Problem with public company

[maremaria]

Hi all
I would appreciate any help regarding my reading.

From January 2008, there was a leak because one of the water pipes was broken. Because it was bared in the ground we couldn’t see it and we find it out when the bill for that period was mailed to us. That happened ( with a lot of delays) on October 2008. Immediately we fixed it and went to the Water company which is Public ( belongs to the Mayor City) to solve the matter. Part of the responsibility is ours , because they say that we have to check the counting machine , although is something nobody does it, unless a problem occurs. But a big part of responsibility is to the company because its their responsibilities to send the bill to inform us if something goes wrong. The problem was obvious because when for 20 years we spend 400 lt , the most and suddenly the consumption reach to 1500-1700 cm3 then There is a problem. Also because of a campaign to save water, the company had to send letters to citizens that spend much water and I know that many people have received those letters.

Anyway , we made a complain to the director of the Water company and because we saw that she tried to avoid any responsibility he had to go to the mayors office. The Major showed that he realized the things when wrong from their side and asked some time to give us an answer.

Few days ago, we received a letter saying that we ought money and the amount is the same as the initial bills. The only reduction they have made is the money they added as a delayed payment interest. In other words they did nothing.

I asked Yi “ what is the best way to proceed toward the resolution of the matter “ and got 46. My first impression is that I have to go straight to the Mayor. Its funny because his office is one floor up from the water company and since a image of 46 is stairs I thought Yi says “go upstairs" yes?

Based on that interpretation I gave, I also asked
“ What best to say to him” and got 38.2.4.6 > 24
Looking at Wiki Hilary comment re line 38.2 reads

Not a planned meeting, nothing formal. No-one has said, ‘We must sit down together and have a serious conversation about this, because it’s of vital importance.’ (That wouldn’t be a good idea: ‘small affairs, good fortune.’)

Well, this was exactly what I wanted to do but seems its wrong unless it says that to proceed by asking an informal meeting and not do any written claim and just talk
“off the record” which might give him the chance to protect his employees and find a solution to our problem.
This has confused me a bit and “can’t read” the other two lines. Given the situation , any thoughts about 46 and 38.2 ?

Thanks
Maria

 

[lucia]

Can't answer you right now but maybe this will help.....

Somewhere in the archives is a great thread on a similar issue where someone else had to take on a struggle with authorities over big changes in the community that would effect everyone. Sorry to be so vague but maybe this will prompt other people's memories. I've got a feeling informal meetings were also mentioned. Might even have been a 38 too.

But hey how tricky with the Mayor and the water Co in the same building....

Lucia

 

[patro]

hi,
at first I can advice to take an attorney... thats the best way to act after their first answer...
because you are responsible for the line that go from the counter to your.... use!!!
so if there is any other related issue... the best way to have reason is only trough an attorney that can represent you!!
for the riding I will give a look in the books!!!

at first it's seams that there is no way to telling something!!!.... and 24 seams to be a confirmation.
but I will give a look

 

[maremaria]

But hey how tricky with the Mayor and the water Co in the same building....

Lucia

Its a public company and I live in greece . It took them 18 months to answer . go figure !

I'll check the archives for that thread. Thanks, Lucia

 

[maremaria]

hi,
at first I can advice to take an attorney... thats the best way to act after their first answer...
because you are responsible for the line that go from the counter to your.... use!!!
so if there is any other related issue... the best way to have reason is only trough an attorney that can represent you!!
for the riding I will give a look in the books!!!

Hi Patro,
attorney because of 46 ?

at first it's seams that there is no way to telling something!!!.... and 24 seams to be a confirmation.
but I will give a look

well, 24 doesn't sound very encouranging but need to study it more

 

[patro]

attorney because of 46 ?

attorney...because when a public or private company want money the only way is to act trough an attorney... but this is an Italian modus operandi!!
second... because I understand that the leak is after the counter!!!
anyway... I will look in to the books and will post as soon as possible the answer!!

 

[lucia]

46 is without doubt about pushing upwards little bit by little bit and seeing “authorative” people and getting to work and preparing well

38.2 yes is about informal meetings but it doesn’t mean you can’t go the legal route later

38. 4 to encounter someone who is on your side……. Who - is the question here I think

38.6 makes me think there is a way to negotiate this – that it all looks horrible and impossible but somewhere you will find it will not be as bad as you think

I can’t help but think also of the economic situation in Greec right now – this brings 2 things to mind – the authorities will want to recoup as much money as possible because of the heavy imposition of cuts by the IMF and EU BUT likewise they know they have a massive threat of civil unrest on their hands and need to keep the people happy……….

Trust me Maria I know about corruption in the public sphere – where I spend half my life they have as many mayors in jail as out! ( and they still run for election)

Lucia

 

[maremaria]

Lucia, thank you for your ideas.

I have the same feeling for 38.6 as yours. I'm looking for someone around the mayor's office to find an ally and I have done some research on the web for similar cases. Its what we call "invisible leak" so things are a bit complicate.

Tomorrow I'll go visit the head of the Water department and ask to inform me about my case. Not going to negotiate with her. That person is an aquintance of mine and will try to see what to do in a peaceful way for the time being. I know she was blamed for the things went wrong ( 3 times they record the counter and never informed us for that big problem).

From what i gather from those reading, if I get it right, is that i have to try more and not just accept that decision. after all , is a big amount of money and not willing to give it to them without negotiating.

What is "good" from the current situation in greece is that people are fed up with all those we have let rules as and they had to be veeeeeery good to keep people happy.

Thanks again

 

[patro]

hi I'm at home and had time to look in to the books
46 unchanging is a good hex it advice you that what you have to do are smalls steps...
and also you must stay tuned... and it will take more time than you had imagine.

my opinion about 38->24 is referring to your wrong interpretation to go directly to the mayor!!
the IC advice you that you will not talk with him, because you will return on your steps.... and act like you think the first time!!

 

[maremaria]

hi there,

agree with your 46 view. I looked again at 46 and decided to gather info from here and there before going to the mayor., to "accumulates small things to become tall and big" There is no way to avoid go to him because he has to call a meeting to discuss my matter but seems that I have to wait .

I think what i seek is somewhere in line 6 but its not clear to me yet. Perhaps the lord in the alley knows better. We will see.

Thanks Patro,

will let you all know

 

[ginnie]

Given the situation , any thoughts about 46 and 38.2 ?

You cannot achieve anything in one step. It will take time.

Is there any possibility you might call someone on the telephone to get the ball rolling in a phone conversation? In my experience, 38.2, meeting someone in a 'narrow lane' often signifies a telephone call.

 

[ginnie]

Hi Maremaria,

What a lot of water!

Anyway, I think H38 refers to how your thoughts are running, not to a legal situation. You are thinking they are the bad guys, these idiots. You are filled with a sense of estrangement -- like you are powerless and they have all the power, sending you these ridiculous bills.

But this will turn around. You will meet someone who will be willing to help you out in a most kindly way. Things will improve and you probably won't have to pay such a ridiculous bill. You see, right now you think they must be idiots and 'demons,' but they only seem that way because of the situation. Meet people half-way and you will find that some of them are on your side.

 

[lucia]

You see, right now you think they must be idiots and 'demons,' but they only seem that way because of the situation. Meet people half-way and you will find that some of them are on your side.

I'm afraid dear Ginny in the Southern regions where Maria and I are talking about it is more likely to be meeting them with a bribe - a bit of palm greasing as they say lol!

Lucia

 

[maremaria]

thanks Ginnie,

I called the director today because I couldn't go there and she told me that she needs some more time to see my matter again. Before talking about the problem , we could chat a bit because in the past we were members of a voluntrary organization and we had a rather good relationship. I learned that she is thinking of an early retirement because of the new situation here, so perhaps she will be more open to "close" that matter. The person that initialy handle that matter ( from our side) is not here any more and i know that they didn't go well together. Perhaps this new round of negotiation will be more fruitfull.

As for meeting half-way, Lucia is very to the point about what might mean that

Many thanks to all of you for the great ideas.

Will let you know

 

[arabella]

In relation to 38.2, I believe this can indicate that right is actually on your side, that you shouldn't doubt in going ahead, despite what appears to be unsurmountable opposition and an impenetrably defensive wall. Have no doubt because you are in the right.

Thinking what that could mean in this case, it has occurred to me that in many countries the responsibility for maintenance or failure of the system falls to the public company if the fault occurs on their side of the meter. That is, if the broken pipe was on your side of the meter then you would need to be aware and responsible, however, if the pipe is on the opposite side of the meter, the fault is the company's. Having said that, any water company I've ever known, even in Europe, allows the customer at least one "explosion" gratis. So, if you haven't had problems before this, it is obvious you are a good customer and, even if the broken pipe is on your side of the meter, the Company should absorb the cost, at least once.

 

[lucia]

Having said that, any water company I've ever known, even in Europe, allows the customer at least one "explosion" gratis. So, if you haven't had problems before this, it is obvious you are a good customer and, even if the broken pipe is on your side of the meter, the Company should absorb the cost, at least once.

I'm tittering here... Arabella, there is Europe and there is Southern Europe - they are a little different. For clues see palm greasing comment above!



Lucia

 

[patro]

hi maremaria,
I want to pinpoint only something about this thread and it's interpretation.....

Hi all..................
I asked Yi “ what is the best way to proceed toward the resolution of the matter “ and got 46. My first impression is that I have to go straight to the Mayor. Its funny because his office is one floor up from the water company and since a image of 46 is stairs I thought Yi says “go upstairs" yes?

46 is just fine and you just know the meaning... and the meaning regarding your situation!!! you just start to act like it!!!

Based on that interpretation I gave, I also asked
“ What best to say to him” and got 38.2.4.6 > 24

the second answer is in fact... only related to the major... and not with something else. it told you... you were wrong by the first interpretation of 46!!!
consider that the second question, was born directly from the first incorrect interpretation of hex 46!!
hex 38 also known as contrast.... also can simply mean acting opposite or do the opposite... that's all... and you simply just do it!!!
in this case 38 means "no"... no related to... that you will not speak with him as next!!
I know that the IC is complicated... and any answer must be analyze... but from time to time the IC can also answer with a simply no or yes!!!
I'm sure you will disappoint with what I wrote!!
you must remember that the IC when it give you an answer... does not only consider the question.... but it consider your point of view about the question and your psychologically status and more!!!
hope to help!!

 

[maremaria]

Arabella, I hear you and what you say sounds logical but Lucia knows how things work in our regions. The lawyers we asked when the problem occurred told us its not “wise” to go them to court. Why ? because it will take about just 2,5-3 years for the first hearing and then they have the “right” to cancel the hearing for 2 times. They advice us to find a solution out of courts and this is what we try to do. I know for what I’m responsible and I know were they are responsible but the problem is that they don’t accept their responsibility at least on papers because the mayor at a meeting in the past admit it. I deserve a big discount from the amount of waterter went lost. Moreover I pay taxes to the country and to the city and part of that money have been spend to advertisements, flyers, salaries to make a system to save water and there is someone ( us) who spends tones of water , during a time that fines were imposed for overconsumption and they do nothing.
They know taht, bu also they know that the time to solve such a matter in courts takes 5 years ( an average number) and they know that sooner of later citizen are fed up and stop the procedures but this is not right.


Patro,
I won’t go straight to the mayor, I promise Yes that was my initial though to go and but nowdays I’m trying to make an agreement with those people working in the lower stairs and let them go to him and ask him to sign. So , step by step , having that 38 > 24 reading into my mind. Will let a bit evolve for a while and made another reading in the future .

 

[willowfox]

It seems that the mayor is not that enthusiastic to help you, anyway, the text of 46 suggests seeing the boss, but then goes on to say that you will find a resolution to your problem if you go south, Athens.
Is the boss of the water company in Athens or perhaps its suggesting seeing your MP, parliamentary government representative for your area.

 

[arabella]

Lucia, Maremaria, I hear you -- having lived in rural Andalucia where gypsy law seemed the law of the day. My own ally in all things complex was a friendly attorney and "local hero" who charged nearly nothing if you would just "pasa por aqui" and walk around town having coffee in various sidewalk cafes for whatever time required. Eventually, he would talk to somebody who would pass the word and things would transpire -- who knew how. A friend like him is indispensable if you can make such an alliance. The mayor doesn't sound like the right one. Anybody else on hand?

 

[laylab]

I'm afraid dear Ginny in the Southern regions where Maria and I are talking about it is more likely to be meeting them with a bribe - a bit of palm greasing as they say lol!

Lucia

I'm originally from the southern USA...sooooo true.

 

[maremaria]

It seems that the mayor is not that enthusiastic to help you, anyway, the text of 46 suggests seeing the boss, but then goes on to say that you will find a resolution to your problem if you go south, Athens.
Is the boss of the water company in Athens or perhaps its suggesting seeing your MP, parliamentary government representative for your area.

The Boss is the Mayor since he is the only one can sign for the discount but he can be influenced by other members of city council...

About south, then only i can think of is an independent organization ( sort of ) that helps citizens. I have already contacted with them and in their files I have read that they have solve such problems with success.

we will see

Thanks Wfox

 

[ginnie]

It doesn't seem right . . . and you feel you have your rights . . . and we are all entitled to our rights. Beware of taking an attitude pf standing on your rights, however, and making enemies out of people who could help you or who are in a very good position to help you.

Bureaucrats are just other people, after all. They react like people, too. There is always something automatic about the way systems operate. It's not as if they have singled you out personally to make your life miserable.

 

[maremaria]

I see your point Ginnie. Line 38.6 helped me to calm down a bit and keep in mind its advise. From me side, i'll try to work towards a win-win approach. I don't need reassurance from them that I have a reasonable claim . No need to fight for that just for a satisfactory resolution.

 

[ginnie]

Win-Win Approach

I'll try to work towards a win-win approach.

Great! Yi says it is possible, so go for it!