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Plum Blossom Method

yxeli

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So this afternoon I went on my usual I Ching book finding hunt, marched all over the city and eventually came to a bookshop I hadn't yet explored. I was really happy to see an Alfred Huang (which I knew about from here, and couldn't find anywhere else), but its not the one I wanted (Complete I Ching), Its 'the numerology of the I Ching' one, which is great cos it's totally different from any other book i've read on Yi, goes into detail about the trigrams which i'm just at the very beginning of understanding, so I bought it, and went for a coffee to read up, (but i bumped into a friend who insisted he'd ruin my coffee reading by informing me of the latest scandal about town, drats) So I left it and have just now spent a couple of hours with it, and I have some questions re; this 'symbol and number school'.

1:
Huang says in his intro that to really understand the I Ching, you need both methods combined. Would most of you much wiser and learned members agree?

2:
Is this the method Lofting uses?

3:
Why is 64 left out of some things? For instance, Shao Yongs Horizontal diagram

Shao%20Yong.jpg


Does 64 count as 0 in this method? Imma Confused, cos 0 is hex 2 as far as I can make out.

4:
The Plum Blossom method.
I've just tried my first plum blossom cast. In the way Huang outlines it, you use the remainder after dividing to find the trigrams. But when i devided (and its not my bad math skills, i double checked on a calculator) There was no remainder. What trigram is zero then? or how do you build the trigrams if one of the calculations results in 0?


Thanks

:bows:
Yx
 

Sparhawk

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1:
Huang says in his intro that to really understand the I Ching, you need both methods combined. Would most of you much wiser and learned members agree?

No.

2:
Is this the method Lofting uses?
No way! He uses a method of questions to pick hexagrams.

3:
Why is 64 left out of some things? For instance, Shao Yongs Horizontal diagram
Because is a binary count from 0 to 63
4:
The Plum Blossom method.
I've just tried my first plum blossom cast. In the way Huang outlines it, you use the remainder after dividing to find the trigrams. But when i devided (and its not my bad math skills, i double checked on a calculator) There was no remainder. What trigram is zero then? or how do you build the trigrams if one of the calculations results in 0?
Get this.

No, I don't use any of it.
 
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yxeli

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ha! :)

i see in the binary stuff, hex 64 isnt left out, just given different number, scusi.

On further reading, I don't like this book. Its just making my head go mental.

But i'll keep it for the trigram info.

Thanks Sparhawk! Mucho Obligado!:bows:

Yx
 

bamboo

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Just a warning...DO NOT DOWNLOAD that peach blossom software. stupidly I did because it said "free" and I figured why not - sigh- peach blossom is a method I have always been curious about. uy yuy yuy. once I installed it, i could not get the opening page off my screen and the software is not free, requires a donation or "try one of our sponsor items" for a fee. I cant even seem to uninstall it. luckily a re-start at least got it out of my face, lol. idol minds are the devil's workshop. here i am sitting here so idly on a tuesday in summer. think I will go back to playing who wants to be a millionaire with Val:D

I dont blame you, Luis. it was totally my foolishness
 

Sparhawk

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Oh wow! I'm so sorry. :( I didn't even downloaded it or tried myself. Should have known better. I took the link down.
 

dharmamom

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More questions about Plum Blossom

I am so confused about the Plum Blossom Oracle!
Different authors seem to propose different methods. Da Liu subtracts 8 to obtain the different trigrams, and 6 to obtain the moving lines, while other authors (the majority, I should add) divide by 8 and 6 respectively.
I have not used the I Ching for years but was introduced to Plum Blossom through Lillian Too's book. I have read her book is probably not the best source, but she seems to be in the same line with authors like Sherrill and Chu, Huang and others in the fact that you divide.
Da Liu is the only one who subtracts.
Could anyone in the forum please throw some light on the subject?
I have grown very fond of Plum Blossom to consult the I Ching but would like to make sure I use a reliable method.
Thank you:confused:
 

charly

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I am so confused about the Plum Blossom Oracle!
Different authors seem to propose different methods. Da Liu subtracts 8 to obtain the different trigrams, and 6 to obtain the moving lines, while other authors (the majority, I should add) divide by 8 and 6 respectively.
I have not used the I Ching for years but was introduced to Plum Blossom through Lillian Too's book. I have read her book is probably not the best source, but she seems to be in the same line with authors like Sherrill and Chu, Huang and others in the fact that you divide.
Da Liu is the only one who subtracts.
Could anyone in the forum please throw some light on the subject?
I have grown very fond of Plum Blossom to consult the I Ching but would like to make sure I use a reliable method.
Thank you:confused:
Hi, DM:

Maybe Harmen Mesker can help you:

http://i-tjingcentrum.nl/serendipity/index.php?serendipity[action]=search&serendipity[searchTerm]=interpretate

Other that, I believe, gave a modernized plum blossom was Jou Tsung Hwa:

His book:
http://es.scribd.com/doc/19231287/Tao-of-I-ChingTaoismJou-Tsung-Hwa

His biography:
http://www.internalgardens.com/biog...-internal-gardens-traditional-tai-chi-lineage

Sherrill:
http://filepost.com/files/494dm767/The_Astrology_of_I_Ching.djvu/


Abrazo,


Charly
 

dharmamom

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Thank you, peterg!

Sorry, I don't know how to use the "the following user would like to thank..." option!:bag:
 

pocossin

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Thank you, peterg!

Sorry, I don't know how to use the "the following user would like to thank..." option!:bag:

dharmamom, your thanks button will appear after you've made just a few more posts, so keep posting :)
 

dharmamom

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Thank you, pocossin!

By the way, does any of you use the plum blossom method? I have just read that if you stick to the method in which you use just the date to define the upper trigram and the date plus hour to define the lower, you'll be left with only half the choice of hexagrams. I'm not good at maths, so I can't account for that, but I use Lillian Too's method of using the date (complete with hour) to figure out the lower trigram and words which best describe your question for the upper. It seems to leave more room for choice.
Interestingly, I tried Sherrill/Chu's method (dates but according to Chinese calendar) the same day I cast the oracle with Too's method, and I got exactly the same hexagrams, but in reverse. The nuclear hexagram remained the same. One of these crazy coincidences of our I Ching which are not so coincidental...!
 

dharmamom

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P

peterg

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Hi
Water On Earth is a member here and you will find his posts in the search box.He has posted about Mei Hua YI shu from time to time.The book was planned to be written by late fall.So far rhe first half is written.

The author of the 'nifty' link says it is ten years since he wrote that page and he plans to renew it in the near future.There are lots of interesting other pages at this site.
pg
 
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pocossin

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peterg

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There are some problems with the links at '' I you we almighty I Ching'

Beware the 'mysticboard' plum blossom softwares link.I think its the same one that Bamboo warned about above.If not for the warning I probably would have downloaded myself.

The wikipedia links dont work. But if you scroll down to Water On Earths blogspot link it will take you to the thread and the links work fine there.

If you log on and click on a members name it will take you to all his posts.

pg
 

pocossin

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There are some problems with the links at '' I you we almighty I Ching'

Beware the 'mysticboard' plum blossom softwares link.I think its the same one that Bamboo warned about above.If not for the warning I probably would have downloaded myself.

The wikipedia links dont work. But if you scroll down to Water On Earths blogspot link it will take you to the thread and the links work fine there.

If you log on and click on a members name it will take you to all his posts.

pg

Alternatively, the addresses appear to be good except for a bracket in blue at the end. Copy the address, paste it in the browser, and you'll get to the correct place.
 

dharmamom

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Thanks again, Pocossin and peterg! I'm looking forward to see what water0nearth has to say about meihua lishu. The links you pasted are interesting. As to this mystic board link, I stumbled upon mystic scripts or something like that. They offer free plum blossom readings based on name and date of birth, but the drawing of the changing lines does not match the changing line they cast. For my date of birth hexagram, changing line was 1 and in the picture they had changed the sixth line. In any case, the readings are free.
Since you both don't use plum blossom, do you prefer the coin method or the yarrow stalk method?
 

pocossin

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do you prefer the coin method or the yarrow stalk method?

Coins. Anyone who would like a copy of Lorraine Wilcox's "Plum Flower Divination and Medicine", contact me. She has given permission to distribute.
 
P

peterg

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Yarrow first. Coins second. Maybe 52 ordinary playing cards (red yang black yin picture moving). I also like to explore other methods like mei hua, na jia, 6 line analysis, with a view to practical application.
Water 0n earth has a very busy schedule time being so he's not posting much. My guess is he uses his own system based on tradition rather than other peoples methods.

Pocossin, is it an ebook, paper,whats the cost ?
Bytheway is there any way to stay logged in to the forums ?

pg
 

pocossin

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Pocossin, is it an ebook, paper,whats the cost ?
Bytheway is there any way to stay logged in to the forums ?

It's a free pdf file. Just PM me an email address. If you are having trouble staying logged in, Hilary might like to know.
 
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peterg

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send the file if you got my email adress.

no trouble logging in but where's the 'stay logged in' button ?
its a bit tedious having to log in again every time i visit the forums.
i log out automatically every time i close the site.
one can stay logged in to gmail, facebook, so why not onlineclarity ?

pg
 
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dharmamom

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Why do you not like Plum Blossom?
I have used coins for years and I know every author has a different method for Plum Blossom, but I feel the readings have a broader scope for analysis. Till now, I have found Plum Blossom astoundingly accurate.
Last week I received Dr Wang Yang and Jon Sandifer's "The authentic I Ching," and they have yet another method for Plum Blossom. We have to determine the Four Pillars for the date. It's a lot of work (I HATE maths), but I was very satisfied to find that the Four Pillars I figured out for my date of birth match the results from the online ba zi sites.
Am I getting too technical in my use of the I Ching? But then, Dr Yang provides many examples and the reading really sharpens our observation of reality, like colours, directions, body parts, the people involved, the place... Sometimes I go through all this analysis and I feel the click...
What do you think?:confused:
 

pocossin

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Why do you not like Plum Blossom?

My opinion is that if a method leads to a focus on the querent it is good. If a method involving "colours, directions, body parts, the people involved, the place" helps you to focus on the querent, the method is good. In my view a method is good or bad depending on how it is used.
 

dharmamom

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Yes, Pocossin, in general I get some interesting answers from analyzing the trigrams alone, the things and situations related to a trigram in particular but also how the elements interrelate to help or hinder the situation, and also the elements from the four pillars, before passing to the hexagram comment itself. Sometimes I don't get anything clear in particular and then I flip the coins to clarify a bit or observe something in the situation that relates to the trigram, because using the time as with Plum Blossom narrows down the choice of hexagrams a bit.
I find the fact that there are so many methods to Plum Blossom overwhelming. Might all roads lead to Rome? I mean, people have used so different approaches to I Ching. Could they all be valid when it comes to trusting your answer?:duh:
 

dharmamom

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I would like to make one last note on Plum Blossom for anyone who is interested in this method, just to sum up a bit what has been said in this thread.
Appart from the sites proposed by Luis, Charly and Pocossin, I have found the information in Da Liu's book "I Ching numerology" (See Luis's post above to view it or download it) but also Dr Wang Yang's "The authentic I Ching" invaluable to work with Plum Blossom. After weeks of trying most methods, I have to confess with some shame that I found that most roads lead to Rome, after all. Shame because I hereby confirm that I'm a total dunce in maths.
If you subtract or divide per 8 or 6 to figure out the trigrams, you get the same result.
If you figure out the four-pillar chart in Dr Wang's book, it's the same as if you print out a lunar calendar from the Hong Kong Observatory and work with that date (plus the info in Da Liu's and Lillian Too's books for the hour and year).
If you count the number of letters in a word that you consider important for your question or use Lillian Too's system for the alphabet, you get the same result.
There's also some fine information in Jou Tsung Hwa's "The Tao of I Ching" for those interested in Plum Blossom.
The purists might not approve, but I personally find Plum Blossom adds a new take on one's consultations, so I leave this information available for anyone who wants to try.
And since I recognize the method has its limitations and warts, I also leave an interesting article from a detractor: www.guiculture.com/fs09meihua1.htm
 
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meng

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Might all roads lead to Rome? I mean, people have used so different approaches to I Ching.

I think you have the perfect name/handle to best answer your question. If you had, say, a few billion children, would you expect them all to approach you in the same way? Wouldn't you recognize and acknowledge each one individually, perhaps primitively more by smell than by name. All roads lead back to mom, to earth itself. Only rarely does Yi encourage our feet to leave the ground except to walk.
 

dharmamom

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You're right, peter, I had forgotten this site. Her English is not good and some of the material is clumsy, but I find her exposition of the relation of the elements of ti and yong very clear. This list alone is very useful.
 

globalex

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Lorraine Wilcox's e-book

Coins. Anyone who would like a copy of Lorraine Wilcox's "Plum Flower Divination and Medicine", contact me. She has given permission to distribute.

Hi Pocossin,
I'm a newbie in this I Ching universe and I just joined this website to learn a bit more on this Plum Blossom Divination. I appreciate if you can forward me an e-copy of Lorraine Wilcox's Plum Flower Divination and Medicine. Thanks.
Cheers
globalex
PS: Do you need my email address to forward it or this website will sent it directly to my email account?
 

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