Plum Blossom Topics

[pocossin]

http://www.arttechnology.com/TaiChi/TaiChiHome.htm
Da Liu in action

 

[pocossin]

Rationale of Plum Blossom Methods

There are two types of Plum Blossom methods: Early Heaven (Xian Tian) and Later Heaven (Hou Tian). In the Early Heaven methods, the initial hexagram is determined by number calculations. The numbers of the trigrams are taken from the Early Heaven (Fu Xi's) circle of the trigrams. These calculations may be based on time, a countable feature of the situation, or a mixture of the two, thus three possibilities. Da Liu gives three Early Heaven formulas:

I.
countable feature
time

The outer (upper) trigram is based on a countable feature of the situation, and the inner (lower) trigram on date and hour.

II.
countable feature
countable feature

The trigram that corresponds to the smaller number is the outer trigram.

III.

time
time

The outer trigram is determined by day + month + year. The inner trigram by day + month + year + hour.

In Plum Blossom, moving line, resulting hexagram, nuclear hexagram, and Yi Jing text of the moving line may or may not be considered depending on circumstances. Neither Da Liu nor Jou describes the seasonal influence, which Wilcox develops in detail.

In the Later Heaven method, the initial hexagram is determined by trigram correspondences. For example, a father and son conferred with Da liu:

☰ father
☶ son

In the Later Heaven method, the numbers of the trigrams are determined when the Later Heaven arrangement (King Wen's circle of the trigrams) is imposed upon the outer numbers of the Luo Shu:

4 9 2
3 5 7
8 1 6

Thus, ☵ = 1, ☶ = 8, ☳ = 3, and so on. Note that no trigram is assigned to 5 and that ☲ = 9. To calculate a moving line, the Later Heaven numbers of the trigrams are added and divided by 6. The remainder gives the moving line. For the above father-son hexagram, ☰ = 6, ☶ = 8. Their sum is 14. When divided by 6, the remainder is 2, the moving line (Da Liu, pp.54-5).

With this abundance of methods, which to use? Da Liu (p.37) says that the first Early Heaven method is most suitable for general predictions; the second for predictions that are completely unknown -- like what will be in a package or the location of a lost object -- or long-range prediction. The third Early Heaven method, he says, should be used for "spontaneous divinations -- that is, for predictions that are stimulated within the diviner by a strong feeling or a personal curiosity about something observed." Da Liu doesn't characterize the improvisational, extemporaneous, and jazzy Later Heaven method, but it appears to be best when a quick response is wanted and the diviner is imaginative.

 

[pocossin]

Differences in Shao Yong Stories

Who's telling them as the Mei Hua Yi Shu tells them? For example, The old man with a sad face, Liu, p.50-1 and Jou, p. 95-8. Both Liu and Jou construct the initial hexagram by object and direction.

☰ old man
☴ southeast

Then Liu adds the Later Heaven trigram numbers (6 + 4), divides by six (subtracts 6) and the remainder is 4. While Jou, on the other hand, adds the Earlier Heaven trigram numbers (1 + 5) and the hour (4), divides by 6, and the remainder is again 4. Jou has adjusted the time to the 24-hour clock but never introduces Later Heaven trigram numbers. The explanation of the interpretation differs for both, and were I to explain it, I too would do it differently .

 

[pocossin]

Da Liu's Book in pdf

http://atitlanweb.com/stuff/content/I Ching/I Ching - Numerology.pdf

If you are at all interested in Plum Blossom, you should download this book immediately. I have no idea how long this link will remain valid and do not know who controls it, but at this moment it is still valid. There are advantages to owning the physical book, although its pages are now darkening, which to my mind adds to its Plum Blossom quality.

 

[pocossin]

The Seeds of the Future

A casting (hexagrams and text) is not informative but evocative. There is information in it, but its function is to aid the diviner's response to predictive features of the situation, the seeds of the future.

ji 幾
'Incipience' – The point at which a change germinates. In Wilhelm-Baynes this is knowing 'the seeds'. In the Great Treatise (Dazhuan) it is said that 'the Yi is what enabled the sages to penetrate extremely deeply and thoroughly examine the incipience of things'.
http://www.biroco.com/yijing/glossary.htm

In the story of the battling sparrows (Jou, 104; Liu, 33), the fight of the sparrows symbolically parallels the coming fight of the girl who climbs the plum tree to steal flowers (Liu) or fruit (Jou) and the gardener. The fight of the sparrows is the seeds of the future and the basis of the divination.

In the story of the old man with a sad face, the mysteriously sad face is the seeds of the future.

In the story of the the young man with a happy face, the mysteriously happy face is the seeds of the future.

In the story of the neighbor who wanted to borrow an axe, the arrival of the neighbor on New Year's Eve, I hesitate to call this a mystery, is the seeds of the future. Liu explains -- whether in the original Mei Hua Yi Shu or not -- that it is traditional to build a fire on New Year's Eve. New Year, new fire, so seasonal influence is important here. I suspect that the neighbor was in the habit of borrowing and that his arrival was no great surprise to Shao.

By the way, 'the seeds of the future' is the answer to the philosophical puzzle, What is the object of knowledge in divination? In accord with popular prejudice, since divination is imagined to have no object of knowledge, it is also imagined to be meaningless. The justification for this prejudice is that many inept diviners look at the scope and imagine they are seeing the specimen.

 

[pocossin]

Non Plum Blossom Examples of the Seeds of the Future

Is it true that you can tell a woman's relationship with her husband by looking in her refrigerator?

How come everyone in the world heard me make this statement? But all said in jest -- or parable -- has fate, so here goes . . .

I'm a firm believer in a principle called _carryover_. In plainer words, the personal characteristics you exhibit in any situation are essentially the same ones you show in other, totally unrelated situations. A person who's sloppy in appearance will generally be sloppy in speech, promise-keeping, and gardening. If you are an aggressive competitor on the tennis court, you generally will be that way in PTA meetings, fruit canning, and style of dress.

Your refrigerator is probably the most personal of all your furniture and appliances -- behind its door (and often in front of it!) is a composite picture of your organization, judgment, decisions, hopes, failures, and successes. It's not open to the world (Remember how upset you are when anyone outside the family looks in your fridge?) but you can tell a lot by taking a hard look in it.

Are you the type who lets the refrigerator go and go and go, cramming in more amid more and finally going to two-story stacking, ignoring spills and vegetables that have shrivelled beyond identification -- then suddenly in a dedicated attack of repentance you whip into it, leaving it gleaming and immaculate? You are probably also letting marriage or living strains and irritation go, go, go, until they are intolerable -- then in a big weeping, soul-cleansing trauma, you sweep your cowering family into a confrontation, followed by a tearful kissy-pie all-is-well. But then you start stacking the fridge again, putting lids on the problems that you'd rather delay making decisions on. You do this until the fridge (or family situation) stinks and is ready to explode -- and then you dive in again and make peace, love, apologies, promises, etc.

Those who keep their refrigerators bare (I mean not a morsel to snack on -- not a saucer of cold peaches or a peeled boiled egg in there) often have empty, cold relationships with family and associates.

The person who can't manage to put a lid on a smelly container in the refrigerator probably can't keep the lid on a neighborhood secret.

If you have disguised or hidden "no-nos" (fattening chocolates) stashed in secret places in your fridge, you'll probably have other hidden things (gifts, rash purchases, damaged things, spare money) the rest of the family doesn't know about.

If a fridge is dominated by processed foodstuffs, it generally signifies the time the family spends together is limited.

If the fridge is dominated by the husband's "habit" residue (liquor, fish bait, film), that generally means the woman of the house is far from liberated (equal).

Before any of you gentlemen and children sit back and feel too smug, the same diagnoses can be made from a man's toolbox, a kid's locker at school, scout knapsacks, etc.

-- From Don Aslett's book Do I Dust or Vacuum First.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Aslett

Divination by key rings:

I once had a friend who did readings at psychic fairs. She would tell people about themselves based on what they had on their key rings. If their keys were all facing the same direction (orderly life) or strung on every which way (confused life) and then she would note what sort of charm they carried. It was uncanny how significant the charm turned out to be, even to the untrained eye. For example I remember one lady who was morbidly obese who had more charm's than keys. Another who's issue was a chronic lack of funds had a tiny coin purse for her charm, but she never put any money in it, thus her archetypal purse was always empty!

-- from Rosada.

 

[1eleven]

Here's a .99 cent Kindle book covering Image Numerology / Plum Blossom. It's not without it's errors, due to editing and translation, but it's worth a look.

http://www.amazon.com/Jing-Image-Nu...?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1381588099&sr=1-1

 

[globalex]

Hi Pocossin and Others,

Hope everything's fine with you all.

Regarding Shao Yung's methodology, I have some questions.
Suppose I witness something weird or strange today - 15 Nov 2013 (Gregorian) at 2 pm - for example.
I saw a swallow on a pipe singing to me directly, say.
Using Shao Yung's methodology, the upper trigram will be ☳ Chen or Thunder (Wood). One of the attributes of Chen is swallow.
Query:
(1) Will the trigram still remain the same (ie Chen) if the swallow is completely red/blue/green in colour?
(2) Will the trigram still remain the same (ie Chen) if there are 3 swallows instead of one?
(3) Do you know where I could find a comprehensive list of attributes for all the 8 trigrams? I could not find the trigram for frogs, toads, sharks, cars, planes, etc

Regards

 

[pocossin]

> (1) Will the trigram still remain the same (ie Chen) if the swallow is completely red/blue/green in colour?

I have had and continue to have friendship with swallows. (The swallows here are probably different from the swallows you see.) My lungs were damaged at birth, and the doctor recommended that I sleep in an unheated open room. The windows had no screens, and the chimney was left open. Some of my earliest memories are of waking up and finding swallows circling the room. Even today -- 68 years later -- I continue to enjoy swallow friends. Because of personal experience, I would associate swallows with Joy (Dui), and I think you will be more engaged in Plum Blossom if you make your trigram assignments on the basis of personal experience. How does the object and its attributes make you feel? That will give you the trigram. I would consider color if it were a striking features. For example, if the swallow were completely red, I probably would use Qian.

> (2) Will the trigram still remain the same (ie Chen) if there are 3 swallows instead of one?

The 3 could be used to find the moving line.

> (3) Do you know where I could find a comprehensive list of attributes for all the 8 trigrams? I could not find the trigram for frogs, toads, sharks, cars, planes, etc

There may not be such a list.

frogs -- Dui (marsh and swamp)
toads -- Li (dryness) or Xun (shape)
sharks -- Kan (danger)
cars -- Xun (communication) or Kan (like wheels and axle as in hexagram 7)
planes -- Xun (birds)

 

[globalex]

Hi pocossin,
Thank you for your answer.
Now I begin to understand more of this Plum Blossom methodology. It's not easy but it's interesting, exciting and eye-opening. There are so much to learn, asking questions, feeling, figuring it out, trial and error. But it's fun.
Cheers
globalex

 

[globalex]

Hi pocossin,

Interpreting the trigrams using Shao Yung’s methodology is hard and confusing. Especially more so when you have exactly the same hexagrams and moving lines from 2 situations.

Let me give you an example.

(1) On Friday 15 November 2013 (Gregorian), I was walking towards my car when on the foot path, a tiny black frog was hopping towards me then it suddenly jumped into the shade of a small tree on my left. It was 1.15 pm in the afternoon.

(Gregorian) 15 November 2013 = (Lunar) 13 October 2013
Using the Celestial Stem, year 2013 is 1 for the Southern Hemisphere
For the Horary Branch Hours, 1.15 pm is between 1 pm & 3 pm, which gives the figure 8
Therefore,
Upper trigram = frog = Marsh/Lake = ☱
Lower trigram = (13 + 10 + 1 + 8)/8 = 32/8 = 4 r 0
Moving Line = 32/6 = 5 r 2

H45 N53 C47
☱ ☴ ☱
☷ ☶ ☵
Original (H45) Nuclear (N53) Changed (C47)
-Moving Line 2

(2) On Sunday 17 November 2013 (Gregorian), I went to a 10-Pin Bowling meet-up at 9 am in the morning. The game lasted 2 hours. After that, the group went to a nearby restaurant for lunch while I headed home.

(Gregorian) 17 November 2013 = (Lunar) 15 October 2013
Using the Celestial Stem, year 2013 is 1 for the Southern Hemisphere
For the Horary Branch Hours, 9 am is between 9 am & 11 am, which gives the figure 6
Therefore,
Upper trigram = (15 + 10 + 1)/8 = 26/8 = 3 r 2
Lower trigram = (15 + 10 + 1 + 6)/8 = 32/8 = 4 r 0
Moving Line = 32/6 = 5 r 2

H45 N53 C47
☱ ☴ ☱
☷ ☶ ☵
Original (H45) Nuclear (N53) Changed (C47)
-Moving Line 2

Questions:
(a) How does one interpret the meaning of the resulting hexagrams and trigrams – Shao Yung’s style?
(b) Does it mean that the meaning is the SAME for the two situations? If no, what are the similarities and differences? (Note: in both situations, all the hexagrams are the same including the moving line)
(c) If there are not much of a difference in the meanings, then how does one use the I-Ching to differentiate them? (I reckon there are more than meets the eye. I could not find anything about it either in Da Liu's or Jou's book).

Regards
globalex

 

[1eleven]

Hi Pocossin and Others,

Hope everything's fine with you all.

Regarding Shao Yung's methodology, I have some questions.
Suppose I witness something weird or strange today - 15 Nov 2013 (Gregorian) at 2 pm - for example.
I saw a swallow on a pipe singing to me directly, say.
Using Shao Yung's methodology, the upper trigram will be ☳ Chen or Thunder (Wood). One of the attributes of Chen is swallow.
Query:
(1) Will the trigram still remain the same (ie Chen) if the swallow is completely red/blue/green in colour?
(2) Will the trigram still remain the same (ie Chen) if there are 3 swallows instead of one?
(3) Do you know where I could find a comprehensive list of attributes for all the 8 trigrams? I could not find the trigram for frogs, toads, sharks, cars, planes, etc

Regards

I came across this list on the 5arts site and since I've never been able to log in or post to that site I figured I'd post it here:

Some of this information can also be found in this book Yixue Da Cidian (易学大辞典).


乾卦：
(Chien Gua)
___
___
___


Weather: Heaven, Ice, Snow

Geographical: Northwest direction, capital, highly regarded place

Human: Man, Father, Adult, Elderly, Famous people

Human relationship: Manly and brave, decisive, active, not quiet

Body part: head, bone, lungs

Time: Autumn, lunar 9th - 10th mth.

Animal: Horse, Swan, Lion, Elephant

Non-living thing: gold, jade, metal, mirror

House: Public toilet, Attic, building

Home: divine during autumn good, summer accident, winter lonely and spring good luck

Marriage: prestigious, reputable families, divine during autumn successful, divine during winter and summer unsuccessful

Food: bony, liver and lungs, dried food

Fame: famous, law enforcement role

Plan and strategy: successful, mobility brings fortune, divine during summer not good, divine during winter will have lots of strategies

Transaction: good for gold, jade, precious jewellery. divine during summer not good

Wealth: successful. wealth from civil sector. divine during autumn big success, divine during summer lost money, winter no wealth

Travel: good for travel. NW direction. not in summer.

Meeting: good to meet important person.

Illness: relating to head, veins and bones related. divine during autumn not good

Legal case: good for engaging in law suit, noblemen assistance. divine during autumn successful, summer no case.

Burial: face NW direction. SW Chien mountain, Heaven dwelling. high grounds, divine during autumn good but during summer bad.

Direction: Northwest

Colour: Bright red, dark black

Name: someone whose name as gold meanings or chinese character with gold.

Number: one, four, nine

Taste: Hot, spicy.




坤卦：
(Kun Gua)
_ _
_ _
_ _

Weather: cloudy, hazy

Geographical: farm, countryside, flat grounds, SouthWest direction

Human: Mother, Step-mother, farmer, elder woman

Relationship: Stingy, weak, vile character

Body parts: belly, abdomen, flesh, stomach, gastric

Time: eighth, fifth and tenth month

Non-living item: squarish, soft, cotton wool, clay

Animal: buffalo

House: SW direction, small shops, low-rise

Home: Stable, Yin qi, divine in spring not good

Food: beef, land-animals, cereals, tuber crops

Marriage: good for marriage. family deals with property and tax, in countryside, widow's home. divine in spring not good

Birth: smooth delivery, divine in spring bad for mother.

Fame: successful. instructor or teacher. job relating to land. divine in spring not good

Transaction: good for transaction relating to land. crops.

Wealth: good. wealth deriving from land related trades.

Strategy: good. strategies arising from woman, quietness

Travel: good. SW direction. towards the countryside by land. not good in spring

Meeting: good. for meeeting rural people. meeting relatives and friends. not good to meet during spring

Illness: illness relating to stomach, gastric. stop eating. digestive problem

Legal: with reasoning. obtain support and resolve legal case

Burial: facing SW. flat ground. near to countryside.

Name: Chinese surname with Earth related character.

Number: 8, 5 and 10

Direction: SouthWest

Taste: sweet

Colour: Yellow and black




震卦：
(Zhen Gua)
_ _
_ _
___


Weather: Thunder

Geographical: East. Wood. Busy town. forest. place where trees and grass grows well

Body Parts: Legs, Liver, Hair. sounds

Human: Eldest Son.

Relationship: proactive. anger. false alarm. more mobility less settled

Time: spring time second mth.

non-living thing: wooden things. musical instruments made of wood.

Animals: dragon, snake, insects

House: East facing house. living within the woods. attic

Home: lots of false alarm in the home. divine in spring and winter good. not good during autumn

Food: birds or chicken. animals found in the woods. fresh meat. vegetables

Marriage: ok. successful. reputable families. good for marriages relating to eldest son. not good in autumn

Wealth: wealth relating to wood and forestry. wealth from mobility.

Fame: Good. suitable for positions that commands authority and gives instructions to others. jobs relating to wood.

Birth: false alarm. foetus keeps moving and not settled. first child will be son.

Illness: Leg injuries. illness relating to liver. frightful and unsettled

Strategy: good. strategies that requires lots of movement. not good to divine during autumn

Transaction: successful. not in autumn. trades relating to wood

Legal: good for court case though there is false alarm. favour keeps changing from side to side.

Meeting: good. to meet famous and reputable people.

Travel: good. travel towards East. divine during autumn not good with false alarm'

Burial: Facing East. within the forest/woods

Name: Chinese surname with Wood related characters

Number: 4, 8, 3

Direction: East

Taste: Sweet, sour

Colour: Dark green, green




巽卦：
(Xun Gua)
___
___
_ _


Weather: Wind

Geographical: Southeast direction. garden, grass

Human: Eldest Daughter. elegant person. widow

Relationship: soft and gentle, unsettled. dancing. profits 3-folds. unresolved whether to move forward or backward.

Body Parts: Upper Arm. Thigh

Time: between spring and summer.

non-living things: rope, wood. straight and long things. feather. fan

Animals: Chicken. birds.

House: SE facing. High building. tower. living in the woods

Home: stable and safe. divine in spring good. autumn bad

Food: chicken. vegetables and fruits

Marriage: successful. good for eldest daughter. autumn divination not good

Birth: Good. first child daugther. divine in autumn miscarriage.

Fame: good. for female positions relating to flying and power. jobs relating to tea, fruits, wood.

Wealth: triple wealth. from the woods.

Transaction: successful.

Strategy: good.

Travel: good. towards SE.

Meeting: good. meeting with elegant woman

Illness: illness relating to upper arm and thigh. intestine illness. stroke.

Name: Chinese surname with grass or wood characters.

Legal: to settle amicably

Burial: facing SE. within woods. divine in autumn not good.

Number: 5, 3, 8

Direction: SouthEast

Taste: Sour

Colour: green, white




坎卦：
(Kan Gua)
_ _
___
_ _


Weather: Rain, snow, water

Geographical: North. wells. wet grounds.

Human: Middle-aged man. Middle son. sailor, thief, bandits

Relationship: full of danger and pitfalls. appears gentle but has great ability within. flaoting around.

Body parts: Ear, blood, kidney

Time: Winter. 11th mth

Non-living things: items containing water.

Animals: Pig, fish, sea creatures. Wolf

House: North facing. Near to water.

Food: Pork. wine. cold dish. soup. seafood. bony item eg. fish.

Home: Unrest. prevent robbery

Marriage: good for middle-aged man, middle son. Not good in Chen, Xu, Chou & Wei Mths.

Birth: Difficult labour. good for second child. male. Not good in Chen, Xu, Chou & Wei Mths.

Fame: Difficult. disaster. Trades in relation to Fish, salt, river and by boat. wine and vinegar

Wealth: prevent loss and robbery. suitable for wealth deriving from water. Trades in relation to Fish, salt, wine and vinegar.

Transaction: Not good. guard against traps. good for water related transactions.

Strategy: Not good. Good to divine in Autumn.

Travel: Not good for travel too far away. Good for travel by water. But guard against theft and robbery.

Meeting: Difficult to meet. but can meet people with Chinese surname with water related words in the character.

Illness: Ear problem. Heart problem, Kidney illness. blood related illnesses

Legal: Danger. Likely to fail

Burial: Facing North. Near to water.

Name: Chinese surname with water related characters

Number: 1, 6

Direction: North

Taste: salty, sour

Colour: Black




离卦：
(Li Gua)
___
_ _
___

Weather: Sun, Lightning

Geographical: South. Hot and dry place.

Human: Middle aged woman. Middle daughter.

Relationship: Cultural. Intelligent and learned. good-looking

Body Parts: Eyes. Heart.

Time: Summer 5th mth.

Non-living things: Fire, books. dry items.

Animals: Tortoise. Crab. Frog

House: South facing. Bright house.

Home: Stable and quiet. divine in winter not good. fire hazard.

Food: Fried, dry and heaty food

Marriage: Not good. But good for middle aged woman or middle daughter. divine in summer good, divine in winter not good.

Birth: Good. middle daughter. divine in winter will have loss.

Fame: Successful. Office work. Job relating to fire

WewalthL seek for wealth in the South. Literary wealth. divine in winter not good

Transaction: Good. transactions relating to books and knowledge

Travel: Good. towards South. travel for the purpose of books, document and study. divine in winter not good. not suitable for travel by boat.

Meeting: Autumn meeting with scholarly persons.

Legal: justify the case with good explanation.

Illness: Eye problem. Heart problem. chest problem

Burial: Facing South. divine during summer will have scholarly descendants.

Name: Chinese surname with scholar-related characters

Number: 3, 2, 7

Direction: South

Colour: Red, Purple

Taste: Bitter




艮卦：
(Gen Gua)
___
_ _
_ _

Weather: Cloud, Haze

Geographical: Mountains, Northeast direction

Human: Young man. Youngest Son. people with no worries or nothing much to do.

Relationship: Quiet. Undecisive.

Body Parts: Fingers, Bones, Nose. Back

Time: Between Winter and Spring.

Non-living things: Stones. yellow items. earthly items.

Animals: Tiger, dog. rat.

House: Stable. disruptions to everything. family members not peaceful. divine during spring not good.

Home: Northeast direction. in the mountains

Food: food found on the land. all animals. tuber.

Marriage: Unsuccessful. delayed. good for young man marriage.

Fame: Difficult. jobs relating to the ground or mountains

Birth: Difficult labour.

Transaction: Difficult to succeed. Transactions relating to mountains and land.

Travel: Not good for travel too far away. travel to nearby by land.

Meeting: Not good. blockages.

Illness: Illnesses relating to fingers.

Legal: blockage. difficult to resolve.

Burial: Northeast facing. within the mountains

Number: 5, 7, 10

Direction: Northeast

Colour: Yellow

Taste: Sweet




兑卦：
(Dui Gua)
_ _
___
___

Weather: Rain

Geographical: pool, pond. west facing

Human: Young woman. Youngest daughter. mistress. prostitute. witch. maid

Relationship: Happy. Gossips.

Body Parts: Tongue. Throat. Lungs.

Time: Autumn 8th mth

Non-living things: Metal objects.

Animals: Creatures living in the pond.

House: West facing. near to pond.

Home: Unrest. beware of gossips. divine in autumn good. but not in summer.

Food: Mutton. Spicy and sour food.

Marriage: Unsuccessful. divine in autumn good. suitable for young woman.

Birth: Not good. may lost baby or give birth to a girl.

Fame: Not good. may have loss becuase of fame.

Wealth: no gain but with loss. wealth relating to mouth. divine during autumn good but not summer.

Travel: Not good to travel too far away or will have loss.

Transaction: Difficult to be profitable. beware of gossips. competition.

Meeting: may meet with curse

Illness: illnesses relating to tongue, mouth, astmas.

Burial: Facing West. near to pond

Legal: debatable. loss arising from legal suit. guard against penalty.

Name: Chinese surname with mouth or gold characters

Number: 4, 2, 9

Direction: West

Colour: White

Taste: Hot and spicy


http://www.fivearts.net/index.php/topic,1563.0.html

 

[pocossin]

Hi pocossin,

Interpreting the trigrams using Shao Yung’s methodology is hard and confusing. Especially more so when you have exactly the same hexagrams and moving lines from 2 situations.

It depends on your expectations. If you expect fate to be contained wholly within the casting, then it is confusing. If you expect fate to be disclosed by subtle signs within the situation (the seeds of the future), then the casting is an aid to focusing on these signs, and there is no confusion. You wouldn't expect to see the same thing each time you looked through a microscope, so you shouldn't expect to see the same thing each time you look through a casting. There is a Shao Yong story about this, but I can't find it at the moment. Shao received the same casting three times but gave a different interpretation each time.

(a) How does one interpret the meaning of the resulting hexagrams and trigrams – Shao Yung’s style?

By becoming aware of the spirit of the situation. For the frog, were you trying to divine the fate of the frog? For the 10-Pin Bowling meet-up, were you trying to divine the fate of the group or your personal fate? In conventional I Ching terms, What is the question?

(b) Does it mean that the meaning is the SAME for the two situations? If no, what are the similarities and differences? (Note: in both situations, all the hexagrams are the same including the moving line)

What is ominous or unusual in the two situations? How did encountering the black frog and not dining with the group make you feel?

(c) If there are not much of a difference in the meanings, then how does one use the I-Ching to differentiate them? (I reckon there are more than meets the eye. . .).

Indeed. How did it touch your heart?

 

[globalex]

Thank you for your answer, pocossin.
It seems that it's all in the guts. Perhaps I should continue with my meditation practise which will assists me greatly in interpreting the trigrams.
If you happen to come across the story about Shao Yung receiving the same casting 3 times, please include it in this thread. It'll certainly clear a lot of issues.
Thanks

 

[globalex]

Hi 1eleven,
Thank you for your post.
Just like to ask you something.
Take an example from your upload:
兑卦：
(Dui Gua)
_ _
___
___
Home: Unrest. beware of gossips. divine in autumn good. but not in summer.
Question:
What does it means when it states "divine in autumn good but not in summer" or "divine during spring not good"?
Cheers

 

[pocossin]

If you happen to come across the story about Shao Yung receiving the same casting 3 times, please include it in this thread. It'll certainly clear a lot of issues.

Found it. It's at Five Arts.

The ‘Chopstick’ Character

One day in spring, Shao Yong, the author of a Plum Blossom poem and a great master of fortune telling during the Northern Song Dynasty, was setting up his stall at the head of the Luo River bridge.

Near noon a peasant came by and said, " When I left my house this morning I felt something would be happening, so I hurried home after I finished my shopping. Would you tell me if this is auspicious or inauspicious?"

Shao Yong let the old peasant pick a character. He handed it to Shao Yong; explaining that he was uneducated and unable to read, "So, tell me clearly, Sir."

Shao Yong saw it was a ‘chopstick’ character; he looked at the old peasant and said,

"Congratulation! This afternoon you will be having a nice meal. Hurry home now; otherwise, if you are late, you will miss it."

Hearing the old peasant said to himself: “I only want my safety. I won’t dare to wish for any other good things.” Then he left.

When he was home his nephew informed him that he had waited for him for four hours. "I am preparing to leave. Today is my dad’s sixtieth birthday, and I would like to invite you to celebrate."

The old peasant changed into clean clothes and happily went to the party.

The old peasant had been gone for an hour, and it was past noon, and Shao Yong was about to pack up his things when a person jumped from south-travelling a cart and said,

"Please, wait, Sir; I have heard that you have amazing foresight talents, so I came to ask you to see how my fate is. Today I hope you will give advice."

Shao Yong let him pick a rolled paper, opened it and saw a ‘chopstick’ character. Shao Yong looked at it with an unsettled state of mind. He slowly said,

"From the look of the ‘chop stick’ character - it is a strange omen; it tells me you will encounter a mishap connected with water. Please, be careful."

The person looked at the sunny cloudless weather, and returned to the cart without saying thank-you. He hurried home and was relieved as soon as he was at his door and said,

"I am already home and not a drop of water to be seen, so Shao's prediction was utter nonsense."

He had just finished saying that when he was doused from a bucket of dirty water. His wife was unaware he was already home, so she slopped the water out as usual after cleaning the wok, and the dirty water hit her husband.

That afternoon when Shao Yong walked to the head of the bridge another person was waiting for him there. As soon as Shao Yong sat down that person said in a low muffled voice,

"Sir, would you foretell me my luck today?"

Shao Yong let the person pick a rolled paper, which he handed to Shao. He looked at it - again a 'chopstick' character! He could not help but gasp in surprise: Not good! The person urged him to speak up. Shao Yong predicted that the fortune seeker would encounter being locked up for his irritable temper and would not avoid capture. "Be careful!"

The person promised to stay at home and not go out, and "then let’s see if I still invite disaster." He turned and left abruptly, went straight to bed and was soon snoring. Suddenly a scolding woman awoke him, saying his pig had trampled her vegetable garden. He got quite angry, argued with her and went outside. He retaliated for her scolding and berating by hitting her with a fist. The already ill woman could not withstand the fist, fell to the ground and died.

A while later the police arrived; arrested him and charged him with murder.

http://www.fivearts.net/index.php?topic=4552.0

 

[1eleven]

Hi 1eleven,
Thank you for your post.
Just like to ask you something.
Take an example from your upload:
兑卦：
(Dui Gua)
_ _
___
___
Home: Unrest. beware of gossips. divine in autumn good. but not in summer.
Question:
What does it means when it states "divine in autumn good but not in summer" or "divine during spring not good"?
Cheers

This is based on the Season of the casting. The trigram above represents the element Metal - Metal is prosperous in Autumn but dead in Summer (Fire melts Metal)

Spring (Wood) - Summer (Fire) - Four Seasons (Earth) - Autumn (Metal) - Winter (Water)

Jon

 

[globalex]

Hi pocossin,

After reading the story of Shao Yung and the Chopstick character which he received and divined 3 time on the same day, it got me thinking.

Can it be said that the Plum Blossom Methodology of Shao Yung is best used on the day it is utilised? Most, if not all, of Shao Yung's divination stories were based on the day he witnessed change or something strange happened.

Can the methodology be used to predict something in a few days, weeks, months or years ahead? For example, can Shao Yung, several days before, predicted that on that day in Spring, 3 men came in the afternoon to ask him about their luck, and they all picked the Chopstick character?

Regards

 

[1eleven]

See my thread on Sports Prediction.

Jon

 

[pocossin]

Can it be said that the Plum Blossom Methodology of Shao Yung is best used on the day it is utilised? Most, if not all, of Shao Yung's divination stories were based on the day he witnessed change or something strange happened.

Can the methodology be used to predict something in a few days, weeks, months or years ahead? For example, can Shao Yung, several days before, predicted that on that day in Spring, 3 men came in the afternoon to ask him about their luck, and they all picked the Chopstick character?

In my opinion there are two ways of looking at time: calculable clock time and seasonality. Clock time is used in Plum Blossom Divination to calculate the casting. Nevertheless, seasonality controls interpretation. Clock time is easy. Seasonality is difficult. It is xuan (玄) and cannot adequately be put into words. Unlike objective clock time, xuan is subjective and must be personally experienced. It is the difference you feel between fall and spring -- if you live in that part of the Earth where there are seasons. Spring is the season of youth, marriage, and expansion of any enterprise. Fall is the season, of aging (ageing in British English), separation, and contraction of any enterprise. It is this quality of time that controls accurate interpretation in Plum Blossom. Actually, it is Jung's synchronicity. What goes with this season? That is what will happen.

. . . can Shao Yung, several days before, predicted that on that day in Spring, 3 men came in the afternoon to ask him about their luck, and they all picked the Chopstick character?

Maybe. Shao was a divination genius. I do not aspire to that level, and adequate and useful responses to the questions asked at Clarity do not require it. Also, I should say that the Shao Yong stories are considered by scholars to be pseudepigraphal. That is, they are representative of his abilities but did not actually happened. Shao was esteemed in his generation for his extraordinary insight into human character and was often consulted by scholars (the Mandarin class) about whom they should employ or promote. It is most unlikely that he literally set up a stall at a bridge as an ordinary fortune teller might do. Those who wanted a consultation with Shao came to Shao. He tended his garden and avoided the public.

 

[globalex]

Thanks pocossin.

If I Ching can be used to predict anything, I wonder whether it can be used to answer or explain the meaning of one's dream. Have you ever encounter this before?

Also, when I post my reply the last time, it appeared twice. Is there something wrong with the website?

Cheers

 

[globalex]

Hi Jon,

Will look into your thread on Sports Prediction. If I can't find it, I'll let you know.

Cheers
globalex

 

[pocossin]

If I Ching can be used to predict anything, I wonder whether it can be used to answer or explain the meaning of one's dream. Have you ever encounter this before?

Yes, there are examples of dream interpretation through the I Ching at Clarity.

when I post my reply the last time, it appeared twice. Is there something wrong with the website?

Yes, at the moment there is something wrong with the website. Server response is slow. It often takes five to ten seconds to respond. This gives the impression that nothing is happening, so the natural impulse is to click the send button again. Duplicate posts happen regularly, and I delete them when I notice them.

 

[globalex]

Sports Prediction

See my thread on Sports Prediction.

Jon

Hi Jon,

I went to search for your thread on Sports Prediction but I could not find it. Also, when I click to get into your forum, I was disallowed even though I have logged in.

Any idea how I can read your thread?

Regards
globalex

 

[1eleven]

Hi globalex,
Sorry for not providing the link - here you go:
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?17615-Sports-Prediction

Jon

 

[pocossin]

Five Arts down

Unfortunately, the Five Arts site has been shut down, but maybe some of its members will move here.

http://www.fivearts.net/

 

[svenrus]

Briefly having been look'in Sung Dynasty uses of the I Ching, still my question is: Has any of Shao Yongs books been translated into english ? (ie his own writings)