say that sticking with the exclamation triangle (so called 'report post' button) is a good thing but I'd suggest it appears not when we are logged in, but be right there with the 'reply' button -easy access could encourage more people to express their discontent, since we all see what annoys us but most of us won't go into logging in just to express discontent, which is good IMHO- let's encourage comments as well as the need to laconically express discomfort

yes agree with you here, we don't want to end up in the forum equivalent of the Stepford Wives, smiling politely 'oh what a lovely post john', 'thankyou john i like your post too' etc etc

The thing is, in order for threads to flow creatively in the main forums, someone has to -occasionally- keep an eye on them and provide focus when things get out of hand . . the fan yao 59.5 of Hilary's reading also points towards that, that there should be a supporting/focusing structure that saves the day . . Lastly, if Hilary feels she needs to delegate that or not, depends on her own evaluation of things and should be respected by all. If we trust her decisions in moderating why not trust her decisions in delegating?IMO trial and error is the best way to find what works .

I don't want anyone here to step in as a moderator, at least I'd wonder what they thought of themselves to even take the role ! I only trust Hilarys decisions in moderating because she knows whats shes doing, doesn't always rely on rules, can always see both sides and of course knows the history of Clarity, knows how things tend to play out...she could probably write a thesis on 'internet forums : interpersonal politics and dynamics in the unmoderated forum". What would someone who has been here a year, never 'flamed' (ie probably new ager ) actually know about anything here

pah !

 

[rodaki]

I don't want anyone here to step in as a moderator, at least I'd wonder what they thought of themselves to even take the role ! I only trust Hilarys decisions in moderating because she knows whats shes doing, doesn't always rely on rules, can always see both sides and of course knows the history of Clarity, knows how things tend to play out...she could probably write a thesis on 'internet forums : interpersonal politics and dynamics in the unmoderated forum". What would someone who has been here a year, never 'flamed' (ie probably new ager ) actually know about anything here

pah !

I'm not sure I know what Hilary has in mind when she talks of 'moderators' -is it about stepping in in discussions, is it about receiving the complaints and then forwarding them to her when these reach a limit? I wouldn't think that Hilary wants to create a 'police' of any sort . . btw, I agree with 'being around only one year how can one assume the role of moderator?'
but I do like the idea of 'the more the merrier' . .

 

[Trojina]

I'd say that sticking with the exclamation triangle (so called 'report post' button) is a good thing but I'd suggest it appears not when we are logged in, but be right there with the 'reply' button -easy access could encourage more people to express their discontent, since we all see what annoys us but most of us won't go into logging in just to express discontent, which is good IMHO- let's encourage comments as well as the need to laconically express discomfort


. .

actually re reading this i think i misunderstood you or rather I don't understand what you mean ? You mean you want report button to be easy access, ie alongside the reply button to encourage more people to complain ? I initially thought you meant the opposite... You can't use the reply button unless you are logged in so how can the report button be alongside the reply button...and we not be logged in..but you want people to press report button when not logged in ? That would mean any non member could use it also

although i shouldn't really be talking buttons at all...or even thinking about them lol

 

[rodaki]

oh yes, I thought that I didn't express that clear enough

my suggestion -and it was only that- was that the exclamation should be next to the reply button . . I say it only because I think very much in visual terms . . having a warning thingy ( ) next to reply could perhaps work in many ways . . could be a reminder that if I'm so upset as to write back sth inflammatory I might as well just push the exclamation and get away from danger sooner . . of course we'll have to log in to send the complaint, but if logging directs me straight to the complaint form then I'm not talking to whomever annoyed me . . have to rethink what really got me upset, maybe realize if I'm right or wrong and then proceed . .
again, this is just an idea and a not tested one at that . .

 

[hilary]

That sounds like a good train of thought to encourage - I want to shout at this person, that would derail the thread, what can I do instead...? I doubt I'll move the button, though.

About moderators - that's a discussion for later. I think step 1 is work out - with some trial and error - what kind of moderator intervention actually works well. Then once I have more clue what I'm doing, and can see whether I actually need help to keep up, I might start thinking about people to ask nicely. There are lots of people here who'd do a superb job as moderators, but I wouldn't ask them to do so until things have settled down a bit.

 

[rodaki]

whatever works best -only making suggestions here