Rather ominous advice of 24.6 > 27. Am I screwed?

[tidalwave]

Going through a tough time spiritually. Very pessimistic. I asked for advice on how to grow and adapt.

24.6 > 27

24.6 seems like a death knell. Bad luck for 10 years? I think I've already had that, honestly. At least as far as my employment is concerned. What a terribly dispiriting and ominous line. "Tough luck, you're a terrible person and you messed up, now you're really screwed." Why is that advice for someone who is already depressed and dispirited? Sometimes I hate the Yi.

27 nourishment seems to make a lot of sense. I understand that better. Is it saying to nourish what has suffered from the bad luck?

Would love some help.

 

[Liselle]

24.6 is possibly my least favorite line in the I Ching, for all the reasons you said. And I agree with you, it does seem like kicking you when you're down. Which at best seems unnecessary, and at worst seems just cruel, so...maybe that's not what Yi's doing.

Maybe this is a case where it's even more important than usual to look at the reading vis a vis the question, rather than just as general doom and gloom. You asked, "How to grow and adapt?" Maybe the reading is saying not to grow or adapt. 24 can be about renewal, about finding or being on a path. If you're asking how to adapt to the path you're on, maybe 24.6 is saying trying to do that will result in the bad 24.6 stuff - so don't. Maybe you need a whole new path.

That doesn't tell you what you should be doing instead, though. Give that some thought, and you might come up with ideas, or a new question to ask Yi. (Try not to do what I would do, though, which is hurry ask some hasty question like, "Well what then?!" That might be what you want to know, but you'll get more out of it if you think about it first, and - I would recommend - make some notes to yourself. Talk to yourself in writing, try to distill your thoughts, and then go back to Yi.)

Another possibility - was this question and reading part of a series? Had you done other readings leading up to it? If so, remember that divining is a conversation with Yi, and as part of a conversation, Yi might not be addressing "the issue" (your external problems) anymore. It might be saying something like, "This [divining] is making things worse right now; stop."

You might ask - I would - why Yi doesn't just give you the advice you asked for, instead of telling you to stop asking. Well...maybe Yi knows you're not in a frame of mind to listen productively right now? Even if you're depressed pretty much all the time, there are still better and worse moments - and a "trough" is probably not a good time to ask a deep, meaningful question. You simply wouldn't be able to take it in properly and make good use of it. There's a good chance the reading would get lost in the shuffle, and be wasted. I don't know if that's true today, but if it is, it might be better just to ask Yi how to get through this moment - something intended to help you right now, rather than a huge "how to fix my life" question.

 

[Liselle]

Oh - I see 24.1.6 > 23 was the very first reading you posted here, and your question that time was - very fittingly for 24 - about your path.

Since that reading and this one are more-or-less about the same general subject (what to do with your life), it's likely the two readings are connected. The simple repetition of 24.6 is probably significant. (I don't know how, though.)

 

[canislulu]

I had a similar reading in a similar situation and have some insight that may be helpful. You say,

Bad luck for 10 years? I think I've already had that, honestly. At least as far as my employment is concerned.

So when Yi give you 24.6 I think Yi is talking about where you have been. You have been "incapable of marching out for 10 years." Now you are at the end of that. Sometimes when the top line is changing it indicates what is leaving the situation.

And so I think lisa may be onto something when she speaks about deciding on a new path. You have likely learned a lot over the last 10 years. Now it is time to decide what is next and be resolved to nourish yourself. Any ideas about what you could do now to move out of your pessimism?

 

[tidalwave]

Thank you for your input, lisa! I am a newbie to exploring the I Ching and I appreciate a more seasoned read on it.

Another possibility - was this question and reading part of a series? Had you done other readings leading up to it?

I'm going to respond to your message working from the bottom up. Yes, this reading was actually clarifying some advice I got from the Tarot. I guess that tells you the state I'm in... But yes, from the Tarot, I had received "Devil + Sun" and "5 of Pentacles" and "Hanged Man" as advice. These cards all suggest giving up control, I guess. I asked the Yi for clarification about the advice. Unfortunately the advice from the Yi was really disheartening.

Maybe this is a case where it's even more important than usual to look at the reading vis a vis the question, rather than just as general doom and gloom. You asked, "How to grow and adapt?" Maybe the reading is saying not to grow or adapt. 24 can be about renewal, about finding or being on a path. If you're asking how to adapt to the path you're on, maybe 24.6 is saying trying to do that will result in the bad 24.6 stuff - so don't. Maybe you need a whole new path.

I think this is very insightful. It certainly resonates with what the tarot told me... maybe give up trying to control the situation. I was just very upset that the Yi advice seemed to be saying that I was a huge screw up and not a moral person or something. It really did feel like being kicked when I was down, like you said.

I will ponder the reading and write about it before asking more questions :O)

 

[tidalwave]

I had a similar reading in a similar situation and have some insight that may be helpful. You say,



So when Yi give you 24.6 I think Yi is talking about where you have been. You have been "incapable of marching out for 10 years." Now you are at the end of that. Sometimes when the top line is changing it indicates what is leaving the situation.

And so I think lisa may be onto something when she speaks about deciding on a new path. You have likely learned a lot over the last 10 years. Now it is time to decide what is next and be resolved to nourish yourself. Any ideas about what you could do now to move out of your pessimism?

Wow! The people on this forum are fantastic!

I need to think about what I could do. How to nourish myself. Hmm..

I didn't realize that my first post had 24 as well. That's crazy. I guess it's significant for me.

A new path... I guess that's much more rewarding. I need to figure it out. Certainly I'm in a situation where I can change because as far as "Return" I have returned... I recently moved back to a city that I lived in 10 years ago exactly! Wow that's pretty crazy, isn't it?

I won't rush into asking more questions.

 

[Trojina]

Going through a tough time spiritually. Very pessimistic. I asked for advice on how to grow and adapt.

24.6 > 27

24.6 seems like a death knell. Bad luck for 10 years? I think I've already had that, honestly. At least as far as my employment is concerned. What a terribly dispiriting and ominous line. "Tough luck, you're a terrible person and you messed up, now you're really screwed." Why is that advice for someone who is already depressed and dispirited? Sometimes I hate the Yi.

27 nourishment seems to make a lot of sense. I understand that better. Is it saying to nourish what has suffered from the bad luck?

Would love some help.

This line is telling you not to imagine you can start over with the subject of the question. You need to go on with what you are doing rather than try to attempt to recapture anything you've lost.

So it doesn't mean any of what you've said, you need better books. I mean it might say those things in some circumstances but it's an extreme statement but in actuality all it's saying is you can't hope to repair something. That is not always the end of the world, it can simply be useful advice. So to grow and adapt don't try to recoup what you feel you have lost just get on with things as they are now.

I don't agree this means the ten years has just passed..This line is a warning basically about trying to recapture that which you cannot get back. You may feel that's pessimistic but it also is useful to let you know where you are.


If this was about a car repair it would say 'don't bother repairing this....' which implies you need to get a new car. So don't chase up things to rejuvenate them, because then, if you do it just brings further calamity. So if I spent lots of money on reviving a car that was not really ever going to come to life again I'd have the further calamity of more car troubles and I might end up spending even more money on it. or it might be a danger. See what I mean....this is only a warning not to try to revive things that are passed because it will get you in further hot water.

 

[tidalwave]

Hi Trojina,

I don't know that I'm trying to repair anything in particular, just my spirits. I lost my mom last month and I moved to a new (but familiar) city a few months ago and am still jobless. I just feel dispirited and disheartened. It's winter and dark all of the time. I feel socially isolated. I just want something to believe in, maybe I just want to believe in myself!

The quote I wrote was just me paraphrasing what I've read in an extreme way. But which books would you recommend? I'd love to grow my selection. I have one by Brian Walker Browne and the other is by Richard Wilhelm.

I think your read is similar to lisa's in the sense that it says to find a different path.

 

[canislulu]

Tidalwave,

No wonder you are depressed. You are grieving. I am so very sorry for your loss. Losing a mother is a big thing. I think you are on the right track wanting to believe in yourself. In a way, that is what hexagram 24 is about. It is about "returning to yourself".

Lise (at www.yijing.nl) says of 24.6 "One feels the right Way deep down inside, in one's bones." 24.6 is a warning not to go against your "inner knowing", i.e., not to let outside influences get in the way of that knowing. For me, my 10 years of misfortune came from looking outside myself for answers instead of trusting my inner knowing. I knew when I received 24.6 a few months ago that is was warning me not to continue to do this, but to trust my inner knowing. And I trust my "knowing" that the 10 years has passed.

And so you have received a number of different opinions here. Two are contrasting. Lisa says to "find a new path." Trojina says to "go on with what you are doing". Perhaps both are true in different ways or aspects of your situation. 24.6 is sometimes a warning as Trojina says, about not trying to recapture something that is lost. But I don't think it is always about that. I received it once years ago when it was not about something that I had lost and was trying to recapture. It was about failing to follow through with a job application --- and "missing the return" to work to a job I was excited about --- in part because people had told me, "You don't want to do that."

I agree with Trojina that the line is not telling you that you screwed up.

On the contrary, it is telling you that you know what is right in your bones and it is warning you not to doubt what you know.

Be gentle with yourself during this time of grieving. Your mother will always be a part of you --- in your bones. I believe that now she is an "ancestral spirit" that can help you on your path.

 

[Liselle]

It's winter and dark all of the time.

24 also mentions that. The Image section:

'Thunder dwelling in the centre of the earth.
Returning.
The ancient kings closed the borders at winter solstice.
Itinerant merchants did not travel,
The prince did not tour the regions.'

That's from Hilary Barrett's book, which is one I'd highly recommend. (In case you don't already know, Hilary is the owner of this website.)

You got a moving line, though, not an unchanging reading, so I'm not saying Yi's advice to you was "burrow in until spring."

Still...if a "winter mood" is a noticeable part of the trouble you're having...

~ thinks ~

...I wonder if - maybe - because that's the Image, but 24.6 is the moving line, and moving lines take precedence in readings - it's saying if you give in to winter doldrums you'll miss an opportunity?

I have no idea whether you are giving in to winter doldrums - and I don't know if that's a valid way to combine parts of the text...? uch:

 

[Liselle]

24.6 is sometimes a warning as Trojina says, about not trying to recapture something that is lost. But I don't think it is always about that. I received it once years ago when it was not about something that I had lost and was trying to recapture. It was about failing to follow through with a job application --- and "missing the return" to work to a job I was excited about --- in part because people had told me, "You don't want to do that."

Great example, Jumpingmouse (well, for us...not for you, unfortunately ).

 

[tidalwave]

Thank you warmly, jumpingmouse. I think what you're saying about knowing in my bones is true, insofar as I think I know the Nourishment 27 part. I can't get over the fact that I just Returned (24) to the a city that I left, perhaps at my peril, 10 years ago. I feel silly for not putting two and two together earlier, but I think 24.6 may refer to that return. I squandered a lot of advantages and opportunities when I left 10 years ago, something which I never was able to recreate. I think Nourishment could refer to the obvious fact that I am not focusing on my health and wellbeing right now (I'm fine during the day but at night the melancholy sets in and it's difficult to resist wine, nor do I exercise nor leave the house much, etc etc). I think Nourishment could also refer to doing things that actually nourish the more mature person that I am now, still taken with accoutrements and surface level pleasures but ultimately much deeper and more thoughtful. I guess I know that I need to keep on living and should not lose my footing to despair.

 

[tidalwave]

lisa, thanks for reminding me about Hilary's book! I will check it out.

Am I giving into winter doldrums? Probably a little bit. It isn't very cold but the lack of light means that I rarely want to leave the house, which I know is not the wisest decision.

 

[Trojina]

Hi Trojina,

I don't know that I'm trying to repair anything in particular, just my spirits. I lost my mom last month and I moved to a new (but familiar) city a few months ago and am still jobless. I just feel dispirited and disheartened. It's winter and dark all of the time. I feel socially isolated. I just want something to believe in, maybe I just want to believe in myself!

The quote I wrote was just me paraphrasing what I've read in an extreme way. But which books would you recommend? I'd love to grow my selection. I have one by Brian Walker Browne and the other is by Richard Wilhelm.

I think your read is similar to lisa's in the sense that it says to find a different path.

In this thread
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?21759-Is-this-marriage-auspicious-18-6-gt-46 you said at the very end you were the woman in the marriage the concern was about. I wondered if trying to start again in this new/old city is what 24.6 refers to ? I don't know but I particularly remember that thread because we thought it was about another woman's marriage but it was yours so where you are and the marriage you are in/not in, must be a big factor here.

It is more or less impossible he to be really specific about what 24.6 is here without being in your shoes. You are trying to recapture something and it doesn't work. I don't know what that might be though. You moved to a new city to get a new job so you are trying to go on in a certain direction and Yi appears to be advising against you trying to reinstate former conditions in your life. But I can't tell in what particular former conditions these might be ?

I think Lisa linked to Hilary's book in her post, that's the one I'd recommend. The commentaries are at least sane. Brian Browne Walker's book is merely a condensed version of Carol Anthony who has a very particular kind of stance on Yi and interprets everything in terms of dealing with 'the ego'. It's okay to look at now and then but not a good one to base all your interpretations on.


You said

... I recently moved back to a city that I lived in 10 years ago exactly! Wow that's pretty crazy, isn't it?

....and do you have to stay there if things don't work ? I don't think this line says 'keep on trying to make this work', in fact it says the very opposite....unless you take it as 'go on with current conditions rather than chase after something to recapture a past life style'.

But I've no idea what the 24.6 refers to, but you might. I was wondering if this city is somewhere you very much want to stay ? Were things better in terms of jobs in your previous location ?

Actually did you leave your husband to start again without him ? There were differing views on that thread and I'm now wondering if you left him and that's why you are in the new city and socially isolated ? If so I'd think the advice would be to go back ! But I don't know all the facts, so it's hard to say, but the situation in the that thread must be impacting on your current situation ?

 

[tidalwave]

In this thread
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?21759-Is-this-marriage-auspicious-18-6-gt-46 you said at the very end you were the woman in the marriage the concern was about. I wondered if trying to start again in this new/old city is what 24.6 refers to ? You are trying to recapture something and it doesn't work. I don't know what that might be though. You moved to a new city to get a new job so you are trying to go on in a certain direction and Yi appears to be advising against you trying to reinstate former conditions in your life. But I can't tell in what particular former conditions these might be ?

So I moved back to a city that I lived in 10 years ago and where I am from originally, and I am still married and my husband is here with me. He is actually doing better than I am at making progress with his career! As far as reinstating former conditions... I mean, I guess that would just be trying to reinstate an upward trajectory as far as career and finances, because that's what I think I had 10 years ago. I did move back here firstly because it's my home and where I feel most comfortable, something which LiSe's interpretation of 24 seems to resonate with. I also thought that there was much more opportunity here, so whether I continued the old career or started something new, I would have more options.

I think Lisa linked to Hilary's book in her post, that's the one I'd recommend. The commentaries are at least sane. Brian Browne Walker's book is merely a condensed version of Carol Anthony who has a very particular kind of stance on Yi and interprets everything in terms of dealing with 'the ego'. It's okay to look at now and then but not a good one to base all your interpretations on.

That's good to know, thanks.

I was wondering if this city is somewhere you very much want to stay ? Were things better in terms of jobs in your previous location ? But I don't know all the facts, so it's hard to say, but the situation in the that thread must be impacting on your current situation ?

Yes, this current city is where I want to stay. My family lives 30 minutes away, in the town that I went to grade school. I also like the diversity and the attitude here. It's where I feel most at home. There are also lots of opportunities. One can make things happen here. There's a lot of glamor as well. There's nowhere else I'd rather be. As far as my husband and those issues, I was stressing about money, wondering what his prospects were as far as career. I left this city 10 years ago first to live with my parents (to get a post-baccalaureate degree) and then to live with him, my then-boyfriend, in a much smaller city. Before I left this big city, I had a brief but lively career, but it all went downhill the minute I left, in retrospect. I basically made a lot of stupid decisions about career back then, thinking that the opportunities I had then would always be with me, that I was just "lucky." So I'm not trying to take up where I left off, but I want to do something! That downward trajectory of the last 10 years also accounts for my anxiety regarding my marriage. Is this, too, a bad choice? Is he the reason that I've been a "failure"? I used to feel that I gave up the opportunities and advantages I had just so that I could be with him. But I've stopped blaming my husband for my circumstances. He's very loving and I realize I need to appreciate that for the gift it is. I'm also grateful that he agreed to move with me despite his trepidations and plant roots somewhere new (for him).

 

[Liselle]

in retrospect. I basically made a lot of stupid decisions about career back then, thinking that the opportunities I had then would always be with me, that I was just "lucky."

I suppose we can't rule out that 24.6 meant this. I don't know what to do when a reading could mean several different things.

 

[Trojina]

That downward trajectory of the last 10 years also accounts for my anxiety regarding my marriage. Is this, too, a bad choice? Is he the reason that I've been a "failure"?

Well there's an idea to chuck in the bin ! A person cannot be a 'failure'. A person might fail at things they try to do but that never makes a person 'a failure'. Projects fail, attempts fail, people don't. In who's terms would you be a failure anyway ? Who decides ? Thinking in these terms can only lead nowhere.

For me it's impossible to know where in your life the 24.6 applies, I think that is something you can come to know but hopefully with the help of some decent Yi books/information. Life's an ever changing journey you are on. One day Yi says 24.6 for a question on 'how to grow and adapt'. It seems to me the way to grow and adapt here is to know when to stop trying to 'make good' past errors or simply know when it's too late for some things. I can't know what that is for you but there is a positive side to this as we mentioned before. When something has passed you by it's time for another thing, another approach.

Also if your mother only died one month ago you cannot expect too much of yourself right now. It's early days, it's very recent. You've been through a recent trauma but ask how you can 'grow and adapt'. Well I think it likely you have enough on your plate right now and I'm beginning to think 24.6 might be advice to stop pushing yourself too hard because if you do you will wear yourself out. That might be the 'disaster'. Adapting and growing require wellness, but if in a sense you aren't really well yet because you are still processing your recent bereavement, and all that bring s up, then it isn't time to push out into the world too much. It might be you aren't getting jobs because you actually need a bit more time ?