Question, can anyone help answer it

[jen088]

I just started studying the I Ching, and I don't fully understand it yet. I have a question that I want to know if anyone can help me answer since I am not knowledgable enought yet to use the I Ching.

I have been dating a guy for almost 6 months now, long distance relationship. I am completely in love with this man. My question is will we get married? If we will be married, when will he be sure of his feeling for me, that he knows he wants to marry me?

 

[joang]

Welcome, Jen088.
You don't have to be knowledgeable before you begin to use the I Ching; you learn best by doing.

One thing that will be a big help, however, is learning how to focus your questions on what you really need to know, and word them so that the I Ching can give you a direct and intelligible answer. There is help available right here:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/practical_I_Ching/guide_introduction.html

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/practical_I_Ching/top_10_questions.html

After you choose your questions, there are easy on-line ways of casting an oracle without having to learn how to use coins, yarrow stalks, etc. Here is a nice one that gives you a free 30-day trial:

http://www.sundialler.com/yi_jing/index.html

A Google search will turn up others if you want something more simple. When you get your answers, if you need help interpreting the lines, there are many experienced and knowledgeable folks here who can help.

JG

 

[jen088]

Thank you for the information. That definately helps. Can you tell me how do I distinguish what the I Ching is trying to tell me about my question?

 

[joang]

What I do is, first look at the name of the hexagram I receive. Sometimes the answer is right there. If not, then it at least suggests to me the overall context of the situation.
Then I read the Judgement and Image. If there are any moving lines, i.e., a yang line changing to yin or vice versa, I pay particular attention to what that says. And then I read the Judgement and Image of the secondary hexagram that results from the changing line(s).

Somewhere in all of that, something will usually resonate with me, and I intuitively know that is my answer. I believe it is usually necessary to be serene, sincere and receptive in order to 'get' what the Oracle is saying.

Naturally, there will often be some things that don't resonate at all. That's to be expected. After all, the I Ching cannot re-write itself and edit out whatever doesn't fit with my particular question.

If nothing resonates, and the answer doesn't seem relevant to the question, I take it to mean that either the Oracle does not want to answer that particular question, or there is something more important it wishes to convey.

Don't be afraid to try, Jen088. Perseverance furthers.

jg

 

[wanderer]

Jen,

Welcome to the I Ching and its discussion. It can be a lifetime friend if you let it.

I know that you want an answer from the I Ching, and you will get one. But keep in mind that this is a matter of trust. If you love this man, you have little choice but to trust him to do the right thing. Also it is wise to have trust in the cosmos to do what is best for you. If that is marriage, that would be great. If it is not marriage, it still will be for the best.

This all may happen in a time frame that you want and expect, but it also may be in a time frame that is unexpected. Do not fret. All things happen in their own time.

And finally, do not use force in opening your future. Enjoy the journey, it is the only journey that we get.

 

[cal val]

Hi Jen...

Here is a good introductory site for a beginner that I think our friend, Luis, found for us:

http://www.eclecticenergies.com/iching/introduction.php

On the left is a very handy menu that allows you to obtain a reading three different ways.
<BLOCKQUOTE>1. You can use a computer generated virtual "coin toss" which gives you your choice of Chinese trading coins, American pennies or Eurocents, or

2. You can use your own real coins, and it will calculate your hexagram for you if you prefer, or

3. If you prefer writing down your lines yourself, if say, for instance, you use the yarrow stalk method, it will calculate your hexagrams from the lines you input.</BLOCKQUOTE>
And it includes an interpretation for the hexagrams and the lines.

Of course, once you have your reading, many of the members here will be happy to help you apply it to your question and offer additional input from their own experience.

Enjoy!

Love,

Val

 

[ninepatch]

Hello All -

I am brand new to Yi Jing, but was introduced to its concepts many years ago in college. I spent all of last evening and most of today reading every post and part of this website. What a wonderful thing the net is!!

I went to ecclecticenergies.com and in the process of "seeing how it worked" in anticipation of asking a question on the next go round, I got one heck of a surprise. The results came back in an astounding response to the most important question I have in my life right now.

A little context: By the necessity of life circumstances, I have always been a strong, independent, self-supporting woman. Seven years ago my life shattered and I retreated from the outside world. A few weeks ago an event ocurred which opened my eyes to where I would find my answers - I had to return to what I know - read, research, study, seek the information that would help me unlock the answers I already possesed but had lost the path to finding. In doing this I read once more about the Yi Jing and found you.

My resultw wer 57 changing to 49. Please forgive me if my nomenclature is wrong, but I just ordered a book last night and I doubt it will arrive today

.

Most of it I understand, it is so uncannily on target. Comments on two of the changing lines I don't quite understand.

49.2 53 "In instances like this it is necessary to trace these things back to the most secret recesses, in order to dermine the nature of the influences to be dealt with. This is the task of the priests; removing the influences is the task of the magicians." Who are the priests and magicians?

49.6 48: "A man's understandin is sufficiantly penetrating. He follows up injurious influences into the most secret corners. But he no longer has the strength to combat them decisively. In this case any attempt to penetrate into the personal domain of darkness would only bring harm." It's the last sentence that I don't understand. How can I become fully conscious if I don't confront the dark side of myself?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I know I have begun a long journey, of which these are only the first steps, but I was so blown away by these results I just HAD to bring them here for clarification.

Thanks,

Beth

 

[candid]

Hi and welcome, Beth.

If I understand your reading, your change lines are 1, 2, 4 and 6 of 57. This would look as follows:

57.1
57.2
57.4
57.6

Changing or relating to 49

57.2
Priests represents the ability to uncover secrets within yourself concerning the answers you are seeking. These answers are often hidden beneath years of past experiences, often out of self protection. A priest is someone you can confide in with secure confidence. The priest then is able to discover what is hidden in you. The magician is then able to transform these discovered secrets by bringing them out of the darkness and into the light of your understanding. This of course is all metaphor, symbolic of your own inner abilities.

49.4
This assures your success, and your results satisfies the spiritual, the relational and the practical.

57.6
You are now able to follow up these discoveries into the most secret corners of your mind and experiences. Once brought into the light these things lose their power of suggestion over you. However a word of caution is added here: You must be satisfied with small gains. Penetrating these dark issues takes much time and effort. It is best not to pursue the matter beyond what is healthy for this time. To persevere steadfastly into this domain could create more confusion then before you started. Be satisfied with small gains.

Congratulations on 49. It appears big changes will result from your discoveries.

Hope this helps.

C

 

[cal val]

Beth...

Welcome welcome welcome...

I just used the Yi quite unwittingly to do what you're doing now... access those deep corners. And it has been the most fantastic journey.

May I recommend along with the use of the Yi a good Jungian or cognitive behaviorial psychologist. The latter is a really quick way to jog the bricks of those walls we build within around those dark places. That's who the priests and magicians are. The professionals who can help us exorcise our demons.

I just today confronted a demon and I'm going to be posting about it momentarily in the 1.5 thread.

You got a really great reading. I wouldn't worry about the 57.6. I think that just means it's going to hurt a bit. But you already knew that...right?

Love,

Val

 

[ninepatch]

Candid and Val -

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights with me. I feel much better about 57.6 now

A very dear friend of mine used to say "Pain is inevitable, misery is optional." I feel in my heart this reading is telling me the misery has passed and I have what it takes to face the pain.

Beth

"When all else fails, Breathe!"

 

[candid]

Breathing is good.

I agree with your dear friend. Pain happens. And there's always a way to benefit from misfortune. If you can truly embrace that, there's nothing that will not further you.

 

[gene]

Hi Beth

I am very enticed by what Candid has to say about these lines. It jogged my understanding somewhat on a sometimes difficult hexagram for me. What I write below I believe goes beyond the context of your question and is not meant to answer it. I think Candid did an excellent job of that. I am noticing the two lines you did NOT receive were 3 and 5. Since you are new to the Yi to a certain extent, (even so maybe you already know this, but...) In the I Ching, line 2 and line 5 are the central lines. As such they are considered more balanced. Lines 3 and 6 have progressed beyond the center and as such, they have become excessive. (usually anyway.) Since the hexagram in general, is about penetration, (among other things), in line 3 the excess shows as repeated penetration. This can have a debilitating effect in that we ponder an issue over and over again, and never come to a conclusion. The idea is that once the subject has been sufficiently mulled over, it is time to act, and continued pondering can be a coverup for the fear of actually doing something. In line 6 we have the same thing. Excessive use of penetration, or pondering. Here however, the issue is even worse because the person no longer has the strength to combat the issues that are brought forth. As a result, the following hexagram is 58, where it is said, the superior person gets together with friends for discussion. No longer a head trip, but actually out socializing. The structure of the hexagram is something as follows. The first line, as is normal, is premature. Therefore, it has to be content with the continuance or perseverance of gentle penetration. Practice must continue for some time. In the second line, central, work is actually accomplished, and some things are corrected. In the third line, this becomes excessive, and a caution is given to make a decision. In the forth, we actually change our tears into joy. In the 5th, which is central and correct, we are able to bring about changes. (see hexagram 49, revolution and reformation) So things progressively get better throughout the hexagram with the exception of the 3rd and 6th lines. In many hexagrams the sixth line means the conditions of the hexagram have passed on, and the line gives a hint of a transition into the following hexagram. So, that will give you just a little insight, perhaps not into your question, but the interrelationships of the lines in the hexagrams.

Gene

 

[jen088]

One of the consistant answers that I have been getting, in refrence to the relationship that I am currently in, is that misfortune will come in the 8th month. This could be referring to March, since that is the 8th month of our relationship, or August, being the 8th month of the year. Can anyone help me understand any of this?

 

[bradford_h]

Hi Jen-
Without going into a lot of detail about the symbolism of the twelve moons, this line means simply that it is time to work on making your progress - it is not a time to step back and review your progress. Focus on the tasks at hand.
Hope this makes sense.
brad

 

[cheiron]

Brad

Perhaps another day in another place you will talk obout the symbolism of moons... I for one will be all ears!

--Kevin

 

[jen088]

Thanks for the help Brad, that definately makes sense considering the whole situation, which is far too lengthy to go into

 

[gene]

Hi Jen

Another way of saying this, misfortune in the eighth month is simply saying, work on the situation now. Don't procrastinate.

Gene

 

[ninepatch]

Gene -

Thank you for your comments on my questions. They were very enlightening for me. I've relaxed and reread the text that was provided from EclecticEnergies.com (several times

), combined it with the information so generously shared here, and am coming to a feeling of "ownership" of this reading. It is a good feeling.

Your breakdown of the functions of the lines was great - made notes in my Yi journal about them. You didn't say anything specific about line 4. If Line 1 is premature, what is line 4 as the first line of the upper trigram?

Peace

Beth

 

[gene]

Beth

Yes, I didn't delineate as well as I should have. Partly due to brain spasms and partly time restraints. Just to increase the size of the nutshell a little bit, I might mention a few more things.

First, line one and six are considered outside the main body of the hexagram. The nuclear hexagram, which consists of lines 2,3,4, and lines 3,4,5 gives a hint as to an inner or hidden meaning for the hexagram as a whole. For the most part you don't need to worry about it because the meanings of the lines are built on this as well as the hexagram as a whole. Sometimes it will give you a little deeper insight though. Lines one and six of course, are not part of the nuclear hexagram. Therefore line 1 is considered to be early, but of course the meaning of the line is still vital in a reading...and line 6 has gone beyond the structure of the hexagram. Therefore, line one often shows premature action, and line 6 shows action that is too late, or creates conflict with the ruler of the hexagram, usually line 5. Lines 3 and 4 are in both trigrams of the nuclear hexagram, so they are in some ways very unsteady. Line 3 often shows someone who is trying to get into the upper hexagram, (improve his/her lot in life), and can easily be struck down by those in authority. Line 3 is often a place of danger. Line 4 is often a person who has surpassed the danger, and line 4 can be a solution to problems encountered in line 3. On the other hand, line four is in close proximity to the ruler, usually line 5. Therefore his actions are very well scrutinized, and any attempt to surpass the ruler, or usurp power can put line four in great danger also. In hexagram 57 line four is not in so much danger, because it is a yielding line, (very submissive to the ruler), and the ruler is strong, (a yang line), and does not fear line four. Both are in their correct places.

To keep things short so people can/will read...I will stop here, and start again with a new message.

Gene

 

[gene]

Hopefully, I can keep this short, and I will do something I don't normally do, show an example of a reading. Of course, the reading may be incorrect, but this is my best judgment on it, just to give an idea. The hexagram in question is again 57. The question was that a certain man had an interest in a certain lady that seemed to be interested back, but also seemed to have had bad experiences in the past, and wasn't ready to jump into anything. The question was, "What does the lady want me to do?" The answer, 57, line 1, 5,6, changing to 11. Since there are multiple changing lines, I look to the meaning of the hexagram as a whole for the main answer. Also to the relating hexagram, but won't worry about that for a moment. In the W/B version, the meaning of the hexagram as a whole isn't as clear. The Alfred Huang version however, has for the meaning of this hexagram, "proceeding humbly." With just that I took it to mean that the lady wants him to continue with his wooing, but not proceed too quickly. She wants plenty of time to make a choice. Another meaning for this hexagram is "The Gentle." No strong action here. Be very gentle with the lady and don't push. Since the first line was changing, the slowness of the process was emphasized. Line 1, being premature, indicates that one must persevere, in gentleness, of course, the meaning of the hexagram, making a vigorous advance inappropriate, yet at the same time, the gentleman must be resolute in his decision to slowly and cautiously pursue the lady. Line 5 reemphasizes this. With perseverance, proper perseverance, eventually, sorrow disappears. The beginning has not been good, because the gentleman must gradually win the lady's heart, all the time facing possible rejection along the way. However, after the beginning, a period of time passes, and things take a turn for the better. And before the end, another period of time, (in the commentary it says three days), the commentary says good fortune. Line 6 reiterates that the slowness and the gentleness can be carried too far, and if little or no action is eventually taken, there will be no further to go. A person must find the right balance between gentleness and strong action. Proceeding humbly, if done too humbly, robs one of their self confidence. Hexagram 11 is a beautiful followup, and/or background to the situation.

If anyone thinks this interpretation isn't correct, please let me know your thoughts on it. Misinterpretation is always a possibilty.

Gene

 

[cal val]

Gene...

When you first tried to explain the lines and their relationships to me, I was dumbfounded... overwhelmed. And I have been studying it since...spending a lot of time in the Great Treatise, and it's gradually coming to me. But this post above is like a 1000 watt lightbulb for me. I've been understanding all the implications of the 1st and 6th lines lately, but this climbing from the lower hexagram into the upper trigram analogy of yours has just opened a whole new world of understanding for me.

THANK YOU immensely for taking the time to share this.

Love,

Val

 

[ninepatch]

Gene -

Once again, thank you for your generous spirit in sharing all of the wonderful information about lines and their relationship within the Hxs. Anything that can further my grasp on the underlying structures of the hxs is like water to my neophyte's brain.

I have, in fact, read Hillary's information about the context and changes hxs on her Advanced page. I asked a direct question of the Yi and built the sheme of optional hxs, just as an exercise to see where it may take me. Hillary's information is so incredible!

Also, thank you for the wonderful piece on 1/2 and 63/64. Even as a novice, I found it readable, clear and very relevant. I, too, think it echoes of "The Hero's Journey." While there was much I didn't understand, I can appreciate the amount of work such a piece of writing takes - my hat is off to you for doing it, and for sharing it with others.

Peace

Beth

PS: Can I send you a cheesecake or something?

Mine is pretty wicked.

 

[ninepatch]

OOPS! Sorry Kevin, that was your piece on 1/2 63/64 that I found so wonderful. Mia culpa, mia culpa, maxima mia culpa!

Peace

Beth

 

[cheiron]

Hi Beth

(Grin)

I am just pleased that you read it and got something from it? I had to cut a lot of corners to keep it short... Sorry, that would have made it hard going.

Thee are no such things as ?stupid questions? when it comes to the Yi Jing ? We are all learning ? So always ask or put up contrary ideas if you feel to.

There is a lot there I still don?t understand myself? It is part of a larger idea I am working on.

I have enjoyed and learned from your thread too,

Hope you stick around.

All the best

--Kevin

 

[Sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

PS: Can I send you a cheesecake or something? Mine is pretty wicked.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey! Nobody is taking that offer seriously! If Gene doesn't want it, I take it!

Luis

 

[ninepatch]

Luis -

Just those two beautiful smiles in the pic you included are worth a dozen cheesecakes at least. If I could figure out a way to ship them safely, my brother in Kansas and my cousin in Scotland would each weigh more than 300 lbs.

Peace

Beth

 

[ninepatch]

I've had an interesting reading with the Yi, and I want to toss my thoughts out for comment. I asked the Yi about a decision concerning a pet. I made a conscious decision beforehand that another question, pertaining to a longtime friendship, should wait for a time when I understood more. I think the Yi said "I'll steer this boat if you don't mind!" for lack of a better phrase.

My results were 33.5 to 56

I have at my disposal the W/B (from Eclectic) and the Coates (I printed it out

). I also chose to do the additonal Hxs that Hillary gives in her advanced page.

Well, I read the W/B last night, several times and couldn't feel comfortable on the pet question.

This evening I studied the entire group of Hxs with the W/B and the Coates. After about 2 hours I realized this reading was about the friendship primarily, with the pet answer tucked into the Contrast Hx 34.

My friend and I are both on distinctly different paths, albeit very necessary for each to grow. I understand the "retreat" - there is nothing to be said to her right now that won't bruise her, she's still like an open wound, but she's where she needs to be.

However, I couldn't wrap my head around "superior" and "inferior" which were everywhere in the reading. We are in every way equals and not superior to the other. Then it hit me - there is a place where Superior and Inferior are eaqual and necassary - the human heart. The Superior Vena Cava takes blood into the right ventricle from the upper body. The Inferior Vena Cava takes it from the lower body. It makes things clearer to me. The friendship is vital, but we are about different jobs right now as we should be.

My question - have I actually understood something here or am I pulling facts out to fit the reading? Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to give a full context.

Peace

Beth

PS: The pet question was answered in 34 - you have the power, temper it with compassion and you will know when the time is right. It's not right now.

 

[Sparhawk]

I was just kidding and I more than know I don't need any more pounds...

I just know you would if you could and that counts as actually tasting it.

Thanks!!

Luis

 

[cal val]

Hi Beth...

I think you intuited the situation with your friend quite accurately. It sounds like it's at least better for you if you take a holiday from the relationship right now... retreat in friendliness.

How old is your pet? I have an almost 23-year old whiney cranky boss of the feline persuasion here. I was ready to put him down recently because he was dying, and the Yi told me it wasn't time yet and that I could help him. There're a couple of posts about the experience somewhere around here in this forum. I asked them how I could help him. They told me to force feed him. I did. He not only pulled through, but he came back stronger than he'd been before he fell into the distress that certainly would have killed him.

The superior and inferior references get in a lot of people's way. If I were to rewrite the Wilhelm and Coates versions of the Yi, I might say "The man who responds appropriately to the situation," and "The man who doesn't have a clue," but that's a bit much verbage even for me... *grin*, so I think I'll just wait until something more compact comes to mind before I take on the grand task of rewriting the YiJing... *wink*

Love,

Val

 

[candid]

Ninepatch-

"Then it hit me - there is a place where Superior and Inferior are eaqual and necassary - the human heart. The Superior Vena Cava takes blood into the right ventricle from the upper body. The Inferior Vena Cava takes it from the lower body. It makes things clearer to me. The friendship is vital, but we are about different jobs right now as we should be."

That's fantastic!