Clarity,
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It seems that right here you have an answer to your question - or at least one answer!In many guides to the I Ching, there seems to be an emphasis on the importance of the wording of a question. How important is this really?
I have received meaningful answers that resonate for me, without a discrete question - or in spite of one.
You know, when I change my signature in a few days, you're going to look completely cuckoo. (This is supposed to represent a video camera, but I do see your point.)Mickey Mouse was at the well gathering ?
A few thoughts ....It's possible to consult without getting clear in your own mind first, .... However, it obviously leaves open more of a possibility that wishful/fearful thinking will bias your interpretation. ('It says someone is being obtuse. Clearly this must be a picture of her!')
Of course we need to consult when confused. But you can be in a confusing situation and still find clarity about what you need to know.* it might be that we're dealing with a confusing situation, or we're very confused ourselves, and 'clarity' is not possible - but I don't think that should preclude us for querying, nor does it preclude us from getting a useful response. Perhaps those are the times we most need to 'consult' the Yi?
Forget about Jung's introduction to Wilhelm's translation, here you have succinctly summarized the purpose for the I Ching and why it's been used all these years!You can be in a confusing situation and still find clarity about what you need to know.
when you do look at the words, a sensible first step is to cross out all the words that don't seem relevant to you. (For instance, if you receive Hexagram 10 and the tiger doesn't seem important, you can cross that out.)
Harmen said:In a way this is true, and at the other hand the word 'relevant' does not capture entirely what I meant in my lessons. It is more a 'feeling' kind of thing - the words that stir your feelings, emotions, aha! erlebnis etc., are more important than the words that don't do anything for you. If these other words really don't do anything for you, it can be okay to put these aside, either temporarily or indefinitely. You should not be forced to give meaning to words or texts that don't do anything for you. So, if the tiger really doesn't do anything for you, but another part of the reading does, or that other part can immediately be linked to your question or situation, it is permissible to put the tiger to sleep. Why do I think this is a valid approach? Well, I have seen it done in a few examples of early Chinese divination. And if they could do it, so can we.
if, looking at the words (in translation, that is), you find one whose meaning you don't know, no need to look it up; just make up a meaning for it.
harmen said:Again, 'just make up a meaning for it' does not entirely captive what I actually advocate, which is: a word, even though you don't know what it actually refers to, evokes an image, or a feeling, a memory etc. And that is something that you can work with. I even think this meaning can complement the actual meaning of the word when you feel the urge to look it up in a dictionary. But the latter is not a necessity to work with a text or word who's original meaning evades you. Sounds are symbols, and in ancient China, when they didn't know the meaning of a character, they substituted, or supplemented it with another character that sounded the same, looked almost the same, or corresponded with the meaning that the reader thought it had. So, I base this principle on the Chinese practice of tongjiazi 通假字: loan characters, homonyms, homophones, etc. But the most important thing is, that sounds can provoke images, scents, emotions, etc. It is my personal opinion that these experiences should not be ignored, they can be trusted and be used to your advantage.
But if someone wants to be entirely impressionistic, aren't there oracles that are purposely set up like that? Tea leaves? I have no idea.
What does Harmen do with 10 when he crosses out the tiger? I mean, "tiger" could end up being so metaphorical that it's barely recognizable, but don't you have to start there?
Hilary, in my mind, I can't take this notion much further than this - as you have. I'm not implying right or wrong, etc. Only that my sense of this and how I (not Harmen) understand 'asking question' is just - what? maybe more simplistic, or ??? I don't know really, it's just that I believe that how our hearts and minds interact with the Yi (and with the rest of the universe) and how the Yi or any oracle responds and answers us allows for all these types of queries.I think, in a way, we are both right.
(I wrote this before Hilary posted the response from Harmen, so what I say here may not be totally relevant, nor correct). I take issue with you here. I think you are presenting your impressions of Harmen's teachings, but he's not here to give 'his side' so we really only have one half of the picture, or more correctly, your impression of one half of the picture. That's not wrong (nor right); it just feels incomplete.Harmen's approach is different.
If Harmen were here he might answer that, but since he isn't we can only guess, assume, surmise, make up ... what he might do. Perhaps Hilary has more of a sense of this, I don't know. (See Hilary's post with Harmen's words, which might enlighten us about what he would do.)What does Harmen do with 10 when he crosses out the tiger?
Thanks for posting this - my comments in #13 crossed with yours in the virtual ethers, so they may not be entirely relevant now. Just disregard them if you need to.Harmen sent me a note - which I'm glad of
Sorry, should have glossed that. Or just 'experience' or 'the Aha! moment'."erlebnis" = adventure, per Google
I see what Harmen's saying about feelings, memories, and so forth - it's not that you don't teach that, Hilary, you often say (I think) that that's divination happening. You don't go nearly as far with it, though.
Would it be reasonable to pay attention to all of those things, but then also pay attention to the words, and make sure it aligns? If you stop with the impression (say it happens to be favorable), you probably shouldn't ignore the part where Yi explains how it's a pitfall this time.
Then there's the category of one-off readings, like where the hexagrams indicate clock time, or "beat the drum" merely reminds you you're about to leave the house without yours and today is band practice. You really can ignore everything else. But that's probably a pretty small percentage.
I generally think it's just easier to be simple-minded about this, and get in the habit of knowing what I'm asking for before I ask. That way I can mostly avoid barking up the wrong garden path without a paddle...Speaking of percentages, I wonder how many people who cast readings are good enough to be Harmens or Sorrells. I bet the overwhelming majority of us would end up down garden paths a lot.
Harmen said:Well, I have seen it done in a few examples of early Chinese divination. And if they could do it, so can we.
I like 'set it loose'!I've wondered about that from time to time. On the one hand, they were a lot closer to it in all sorts of ways (culture, language, outright creating it), and that has to have helped.
On the other hand, once they created it and set it loose it was the cosmos speaking, and at that point would they have struggled just as much as we do?
Actually, 'not going out of the gate from the courtyard' sounds to me like a warning against getting too stuck inside the question: 'I asked about x, so it can't possibly be telling me anything I need to know about y.' Or - another possibility - confining your question 'inside the courtyard,' as it were, by being too specific/narrow or including too many assumptions. 'Why is he deceiving me?' or 'What will be the greatest benefit of buying this?' or 'Why do I always fail?' - making it hard for Yi to show you anything outside the courtyard/question (he isn't deceiving you, there are no benefits to buying this, and you actually have quite a lot of successes you've forgotten about).What is the importance of clear questions?
60.2 - 3.
...
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These hexagrams seem to say that the question provides boundaries, limits, which are necessary for focusing, for bringing order out of the vast confusion of possibilities, but one need not stress about making one's wording precisely correct ("bitter measures").
Indeed, 60.2 seems to say the real problem about wording could be that over thinking what to ask and how to ask it might discourage a person for consulting the I Ching at all.
See https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?help/editor/#quote .(I don't yet know how to include a quote from a previous comment, but)
As I was reading down this thread (again arriving late to the party) I was pondering the Harmen v Hilary approach. I have used both methods and found, in the early days, when I was getting to know my way round divination that questions were an important part of gaining an understanding without my mind travelling down all of the highways and byways.What is the importance of clear questions?
60.2 - 3.
60. Limitations
Oracle
Measuring, creating success.
Bitter measures do not allow for constancy.
Things need to be articulated to make them more manageable, easier to take in and work with. Such measures, when they grow organically, reflect the natural rhythm of life and allow a fuller participation in its flow. Progress is made in small increments.
Individuals with measure live sustainably and flourish: groups who share measures and standards, who speak the same language, can reach agreements and build trust. But if anyone reacts to the measures as they would to a bitter taste - if they find them too hard to swallow - then they are not sustainable. This isn't a matter of traditions, principle or logic, but of human experience.
-Hilary
60.2
Not going out of the gate from the courtyard.
Pitfall.
3. Difficulty at The Beginning
The superior man brings order out of confusion.
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These hexagrams seem to say that the question provides boundaries, limits, which are necessary for focusing, for bringing order out of the vast confusion of possibilities, but one need not stress about making one's wording precisely correct ("bitter measures").
Indeed, 60.2 seems to say the real problem about wording could be that over thinking what to ask and how to ask it might discourage a person from consulting the I Ching at all!
however, as far as I see it it is not the clearness of the question that is important but the inner clarity or the intention that I set with each consultation that brings the biggest rewards.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).