Quagmire

[TygerChild]

I really don't know what to make of the I Ching.

I understand that it reflects my unconscious. I tend to think this rather more than that I am engaging with some kind of entity. However, sometimes it seems so spooky that my feeling takes me more towards suspecting it is some kind of spirit. And sometimes, I must admit, I get quite disturbed by obsessive and overwhelming feelings.

One major question I have is: When I pose a question, do a reading, the hexagram that comes up, perhaps with ensuing changing lines ( or not), which mirrors the moment, and most probably relates to my own energies first and foremost......can quite soon afterwards seem to not reflect my mood at all...because my moods change so rapidly (this is a mental health condition). This seems to me to compromise the usefulness of any reading.

Often my readings on the same subject, with slightly varying questions - but only very slightly - can be very different. Why is this? How can this be?

I don't think I am quite guilty of repeatedly asking the same question of the I ching in a way that would, for instance, get me a slapped risk via Hexagon 4. This has not often happened. Although maybe there have been times when I have been confused by readings that have conflicted in my mind - and maybe those readings were an example of over-egging.

But I am talking on the whole, about spaced out readings over time which have resulted in very different responses.

I know that relationship readings can change as things develop - yet change quite so wildly?

Is this then a reflection simply of my rapidly cycling mood states? And if so, this does to me seem to rather castrate the power and significance and value of the readings? --at least for me, from a practical point of view?

I find the interpretations sometimes extremely hard to make out. Sometimes I seem to have enough of a lateral take on a reading to get it via the imagery, to see the angle or the level of the reading, to understand the meaning; othertimes I am totally flummoxed.

It is also true that a reading can be devastating, extremely disturbing and unwelcome; utterly indigestible. A reading can even send me into a horrendous tailspin, a daytime nightmare or lift my spirits to the point of dance.

And then, of course, if I do another reading which is more negative, I can collapse in a deep dark hole..maybe then of the quality of Chasms 29.

And sometimes what is being advised feels absolutely impossible for me to fulfil and not only that but it seems totally inappropriate in relation to the energy I presently am experiencing, and to the situation I have to deal with. By that I really mean 'inappropriate' and even 'unhealthy' in terms of my own energy dynamics at the time.

I could go on and on with this, but there's already too much here to work through.

I am in the middle of nightmare, in the middle of the night, (4.37am) the Sage just drops in and out, I feel the villain and the hero, and am not sure quite which trajectory is in possession of me. So, I rest my case once again. Confused, frustrated, frightened, stuck in paradox with no companions, of double mindedness, my head soaked, my axle broke, and now cut off at the bottom of this post.....and the reality is actually no one is there, no one cares, there ain't no mum and there ain't no Jesus to save me. Friendly universe anyone?

 

[Annamaria]

Dear wisewomen, i do not know if this can give you some consolation, but look within yourself and you Will be amazed what you Discover there, you are never alone in this universe if you realize that. Many Warm wishes, Annamaria.

 

[iams girl]

Dear Wisewoman,

It must be difficult to live with thoughts like no one is there and no one cares. You sound like you are trying your best and maybe even harder than humanly possible. Are there times you can think of when it was easier to see through things and is it possible to recreate that environment? Maybe Yi is saying there's no single right way. Maybe working on smaller decisions that you and Yi can agree on first will lend themselves to bigger decisions falling into place?

, Iams

"If you eat a box of fortune cookies, anything is possible."

http://www.fortunecookiemessage.com/archive.php?start=150

 

[Trojina]

It is also true that a reading can be devastating, extremely disturbing and unwelcome; utterly indigestible. A reading can even send me into a horrendous tailspin, a daytime nightmare or lift my spirits to the point of dance.

Then for pity's sake recognise that not only are you not in a strong enough state to consult Yi you can't see the answers clearly anyway and are catastrophising (sp ?)

Don't seek to blame the I Ching but take responsibility for your choice as whether you feel up to dealing with it right now. I don't think you are...will link to the 27 uc thread. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...ocus-for-Spiritual-growth&p=186900#post186900

I recognise this because there have been times I have had to stop consulting. It is not a good thing to do if you are in a hyper or neurotic state.

Okay we are all neurotic but there are times when like I said over there body work is healthier for you than mental questioning and worrying about spirituality.



In my view good activities for panic/neurotic/ depressive states are

gardening
cooking
cleaning
crafts...art
knitting, sewing,
walking
tidying up



Especially good are what are called 'flow activities'. These are repetitive activities that allow your mind to drift whilst your hands are occupied. They may be dull but they are soothing, very soothing. If I was in very poor shape knitting is helpful. If only I could knit something that isn't a scarf it would be good.

I am in the middle of nightmare, in the middle of the night, (4.37am) the Sage just drops in and out, I feel the villain and the hero, and am not sure quite which trajectory is in possession of me. So, I rest my case once again. Confused, frustrated, frightened, stuck in paradox with no companions, of double mindedness, my head soaked, my axle broke, and now cut off at the bottom of this post.....and the reality is actually no one is there, no one cares, there ain't no mum and there ain't no Jesus to save me. Friendly universe anyone?

As others have said you are never alone and IMO of course there is Jesus.


But I don't think dwelling on all this spiritual stuff is good for you right now and would like you to go and clear the clutter in your room or in your garage and do lots of tasks....anything to give your mind a break and get your body calmed into doing ordinary earth activities. Sounds like you need to ground yourself for the sake of your health.


Actually what other good grounding activities are there ?

 

[Trojina]

ps. I don't think meditation is good when in these states. Infact it can makes things worse.

When mentally unwell I would say cleaning your cupboards and going for a walk is better than meditation.


Guru Trojan



Too much meditating is bad for people living ordinary life...we are not cave hermits. Limit meditation right down to 10 mins a day and bake some bread or something instead. Or maybe take some simple voluntary work of some kind.

 

[TygerChild]

ok. OK. Will go and scrub the dog.

 

[Trojina]

You have a dog ? Photograph please. We like to include pets on this forum.

 

[Trojina]

ok post a photo of the dog after it's been scrubbed

plus photographic evidence of all the tasks you completed today instead of worrying about the I Ching

 

[Trojina]

It is also true that a reading can be devastating, extremely disturbing and unwelcome; utterly indigestible. A reading can even send me into a horrendous tailspin, a daytime nightmare or lift my spirits to the point of dance.

And then, of course, if I do another reading which is more negative, I can collapse in a deep dark hole..maybe then of the quality of Chasms 29

I also wanted to say, since I recognise how readings might send you into tailspin is to recognise the 'voice' we hear the answer in is the voice of our own Super Ego...or like the internalised voice of our parents.

If we have strict, critical or unforgiving parents then we are going to hear the voice of Yi that way since we kind of subconsciously hand authority to Yi. So when answers send you into despair or elation, just calm down and remember what you 'hear' is not always what Yi says.

An experience I have related many times that bought this home to me was with 62.1...'small bird flying to high'. One day a long time ago I cast 62.1 and took it as blame, as implying arrogance on my part and so on . Later (whilst cleaning) I heard a line from a song that was on the radio and suddenly I heard the 'voice' of 62.1 a whole new way . It was a Donovan song, the line was "Take care how you fly my precious, you might fall down." and it was sung tenderly....and I realised the message could be tender even in seemingly harsh answers.

So maybe when you next get a harsh answer or an answer that seems a judgement on you try to put those words into the mouth of someone who only cares for you. Then you might hear it differently.

The problems you are having is that you are hearing all of Yi's judgements through the filter of your own expectations of judgements and non acceptance and so on. Maybe try to make each answer sound kind in intent.


Hehe may be a challenge with 29.6......but if 62.1 can be a tender and kind message then maybe they all can ?

 

[Trojina]

I also thought we needed a thread like a resource for people feeling like you feel now wisewoman...iams girl started this one but it got lost so I resurrected it http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?17962-Energy-focus-positive-space

hoping others will share how they got out of dark holes and quagmires

 

[TygerChild]

Here you are Trojan. That's me sitting on top.

 

[TygerChild]

Thanks for this. People can be very misleading in the way they present themselves. The curious and main difficulty that I am aware of is how I am extremely sensitive, feel things deeply, react accordingly, get a kick back from the others who see the effect as emanating from my evil self, and then react again until I have lost track of any accurate sense of the nature or quality of the original trigger which in fact may not have been quite so acutely meaningful as it was first felt.
By this time we have the Third World War.
Misperceptions everywhere.

 

[sooo]

Here you are Trojan. That's me sitting on top.


View attachment 1079

Holy moly, what a dog! Is that really you sitting on top, is that really your dog? Or maybe a dog from your childhood, or was it just pinched off the net?

I do think some people, at least at certain points in their life, are better off without consulting the Yi. And I agree about meditation and how it can attempt to force a state of mind which winds up being less healthy than a nice walk in the park. Exercise, like the walking or bike riding kind, can be more therapeutic than casting a dozen self-reflective contemplations, imo. Too much mind and not enough physical exercise can get us out of whack. I've found cooking (or baking) can being very balancing too, especially if you get to share it with others.

Lastly, I think we need to learn how to turn down the urgency and drama, and ease up on our self-perfectionism sometimes. I made it a goal of mine, some 14 years ago, to accept my imperfections, because I was driving myself crazy with too much self-reflection. To much focus on me, too little on the magic happening all around me.

Just some thoughts.

 

[TygerChild]

Photo of practical, earthing activities.

'Egg boiling accident'

 

[TygerChild]

yes I am far too sensitive and intense for my own good. and for the good of others. and for the good of the environment. the planet. the universe. bit of humility hex 15 is what I need...

this is SO fascinating though isn't it?

 

[Trojina]

Photo of practical, earthing activities.

'Egg boiling accident'

View attachment 1080

is this you showing how cooking is not a grounding activity for you.



re the dog, you were kidding and you don't have a dog is that right ? Well IMO there is nothing better for mental health than a sane dog. Mine often kept me sane since whatever intensities were going on I had to go for a long walk each day, and all the other care activites dogs involve.

People can be very misleading in the way they present themselves. The curious and main difficulty that I am aware of is how I am extremely sensitive, feel things deeply, react accordingly, get a kick back from the others who see the effect as emanating from my evil self, and then react again until I have lost track of any accurate sense of the nature or quality of the original trigger which in fact may not have been quite so acutely meaningful as it was first felt.
By this time we have the Third World War.
Misperceptions everywhere.

Another piece of unsolicited advice. If you have any I Ching books that drone on and on about quelling the 'inferior' ego parts or whatever please donate them to charity or keep them on the shelf as a curiosity. Such books IMO replace what Yi says with what they say. Such books are okay as an interesting take but not to live your life by or understand Yi's answers by IMO.

Bradford often says it's character not any spiritual 'do do' that Yi talks about (you know, what he said in another thread) And whilst I personally do believe in much of what he would call 'do do', I do agree that much of the stuff on 'spirituality' and the ego and all that are pretty superfluous to the much more solid advice Yi can give a person.

Last night I dreamed I had very long arms, so long that I could wrap them around myself and feel what it was like to be loved by me. It felt pretty good actually. It felt very reassuring. These anti ego books have the side effect of making people disapprove of themselves so much they barely believe they have a right to live. If you are alive then you can take it that you are in fact part of all life. Where else could you be ? You sound like you feel you are always asking for love that isn't there, but, and I know it's getting to be a cliché the first one you have to love is yourself......then your dog....or cat.

Yi is often literal and direct and such writers often don't take account of that IMO.

yes I am far too sensitive and intense for my own good. and for the good of others. and for the good of the environment. the planet. the universe. bit of humility hex 15 is what I need...

I suspect here you are thinking 15 is about being humble and self effacing ? It isn't just that at all. Hex 15 is about neither being more nor less than what you are in your own mind. It's about integrity. Neither debasing yourself and your abilities nor exaggerating them. Right now you seem to think the I Ching tells you to be lesser in some way as if you had to be less of who you are. I've seen it in all your threads. A mistaken assumption possibly from all these anti ego books such as those by Carol Anthony and others ?

.

 

[sooo]

One boy's do do is another girl's faerie dust.