pondering wondering 25 to 48

[dragona]

Well then, operative and back,hoping to use Yi for the better.
Greetings to all wise and kind Clarity members, hope you are doing well.

Decided to ask for a smarter interpretation to a question I find to be redundant really, because it is just my bad luck in life. Seeking balance - that is, so I asked:
Why men leave my life? (In every life`s area, they seem to be lacking or rare)
Hex.25.1,2,3,4,6<48
That was a second cast with multiple changing lines after a pause so asked about right interpretation here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=16063 and still could use more objective look on it if you would be so kind.
:bows:

 

[ginnie]

I think here 48 is about getting your social and biological needs satisfied.

The changing lines in chronological order are:

25.1 > 12
25.2 > 10
25.3 > 14
25.4 > 42
25.6 > 17

Well, they seem to tell a story with twists and turns but only you would be able to fill in the details of the story ...

 

[dragona]

Thanks for the reply.
I thought that relating hex was me, and people using and abusing the well that is always there and friendly opened passing it by while the lines speak of the story...still, nothing I managed to conclude and use to my advantage.

 

[diamanda]

The way I read five changing lines is this - all aspects of the hexagram have collapsed, and only one still stands. It's as if you get one changing line, but this time with a different 'result'.

If we had only one changing line, 25.5, to me it would mean that someone is ill, and one needs to grin and bear it (21). In contrast, in your answer the 'remaining' line 25.5 would mean that someone is ill, and soon they will be Well again, or their own inner source is still good, etc etc all positive. The illness of 25 is not one's own fault. So, trust your own Well, from this answer I really don't think it's something you do or don't do, and it also sounds to me like the problem will not last long.

 

[dragona]

Interesting...My initial idea was to look at the unchanged line after all of others and go with a sigh of let it be kind but then, Yi is way smarter than this....and I do feel abandoned in many ways so perhaps a strong male energy is evidently more lacking than usual but I don`t know what I am doing wrong really....it all goes back to father daughter relationship, must be even tho I do not feel the Yi is making any referals to that here.

 

[ginnie]

In the circle of my female friends and acquaintances, usually there is no male person to be the steadfast partner ... I have seen this again and again. And then there is the little boy syndrome, in which full-grown men are emotionally stunted, many times by the lack of male figures in their own lives when they were growing up. I know many mature women who are living alone without male companionship. It's a really widespread phenomenon.

 

[Trojina]

The way I read five changing lines is this - all aspects of the hexagram have collapsed, and only one still stands. It's as if you get one changing line, but this time with a different 'result'.

.

interesting...as if all the other lines were heading off elsewhere and the one unchanging line remains prominent in the reading but prominent in a different sort of reverse image way than if it were the only change line ? I'll have to play with that

 

[Trojina]

In the circle of my female friends and acquaintances, usually there is no male person to be the steadfast partner ... I have seen this again and again. And then there is the little boy syndrome, in which full-grown men are emotionally stunted, many times by the lack of male figures in their own lives when they were growing up. I know many mature women who are living alone without male companionship. It's a really widespread phenomenon.

On a different level....and a happier one, apparently the Dalai Lama said something like truth or light was coming to the world through western mature women....can't recall what the exact statement but what I'm getting at is this 'phenomenon' may not be a lack or a problem as such but may be a spiritual energetic rebalancing of our energies here on earth. Things have been unbalanced for a very long time with the wisdom of women, especially older women denigrated and ignored. In order for it now to develop and return it may need to do so uncomplicated/freed from/disentangled from the complications of weaving around/placating/pleasing the male. Males too may need to do their own thing which could involve not having dependent females cluttering their energy or making demands for security they cannot meet....and why should they. What I'm saying is its a change thats all, its not bad its just part of the time we live in. ETA I also know many older men living alone. They have relationships with women living alone....but they both need their own space emotionally and spiritually which seems natural given that focus in later life must be more spiritual than to do with making a family/making money and so on.

Thats no help to Dragona I suppose...except I agreee with Ginnie Dragona that it is not necessary to internalise your situation as something to do with you father....Things have changed so much I think women and men need to re find their own nature and strengths and they can't always do that while chugging along throwing everything into a marriage etc etc. It occurs to me aswell hex 25 supports this disentangling. Whatever your situation here you aren't responsible for creating it...its how society is moving

 

[dragona]

I still have no idea how to multy quote here so just a few things maybe.
I don`t think this reading should refer to father daughter relationship which was poor but it just feels things beginning from there.
And yes, it does not help to know that it is a common thing for many, it just feels strangely unbalanced situation for me as when I was a child, I had boys in my company daily and it felt good that way. And I don`t see why it should not continue to a degree but lately I make friends and it lasts until there is a girlfriend in the picture or they were just looking for one - I am a transitional figure towards love, it seems. I even joke about it, but it seems to work only one way.
Thus my question.
As for the idea of collapsing lines, it made sense in a way that the changing ones did/are happening so they were activated, now spent in a way, and only one left charged.
Trojan, what you meant as "prominent in a different sort of reverse image"?
Sort of Fan Yao or?...
And I can`t help myself reading the lines chronologically and in that way finding 5th connected to 6th one as they are both advising not to do anything - as if there was something to do; one cannot force people into one`s life in a quality way.

 

[Trojina]

Trojan, what you meant as "prominent in a different sort of reverse image"?
Sort of Fan Yao or?...

I was trying to get a handle on what Diamanda was saying here, nothing to do with the fan yao but her way of thinking about 5 changing lines and the significance of the one that remains unchanging

The way I read five changing lines is this - all aspects of the hexagram have collapsed, and only one still stands. It's as if you get one changing line, but this time with a different 'result'.

I understood it as this one line not changing is as significant as 1 changing line but in quite a different way. I can't yet put this idea into practise but its an interesting idea.

I'm wondering in what way is the one unchanging line different to one changing line. An example was given but I didn't quite understand it.

 

[Trojina]

As for the idea of collapsing lines, it made sense in a way that the changing ones did/are happening so they were activated, now spent in a way, and only one left charged

thats what i was trying to understand in practise. I guess its like both stand out in relief against a different backdrop....1 line changing is quite emphatic....all lines changing except 1 line is also emphatic but in a different way. I'm trying to understand in what way its different.

Reminds me of those pictures where if you look at it one way its a face and if you look at it another way its a vase. Which you see it as depends upon how you see the background.

Like this http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ol...kIMep0AX-moGgCg&ved=0CCwQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=622

 

[dragona]

Understood.

I'm wondering in what way is the one unchanging line different to one changing line. An example was given but I didn't quite understand it.

I think it would usually be connected to its relating hexagram by concluded meaning, this way stresses the advice given within the line as one thing left to do...something like that as I understood

 

[Trojina]

I just wrote a long post that vanished !

When a post vanishes its usually for a good reason and yet i still want to say what I said

so I will say what I said more briefly

what you said here

And I can`t help myself reading the lines chronologically and in that way finding 5th connected to 6th one as they are both advising not to do anything - as if there was something to do; one cannot force people into one`s life in a quality way.

25.6 is not advising not to do anything. 25 is all about spontaneity. chance etc. Its like you have been fishing in the well of men (hex 48) relying on serendipity (hex 25) but by the time we get to 25.6 that doesn't work anymore. We need to think, to be consciously aware to take responsible action . You didn't get 25.5....so the one thing you don't need to do is do nothing !

You say at school you had many boy friends...but thats the same for everyone...I mean as one gets older meeting someone is not the same casual game it was at 16 as I guess you know. So I think on reflection if we compared this answer to a fishing trip (apologies to fishermen if fishing is not like this) the time of just casting your line and hoping for the best is gone, thought and strategy are needed. You may need to think about where the men you might like to be with are....meet them through joining things etc or even joining a dating agency etc.


I could be wrong but I sometimes get the impression that you are having mainly email/online contact with men and then often left guessing if they are interested or not ? It might all be too indirect now ? I think perhaps if you strongly feel you want a relationship it might be time to be more proactive in actually meeting men who are also looking for someone.

Its okay just dangling your fishing rod in the water and hoping a fish will bite but it looks like that approach doesn't work now......and its time for a more focused approach if you definately would like a relationship with a man now.


Sorry if I have misunderstood your situation....I'm going by what I so far understand.


You aren't responsible for the situation of difficulty in finding men, but here you can have some responsibilty for dealing with it if you want to.

 

[dragona]

Ok, so now, I have lost MINE post....
It is not that I had many boyfriend, quite the contrary -when was very young, spent time playing and talking to a few boys. The theme here is that throughout life, I felt men lacking in it, not just as boyfriends but as crowd to hang with, mentors, father figure..nothing kept or felt stable.
Further more, I am not easily swayed and never really like someone all that much, it has to take time as I have a long fuse...and social life suffered greatly for the last few years due to work, family and health issues but I never was much of a party animal. And foreigners are interesting to meet anyway....for more than one reason.
So, I am just looking for some balance in life and also then in this area of it.
Not that your explanation did not make sense but I read the advice if 25.6 quite differently:
Legge: 6. The topmost NINE, undivided, shows its subject free from insincerity, yet sure to fall into error, if he take action. (His action) will not be advantageous in any way.
Line 6 is at the top of the hexagram, and comes into the field when the action has run its course. He should be still, and not initiate any fresh movement.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=2281

 

[Trojina]

Not that your explanation did not make sense but I read the advice if 25.6 quite differently:
Legge: 6. The topmost NINE, undivided, shows its subject free from insincerity, yet sure to fall into error, if he take action. (His action) will not be advantageous in any way.
Line 6 is at the top of the hexagram, and comes into the field when the action has run its course. He should be still, and not initiate any fresh movement.

Yes that's a disparity I noticed myself. On one hand the time for drifting along without taking care has past and on the other hands many commentaries say take no action.

I tend to take it as "take no action if you are unclear, if you are on automatic pilot without thinking then don't act...." IOW take time to think clearly nand then act.

The trouble with relying on commentaries is they always show the bias of the author.

The translation of what Yi says is actually "Without entanglement, Acting brings blunders. No direction bears fruit" thats from Hilary's book. So if you act in this disentangled state its not good you need to act in a more thoughtful considered way.

In wiki Hilary says she received this line on a few occasions where she had things cooking on the stove forgot them and they burned and spoiled. That illustrates to me that acting in a disentangled way there was not adequate...she couldn't act as if those pots and pans were really not her problem....acting that way bought disaster (burned food) she needed to be more mindful that actually she couldn't be disentangled from those pots and that they were her responsibility.

So i think 25.6 doesn't mean 'don't do anything' it rather means 'don't do anything in the almost careless state of mind....start thinking more deliberately" I checked out the link you gave and seems to me Bradford is saying something similar to what I mean

Anyway FWIW I don't think email liasons with foreigners is a reliable basis for meeting your requirements for relationships with men......if it only leads to asking questions about his feelings or intentions. There must be men nearer in your town or city.....you can see and touch and know what they mean....there might be some looking and wishing for someone just like you .

 

[Trojina]

Here is a quote from wiki on 25.6

‘Without entanglement. Acting brings blunders.
No direction brings harvest.’

Being ‘without entanglement’ has been taken too far: someone is going with the flow with such total innocence that he fails to commit himself and take charge of developments. Eventually, opportunities are missed, and he runs into a dead end. Or he's so disengaged from other people that his actions expose his perfect cluelessness, and then their reactions to him come as a nasty surprise.

You see Legge like all commentators takes Yi's words and interprets them one way....but that doesn't mean it is correct. I think if experience most often bears out that acting without plan in 25.6 is not good then that's the angle I will favour.

In your specific question perhaps the 25.6 refers to the men who leave in your life. perhaps they have been too disentangled, acting as if what happens has nothing much to do with them ? I don't know, it may refer to them...or you. Hard to say.

But for you now its not enough is it, you don't want that attitude so maybe...only maybe you need a more direct approach to get the kind of man you actually want ?

 

[Lilly-La]

I once did notice that i was more attractive to men when i was in a relationship. Attraction did decrease when i was more or less 'available' (no idea if this is the correct english expression, sounds a bit strange .

Many months back i did read an article (What makes women attractive for men) where a research was cited. Women in relationships are often more attractive than single ones. Seems this has to do with self confidence of the women in relationships. Another speculative point was that men like to hunt by evolution .. it is kind of game for men and so those women are more attractive. However,i wonder if your hex 25 simply says: you are too innocent.

Personally I believe trojan did really express it well: a more direct approach seems better (is less 'innocent') though not 'knowing' you it makes great sense to me from what i read.
all the best from another single

 

[dragona]

Yes that's a disparity I noticed myself. On one hand the time for drifting along without taking care has past and on the other hands many commentaries say take no action.
Exactly.

I tend to take it as "take no action if you are unclear, if you are on automatic pilot without thinking then don't act...." IOW take time to think clearly nand then act.

The trouble with relying on commentaries is they always show the bias of the author.
I was under the impression that Legge was quite unbiased in his translation.

The translation of what Yi says is actually "Without entanglement, Acting brings blunders. No direction bears fruit" thats from Hilary's book. So if you act in this disentangled state its not good you need to act in a more thoughtful considered way.

In wiki Hilary says she received this line on a few occasions where she had things cooking on the stove forgot them and they burned and spoiled. That illustrates to me that acting in a disentangled way there was not adequate...she couldn't act as if those pots and pans were really not her problem....acting that way bought disaster (burned food) she needed to be more mindful that actually she couldn't be disentangled from those pots and that they were her responsibility.

So i think 25.6 doesn't mean 'don't do anything' it rather means 'don't do anything in the almost careless state of mind....start thinking more deliberately" I checked out the link you gave and seems to me Bradford is saying something similar to what I mean

Thought of it some last night and the line that is last, must be directing out of the philosophy of hex 25 as the idea that it has gone too far and further more will lead into state of the next hex or it is supposed to maybe...a reality check? change of course? learn from the past or just be more concrete? this makes me want to be more careless, I tell you....

 

[dragona]

Well, I do believe in all kinds of possibilities in men-women relations, and I want to be able to work on them. If it makes me an innocent, I like that. Open harted I was.
Lily, It should not be about available romantically or not... more about how you are feeling about yourself alltogether, but I heard of the theory, of course.Perhaps I am not taking the right stand.

 

[Trojina]

Yes I think perhaps a reality check or just more awareness of how things actually work in the real world.

The other day while waiting in traffic I gazed at the sky which was beautiful all silver and marble behind the outline of the trees and thinking how it would be nice to be able to live for just living without all the restrictions of bearocracy and complications etc....IOW like as a child (hex 25 ?) hmm then I noticed the lights had changed and I was holding up the traffic while I looked at the sky I felt that a 25.6 moment.

It reminded me when as a child I liked to ride my bike fast while looking at the sky. One day I fell off through doing this and hurt myself quite badly.....same thing isn't it.
25.6 might be a time where as nice as it is to look at the sky and let your mind drift being in charge of a vehicle, of any kind, is not the time to do it . Other realities are present too, other people, other cars, holes in the road, so I can't disengage from that reality as if what I do, ie looking at the sky, will have no impact on them.

I don't see your answer as negative BTW...reflective, perhaps this is what the 25.6 men/situations were like or suggestive you start to fish in the well in a more conscious way ?


I think I'm fairly safe to stare at the sky on the park bench.......but you never know

 

[diamanda]

I'm wondering in what way is the one unchanging line different to one changing line. An example was given but I didn't quite understand it.

What I meant was that, in my experience, the difference is the 'outcome' (ie resulting hexagram).

Eg, if I received in my reading 19.1>7, I would take it that it means that myself and another party involved are together united in fighting to achieve a specific goal (or something like that, depending on details).

If I received 19.2,3,4,5,6>13, ie only line unchanging would be 19.1, then 19.1 seems to be very stressed here, and I would take it that it means that myself and another party involved are together and united in some peaceful social friendship meeting (or something like that, depending on details).

 

[dragona]

I tried to forget how things work in so called reality.....love is not everydays illness anyway...but this was more in general way asked:
why men leave my life?
Eminent - expansion, Harvest - determination
An incorrect attitude brings disaster through shortsightedness
No ground for harvest LiSe
I should think it is speaking to me about me, so I interpret as follows:
approaching men in an open innocent manner may end up in misunderstandings - too opened may look like too careless, without expectations or a plan, may seam superficial; work better with unexpected.
now for the changing lines:
1. Innocent proceeding. Auspicious.
It is good to be open minded when meeting new people in life. Whatever may come out of it, should be regarded with an open mind and without too much expectations.
2. Not plowing reaping, not preparing maintaining fields. Then there is harvest by proceeding probing.
One should enter connections and relationships without premeditation or hidden motives but rather concentrate on here and now.
3. The disaster of innocence. Someone binds his cow, road-people's gain, town people's disaster.
There will be occasions when people passing through your life may just use what was offered or consider it a steal and leave making the other feel at loss for its innocence.
4. He can determine. Without fault.
But with such experience gained, we learn to recognize such potentials in advance.
5. The illness of innocence. Do not use medicine, have joy.
When joy turns into bitterness, remember it was also your choice and try to see a bigger picture and learn something from it. (not that it is referring to me as I did not get this line as changing)
6. Innocent moving brings disaster. No ground for harvest.
Keeping moving forward in life with the same amount of innocence can be called naive (complimentary) and will lead into further disappointments when dealing with people met. Different approach is needed or we end up feeling more and more oppressed, finding that our dreams and expectations get further away from reality (mountain above heaven as in the Great Timing)

Keeping ones Well clean and clear sustains one in life.

:bag: