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Quick question about a paid membership

If there were an added paid membership on offer at Clarity, I would...

  • prefer it to be a small one, for maybe $5-$10/month

    Votes: 17 65.4%
  • prefer it to be a bigger service, for maybe $20-$40/month

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • not be interested

    Votes: 8 30.8%

  • Total voters
    26

hilary

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I think there's a middle way here. Not 'define the box and I'll fit into it for you' - not that lots of people don't make lots of money very systematically in exactly that way, but it doesn't interest me. The big objective with that kind of approach is to get away from work asap, so as to do something meaningful instead.

But also not, 'Here's what inspires me, here's what you're getting, and here's why you ought to like it.'

So I think it's more about creating something you feel energized and impassioned about and showing how that meets the needs of people interested in divination/the Yi/transformation.
I almost agree. I think it's about creating something I feel energised and impassioned about and that meets the needs of people interested in divination/the Yi/ transformation. And I think there's a need for a conversation to create the big magic purple 'and'.
 

fkegan

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Hi Hilary,

I notice you have made no comment upon your resulting hexagram in 9>>27. I notice because your every remark and comment focuses only upon the objective, external aspect of your Quest for IC Clarity. It is all about the crust and not about the soft inside of the loaf.

There remains a strong implication of a need to at least peek inside...What is it YOU are hungering for and how do you want it fed?

Hex 27 is a puzzle and many of its lines are just nasty, but it is a valuable bit of the Changes. Hex 27.1 in Wilhelm is just a drag, but it corresponds to the Sabian Symbol for a life-saving diagnosis by X-Ray machine (new, high tech magic in 1923 when the Symbols were born). Why does the Prince let go of his Magic Tortoise? Perhaps he is not feeling well.

It is your personal crisis which appears to be highlighted. The response to your various very objective and outer-directed threads and polls is that the ICC community cares and attends and seeks only guidance as to how exactly to manifest our support and affection for you whatever you would like. However, those hex 27 issues are not for external poking.

Folks here are your hex 7, the groundwater stored, the People's Army in reserve. But armies don't make policy or determine final goals--they just offer their all with trust in their commanders. It is the Commander-In-Chief who has the obligation to question and know what is the policy worthy of the entire Realm.

Frank
 

hilary

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I think the soft inside is evident in what I've written lately, and, more to the point, in what I've been doing for the past 8 years.

27 isn't so much of a puzzle. In a reading about reaching a financial goal - or a goal that's somewhat clumsily expressed in financial terms, anyway - it talks directly about those needs. It also encourages me to See the real needs that are driving this - which aren't material ones, as you know. They're the old familiar desires: to be of service, to be needed, to have people tell me and show me I'm being useful. These have been huge motivations for me since I was about 4.

My most recent, relevant reading was 'What now?' (Meaning, what now I've opened the floodgates, started the conversation...) I received 59 again, changing this time at 1 and 6 as well as 5. Looking at line 6 tells me I shouldn't get too far into this discussion. It feels to me as if I've exposed those soft innards, and now they're the object of 'external poking' from people saying, 'No, these emotions aren't real enough! This calling is fake!' And this triggers all kinds of reactions in me which I am not going to get into here, as they really, really do not lead anywhere constructive. So this is me leaving, going far away, and getting out of that discussion.

Your picture of the people here as army is sweet in a way, but, you know, it really doesn't work like that. If it did, everyone would be buying all I have to offer, and then buying some more to give to their friends for birthdays and Christmas. They don't - not because they don't know it would make me happy, or because I haven't issued clear enough 'orders' to do so, but because they don't want to, because they don't want these things. And this is exactly as it should be.

Class in 4 minutes - have to go.
 

fkegan

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Hi Hilary,

'What now?' (Meaning, what now I've opened the floodgates, started the conversation...) I received 59 again, changing this time at 1 and 6 as well as 5.

Hexagram 59.1,5,6 >> hex 19 Solution >>Coming Together as the overall organizational plan and transition to the next express and exhaust themselves while the roots from the prior fills in. The structure remains focus, the entire timing becomes the powerful process going forward of hex 19--transition and structure barrel ahead into the open space of the moment.

Armies aren't all that sweet, particularly reserves available for ancient Chinese draft into service. More importantly, they don't have simple intents like making their commanders day through their choices or purchase preferences. They simply are there, willing to obey orders as given and available to suffer the consequences of the orders they are given.

It is the commander who needs to consider what is good policy and what direction and campaigns make sense for the whole of the realm in this season.

It feels to me as if I've exposed those soft innards, and now they're the object of 'external poking' from people saying, 'No, these emotions aren't real enough! This calling is fake!' And this triggers all kinds of reactions in me which I am not going to get into here, as they really, really do not lead anywhere constructive. So this is me leaving, going far away, and getting out of that discussion.

:eek:uch: I don't see anyone meaning to poke your exposed innards or doubting the reality of your lifelong calling. Something is getting lost in translation but that is your issue to pursue in most private relationship to the Yi, not to us old war horses making sense only occasionally in special contexts.

As a male, I can only cringe when a woman states--what I mean is so evident in what I have said or done before and if you don't understand you just...

It never works out well for anyone at that point... never... and being blamed for anyone else's inner pain is never any fun either. Each of us needs to poke our own soft innards in our own private way. Objective results are just weird all around...

When I ask the Yi what is needed now in this situation: I get... hexagram 14.5,6 >> 43 or True Gold (goaled)>> Overwhelming by the transition to the Next expressing and exhausting itself filling in the overall organization producing the timing of hex 43. By Gia-Fu's translation:

GREAT AFFLUENCE. PRIME BLISS.great affluence gentle gains the grand central position and above and below respond. It is said great affluence. It's virtue is tough and strong and elegant and brilliant. Responding to heaven with timely action therefore prime bliss.

Image:Fire above heaven Great Affluence. The master rids himself of evil and emulates goodness, follows heaven in tune with destiny.

Good luck with your inner processing. Peace.

Frank
 
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hilary

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Don't worry - no blaming is happening, hence all the 'I' statements :)rolleyes:) about personal triggers etc. Perhaps we should both blame the nasty horrid people who picked on me when I was 8? :hissy:

Meng, the raffle idea is very neat. (And the first prize, while I have no clue what it does, looks somehow fitting.) It wouldn't be hard to fill with yarrow stalks, beads, coins, books, audio, etc... . The only issue would be legality... I think there are legal/ licensing hoops to jump through before one can do such a thing. That doesn't stop me from finding 'sponsors' in other ways, though. Another good one for the idea-cornucopia.
 
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meng

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I don't know what the rules for raffles and lotteries are outside the US, but here there's no restrictions on them, other than those guidelines which are imposed by the FCC, and that only involves radio and TV.
 

fkegan

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Don't worry - no blaming is happening, hence all the 'I' statements :)rolleyes:) about personal triggers etc. Perhaps we should both blame the nasty horrid people who picked on me when I was 8? :hissy:

Hi Hilary,
The nasty horrid people who picked upon us all when we were 8 come from Central Casting in Hollywood and they grow up to have their kids picked on in Karmic revenge...

I remain unclear what your goal for IC Clarity is and how you will know it has been achieved. Do you want to generate a cash income or feel your being needed and appreciated for your service or both as an integrated package? A raffle is a hard way to achieve more than cash result...though marketed as a matter of show me you truly care buy at least X tickets I understand well--it was standard operating procedure for city workers in Chicago. A friend of mine managed a great promotion by buying a ticket when he wasn't on the schedule to HAVE to buy one.

Folks will accept any premise that you state clearly and present openly. I wanted to flag the fellow asking the date and time based oracle technique to buy some training and coaching from you, though I didn't find a simple click for him get help, just told him to click Reading tab and contact you. [http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=5558&page=6] perhaps this fellow's thread can be an exemplar of how you wish to promote your products and services. A rather hex 4 situation, but if put upon the right path could be both a satisfying personal experience and profitable as well.

Frank
 

hilary

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I remain unclear what your goal for IC Clarity is and how you will know it has been achieved. Do you want to generate a cash income or feel your being needed and appreciated for your service or both as an integrated package?
Both, as an integrated package. :)
In other words, not a cash income just from doing any old thing to make money, nor yet from 'fundraising' efforts as if I were running a charity. So I'm not gripped by the raffle idea per se, or not as a regular thing... but there are other ways to get the benefits of that kind of partnership.

By the way, I don't know/use the Plum Blossom technique at all (the hexagram 4 situation is all on my side ;) ), so the forum is the best place for that poster to find information.
 

fkegan

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Sorting out sales leads and finding opportunities...

Both, as an integrated package. :)
In other words, not a cash income just from doing any old thing to make money, nor yet from 'fundraising' efforts as if I were running a charity. So I'm not gripped by the raffle idea per se, or not as a regular thing... but there are other ways to get the benefits of that kind of partnership.

By the way, I don't know/use the Plum Blossom technique at all (the hexagram 4 situation is all on my side ;) ), so the forum is the best place for that poster to find information.

Hi Hilary,
I believe you could move forward on your goals by going through what you have already here on Clarity and think about who would be looking for those products and services and coming up with a way to note or highlight that. Sort of a tour of the site for those looking for stuff and wondering where they can find their Yi needs met.

As to the Plum Blossom poster, he doesn't use that technique either, Luis explained it fully and he still couldn't do it. Then he mentioned he was asking about that technique since he didn't know how to toss coins or interpret moving lines. I went quickly over the basic oracle technique and then pointed him to Wilhelm and to you as a learning coach about the Yi oracle. Clearly, he has issues, but if he can at least know that about himself he could be a paying customer and who knows out the other side he might be a valuable success story.

Or in the alternative what sort of customer are you looking for?

Frank
 

dobro p

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Small paid membership

Meeting a desire for more and better communication and co-operation with other members.

Could include - according to demand -

  • private forum/s only visible to members
  • live phone/ webinar events
  • a wiki (to gather our interpretations, methods etc in a more useful, accessible way)
  • more private messaging and email-to-member privileges
Higher price if I make a commitment to show up for the events and in the forum, less if I don't.

I'd probably withdraw some privileges from the free membership to make the difference more worthwhile. Not sure what. Access to the complete archives, maybe? The right to include a link in your signature? To send direct email to members?

On other online forums I frequent, a livetime private forum and *way* more private messaging than Clarity nows offers is already part of the free package. Conclusion: having to pay for this would make the place rather exclusive. As for withdrawing privileges to make a paid option more attractive to members: other internet sites I frequent already allow complete access to archives, the right to include a link in one's signature, and a private email account. So if you start charging people for what other sites offer for free, people are going to draw some inevitable conclusions.

You know, I'm part of a large and thriving online community of homerecording musicians who are making music that is pretty much every bit as good sometimes as the commercially available stuff. There's an artistic revolution going on - good recorded music is out of the hands of the recording companies and is in the hands of the people. But the people aren't making money out of it. Although a few of us have made a few bucks here and there flogging our wares online, nobody's making any real money out of it. For one thing, people these days spend way more money on their ipods than they do for the music itself, and a lot of people get their music for free (file-sharing's illegal, but hey...) so they don't want to pay for it. So if I say: "Here's my music - send me some money and you can have it," pretty much everybody except friends and family are simply going to click away from my site. Why pay when you can get listenable stuff for free elsewhere? Most of my recording buddies are offering their music for free these days, simply because they want their stuff to get heard. Nobody at the amateur level (trust me on this - nobody) has figured out a reliable way to make decent money out of internet music. Wanna know how to make money out of your music? Answer: play live music and sell CDs out of a suitcase. You won't get rich, but it's a living. As for the internet...nah. And my point? Well, if it's difficult to make money out of internet MUSIC (everybody loves music, right?) then it's going to be really, really difficult to make money out of something like the Yi.

It's a nice site you've put together here, Hilary, and I like it. You also seem to be in process of educating people into the concept that they should pay for it. Why not just put it to the test for a trial period and see if it works? Charge for access to everything but the lonely hearts forum, and see if people are willing to ante up 10 or 20 pounds a year for membership. Continue to charge for special things like consultations and courses. I'd be interested to see what happens.
 

hilary

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Hm - I can see that reiterating that I won't start charging for the forums, and adding in the small print that I'll just start charging for the, um, features of the forums, could seem a bit mingy. Though there are plenty of forums out there giving paying members access to more forums, the right to a link in their signature, and such-likes.

It's a nice site you've put together here, Hilary, and I like it.
Thanks. Me, too. :)
You also seem to be in process of educating people into the concept that they should pay for it.

Excuse me a moment...

:hissy:

... thank you. Feeling much better now.

No, I'm not. That's why I'm asking about what additional services I can provide that people would consider worth buying, and why I keep on (and on) saying I don't want to charge for the forum.
 

fkegan

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That's why I'm asking about what additional services I can provide that people would consider worth buying, and why I keep on (and on) saying I don't want to charge for the forum.

Hi Hilary,

Folks have been trying to answer the questions you ask though as you note they don't have much clarity about them. At some point it becomes easier to think about how to explore the questions you have, think about how to get them into a form where others can make meaningful answers to your questions.

To say that you are absolutely clear of your questions and it is only what answers others have for you is fine---but, mere mortals will fail to come up with the answers you seek.
To get the answers you need from folks, you have to engage them in a conversation where both their answers and your questions get refined and exchanged and answered over and over again.

I have been so gauche and lawyer-trained as to actually dive into these absolutely clear questions with folks. All I can say with clarity is that the questions aren't ultimately so clear, at least not objectively and the resistance to reviewing the questions turns out to be far more important than anything else.

In the alternative. I have been trying to steer folks new to these threads into your paid products and services. I am not clear what you offer or how folks get arrangements made or how to promote your paid stuff to folks who barely know how to spell I Ching let alone have any clear notion of what they need or how you might help them to greater insights.

Cash value in a free market reality is actually a matter of relationship. Buyer demand, seller supply, marketing information and persuasion are all subjective relationships masquerading as objective values. All the things you speak of seeking are relationship issues. But putting relationship issues upon a sound, objective, businesslike paid basis takes a lot of objective clarity and mutual agreement.

Perhaps the discussion needs to refocus in more immediate and concrete terms. What makes you feel appreciated? Needed? Successful in helping another to attain learning or insight? And on the other side--what makes you feel you need to be paid to put up with?

Questions and answers evolve together, especially when one person is totally clear in their own mind and many others are unable to understand though trying hard.

Frank
 

hilary

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At some point it becomes easier to think about how to explore the questions you have, think about how to get them into a form where others can make meaningful answers to your questions.
Absolutely right. I did know when I started that 'what would you like to buy?' is a well-nigh impossible question to answer when given without suggestions. I thought I'd ask it anyway, with the gates wide open - and the results are very helpful, both from those people who answered it, and from those who answered something else in what I wrote.

There are less Dispersed ways of having this conversation, though, and that's undoubtedly where we need to go from here.
 

fallada

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Dear Hilary,

A paid membership would be fair . I just voted.
Would love a wiki.
Would love to hexagram-search in the old - I mean really old - archives.

F.
 

merrymusk

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Hello Hilary,
I have just quickly read through this thread.
I agree that a paid membership would be fair. I do not think it should be too high.

There should never be free downloads here, a small charge is sensible.

I also suggest that you find several people who would be willing to mentor the forums, and some of the particular areas which tend to stand sort of alone. Difficult but possible.
That way you would find some time to extend your expertise by holding seminars, something on the true self help line, and charging a good fee for say two hours of lecturing. There would be a good market for this surely. This sort of thing could help to promote the onlineclarity site even more. There would be enormous satisfaction in promoting the Yi itself into the everyday sphere.
I feel strongly that the Yi could be of use to many more people, but they need to know about it !!!

The other thing that should be cemented in firmly is that you personally should never never do a reading free !
Each reading you do is a valuable tool to the querant.
Each reading one does for oneself is truly a valuable tool and does not come without time and thought.

Another thought I have as a newcomer to this wonderful site is....... that you have already written "your book" here on the site and over a few months if you can free up your time a bit, and apply a good bit of work as well of course, you could get it published in book form, either as an eBook or in the "oldfashioned way"
Cheers and Best wishes
Merrymusk
 

hilary

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Hi Merrymusk!

Thank you :) Have you found your way to the survey about this? (It's in my signature.) That's the 'less dispersed' stage of the conversation.

I'm not going to charge for anything that's currently free - that leaves a bad taste in the mouth. But several people have said they'd pay something for the forum as is. So the idea is to provide a core of the forum that works better in various ways - easier for people to connect, work together on shared projects, study things in-depth, and so on. Also throwing in some of my own work to get the ball rolling.

You're completely right, I do need to reach out to people who don't know about the Yijing at all. And at some point I need to get over my complete aversion to having lots of people looking at me! (Unless I can take a sofa with me to hide behind?)
 

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