Probability of the same exact reading twice in a row??

[kwan_yin]

I contacted an old friend last week, well sort of, talked with his grandfather,(who said he'd forward my number when my friend gets back in town) asked I Ching "where will this go?" and the answer was 13 changing to 30. Now there had been some distractions when I did it, so just in case I did it again, and to my amazement it was 30 changing to 13--again just reversed. What could that mean, and what is the mathematic probability of that happening?

 

[frank]

Hi Kwan-Yin, or must I say Guan Yin... at least you are one of my favorite godesess :-D. About probablities I can?t tell you much, it?s a heck of a coincidence, that?s for shure... 13 is about ?equal people? and 30 about ?every day life?. Perhaps the Yi is just trying to tell you not to go to far in thoughts and just live your every day life, and you will notice how ?this goes?... Mmm, pretty ?duh? answer, isn?t :-D...? Well, that?s just my first impression.

Hug,
Frank

 

[kwan_yin]

Thanks Frank Guan Yin and/or Kwan Yin, is a fav alias for me,(tried to use my first name, Amanda, but it's taken) for the same reason, she's one of my favorites--Don't ya just hate those "duh" answers when ya get em?!Just found the 'tears in streams' a lil unnerving, except it's followed by 'then laughter.'On both hexagrams(Wilhelm and Legge)I've been pondering this a while--think it's saying you'll find out soon enough, just proceed with life...I hate that, though, drives me crazy, because that much you can ascertain with no Yi at all! That whole "you'll see" thing

This matter has given me a number of answers-most of which are kind of good ones,but I have gotten some saying things about kindred spirits knowing each other's feelings from far away, and a friend needing help-suggesting my urgency on this (which I'm not sure I quite understand) is coming from without-something I hadn't considered. I know he's physically OK, just will feel much better if I know he's OK OK, ya know? Well and then there's this matter of unfinished business, but that's an easy one, reallyCan't be carrying over to the next life what could be fixed now, can we?The attempt has to count for something at least, lol.
Thanks again! Have you seen the interpretations on Yi Jing, by LiSe Heyboer on the web, by any chance?(the book of sun and moon, there is a link to Clarity from there) If so, what do you think of those, think they're good ones? I'm fairly new to this, so as many different things I can find help. Know any really good sources on the web (apart from this one,of course!)
Thanks so much!! Amanda a.k.a. Kwan Yin

 

[jesed]

Hi

Take a look to Bradford's work www.hermetica.info

Best wishes

 

[jte]

Does Bradford have calculations for e.g., getting the same reading twice somewhere on his site?

Brad?

- Jeff

 

[bradford_h]

I haven't done that math. And it would vary by method (coins, yarrow, etc).
There are 4096 possible readings, but hexagrams with no or few changing lines are more likely than those with many or all changing.

 

[jesed]

Hi Jeff

I was responding to the last sentence of Kwan yin
"Know any really good sources on the web (apart from this one,of course!)", not to the math issue

 

[kwan_yin]

Thanks Jesed, and everyone!! Used the coin method, thought that was a really odd thing, but at least it wasn't a horrible answer repeated, have to be thankful for what I can! Thanks everyone!

 

[frank]

Yo Guan Yinni :-D,

Wow, that was some respons :-D. And shure, I hate does damn answers where the Yi is actually giving you the question back in a way where you have to figure things out yourself. My experience tough is to have faith in the good cause and reason why the Yi has responded in that particular mather in the first place, because usualy there is another ?lesson? beyond the answer you received. Like... OK you asked this, but I KNOW (the Yi knows...) this is a question because it is actually dealing about something else... and the peace in waiting is just the lesson to be learned in that. Does that sound like a doorbell to you (ding dong, wow I suddenly saw the light :-D))?

Probably both anwers given in a way are opposites to each other, in a way that both ?settings? you where in while asking the questions deal with opposites in the matter... It must have something to do, at least, with feeling sympathy in the first place, otherwise you should not have had his granddad on the phone, yeah, you can figure that out even without coins, cards, or tortoise shells (if you have dose :-D)... But still, Hex. 13 is about sympathy for equal people. It seems that the Yi is telling you that within that setting things are going to be just fine. Hexagram 30 tells you to look to what kind of things you want to attach yourself to, as in ordinairy life, and perhaps by combinating these answers a view is formed where by looking to everyday things in life, looking to what YOU want with this, and by experiencing it, you will get the idea yourself how things are going to be in the near future.

Just a curiuous thing... Was there in any way a certain conflict between you two earlier, before asking this question, or some sort of inside conflict within you, and now you are trying to get ?equal? with it, also for yourself? I wander...

Huggie,
Frank

 

[frank]

O yes, and I do know Lise...

 

[kwan_yin]

Oh my Frank, that was an excellent question-we had a bit of a conflict, but it was more of a misunderstanding, sort of unneccessary splitting (going away to college, he was, and a close family member of mine was killed, I was not dealing well with that at all) just needed a bit of space really, both of us, no real animosity though, and it has bothered me a long time the way things went, but I suppose everything happens for a reason. Just miss that friendship, and I feel like some thank you's and apologies are in order, just set things right, if we can't at least talk sometimes. That is so interesting you would ask that!! I wish we could talk it over at least, have missed him TERRIBLY, one of those people I feel like I've always known, just stinks the way that it left off, for no real significant reason...so wish me luck!
What do you think of the interpretations Lise gives, they're a little different, lil gentler sometimes,

-not sure if that's always better tho!
Wow, that certainly is interesting, to be able to tell the past of a situation with this..that's very, very interesting...although it wouldn't have lasted this long if it wasn't working!!
Thank you, Frank--*hugs back*

 

[frank]

Hi Kwan Yin,

There are many ways of reading hexagrams, I just gave you another insight by asking about the past... I discovered a new way (a very old way actually) of looking at that. There are people here who work with ?tradition? and say that the past of the answer lays in a hexagram which you can make by transforming ALL lines into its opposite, so every YIN line into Yang, and vice versa, EXCEPT the ones who ?change?... So in this case for 13 that would be 29... and then especialy line 5 of 29... and for 30 it would be 29, line 5 too... You should ask Jesed more for that one if you are interested.

There is also a ?tradition? that tells you that you could read the past in the ?nuclear hexagram? of the reseived one. For 13 that would then be 43, line 6, and for 30, hexagram 28, line 6...

I, for reading the past, or at least the ?cause?, that what caused, the ?before? the outcome you received, change the lower trigram... For 13 that would then be hexagram 6... Therefor my question was about a ?conflict?... For 30 the ?cause? could lay in hexagram 64... You haven?t crossed a bridge then...

As for the future, or at least the ?profitable? thing to do in this situation to get ahead, is layed out by changing the upper trigram, so for 13 there is 36... Stay low for a while... and for 30 it would be 63... There is a new opportunity to cross the bridge...

That what you, in this particular case have to accept, have to interact with, and does not change, and you are challenged to just work with it, is layed out by changing both the upper and lower trigrams... In the case for hexagram 13, the challenge lays in hexagram 7... Collect people around you, forces, or organise your own force and tactics... as for 30 the challenge / acceptance would be in 29... Follow the heart...

(For a mix and looking at Jesed?s theory, you could also perhaps say: ?Accept the past, as 29 in his theory is about the past in this case...)

Aside... I think Lise?s interpetations are swell... Sometimes a bit off because she looks to ethymolocial meanings in the characters... Recently we had a discussion here on this board about the meaning of hexagram 52 and I entered the ?ethymological? entrance... Some people then claimed that was not the right case by reading the actual texts... So, you could stick to some entrance, and Lise (or I in this manner) stick to another one... The truth is in the middle somewhere overthere. See for yourself where yours is...

Huggie,
Frank

 

[kwan_yin]

OH Frank you're such an angel!!I'm so glad you're helping me, I do appreciate it so much! Thanks so much! I've only just started this but it is having quite an impact on my life-never thought it would. I've read tarot, but it's nothing at all as straight forward as this. Well, I dunno, studied astrology since I was 8 or so, it's pretty sharp too. It's odd you should mention 63-I read last night,overview of things, general type reading, and got 63 changing to 51-(which naturally scared me, cuz I'm a ninny)I guess we'll see! I've been wanting to ask someone who would know, how do you know which lines are considered ruling, and how's that affect the outcome of an answer? And does each line of text refer to a different party? I really am starting to love this Yi, things like this fascinate me (it's all that scorpio and virgo in my charts, lol)and I'm always looking to learn about it-but don't let me nag ya! In asking about him, I got 36 changing to 6-his situation where he is-think maybe that's what started all this worry! Thank you, good Sir Frank,lol, your help has been immeasurably valuable!
I rather liked Lise's interpretations, was a little afraid to, though, wanted to see what you thought about that, as you know the Yi way better than I do. I'm not sure I get what those sabian symbols are exactly, but that's OK!

Peace and Love-Kwan Yin

 

[frank]

Gee, Kwan Yin, you make me blush...

You tell a lot in such a ?short? post :-D...

1. 63-1 goes into the direction of hex. 39... perhaps the ?general? overview goes into a direction where you cross bridges and get into hindrances to solve them...

2. 63, changing into 51, wich makes lines 3, 4 & 5 change, makes you scare for opportunities... and as FACT... it is about the feeling, NOT about the thing itself that scares you... Mostly people are not that afraid of failure, they are afraid of succes... Supose you DO succeed... o boy...

3. How do you know which lines are ?ruling?? Do you mean the changing lines, or the ?ruling? lines as mentioned in Wilhelm (square and circle before the line)...?

4. Does each line refer to a different party...? Mmm, I?m not into this that much, but a lot of discussion has been going on here... The people here would consider to answer this question with a YES... But I work to little with that to tell from experience... which to me is most of the time more reliable then just what need to be done in theory...

5. ha ha... 36 into 6... I told ya... amazing that you actually received the answer yourself now by asking about ?him?... Great! Stay low then... But whoooo... you asked ?where HE is...? OK that changes the thing... HE should stay low...

and Good Sir Frank... wow... just Frank will do... Mr Frank? mmm.... Master Frank... Neuh... The Frankster... :-D...

Those sabian symbols on Lise?s site are a way to link astrology with the I Ching... Not in my soup :-D... But why not ask Lise herself... she is around here somewhere :-D?

Huggies, and keep those enthousiastic questions, answers, insights, stories, etc comming...

Huggie,
Frank

 

[kwan_yin]

I'm glad you were flattered, though it wasn't 'flattery,'as such, you've already told me quite a few things I didn't know , and helped with this matter particularly, I appreciate it, lots of times you leave a message somewhere and come back to all manner of condescending, not at all bad here so far! So I do find you very helpful.how do you know, when you say changing the upper or lower trigrams, what to change them to, just the yin to yang (except changing), whichever half you're working with, upper or lower? This is a little complex, I like it,

. Yeah these short posts, don't know if ya noticed, I might ramble just a touch,

Thanks though, I'm learning some, been doing this less than a year, I'm a newbie, lol, but I'm learning (or trying to

) nuclear hexagrams? Wow. lot more to this than the surface of it, makes it even better, I think!
thanks for all your help!

 

[frank]

Hi Kwan Yin...

Just give it a try and let me know if it works for you:

1. Received Hexagram and changing lines > FOCUS NOW

2. Change lower trigram in opposite... fire into water, heaven in earth, mountain in lake and thunder in wind, and vice versa... INCLUDING RECEIVED CHANGING LINES, SO IF YOU HAD LINE 2 FOR INSTANCE IN HEXAGRAM FOCUS NOW... THEN YOU SHOULD ALSO READ LINE 2 HERE... > FOCUS PAST or THAT WHAT HAS LEED TO THE HEXAGRAM RECEIVED OR HAS BEEN GOING ON IN THE PARTICULAR AREA OF THE QUESTION

3. Change upper trigram in opposite (see 2 for explaining) > FOCUS FUTURE or THAT WAT IS ADVANCEBLE TO DO IN THIS CASE GO TO FORWARD...

4. Change ALL lines in opposite (see 2 for explaining) > FOCUS ON BASICS THAT NEED TO BE ACCEPTED OR HANDLED WITH EVEN IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT... THEY ARE JUST THERE...

Perhaps it works, perhaps not... I?m still figuring things out myself :-D.

The Nuclear hexagram is for later then, as learning is a proces that needs to be taken step by step :-D...

Huggie,
Frank

 

[kwan_yin]

I had to stop and write this down, so I could do it-you know, I suppose after that long yarrow process you'd want to do as much with one as you could

--I've done this today, I get it!! Thanks for teaching me this stuff, Frank, don't know what I'd do without ya!!
I think some of these seperate lines must apply to different people too-whenever it involves a group query-but I really am way too new to form any real opinions. But in my questions, that's the first thing that struck me, how specific it was in describing all involved, not just me, but again, it is hard to say, haven't been on it very long.
Amazed to see the past of some of these things are echoing past readings (in what was their 'now' forms) as past hexagrams, this is just a little weird, most assuredly why I like it so much,

Thank you, anything else you can think of, please don't hesitate

I really appreciate you taking your time to help me,

**YOU'RE the greatest!!!** Kwan Yin

 

[kwan_yin]

Oh well he called, guess I know how that's going!! I haven't been this happy in a long time, don't even know what to do with myself! Guess the Yi knows!!!Thanks so much Frank, still gonna use this to see what's next!! Kwan Yin

 

[frank]

Hi Kwan Yin,

What's next?... Mmmm, perhaps 36 (upper trigram change of 13) or 63 (upper trigram change 30) can tell... Let me know :-D... And have fun!

Huggie,
Frank

 

[kwan_yin]

I've been a little busy, but I'm also afraid to ask too much about this, silly, isn't it

? I have asked twice what the purpose of all this was,(with this friend of mine) and got hex. 11, peace. Little confusing, some of this, understanding your own goofy urgings. I'm really glad you've shown me how to convert the hexagrams, it's weird but some of the future ones will come up in later consultations-as focus now, and I wonder how long this was going on when I wasn't noticing, cuz I didn't know how! Thank you, again, so much, Mr. Frank!!

 

[frank]

Hi Kwan Yin,

Great result of a great experiment, showing those hexagrams in earlier, now, or future ways isn't

? Hexagram 11 just says to me to 'go with the flow' and let the amazement do it's job...

I'm glad I could be of some help, now enjoy the ride...

And you are not goofy... (minnie probably, or daisy, or maybe even cinderella)...

Hug,
Frank

 

[kwan_yin]

Hopefully Cinderella, she had a cool end!! I've already got the hard beginning part down

I keep getting messages from the Yi telling me things like wait to be led, but I do hate suspense. I hate not knowing just what I should do, I've made mistakes, like everyone, but after my last round, I'm being extra extra careful! Scared to hope for things that may not happen, but I hate not knowing how I should feel about it all! I asked what to expext of this and got 37 changing to (whatta ya know) 13. an earlier question about the same thing (well, or person

) I got 37 changing to 22- they looked OK, but I'm always cringing waiting to see something awful! 58 has been coming up a bit too-hope the joyous means it's OK, too!Anything ya know about those? Thanks for anything on it in advance, and for all the previous stuff, too!