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Quieting noisy neighbors?: 9.2 -> 26

elizabeth

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Hi - I've got a serious upstairs neighbor problem, and I just moved to this new place. I will often be sound asleep and at 1:15am the banging starts, wakes me up from slumber (often dreams too), and continues until 5am. This is with my earplugs in and a pillow over my head. I do not know if there are drugs or alcohol involved upstairs, and I live alone beneath them. From the sounds of it, the upstairs people move furniture (nightly) btwn the hours of 1 and 5am, slam cabinets and windows, wear high heels (the female) on hardwood floors, or large heavy shoes (the man). The noise occurs daytime too, (I work from home), but I realize they have a right to make noise in working hours so I have let that go. However, to be roused from my sleep night after night is not acceptable. The tenants there are new. I have left two notes. The second one said if they did not quiet down "we" would call the police. (We = the imaginary family of five I wanted to think they were disturbing). It was quiet for two nights after that last note and then began again. I have tried visualization techniques, nothing works. My landlady is aware of the problem, but really isn't doing anything to help me. Part of the problem is their shoes, the other part is the kind of people I imagine them to be. They often play loud music during the daytime on weekdays, so I have decided whoever is there is 1) not employed and 2) rather young. There aren't more than 2 people up there, although the height of the noise sounded like at least 5. I went 10 days with literally no sleep, my nerves were so on edge.

I asked the Yi "what forces can i use to quiet the upstairs neighbors". (I'm willing to go the voodoo route at this point if i have to!) The Yi said Hex 9.2. -> hex 26.

I reviewed an old thread on 9.2. I gather it talks about "refining the outward appearance so as to make a good impression on some one else " or "get one's house in order just for the sake of the self." But neither really relates to this issue.

For reference: Hex 9:
The Taming Power of the Small
Has success.
Dense clouds, no rain from our western region.

The Image
The wind drives across heaven:
The image of The Taming Power of the Small.
Thus the superior man
Refines the outward aspect of his nature.

L2: He allows himself to be drawn into returning.
Good fortune.

Returning? Another note? Introducing myself? (??) Alone or with a group of people who "live with me"?

I am afraid to go upstairs ALONE bc if the noisemakers realize I live alone beneath them they wont be very inclined to shut up. I thought of getting my friend and her husband to show up with me. I have a pair of slippers and was tempted to bring those up with chocolates... I just dont know what will be effective.

Part of the problem also is I'm afraid to call the police bc between the time I phone and the time they arrive, the tenants COULD quiet down, and then it would be a case of "he said/she said". It's common for them to bang for ten minutes and be quiet for half an hour -- you almost fall back asleep -- and then bang again for another 10. But solid quiet for more than 2 hrs is rare.

Can someone help me interpret this hex?

Thanks in advance,
E.
 
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willowfox

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Hex 9.2 says to think carefully about how to deal with the problem, consider how people in a similar situation have dealt successfully with exactly the same type of problem. You will most certainly need the help of others here to quell the noise, when the time is right and you will know, then attack.

Hex 37 is about keeping your family in order, in this case the place you live is considered to be your family. So, you will have to take the offenders to task over the noise and Hex 9.2 says don't do it alone, go with like minded people, not necessarily the police but someone who is very sympathetic to your cause. Anyway some sort of discipline has to be administered.
 
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Sparhawk

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This reminds me of something Steve Marshall/Joel Biroco wrote a few years ago... Perhaps you would prefer his neighbors...:rofl:

I'm not one to complain...

Luis
 

elizabeth

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Hm. Well the police route is risky and depends on many factors to be successful. Minimizing risk, I guess I'll ask my friend to go up with me and maybe bring her son along, anyone I can find... Guess that also means waiting until there's another night of noise before climbing up there. *sigh*. The one time, I banged on the ceiling at 3am they shut up after that. But i *HATE* having to do that, and by that point, my sleep has already been interrupted.

Sparhawk - I wish i had the violin/bassist. They are at least quiet at night -- that whole story really pales in comparison. No nighttime sleep disturbances and no being roused from deep slumbers on a repeat basis for them. I say make all the noise you want daytime, no one can call the police on that. But after midnight, and until at least 7am...please... it's not fair. I can't GO somewhere else to sleep. They can GO somewhere else to make noise, drink and shoot up crystal meth, if thats what this is all about.
 

lienshan

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Hi Elisabeth

I think that hexagram 9.2 change into hexagram 37

Jacques
 

elizabeth

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Hi Lienshan/Jacques,
But...iIsn't the crucial point the changing line in the first hex?

In the reading I got hex 26 as the second hexagram...which is more pertinent here, 26 or 37?
 

elizabeth

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OOPS. It has been a while since i've been on the site. my changing line was second from the top...making it the fifth! Different reading!! SORRY...
 

lienshan

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Hi Lienshan/Jacques,
But...iIsn't the crucial point the changing line in the first hex?

In the reading I got hex 26 as the second hexagram...which is more pertinent here, 26 or 37?
Hi Elisabeth

I just had to be sure before answering. To me the bottom trigram is first, inside and about the more physical aspect
of a situation. Three strong unchanged lines. The change in the second, outside and above trigram is from the active
Wind to Stand Still, which often is read more like an obstruction than a contemplation.

To me it looks like a inauspicious answer to your question. Maybe you should consider moving to another place?

Jacques
 

getojack

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Hmm, well this is interesting. Elizabeth, did you draw the hexagram from top to bottom and read it from bottom up? Then the hexagram you actually got could have been 10.2 > 25. 10: Treading (Discriminating between high and low seems appropriate here, doesn't it, lol) Anyway, now I'm totally confused as to what your hexagram actually is.
 

molaurie

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Wow, I'm new to this, and I asked the same question regarding my noisy neighbor not too long ago, so I can relate! There's nothing I cherish more than my nice, cozy, peaceful apartment after working all day or all week. Solitude, quiet...then the guy moves in next door with his loud stereo, his music of choice--Rap, of course. Our walls are paper thin. All the way through the living room, to my bedroom and even bathroom, all I could hear was the BOOM BOOM BOOM of the bass, constantly! Pictures on my walls were even shaking! I tried to ignore it, make the best of it, put a pillow over my head, etc., to no avail. Well, i almost just went next door and yelled at him, I had worked myself into such a tizzy. Then I consulted the I Ching, how best to deal with my neighbor's noisy music. Here's what I got, and i don't have my book with me right now because I'm at work: the first hexagram was the one about "fellowship with others". Which made me think. I put myself in his shoes...as difficult as it was! Here he is, in a new home, maybe he wasn't raised to be considerate of others, maybe he is scared and the music is the only thing that soothes him, etc. The 2nd hexagram was the one which is something along the lines of spontenaity/staying in the moment(or at least, that's how I interpreted it!). So, the next time it happened, I did leave a note on his door, a very friendly-sounding one, with a touch of humor. Sure enough, when I saw him in the parking lot a couple days later, he apologized! Now, I still do hear his music from time to time, but nothing like before! It hasn't seemed to be much of a problem. Just wanted to share my similar experience!
 

elizabeth

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I used this site's online reading. It was absolutely hex 9, with the second from the TOP line changing, meaning line 5.
I will look that up and try to paste the info for line 5 tomorrow.

I just moved to this place 3 wks ago, and have moved twice in the past 6 months. Cannot afford to move again, as in this country we pay 100% agency fee for each time you move to a new place.

Molaurie, thanks for your experience. It sounds too good to be true. I have not yet met, or even seen these people. I have no idea who they are, and I'm scared to go up there alone, as I already noted... but i am willing to do whatever it takes for peace. Molaurie, you and I are cut from the same cloth!
 
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lienshan

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I have left two notes. The second one said if they did not quiet down "we" would call the police.

I asked the Yi "what forces can i use to quiet the upstairs neighbors".

Hi Elisabeth

Your noisy neighbours are unemployed and have no money. They are stuck to be at home all the time and such a life is extreme boring. They are both frustrated and making noise is their way of feeling alive. I'm not defending them but only explaining their behaviour.

The Yi Jing hexagram 9.5 answer to your question is in my opinion negative, because you simply can't force your new neighbors to change their way of living. The words "what forces..." in your question and your "call the police..." note are according to the Yi Jing answer not a succesfull way to peaceful nights.

Jacques

PS. Yes, the commentary of molaurie is very wise :)
 
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molaurie

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Hi Elisabeth

Your noisy neighbours are unemployed and have no money. They are stuck to be at home all the time and such a life is extreme boring. They are both frustrated and making noise is their way of feeling alive. I'm not defending them but only explaining their behaviour.

The Yi Jing hexagram 9.5 answer to your question is in my opinion negative, because you simply can't force your new neighbors to change their way of living. The words "what forces..." in your question and your "call the police..." note are according to the Yi Jing answer not a succesfull way to peaceful nights.

Jacques

PS. Yes, the commentary of molaurie is very wise :)


Thanks, Jacques! I don't think I've ever been called wise before, so this is a huge complement! See what happens when you start consulting the I Ching!

Elizabeth--you have my sympathies! Please let us know how this turns out.

Laurie
 

elizabeth

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My choice of words was not "how can i force my neighbors" but rather "what forces" -- in other words internal forces (inner strength? visualization? medidtation) or external forces (gathering friends, calling police, approaching alone, hiring a hit man, whatever). So I was looking for a clue from the Yi as to WHICH path to take in this case.

Lienshan if the 9.5 implies police is not a peacefulf orce then that in itself implies only peaceful means will achieve the quiet I so despearately need. Is that an accurate interpretation?
 

lienshan

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Hi Elisabeth

"The Taming Power of the Small" is put into modern danish words "Many small Streams make a Big River".

Maybe this translation is helpful to explain the answer to your question? You can't silence a big river
but you can make it less noisy by silencing one or more of the small streams.

According to James Legge: "The fifth NINE, undivided, shows its subject possessed of sincerity, and drawing others to unite with him. Rich in resources, he employs his neighbours (in the same cause with himself)." The Richard Wilhelm translation of your changing line: "If you are sincere and loyally attached, You are rich in your neighbor." The Stephen Kartcher translation (my danish translation): There's a spiritual connection with others. Use the riches of your neighbor.

Maybe the three translations compared is useful to your reading of the 5th changing line of hexagram 9?

You ask: "Is that an accurate interpretation?" My answer is, that the police can't tell people to take of their shoes
at home. It's not a question of peaceful or not, but of means corresponding to the result you are looking for.

Jacques
 

elizabeth

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Jacques (are you french by chance? or just your name?)

Thank you for the post! THis is very helpful. Definitely food for thought. Your point about the police is well taken too. PHoning them next time probably won't help and may even worsen the situation (upset/anger the neighbors).

Approaching them in person seems necessary. In thinking of small streams, the only thought I had was say I go to the door alone (or with a girlfriend) when it seems that at least one person is home upstairs and he/she answers. Repeat the request in person, no more notes. One small stream.

I assume that if I were to go up multiple times it would probably annoy them or fall on deaf ears though. I know from experience that the kind of people that are inconsiderate of neighbors will tune out polite, respectful requests after a time -- its all the same to them if other people suffer. Which is why I want to be careful in how i handle this.

The phrases "you are rich in your neighbor" and "use the riches OF your neighbor" confuse me though, as I cannot see the people upstairs as rich in any sense of the word. and I'm a neighbor to them just as they are to me...

This certainly is food for thought ...
 
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i2k7

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Just a few more notes from Karcher for what it's worth........

I thought that using your neighbour's affluence/riches could refer not to the noisy neighbours nor to you as their neighbour but to other neighbours, i.e. someone nearby - not necessarily in the same building or nearest to you, but just nearby in some way, physical or otherwise - has resources of some kind that you can draw upon. There is perhaps also an implication that your neighbour has something valuable (tangible or otherwise) that you can use in some way.

Karcher says about this line 'you are not alone', which seems very relevant to what you wrote and perhaps how you feel.

The core theme is, he says, about turning conflict into creative tension. He adds 'Inner perserverance now leads to acquiring a place where you can influence the world you live in." and "this is not the time to respond impetuously." and "Do not think of this as a lonely quest."

His text for hexagram 9 says "Make an offering and you will succeed." He counsels taking the long view and accumulating the little things that seem unimportant. He writes "The successful completion of your efforts is not far away."

His writing about the resulting/relating hexagram mentions not staying at home..... whether that reflects a solution or a wish to move or something else entirely, is something only you can know.

Hope this helps in some small way.
 

willowfox

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"I asked the Yi "what forces can i use to quiet the upstairs neighbors". The Yi said Hex 9.5. -> hex 26.

This is a new reading as the previous one was done with the wrong information.

Hex 9.5 Neighbours enrich each other. As you have not mentioned anyone else in this building then I assume that the neighbours that hex 9.5 is talking about is the ones upstairs. This line suggests that you find a way to cooperate with them in the spirit of friendship. Therefore, to do this, you have to go their apartment, alone, and explain to them that they are being noisy, give them a demonstration if they don't believe you. You have to win these people over by being nice and friendly.

Hex 26 says to go through with this idea, to influence people you have to go to them. Now is no longer the time to sit still, it is a call for action, so prepare yourself and the next time they make a noise go and politely tell them to keep it down.
 

elizabeth

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i2K7 thanks for those readings/comments. the not staying at home I can only read as "dont sit at home while they're being noisy, go up and say something". That's bc, as i've already said, moving again is not possible for me now in any way...
Neighbors = supportive friends nearby with whom i could go upstairs and appraoch them. thats my intent but i will do it on a daytime not at 3am alone.
 
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i2k7

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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure: I wouldn't wait 'til the next time they're being noisy, as willowfox has suggested. The hexagrams seem to me to instead point to a concerted drip-drip-drip effort to build a relationship, rather than attempt to solve this one particular problem.

As always in life, the context of an issue is much greater than the presenting symptom. Symptom-treating rarely works for long.

Anyway, best wishes with it....... neighbour problems can make life hell, as many/most of us know from experience.
 

lienshan

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neighbour problems can make life hell, as many/most of us know from experience.
The Yi Jing answer 9.5 change the hexagram from The Taming Power of the Small into The Taming Power of the Great. The difference in tactics between these two hexagrams is the important part of the Yi Jing answer to your question.

The Taming Power of the Great is put in short: Respect!...but what or who we respect is different to many/most of us. Some show respect to the police while others doesn't. Some show respect to elderly while others doesn't. You have to know exactly what your neighbors do respect, if you try to silence them with the Taming Power of the Great instead of the Taming Power of the Small.
 

mudpie

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I don't know about the laws of the country you live in, but here in good old US, there are laws which govern this. I once called the police about a similar situation, and he came over and explained my rights to me.

Any kind of disturbing noise between the hours of 10pm and 6am is considered to be "disturbing the peace" and you have a right to complain to the police if you need to. You don't need to prove the noise, just complain about it. They first issue a warning to the disturbing parties and if it does not stop, they can be issued a summons to appear in court. If they were to deny making noise at all, you could always tape record it.

your country must have similar laws, I would think? the line may be about mutual trust in relationships, but 9 is about clouds gathering, a storm brewing.
Insist that your neighbors share the wealth, do not permit them to take your very important right to a good nights sleep away. You could call the police and ask them what your options are. This can give you some strength to approach the neighbors and politely explain first.
 

elizabeth

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hi listener, lienshan and others.

I"m in Russia right now. I did research online and yes there are some laws, but as Lienshan pointed out, the police cannot prevent people from walking in their own home -- and probably would laugh at me if i explained the hollow thud of a 200-pound male thumping at 3am keeps me awake. Those felt pads that we have in the US to put on the bottoms of chairs -- nonexistent here. I know, I searched high and low. I'm willing to BUY these people a carpet at this point. What I really want to do is buy a Kalashnikov though...

Back to the police -- by the time I phone them, the neighbors could be quiet. It takes not even one second to stop noise, as we know. And how fast are the police here anyway? I know even in the uS it may take them half an hour or an hour to show up. I do not have many resources.

Last night: noise at 10:40, 1;15, 3, 4:20 and then 9:45am. I phoned my girlfriend who lives 3 minutes from me. She came over this morning to help me go up there. I had a box of chocolates and a pair of slippers in plastic (the free ones some hotels leave for you). We knocked. No answer. We called from the number at the building door. No answer. We rang their doorbell. No answer. They are up there. They sleep daytimes. They play at night. Translation: I never can sleep.

We plan to go back again at 8pm to talk to them. I cannot function much longer and feel physically and mentally awful. I would call the police but I'm one against many. I'm also a foreigner here, never mind that I'm gainfully employed, pay local federal taxes, pay a VERY HIGH rent rate, and its possible the people above are not paying rent at all. Given their schedule, it's clear they never work. The woman who used to live there, according to my landlady, was very old and most likely died. Whether the apartment was sold or is being sublet is not clear but either case doesnt help my situation right now. I need these people to shut up or leave. My patience is long since gone.
 

elizabeth

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ps. If they respect quiet during the daytime, I can bang on the ceiling to try to interrupt THEIR sleep. That's stooping to their level but maybe if they can't sleep daytime they'd shift to being normal and trying to sleep during the night? Instead of keeping me awake?
 

elizabeth

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little streams, drip drip?

Hi everyone,
I wanted to post an update on this thread. I went up with my girlfriend twice. The first time the upstairs neighbors were not home although I had heard them just before she came over. We rang the bell and called their apartment from the house phone downstairs: no answer.

Tonight, at 10:45pm they were playing music so I knew they were home. My friend Ira came over again. We happened to run into neighbors of the noisemakers upstairs, thereby gaining access to the front door of the noisemakers (this we would not have had otherwise, as there's one door on the stairwell and it is locked -- one needs to go through that to reach the front door of the noisy people as well as their neighbors). We asked these other people(ie neighbors of the noisemakers) if they knew or had ever seen these new tenants. No, they had not. They saw the notes we had left and said they were worried it was them - I assured them that wasn't the case, it was meant for Apt. 36 only.

We knocked loudly once, and said it was the neighbors from downstairs. The music went off. We waited five minutes, knocked again. They would not answer the door!

I'm back in my apartment now and Ira has left. She concluded that if they make noise again I should knock on the ceiling and we will go to the local police together during the day some time and ask them to leave a note on these neighbors' door. (I was awakened at 2am last night with their heavy shoe clogging and jumping -- finally i knocked on the ceiling and it got quiet but I still lost an hour of sleep from that little incident. They do react to the knocking, but why must it reach that point?? At that point i've already lost sleep, gotten agitated and have trouble relaxing again to sleep again...)

I'm not sure if any of this means that my reading was accurate.

I've also been doing visualizations, meditations and saying spells (in addition to normal prayers) to get the people to either freeze and shut up or move out altogether.

If anyone has ideas, knows of things that might work, please let me know.

Oh yeah -- had they answered the door, they'd have gotten a huge box of chocolates and a brand new pair of white slippers from me... And as I sign off at 11:45pm, they're walking around gleefully up there...clueless and annoyingly.
 

eddie7

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to elizabeth subject noisey neighbours

hello darling i am with you all the way as noone can really know what u are going through unless it happens to them ive just moved into a new house three wks ago and my ustairs neighbours have made my life a misert no one belives me.
 

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