Questions about separation from husband

[hulda]

Dear ICC friends,
I have been enjoying your threads for the last few months, and it has helped me gain some understanding as to how the Yi can help us make good decisions, especially at important crossroads in life. This is not to say I haven?t had fun with the lighter side of your threads! (Such as what happened to the pizza man!) In any case, I?m writing now to ask for your opinion on an issue that I have been working on actively for the last year: the separation or not from my husband and establishing a new relationship with another partner. To sum the situation up, I feel that for many years I have had a relationship with a person I respect and honor but with whom I have never felt totally in love. Last year two events brought me to realize I had to make strong decisions at this point. One was the fact that our teenage boy went into a crisis and hinted that he had homosexual inclinations. Though it was clear that this in itself was not a problem, I felt he needed to work his general depression before jumping to conclusions. I felt too, that the relationship his dad and I had was not helping matters. Another event was the fact that a person I had a brief encounter with 18 years before when I was having troubles w. my husband, came into the picture again and we realized we had a very strong attachment to each other. I won?t go into too much detail at this point, as I have requested readings from Hilary and received some very insightful answers that point basically to the idea that if I were to continue with the marriage I would have to accept the lack of passion and know, however, that there would always be support (Hex 19), that establishing a relationship with the other person would need to be preceded by my own development as a person (25). When asked about what it would be like for me to be a couple with D (the person), the Yi answered 11 changing to 8, with lines 4 and 6. The conclusion was that although not a bad scenario, I should not rely on the relationship w. D, but rather on myself. I have spoken to my husband about a separation, and in principle, he has agreed to one. We have talked about it being a gradual one. Yet things have not really happened, except for the fact that we have even less contact with each other on an intimate basis (actually none), and no real dialogue exists. It?s like we are in a limbo.
In this context, I have asked the Yi what is the next step to take in relation to my husband. The answer: 43 lines 2 and 6, changing to 13. I have also received 9 line 5, changing to 26 when I?ve asked what is the best way to separate from my husband. As to the person I am strongly attached to, I have gotten some answers that I find quite disturbing, namely36, line 1 changing to 15 when I?ve asked about the possibility of becoming a couple with him.
Any ideas will be very welcome. Thanks!

 

[hulda]

Hi,
Since I haven't gotten any comments on this post yet, I thought perhaps it could be because my questions weren't so clear. So here I am again. I'm especially interested in knowing your opinion about hexagram 43, lines 2 and 6 changing to 13 in relation to the process of separation from my husband. I gather I should talk to him about defining things, since, as I mentioned, we have already talked about a separation and he has agreed, but life seems to go on as usual except for the fact that we really are like house mates, being very civilized but w.o any real dialogue.
On the other hand, the answer I have gotten in relation to my strong feelings towards the other person (with whom I am in contact via e-mail, as he doesn't live in the same country), throws me back, 36, line 1, changing to 15. Could it be that I should be very discreet about it until I am fully separated? Does it augur something else? Is it pointing to a bad outcome in a permanent relationship I may have?
Perhaps something I didn't mention in the previous post is that as much as wanting to have a good deep relationship w. someone, I would not like to do anything that could affect my children negatively. When posed the question: What effect would the change in relationships have on my children?, the answer was: 43, line6 changing to 1.
Any comments anyone?
Thanks!

 

[nicky_p]

Hi Hulda,

Fisrt I'd like to say I'm sorry that you're going through a tough time.

I don't normally respond to posts to advise - mainly because I'm pretty new to I Ching and don't usually feel the confidence to know what I'm talking about!

But, your situation draws a couple of parallels with my own experiences - I've recently gone through a relationship breakup and am a daughter of a 'broken home' - so I thought I might share what I got when I read your posts and hexs.

First the question of how to proceed with your husband.
The judgement of hex 43 (I'm going to write everything out - more for me than anything else

):
Breakthrough. One must resolutely make the matter known
At the court of the king.
It must be announced truthfully. Danger.
It is necessary to notify one's own city.
It does not further one to resort to arms.
It futhers one to undertake something.

Line 2: A cry of alarm. Arms at evening and at night. Fear nothing.

Line 6: No cry. In the end misfortune comes.

From what you describe things have kind of been agreed with your husband that you should separate. But only 'kind of'. I think this is saying that you really do need to sit down and set some time aside to hash this out 'One must resolutely make the matter known at the court of the king'. Line 2 seems to point to it being in the morning or the evenings. I'm assuming that at least one of you works so this would probably the only time that you would potentially get together anyway.
You say that you 'respect and honor' your husband. I'm wondering whether he knows the full story though. Especially about your feelings for another. I know it would be tough but this is what I'm getting from it being 'announced truthfully'. I also feel this from personal experience. My ex-boyfirend split up with me because he felt that he might have strong feelings for another person. He was away in another country at the time so he really could have gotten away with not telling me if he had felt like it and whilst it was <u>really</u> tough to hear I am still sort of in touch with him (not in a romantic way!) and I did feel that he did respect me enough to tell me the truth. There is a 'danger' element to this though. Obviously I don't know whether he knows about your connection 18 years ago and I guess the I Ching is warning you to remember that the other person is going to be hurt. I know if it was me and I heard that you had met this guy all those years ago I would skrew my head with thoughts of 'has something been going on all that time' and 'was our whole relationship a sham' etc, you get the picture

I also think during such a time whilst obviously you have to be 'resolute' I think maybe 'It does not further one to resort to arms' is advising you not to go about it too strongly - to the point of harshness.
I know line 6 looks scary. I think here the I ching is saying this is going to be tough. Wilhelm in his commentary talks about how when you think that you have gotten to the crux of the matter and solved the problem you sit back and think 'oh, that was easy' and that is the time when you are most at danger. Something will be missed and the seeds of this 'evil' will grow. Obviously I don't think you'll sit there and think 'this is easy' but I do think you're being warned not to sit on your laurels and assume that everything has been understood first time round. Stress and distress has a funny way of making you forget what can seem to the other person a really important point if you know what I mean.

The relating hex - 13 judgement says:
Fellowship with men in the open.
Success.
It furthers one to cross the great water.
The persaverance of the superior [wo]man furthers.

I think this reiterates the importance of letting your husband know the full story. xx

This has similarities with your question to do with your children - hex 43 line 6!
'It is necessary to notify one's own city' I'm reading that your city here means your family. It's nothing that I 'know' as in I've seen it witten anywhere. Just a feeling. Which means (as with all of this

) I could be barking completely up the wrong tree!
I don't know how old your children are but I'm guessing from the crisis that your son is going through that they are at least teenagers and so at an age to at least understand to a certain degree. I was 11 when my parents broke up and I was actually away at bording school at that age. This meant that I never saw them argue or fight. Never a crossed word as when we were home it was happy time. Also my dad was in the navy so he was away a lot anyhow. This meant that when me and my sister were told that my parents were splitting up it was a complete bolt out of the blue! Then, because they felt that we knew what was happeining, they didn't feel the need to hide the friction anymore and all hell broke loose! Obviously at the time it was awefull but in a way it lead me to understand that mummy and daddy were definitely not suited to be together! They got back together and split up a couple of times before everything was finalised and we were involved in the whole process which brought some criticism from my grandparents. I can see where both sides come from. We were quite young and maybe some things weren't done the best of ways but then noone can say that they've behaved perfectly always and i have to say that it means that I've grown up always wanting the truth - even in it's not necessarily what I want to hear! You can't deal with what you don't know. And glossing over things or keeping things from people - even if you feel like it's being done to protect people's feelings - has a funny way of coming back round I've found. That's what I get from line 6 in this case anyhow.

The relating hex - 1.
The creative works sublime success,
Furthering through perseverance.
Well I take this hex when I get it to mean that if you follow the I Ching's advice in the first hex everything will be OK!

Your question about becoming a couple with the other person.
Judgement of hex 36:
Darkening of the light. In adversity
It furthers one to be persevering.

Line 1:
Darkening of the light during flight.
He lowers his wings.
The superior [wo]man does not eat for three days
On [her] wonderings.
But he has somewhere to go.
The host has occasion to gossip about [her].

Actually I take more from the image than the judgement in this case when it says:
The light has sunk into the earth:
The image of the darkening of the light.
Thus does the superior [wo]man live with the great mass:
he viels [her] light, yet still shines.

I think you're right about being discreet ('The superior [wo]man does not eat for three days On [her] wonderings'and 'he viels [her] light, yet still shines'). Maybe let the dust settle a little before persuing this new relationship. From what I see things are going to be tough enough without bringing in the stress of a new relationship - to yourself as well as your husband and children - i think it would be difficult to devote the right time and energy to setting up a 'good deep relatioship' with somebody whilst going through the distress of a marriage break up. I also think the I Ching is warning you about other people might think if it seems that you break up with your husband and immediately persue another: 'The host has occasion to gossip about [her]'.

I don't see it as all bad though:
Hex 15 Judgement:
Modesty creates success.
The superior [won]man carries things through.

This sounds to me as though if you leave it for a while to let the 'dust settle' and once everybody is a bit clearer about the situation then by all means persue away

Anyhow I think maybe I've prattled on enough

.
I hope that I haven't assumed too much or said anything out of turn. And I really do hope that you get everything sorted - it's tough when relationships end - even when you're the one who's decided to end it

Love
Nicky
xx

 

[hulda]

Hi Nicky,
Thank you so much for your perspective and your very sympathetic attitude! I've always wanted things to "work out" w. my husband, and let things ride until I just started feeling I couldn't go on like that anymore, kind of feigning things.
It's funny how by reading what you wrote things become clearer to me. On Monday my husband and I will have a session with the therapist that my son has been going to for the last year -as a result of the crisis-. I hope this will be the occasion to lay things out in the open, really in the open, not just halfway. I had talked to him four times about my profound feeling of frustration. In each conversation I gained a better insight as to what was going wrong. He said on one of the occasions his attitude when faced with adversity was stoicism. It wasn't until then that I came to realize that his stoicism is what had basically killed the relationship, as it just always meant pretending that things were in top shape when they weren't.
After our last talk, when he basically said he agreed to separate, I've been so exhausted emotionally, I just let things ride for a while. But it's time to define things again. I would be willing, if things become clearer and better defined for us, to give it a try.

Thank you so much again for your insightful comments!
Hulda

 

[nicky_p]

Dear Hulda,

I'm glad if I helped - thank you for posting back to me. This is the first time I've really responded to anyone's posts and was worried if it would come across right.

I hope everything goes well on monday with the therapist. My ex and I tried mediation (before he moved to a different country so not really about that). It did help because it meant that we both felt safe enough to really tell the truth cos if things got really heated then there was an impartial third party there to stand in. Sometimes in a stressed state you can say something thinking it's really clear and your partner just doesn't 'get' it. It helps sometimes to have someone there who can rearange your words for the other person to digest if that makes sense?

Anyway, hope that it's successful for you guys.

Love
Nicky
xx

 

[hitchhiker]

Dear Hulda,

I don't want to be interfering, but just to offer a thought if it helps. Feel free to take it or leave it.

I was involved once with a "stoic" sort of person. It ended some years ago with a lot of pain because the more I wanted to talk about our problems, the less he did. It is only now, years and a lot of meditation classes later, that I realised that people do what they can to protect themselves. Some of us do it by opening up all the cards, coming to forums like this, others do it by shutting down, not thinking about it. I don't think either one is right or wrong. Yes, I'm exhausted by stoically silent people too, but you might find the stoic types find it exhausting to talk all the time.

So I'm just suggesting you be open when working things out. Don't expect him to open up overnight after years of shutting down, and also be aware of your own need to talk as a way of working things out for you. It may not be the best way for him, especially after years of honing that stoic discipline. If you can meet halfway, it'll help. As a society, we tend to think of being open as being more truthful, than being silent. But sometimes people do what they do because it's what they know. They're not necessarily keeping things from you in the deceptive sense.

Okay, sorry if this isn't any of my business, and that this isn't anything about your Yi reading. I do wish you all the very best and hope something works out for you, whichever way it is. I know what it feels like to be stuck in a train that never seems to leave the station.

Best,
hh

 

[nicky_p]

Dear Hulda & Hitchhiker,

I completely agree with what hh is saying. Sometimes relationships can seem perfect on paper - share similar tastes, opinions etc - but they fall apart because of a mismatched methodology of communication. I don't think that 'stoic' people don't want to communicate - just that it's done in a different way than words - maybe body language or an inflection in the voice etc. (Maybe you can guess - I'm a talker!!

) Wouldn't it be easier if we were all telepathic - like that woman off star treck who can tell what people are feeling

(I am a student - watch too much daytime tele!

I guess it's a question of need. Is you're need to communicate borne from wanting to get things off your chest... or have your husband understand you.

Sometimes people are scared by emotion as well. I don't mean scared of feeling it but scared that when a person tries to comminicate with them and the communication is full of emotion they won't be able to process it in time. So they shut off - maybe go away and process the information in solitary so they don't feel self conscious when dealing with it.

My mum always tells me that if there's something I need to say - for whatever the reason, whether to just tell it or to pass it on - write it down. Maybe in a letter or something. That way you have the ability to read over and see where misunderstandings may crop up. And, the other person has time to digest and get back to you if they understand. And, if you realise that the need is just to express yourself and not actually communicate the letter can be shredded or burned - very theraputic when angry

Just a suggestion - hope it helps

Love
Nicky
xx

 

[nicky_p]

Just thinking back....

Maybe that could be a way of 'not resorting to arms' in your hex 43?

xx

 

[hulda]

Thanks Nicky and Hitchiker.

I HAVE resorted to writing. I've written letters that I haven't handed to my husband. I have read them again (a year later) and they still hold.
It took me TWENTY years (till March last year) to dare to say: "I would like a separation". I always felt at odds, because, as HH says, the marriage looked perfect on paper. But as the incident with the other person 18 years ago shows, not even then was the marriage good.
As a matter of fact, I was the one who promoted it actively. I always realized I had entered the relationship more from the mind than from the heart. I always felt there was this strange passivity on his side. It's like I was on a pedestal, the queen (I'm sure the men in this community will say: These women are just never pleased!). But there was no communication the way I needed it. No making decisions through dialogue. What school the kids went to, where we went on vacation, was up to me. Actually, even having kids was my decision. I think I just started feeling I was talking to myself. So, yes, nothing wrong w. stoicism, just hasn't been working for me for the last 20 years, and only now am I facing up to it. My kids are 18 and 15. The prospect of spending another 20 years in this regime depresses me. So I hope things will become better defined on Monday. Let's see.
As for the "other" person. I agree entirely w. the need to concentrate on one stage before moving on to another if there is one. And I am assuming that's what the Yi is telling me w. 36.

Thanks again for all your comments.
Hulda

 

[hitchhiker]

Oh dear, Hulda, it sounds like how it would've been for me if I'd stayed with my ex.

I hope something works out for you. Best of luck.

hh

 

[hulda]

Thanks, HH. The session on Monday I mentioned before was good. More centered on our boy, but things came up about the marriage and I'm feeling relieved to say the least.

I now have the feeling there's a new turn of events I'd like to comment on and ask you all for your opinion.

I asked a very general question (following Jesed's advice):

what is my future w. regards to my husband?

The answer. 1 line 2 changing to 13.

I asked the same question w. regards to the person I've talked about.

The answer: 13, line 2 changing to 1!

What does this symmetry mean? I was quite astonished!

Any comments on that anyone?
Thanks!

 

[jesed]

Hi Hulda

First, I want to enphatize something that you already know but is worth to say again: my comment is about the readings, and not about your real life; only you can contrast the reading with your real life.

Second, knowing only the readings, and not your real life, there is a high probability that what i will say would sound "off tune". I only hope that you won't feel judge or bad because of this message. But, if you feel I made wrong, just say it and I will apologize

Well. In the way I see:

a) 2 times you got 13 as related hexagram about your actual husband. Reunion. Not necesarly as couple, it could be as friend, but it could be also as a couple-reunion. But.... the question is: how willing are you to see your actual husband as real friend (couple or not couple)?

b) 2 times you got bad signs about the other man from the past (18 years ago, right?). 36.1 and now 13.2. It give too much to think about the correctness of the atraction. Not necesarly is about him (like.. he is not a good person), but about your atraction ("adverse fate" in 36.1; "Fellowship...on the basis of personal and egotistic interests" in 13.2)

Seems like the issue with your husband (with real causes on its own) is being mixed with the issue about this old partner. And the best thing to do is separate this 2 issues. Don't let the actual separation process with your husband start an unrealistic or unfair atraction with that old partner; neither that the actual atraction (realistic or not) have decisive influence in the way you resolve the issue with your husband.

Best wishes and happines to your heart

 

[nicky_p]

Dear Hulda,

I've found the advice that Jesed has given on forming a question very helpfull indeed.

I think that the symmetry in your answers is indicating that these situations are not independant. If you progess with one it affects the other.

I also find it astonishing when that happens... and the fact that these hexagrams feature in your original questions.

Love
Nicky
xx

 

[hulda]

Wow, Jesed, when I read your message I thought: This is it! 36 is not a warning about the person, but about the nature of the attraction. The way you put it sure makes sense to me. Taking things one step at a time.
Having others tell me sure helps.
Thanks for your insights
to you, Nicky too.

And, yeah, the Yi is something else!
Hulda