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philosophy: digrams, ta'i ji tu, and being & relationships

CalebGrayson

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new member here and perhaps there's an extensive thread somewhere i couldn't find with search. i'm looking for feed back on some thoughts i had about the I Ching and metaphysics/process philosophy.

the t'ai ji tu (yin/yang diagram) has 4 parts:



Taijitu.jpg



i think these parts correspond to the digrams of young/old yin/yang:

young yin swirl -∞
young yang swirl +∞
old yin dot -•
old yang dot +•



i have seen two versions of correlation but prefer the 1st as can be seen later in this post:

00 — yin swirl
11 — yang swirl
01 — yin dot
10 — yang dot

00 — yin swirl
11 — yang swirl
10 — yin dot
01 — yang dot


what i've noticed and how i chose which correlation is that there is a yin/yang of being and a yin/yang of relation. for example, if we were to 'cast' a digit we would get a moment of yin/yang:

0

and adding another to it, say yang, gives us:

0 1

now this seems common enough, but then there is also a relation between the two. it would seem to me that differentiation is yang and unity/continuity is yin— and it certainly is NOT reflected in the monograms — but those could be debated and perhaps it's not relevant here as to which is which. if we do accept this take on it, then the relation of the first moment of yin to the second moment of yang is a difference and therefore the relation is yang.

0 1
.^
.1


a series could look like this:

a b c d e f g h
0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1
.^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
.1 0 1 0 1 1 1 ?


one could also see the above series in this way: if we group the series in pairs, then we can see them according to the digrams. for example,
moment 'a' is 0 and old yin because in moment 'b' it changes to 1 or yang — ending it's yin-ing.
however, in moment 'c' we have another yang so the yang of moment 'b' continues to grow and is thus growing yang. moment 'd' changing to 0 yin 'ends' the growth of the yang series making the yang in moment 'c' old yang. if we continue in this way and apply the digrams according to the fist scheme i listed above, we get:

a. b. c. d. e. f. g. h
01 11 10 00 01 10 01 1?
-• +∞ +• -∞ -• +• -• +?


the term moment here implies an unfolding in time such that the current moment of being is relationally potential until the next moment of being forms. that is, the swirls (young/growing) represent potential/wave and the dots (old/dead) represent actual/particle or actual occasions in time•space.
we don't know what the nature of a moment is — young or old — until it has been continued or ended in the next moment. i'm also applying a sense of yin/yang to young/old — a yin/yang of being and a yin/yang of relationship.

the analogy i use is the one of breathing. the length/volume of one's inhalation isn't known until one begins to exhale. as long as one inhales, the breath continues to grow, but once one exhales, then the inhalation 'dies' and becomes actualized in relation to the moment of the exhalation's beginning – who's duration is not known until the next inhalation. in this way the growing yin/yang span many moments whereas old yin/yang are moments without length.

we could also group them like this:

.a....b..c....d..e....f....g....h
(01) (11 10) (00 01) (10) (01) (1?
.-•.....+•......-•......+•...-•+•


where each actualized (particle) is a different length and the last (group) is still a wave of potential who's length is not yet known until it 'dies giving birth' to the next (particle).

we could expand this to hexagrams and make each moment a hexagram and show from hexagram to hexagram actual-potential expressions, but that is a bit more complex.

it seems to me that the I Ching's monograms, digrams, trigrams, and hexagrams are all moments of being and the changing lines are showing if they are growing or are all grown up. no changing line means the hexagram is continuing and one or more changing lines show that it is an old hexagram.

i'm quite new to the I Ching and am more interested is process metaphysics. perhaps some of the more well read members here could point me in the right direction with commentary or other resources to better situate these ideas — which i'm sure are not unique to me, but i have had difficultly in finding good information/discussion on this aspect of I Ching philosophy.
 

CalebGrayson

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extra periods^ are for formatting purposes

ironically, the 'extra' periods are in my post because this social network system (Bing?) collapses multiple spaces — which are necessary for my formatting purposes.

it does this to compress data. it's ironic because this is an example of what i'm talking about applied to data compression. growing yin/yang can be compressed into relation (old yin/yang) by using one number for being — 0/1 yin/yang — and another for duration of that being.

unfortunately here it 'costs' too much data to keep those extra spaces around and so one dot yin — or space — is the same as an infinite duration of swirly yin of being — an unknown number of spaces.
 
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pocossin

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I take the tail of the tadpole to be the young and the head to be the old. The white dot (eye) I understand as the remnant of yang in overwhelming yin and the black dot as the remnant of yin in overwhelming yang.

By "10 — yin dot" do you mean that the 0 (yin line?) is on the bottom or the top of the bigram?

There is also variation in how the pattern is turned.
 
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myanon0001

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a b c d e f g h
0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1
.^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
.1 0 1 0 1 1 1 ?

ironically, the 'extra' periods are in my post because this social network system (Bing?) collapses multiple spaces — which are necessary for my formatting purposes.

If you click Go Advanced under the "Quick Reply" edit box, a "Code" button (labeled with a # character) becomes available for displaying selected text in a monospaced font. E.g,
Code:
a b c d e f g h 
0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1
 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 ?
 

CalebGrayson

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pocossin,

i believe that interpretation is the common one, but i don't think it expresses the analog/digital, potential/actual, wave/particle quality of quantum theory. look at cymantics, for example.

the frequency of sound is gradually increased and is represented by the swirls, but the pattern it causes in the sand doesn't gradually change with the increase. it holds onto a particular pattern until as some moment it 'pops' into an entirely different pattern. this i think is a good physical example of the collapse of the wave into particle.

so if you think of the swirls as the frequency of sound vibration and the dots as the patterns, then i think this is an interesting perspective – which may not need to exclude the little bit of yin in yang and a little bit of yang in yin... which i think can literally be seen in the lines as there is a solid blank yang line in-between the two unbroken lines in a yin line and there is one broken yin line on either side of a solid yang line to demarcate it's beginning and end.

you could think of the white paper as say the color white and the lines written in black.

in this way you could even say that the 4 digrams (and 4 elements) are


white space:
black yang: —
black yin: - -
white yang: --
white yin: --


and so certainly yin is required to 'make' yang and yang is required to make yin. but notice there are always two dimension of binary. here the binary of the paper/ink and then the binary of the mark made on the paper with the ink. you can't have the paper/ink binary without a mark and once you make the mark you are engaging a second dimension of binary as you have to start you mark somewhere and stop it somewhere and unless the entire paper is inked black then you have a contrasting non-mark to as well as a contrasting white paper. and then of course the paper is demarcated from the table, etc.

and so it seems the digrams could be an expression of the Earth element as materialization or actuality where as the monograms are really an abstraction or potential or even eternal 'waiting' to manifest as we can never 'see' or sense them outside of digrammatic expression as to express them we 'need' a second monogramatic pair — solid/broken line needs paper/ink to be expressed/actualized in the material world.

"
By "10 — yin dot" do you mean that the 0 (yin line?) is on the bottom or the top of the bigram?"

Hexagram 42 益 (yì), "Augmenting"


i would write
100011 as the lines are written/cast in Chinese bottom to top and in English we right/cast left to right.
 

CalebGrayson

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thanks for Code technique!

Code:
 a    b  c    d  e    f    g    h 
(01) (11 10) (00 01) (10) (01) (1?
 -•     +•      -•    +•   -•   +• (length?)
 
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jzy369

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Galebgrayson:

I read your post a few times. I am glad to meet people who are exploring IC's "inner mechanism".

May I ask you what would be the significance if we can correlate young/old yin/yang into moment of being or growing/gorwn? Suppose your hypothesis is verified, how do you envision the metaphysical view can be improved? For example, would this model support the apparent assymetry related to the probability of more/less changing lines in the "random" coin casting?

I was venturing on a path to explore the math modeling behind IC. Then I discovered various IC augury/interpretation systems which does not use the concept of old/young yin/yang and still work quite accurately for hundreds of years, such as this book found by pocossin:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Magical-Lo...N=1468070991

I still welcome a coherent model that can correlate much better with...nature of Universe. But with the implication of m theory, string theory, and 11 dimensions yet to be digested, I am not sure what Universe view to correlate to.

From my own studies, quamtum physics seems to have relevance on why we can effectively use IC in our "reality life". This youtube video is a simple animated summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpXrbZ4bnU

Particles/wave duality exist in all scales. Various possibilities exist until we start to observe them and multiple possibilities then solidifies into particle-like "reality" My current approach centers around how mind interact with our "perceived realities", where IC can be a reflection of our believe system. The immediate benefit from such investigation is to help improve the way I structure my questions to IC and thus improving interpreations/accuracy.
 

pocossin

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I was venturing on a path to explore the math modeling behind IC.

In his I Ching Mathematics William Douglas Horden discloses patterns that arise when a hexagram is interpreted as a binary number. For example, multiplying a hexagram by 8 causes the trigrams to change places.




becomes


 

jzy369

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In his I Ching Mathematics William Douglas Horden discloses patterns that arise when a hexagram is interpreted as a binary number. For example, multiplying a hexagram by 8 causes the trigrams to change places.

pocossin:

I am going to get that book and study it. I gave up my pursuit from math angle due to the reason I mentioned earlier, now I am intrigued to pick it up again. Thank you very much for the referral.
 

myanon0001

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In his I Ching Mathematics William Douglas Horden discloses patterns that arise when a hexagram is interpreted as a binary number. For example, multiplying a hexagram by 8 causes the trigrams to change places.

Does he mention that multiplying a trigram by 9 will produce the hexagram of the same name (i.e., the hexagram formed by stacking two copies of the trigram)?

This is because (abcabc)[SUB]2[/SUB] = 32a + 16b + 8c + 4a + 2b + 1c = 36a + 18b + 9c = 9(4a + 2b + 1c) = 9(abc)[SUB]2[/SUB].
 

pocossin

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Does he mention that multiplying a trigram by 9 will produce the hexagram of the same name (i.e., the hexagram formed by stacking two copies of the trigram)?

This is because (abcabc)[SUB]2[/SUB] = 32a + 16b + 8c + 4a + 2b + 1c = 36a + 18b + 9c = 9(4a + 2b + 1c) = 9(abc)[SUB]2[/SUB].

No, he doesn't use such algebra. ☲ = 2 by Horden's conventions.

9 X 2 = 18

18 / 8 = 2 with a remainder of 2, giving


 

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